Please Apply Shotgun Damage Falloff Only To The Brakk, Because I Hate That Gun. But My Own Guns Are Sacrosanct.

[413X]

The common (though certainly not unanimous) response so far to calls for implementing damage falloff on other weapons seems to be to say that Brakk users are just bitter children lashing out at other people's toys.

 

Yet before this suggestion was made, justifications for the falloff damage being applied were that "it's realistic". Yet this "realism" seemingly need not apply for any other weapon than the Brakk.

 

Most tellingly, people have even been protesting about such an implementation on other shotgun pistols: "The Broncos already suck, don't slap them around like an abusive drunk just because you're bitter over the Brakk."

 

Alternatively, the following ingenious argument, or others in the same vein are used: "Consistency never bothered you before, why not ask for Brakk to be given the same spread and crit chance as the Broncos." (Seriously? Sure. Why not request for the Soma to be given the crit chance of most other assault rifles while we're at it. And for all assault rifles to have the recoil of say, the Grakata.)

 

If you're not happy about the possibility of a fix being applied to your weapon, maybe it is because that fix is broken.

 

The above is a comment about the damage falloff mechanic. NOT a call for the Brakk to be restored to its original state without changes, or that OP weapons should not be balanced. REPEAT: THIS IS ABOUT THE DAMAGE FALLOFF MECHANIC.

Edited December 10, 2013 by 413X

[SpilockT_T]

You do know Brakk is a hand cannon sidearm?

[Stefe]

They added it so that you can't effectively take out targets that are waaaay out there (shotgun sniping). If you've been using shotguns inside their intended range, this complaint shouldn't exist.

[Seanjuju]

Brakk wasn't supposed to be a shotgun in the first place. In my mind, that was the only reason why it didn't have fall-off damage. It can't be argued that its a hand-cannon anymore. All shotguns must have fall-off damage because every weapon in each category must have the mechanics representative of that category.

 

Realism has nothing to do with warframe. There isn't a single weapon in warframe that operates realistically.

[Kaian-a-coel]

I agree with OP. Please note that I'm not calling for the Brakk to be restored (in all honesty I didn't play much since the patch, so I don't know how the Brakk feels now), but people clamoring for the Brakk to get falloff, THEN protesting against Bronco getting falloff is silly at best.

[Dovahjim]

I agree with OP. Please note that I'm not calling for the Brakk to be restored (in all honesty I didn't play much since the patch, so I don't know how the Brakk feels now), but people clamoring for the Brakk to get falloff, THEN protesting against Bronco getting falloff is silly at best.

I haven't used either gun but I am 99% sure that those are different people protesting, there are more than just a hivemind of Brakk users and non-Brakk users you know.

[Archistopheles]

You do know Brakk is a hand cannon sidearm?

 

You do know that Hand Cannons in the colloquial sense are small guns with very large single bullets, right?

[413X]

You do know Brakk is a hand cannon sidearm?

 It's called a handcannon. It's a shotgun revolver. The Taurus Raging Bull Model 500 is also called a handcannon, but it's a revolver all the same.

 

Note: shotgun revolvers, not pistols. Got my firearm terminology mixed up. My bad.

[xRufus7x]

I say remove all falloff damage from shotguns and increase their spread, but that's just me.

[Cytobel]

They added it so that you can't effectively take out targets that are waaaay out there (shotgun sniping). If you've been using shotguns inside their intended range, this complaint shouldn't exist.

That would be the case, but the Brakk was exclusive.  Much of the "QQ, nerf Brakk plz" was happening because people who never bothered to try to get it were bitter that it was really awesome.

 

As for shotgun sniping, that shouldn't ever have been an issue, but the Brakk has stupidly good base damage numbers.  If it was doing the kind of damage, say, a Lato shot does per pellet, then this wouldn't have been such a problem (at base, I mean).  Oh, and the proc and crit chances were a little bit asinine as well (at least double what they should've been).

 

Damage falloff is just a way to turn a gun into a melee weapon, and what melee weapon does damage like a Brakk?

Edited December 10, 2013 by Cytobel

[413X]

Brakk wasn't supposed to be a shotgun in the first place. In my mind, that was the only reason why it didn't have fall-off damage. It can't be argued that its a hand-cannon anymore. All shotguns must have fall-off damage because every weapon in each category must have the mechanics representative of that category.

 

Realism has nothing to do with warframe. There isn't a single weapon in warframe that operates realistically.

 

*Facepalm* Did you NOT see the boldtext where I said this is not to be a discussion about Brakk nerfing? Since you say that all shotguns must have fall-off damage, I take it you actually support the notion that it needs to happen for Bronco and Bronco Prime too? Yes? OK. Move on, this thread was NEVER directed at you then.

Edited December 10, 2013 by 413X

[Archistopheles]

I say remove all falloff damage from shotguns and increase their spread, but that's just me.

 

Which brings up the question: Can DE give the pellets a type of "curve ball" flight pattern?

 

Can we keep the spread the same at the 20m mark, but then have it spread much quicker at 30+m?

[413X]

Which brings up the question: Can DE give the pellets a type of "curve ball" flight pattern?

 

Can we keep the spread the same at the 20m mark, but then have it spread much quicker at 30+m?

 

I think it might be better to just increase the angle where they diverge. A very slight increase should only have a minor worsening up to about 10m, but its gonna get steadily worse as they travel further. Might have to tweak the beginning spread pattern and make it a little tighter as well.

 

But that might be a good thing:

 

Your reward for being man enough to charge up to that Grineer Bombard before pulling the trigger with the barrel practically jammed into its head? All pellets headshot for massive damage.

 

And if you're panicky little crybaby that shoots from cover while it's at the other end of the room? Well thanks for wallpapering the room with lead, pansy. When you're done picking up the bits of exploded you from all over the floor and getting yourself back together again, maybe you could try something like a Vektis next time. It seems more your style.

Edited December 10, 2013 by 413X

[Cytobel]

How many anti-falloff threads can fit in the head of a Dev?  If we keep this up, somebody's noggin is gonna burst...

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/145523-fixing-damage-falloff/

That link is to a topic about players coming up with ideas for fixing the falloff mechanic (or removing it altogether).  I really appreciate hearing thoughts about what can happen to repair/remove falloff.  Specifically, if someone comes up with an amazing fix for the issue, let me know!  At this point I'm just looking for a few answers...

[413X]

How many anti-falloff threads can fit in the head of a Dev?  If we keep this up, somebody's noggin is gonna burst...

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/145523-fixing-damage-falloff/

That link is to a topic about players coming up with ideas for fixing the falloff mechanic (or removing it altogether).  I really appreciate hearing thoughts about what can happen to repair/remove falloff.  Specifically, if someone comes up with an amazing fix for the issue, let me know!  At this point I'm just looking for a few answers...

 

I understand your feeling, but to be honest this thread was meant more to address a certain kind of "response" that always seems to crop up in discussions about damage falloff right now, where people immediately say "You just hate damage falloff because it was applied to the Brakk" and then hypocritically object to the idea it might be applied to other weapons.

 

I do read that thread you linked and I think it is interesting, but this one was intended more to highlight the silliness of certain responses to the issue and perhaps to cut down on the number of times they get trotted out again and again without furthering the discussion in any helpful way. It's probably a vain hope, but still, I felt I had to try.

Edited December 10, 2013 by 413X

[SFkenny]

Considering we had to power through 100 invasion missions just to get the damn Brakk, I don't see why it deserves to be nerfed. We earned the gun, we should be able to reap the benefits for our perseverance. Honestly, doing all of those missions that week while balancing the rest of my life was pretty exhausting. Yes, gunplay needs balancing, but the Brakk was supposed to be a reward. Having it nerfed so soon somewhat undermines the work done to get it, right?

[Cytobel]

I do read that thread you linked and I think it is interesting, but this one was intended more to highlight the silliness of certain responses to the issue and perhaps to cut down on the number of times they get trotted out again and again without furthering the discussion in any helpful way. It's probably a vain hope, but still, I felt I had to try.

This is the Internet.  We post ideas and hope for change based off of that.  How much more silly can we get? 

[lautalocos]

I haven't used either gun but I am 99% sure that those are different people protesting, there are more than just a hivemind of Brakk users and non-Brakk users you know.

wait, i thought the brakk and non-brakk users where like the infestation....wait, someone is knocking at my door...

 

JOIN THE HIVEMIND, BE REBORN, USE THE BRAKK.

Edited December 11, 2013 by lautalocos

[Kagumin]

Sure, let's make a shotgun secondary outclass every other weapon in the game and fulfill all roles.

[413X]

Sure, let's make a shotgun secondary outclass every other weapon in the game and fulfill all roles.

 

Again, another person who fails to read the original post before replying. And I even boldtexted the part where I said this thread is not meant to be about whether or not the Brakk should be balanced, it's about the falloff damage mechanic.

 

Also, falloff damage applies to shotgun-type primary weapons as well (but only the Brakk, as far as shotgun secondaries go, at the moment ).

Edited December 11, 2013 by 413X

[fatpig84]

Removing fall off, I am game.

[Seanjuju]

Fall-Off Damage is an aspect of the shotgun category so you can't really ask for an exception. Fall-off damage isn't going anywhere so I don't understand the point of this thread.

[413X]

Fall-Off Damage is an aspect of the shotgun category so you can't really ask for an exception. Fall-off damage isn't going anywhere so I don't understand the point of this thread.

 

Then I think you should read the rest of the original post and not just the title :D

[Seanjuju]

I read it again. If DE makes rules for weapon categories then they should probably follow their own rules. Are you asking them not to follow their own rules? That makes no sense.

[413X]

I read it again. If DE makes rules for weapon categories then they should probably follow their own rules. Are you asking them not to follow their own rules? That makes no sense.

 

Hmm... let me put what i said in the post in a different way, maybe it will make more sense to you.

 

1. There are people unhappy with damage falloff. This is not to say that they don't want shotguns balanced (ie - some are advocating greatly increased spread at further distances as a preventative measure against shotgun sniping).

 

2. Proposals to have damage falloff removed/changed right now generally include many many unhelpful comments saying "You just don't like the fact that Brakk got nerfed," etc, etc, even though damage falloff as you so astutely noted is applied as a mechanic to ALL shotguns (or is supposed to, which would mean eventually Bronco and Bronco Prime too).

 

3. People getting upset about Bronco and Bronco Prime getting falloff also complain "Brakk users have a bad case of sour grapes. Their toy got broken now they want to wreck ours!" Ignoring the fact that if they think damage falloff is bad for the Bronco series maybe DE shouldn't have used that as a fix for shotgun sniping (in other words the fix to balance weapons is flawed).

 

4. I highlight the problem (and silliness) about having Brakk dragged into practically every single discussion about damage falloff, and hope that this helps people differentiate between "Brakk-nerf" protests and a discussion on whether a particular game mechanic applied to an entire weapon category is broken and needs to be fixed or removed.

 

Number 4 isn't about asking DE to make an exception for a particular weapon (which is to say, I'm not asking DE to ignore their own rules for one specific weapon), but to rethink their game mechanics for an entire category of weapons (shotguns).

Edited December 11, 2013 by 413X