What Is The "end" Game Of Warframe?

[Mythblaze]

Warframe is ridiculously fun. However, what is the point of the game? I have cleared everything. Now what? Continue to level other Warframes and weapons? I know that PvP is something people have suggested many times, but this would do the game a great justice. I would like to see gameplay available such as 4vs4 extraction, 4v4 S&D "search and destroy" and the other game modes in Warframe made into an environment in which 4vs4 would be fun.

I understand that some people will jump my bones for bringing up the topic of PvP, however it should be most definitely considered. I would like to know what is the plan for Warframe. What is the point to continue playing when you have cleared everything? This is what my friends and I have encountered playing Warframe. We all agree it is a very fun game. It just does not offer anything that we consider to be the "end game content".

[Gaiters]

Whatever it turns out to be, I hope it's nothing like the Borderlands loop. Riduculous numbers+ the same content over and over.

[Kohira]

Continue to level other Warframes and weapons

You answered your own question.

For the second one, the game is still in beta, there will obviously be end game content, maybe even a bit in the next update, just wait, they haven't even introduced any story. They know about our situation, they are working on it.

PVP will most likely never get implemented, but that won't be a problem, they have lots of ideas to make the game worth playing.

[Gamerboy1420]

Is there PvP in Warframe? (When will there be PvP? Your game is dead without PvP! I have an idea for PvP mode!)

There is no PvP mode in Warframe yet. Face-palm? Sure, but when we started building this game a year ago, we saw plenty of PvP and less PvE. Right we want to focus and do one thing well: PvE. That said we are investing in better leaderboards, clans goals, and other more 'meta' forms of competition right now.

Dude chill. were still in beta. Yea the game is great & fun overall but its not like the Devs can satisfy our needs with a snap of there fingers. Theyre working hard to bring more enjoyable content. Thts great tht you cleared everything. Now take a break and wait til update 7 comes. nothin more you can do once you reach endgame less you go farming or tryin out other weapons...

[Gamerboy1420]

You answered your own question.

For the second one, the game is still in beta, there will obviously be end game content, maybe even a bit in the next update, just wait, they haven't even introduced any story. They know about our situation, they are working on it.

PVP will most likely never get implemented, but that won't be a problem, they have lots of ideas to make the game worth playing.

Im ok if there ideas for playin dnt include PvP but cmon. at least some kind of mode where we go 1v1. nothin big but still :(

[Tarudizer]

Many WILL certainly jump on you for bringing out "PvP", and then they will link you this:

Is there PvP in Warframe? (When will there be PvP? Your game is dead without PvP! I have an idea for PvP mode!)

There is no PvP mode in Warframe yet. Face-palm? Sure, but when we started building this game a year ago, we saw plenty of PvP and less PvE. Right we want to focus and do one thing well: PvE. That said we are investing in better leaderboards, clans goals, and other more 'meta' forms of competition right now.

Which is very typical of this community. Everyone is very "either/or". That quote keeps being brought up as if PvP will never happen. Not only does it say several times in that quote, Steve has also stated in an interview not that long ago that PvP will most likely be in the game. It just won't happen for some time, is all. Never and eventually are two very different things entirely.

There is no end-game as it stands right now, though they have said that they are working towards that. Although it's not hard to speculate what it might be, I don't know what it IS going to be. Raiding? PvP? Insanely cool spacebattles?? All we know is that collecting materials and crafting items is important, and eventually there will be more things to use it on other than "just" weapons and warframes. I love this game, but what I love even more is what it can become in the future, its potential. (I have to moderate my game time right now, I fear I might burn out because of the few things to do!)

[Antique]

well pvp is offtopic and highly unlikely for the near future (acording to devs), as for endgame they said they are working on it, probably some very #*($%%@ up bosses or real hard defence missions, maybe even 8 man teams instead of 4 man for some giant fortress raids. well the near future endgame will be the scaling defence missions. otherwise the current endgame is soloing high lvl bosses and xini/outer in online mode but that is realy easy with proper mods and proper weapons, though i made it a chalenge by using low level stuff or no mods at all.

[Oktalz]

Asking about endgame now, when it is not even in focus yet is a bit far fetched. There is no endgame yet. Heck there is no middle ground yet.

This game has a good year and a half before it even gets to the solid formula of having proper pacing.

It´s good to talk about endgame, but if we were to add a scale from 0 - 100% of how far the game has come in it´s current stage I´d have to say 20-25% at best. There is so much left to do before we can even talk about endgame in a context where it would actually matter. Opinions on endgame today will most likely change by the time we even get to the place where it will actually matter.

What DE need to do now is implement all the mechanics that will move and scale well into endgame, artifacts, precepts, sentinels and so forth are a part of that.

If you haven´t seen the interview over at MMOHUT.com with DE_Steve you will see a hint at the fact that part of the endgame will be PvP in some form. DE has been very firm on the point that PvP is not a priority and I agree. You can´t start working on a PvP system untill your PvE system is actually done. But there is a small answere to your question. There will probably be PvP. DE has to recognise the fact that it is the simplest way to guarantee that players have something to do when the PvE has stagnated (you can always add more content) but PvP is the easiest mode to keep fresh with only small changes to PvE such as an addition of a new Warframe.

Peace

Edited March 11, 2013 by Oktalz

[Zeally]

Asking about endgame now, when it is not even in focus yet is a bit far fetched. There is no endgame yet. Heck there is no middle ground yet.

This game has a good year and a half before it even gets to the solid formula of having proper pacing.

It´s good to talk about endgame, but if we were to add a scale from 0 - 100% of how far the game has come in it´s current stage I´d have to say 20-25% at best. There is so much left to do before we can even talk about endgame in a context where it would actually matter. Opinions on endgame today will most likely change by the time we even get to the place where it will actually matter.

What DE need to do now is implement all the mechanics that will move and scale well into endgame, artifacts, precepts, sentinels and so forth are a part of that.

If you haven´t seen the interview over at MMOHUT.com with DE_Steve you will see a hint at the fact that part of the endgame will be PvP in some form. DE has been very firm on the point that PvP is not a priority and I agree. You can´t start working on a PvP system untill your PvE system is actually done. But there is a small answere to your question. There will probably be PvP. DE has to recognise the fact that it is the simplest way to guarantee that players have something to do when the PvE has stagnated (you can always add more content) but PvP is the easiest mode to keep fresh with only small changes to PvE such as an addition of a new Warframe.

Peace

+1 good post Oktalz

On that note: Let the game actually come out of development before we start asking them to tack on more. I'd rather have a working game with a buttload of awesome elements, than a buggy half arsed one with only a few workable things. As it stands, it looks to me like Steve and team are doing thier best to make sure we have an awesome character development system so that we can play our favorite frames the way we'd like to, and then some. As well as working on various other aspects of the PvE game, which looks to be of monumental scale. I'm hoping it is atleast, and when its done, some PvP at the end of a fleshed out, polished game is more than welcome in my mind. Until then, keep beta testing so that we can get there.

Edited March 12, 2013 by Zeally

[AXCrusnik]

Im ok if there ideas for playin dnt include PvP but cmon. at least some kind of mode where we go 1v1. nothin big but still :(

1v1 = pvp

[MJ12]

If they can keep up the "new weapons approximately every week, new tilesets/enemies/warframes every month" schedule (they've been pretty good about that) just "leveling up new cool stuff" plus the infinite scaling defense missions could be an "endgame".

Compare this to ME3 multiplayer.

ME3MP also has no endgame. You keep grinding for new sweet toys to gun guys down with. It works pretty well.

[DeadlyShadow]

Do you really think that we are gonna get thi End game in the BETA???

[G3rman]

Sometimes I want PvP just so I can show these people why its a terrible fit with the current Warframe. Build a warframe that is just nasty in combat, it isn't even fair.

Edited March 12, 2013 by G3rman

[DolgVlaPet]

PVP would be nice, other thing is... PVP modes. What do you think would be better? Classic arena? Team on team? Last man standing? Or PVP-PVE symbiosis, where you can PVP and the rule is: first one to complete the objective wins..?

[Kohira]

PVP right now would be awful with how unbalanced the warframes are, I actually don't even know how PVP is going to work since most skills are aimed towards PVE, PVP would be a an awkward experience with the current skills.. I'd rather not have any PVP, but I trust the devs, I'm sure they won't disappoint, we just have to wait and see.

[Emolition]

I take any end game as long as its not pvp why I love this game no pvp in it that make the designers focus all on that and never do much with the pve=)

[Mythblaze]

Sometimes I want PvP just so I can show these people why its a terrible fit with the current Warframe. Build a warframe that is just nasty in combat, it isn't even fair.

My only concern is warframe ultamates that have the redicilous overpowered range. Other such abilities such as Excalaber slash dash and Frost freeze are great abilities for PvP.

@DeadlyShadow - Also, to not release the end game content for the beta in my opion would be a horrable choice. This is the time to test it and gather feedback from the people who honestly care to provide it.

[Nokturnel]

Currently the end-game is lacking, what should be set up is raid bosses and just more challenging bosses over all that have a loot table setup to encourage doing it multiple times, but not making it impossible to get what you need. You can use bosses from regular MMORPGs as reference to a good boss fight, yes you can aim in Warframe and use melee combat so it kind of inhibits your design if you're trying to completely copy a boss from let's say World of Warcraft, since it's the most popular MMO, but you can still take things from those genres in order to design a good boss.

-Area denial abilities,

-Having to tank the boss (And not just exploiting bad pathing)

-The need for a healer

-Having to switch targets throughout the fight,

-Having to use Crowd Control abilities

-Multiple Roles required by the group

-Situational Awareness

Then add in design elements that first person shooters utilize and Warframe utilizes.

-Having to hack a terminal for whatever reason during a boss fight

-Have to target a specific body part or location for maximum damage

-The use of movement abilities to avoid dangerous situations and get to places normally impossible to get to

What's lacking right now is just really good and challenging boss design as well as the rewards for killing such a boss. I hope they get around to creating a more interesting end-game.

As easy as The Jackle is to kill, he's one of the few bosses who utilizes a decent strategy required to kill him, though the fact that he's so easily stun locked is a problem. (Which is actually a problem with lots of bosses)

The loot from bosses shouldn't just be mats and Warframe blueprints but extend to only getting certain mods from certain bosses (or whatever is replacing mods in Update 7) Or at least bosses having a much higher droprate to drop high quality mods (or whatever)

Farming Xini/OuterTerm for hours on end for mods shouldn't be the end game, challenging boss fights and more strategy than just pressing "4" each time a wave gets to a cyropod, should be the end game.

And could we get a boss that just stands still please? There's many bosses in WoW where they're litterally rooted in place, you can make a boss challenging without requiring him to move around. That way you don't have to worry about bad pathing or people exploiting the pathing. Could be as simple as making a boss a computer terminal who went out of control and activates turrets around the room to fire at you and causes environmental hazards and summons minions. (For a Sci-Fi feel look at good boss designs from The Secret World)

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Edited March 12, 2013 by Nokturnel

[Kohira]

-Area denial abilities,

Yes, in order to stop players from spamming their skills.... NOT. It's not enough that you can use your skills maybe 3-4 times (which never do much really) and than you are out energy, lets have area denial abilities.

-Having to tank the boss (And not just exploiting bad pathing)

-The need for a healer

This could actually make the tanks usefull. Yeah... Actually no. Don't forget that in Warframe there is solo play, tanking and healing? What do you do if you can't find a trinity or a rhino or a frost? Don't feel like having to search for tanks and healers. Having things like this would bring the same problem mmorpgs have; you depending on other people.

But wait! This is Warframe, it's great for what it is and for the potential it has to become something different, something new and good. I don't want the same type of gameplay as in mmorpgs. I'm tired of the same old tank & healer & dps setup. It's Warframe not a damn mmorpg.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't have challenging and awesome bosses, but how about we have a new setup for boss fighting? A new type of gameplay, bosses specially created for Warframe. There are so many mmorpgs, why would anyone want to change Warframe into an mmorpg?

Those multiples roles required by the group can be things different than tank/healer/dps. One could have the job of lowering the shields of the boss, while another shoots a part that disables one type of attack that the boss uses, another has the role of depleting it's life, another gets rid of the ads and so on. There can be lots of awesome and challenging strategies that don't include the tank/healer/dps setup.

I seriously hope it won't become just another mmorpg, up til now the game has a lot of original/different stuff that makes it great.

Edited March 12, 2013 by Kohira

[Nokturnel]

^

While I understand it's a boring old formula, there is currently no endgame, No challenge what-so-ever. It's kind of a joke.

Until someone can magically come up with a better idea for end-game PVE content that isn't $&*&*#(%&ly easy or boring, the tank/healer/dps set up works as well as all the examples of good boss fights I gave.

As far as me mentioning the need to Tank and heal for a boss...

Why have tanky Warframes like Rhino and Frost if they're not being utilized? Why have a healer/support frames like Trinity/Mag if it's not being utilized? I didn't design the classes, but if you're going to try to give them roles allow them to fulfil those roles.

Like seriously if during a boss fight your just going to give someone a target to shoot and a health bar to drain the only 2 Warframes you'd need is Excal for his Ult and Mag for her Bullet Attractor (And Trinity soley for energy regen not healing).There'd be no reason to even have tank or healer frames when the only thing you need to do is Max DPS.

Oh yea and by Area Denial abilities I mean like certain areas of the fight that become dangerous if you stay in them. Meaning you have to actually dodge stuff. This already exists for Jackel with the bombs he tosses out in a semi-circle infront of him. Omg you mean ninjas should be dodging stuff? (That's just crazy talk!)

But bad ability design is like Lech Kril's icewave, it's almost impossible to predict when it's about to go off and it's pretty hard to dodge, but getting hit by it isn't even that threatening. There should be more warning before it goes off to give the player time to react and the icewave itself should be devastating (like Jackel's bombs)

Another example of bad ability design. The missiles on Hyena, they can actually travel through certain boxes and pillars aka solid objects.

And yes, there's solo play, but there could be bosses that are soloable and bosses that OMG require teamwork. Not like I'm saying the bosses should require more than 4 people. If you're so anti-social that you can't find 3 other good people to kill a boss with you really need to get out more. The bosses that aren't could just have a higher chance of dropping better loot. Meaning you won't get worse loot doing a boss solo but you'll get the same quality loot more often as a team. It's all about good design. They already do reward you more when you play with others instead of solo, this would just extend it to bosses as well.

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Edited March 12, 2013 by Nokturnel

[Kohira]

While I understand it's a boring old formula, there is currently no endgame, No challenge what-so-ever. It's kind of a joke.

The endgame doesn't need to necesarily be this old formula that I, personally, got tired of. Unless they start giving the Warframes more skills (which would be great) I don't see how tanking or healing is going to work. They can get inspiration for bosses from lots of places, such as singleplayer games, or online games that don't use that boring setup.

If you're so anti-social that you can't find 3 other good people to kill a boss with you really need to get out more.

It's weird, you don't even know me yet you make assumptions about my social life. I'm not a constant Warframe player like you or most people are, although I wish I was I can't afford to spend much time in the game, and when I do play it's always at weird hours for small amounts of time. My contacts list is filled with people that are offline.

I'm a casual player (for now), I can't keep making friends each time people are offline, there are surprisingly lots of people who prefer to rush through levels, I don't want to play with such people, I like to take my time and explore. Have you even thought about different time zones? I seem to be antisocial because I can't befriend everyone in the game?

--

I have nothing against having to dodge attacks, it would actually make the game more interesting, just staying there and shooting constantly is boring.

Anyway, in my opinion they should work on the environments too, not only just the abilities and tactics required to kill the boss, but make the places where you are fighting the boss more interesting, they should let you interact with the environment more, maybe the tactics should be based on the environment. Open spaces like we currently have are too monotonous.

Edited March 12, 2013 by Kohira

[Nokturnel]

The endgame doesn't need to necesarily be this old formula that I, personally, got tired of. Unless they start giving the Warframes more skills (which would be great) I don't see how tanking or healing is going to work. They can get inspiration for bosses from lots of places, such as singleplayer games, or online games that don't use that boring setup.

Lol i already stated that when I said they should incorporate design elements found in first person shooter games. As far as online games that don't use that boring setup of healer/tank/dps. Name a challenging multiplayer pve game that has a class system and bosses that doesn't. (Good luck, oh BTW Borderlands is not challenging, though the tank/healer/dps setup exists in that game as well) Seems to me you're referencing some magical fairy tale game that doesn't actually exist. The only game that I can think of that comes close is Vindictus, but there's still elements of tank/healer/dps in that game as well.

Anyway, in my opinion they should work on the environments too, not only just the abilities and tactics required to kill the boss, but make the places where you are fighting the boss more interesting, they should let you interact with the environment more, maybe the tactics should be based on the environment. Open spaces like we currently have are too monotonous.

Oh definitely, boss rooms should be designed specifically for that boss so it can use environmental hazards like I already said.

As far as your inability to find people you enjoy playing with, there currently is a very low population of active players which will hopefully grow once the game ends closed beta and there's a reason to continue playing the game once you beat it (aka an end-game) Lots of players just sit around waiting for alerts to happen cause currently that's the only end-game available sadly.

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Edited March 12, 2013 by Nokturnel

[Kohira]

The only game I can think of is Guild Wars 2 (I'm talking about the pve of the game), I'm sure there other games out there, probably not many or popular, but I'm sure there are.

I don't really feel like trying to explain it since I've been playing GW2 only for a couple of months, but in case you don't know how the system works, you can read about it here http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Ozzallos/032012/22734_No-Tanks-No-Healers-No-Problem (in case you actually care, I recommend to read the 2 comments below the article too).

I only expressed my opinion about not wanting that old setup to be implemented, I came to play Warframe because It was different, I'm hoping it will stay that way, if not, I can only hope that the devs are going to make the old setup interesting.

[Nokturnel]

I played GW2, but I found it to be horrible and not very challenging at all it also lacked in player customization. GW1 was way better imo.

[CosyPigeon]

I liked Guild wars 2, but I don't want warframe to become a mmorpg, I want it to be a thrid person action game. Right now it's doing pretty well in that regard. Since it's in beta, I think they should be working more on their middle game more than their end game at the moment, if you can get through all of the middle game so fast that you are currently lamenting the lack of end game, then that suggests there needs to be more middle game. I think they should focus more on adding new and unusual enemies and scenarios that are faction specific, rather than super boss fights.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see super boss fights in the future, but in the context of this being a coop thrid person action game, not it being some WOW dungeon raid.