LightstealKnight Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 A lot of new Warframes have been added since Excalibur's abilities were last finalized. And some have come with very mobile abilities much like Excalibur's Super Jump. So let us make a comparison. Valkyr 25 energy Rip Line Vauban 50 energy Bounce Volt 25 energy Speed Nova 75 energy Worm Hole Loki 25 energy Switch Teleport Ash 25 energy Teleport Rhino 25 energy Rhino Charge Excalibur 25 energy Slash Dash Excalibur 10 energy Super Jump Excalibur's Super jump has had a lot of criticism in the past for not being very useful and as it stands it is the cheapest power to use out of all of the mobility powers. The main reason that it is not very useful is because of its required use on the ground. If the power were to be use-able from the air, it would increase dramatically in use (like valkyr's rip line) I suggest that: 1. the cost be increased to 25 energy, to make it - on par with other warframe mobility powers - Nerf 2. The ability be use-able from the air (not to limit mobility) - Buff 3. The added jump amount take into account the warframe's (base) jump height. (subtract the (base) jump height that a warframe can currently vertically jump from the ability's jump height, making the ability still get you just as high if you jump and then use it) - Nerf The result, from a ground position, is still the same height at a slightly higher cost, however, the ability has an added utility and usability in other situations and actually adds mobility and options to the player's toolkit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qqchurch Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I'd rather it not be changed. 10 energy for a simple mobility effect just for yourself without any other secondary/utility effects (i,e, damage, party-use) is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightstealKnight Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 I'd rather it not be changed. 10 energy for a simple mobility effect just for yourself without any other secondary/utility effects (i,e, damage, party-use) is fine. fine, but useless, and most players do not use it. This is a fix that makes it more useful without making it over powered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewell Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 fine, but useless, and most players do not use it. This is a fix that makes it more useful without making it over powered. Careful when you blindly state "most people" do or don't do something without any actual proof. I for one use Super Jump a lot when I play my Excalibur. Sure it's not a Rip Line or Worm Hole to get to those extremely out of reach places, but it does allow Excalibur to avoid some of the annoying climbing you have to do on many missions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikolaiLev Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I'd rather it not be changed. 10 energy for a simple mobility effect just for yourself without any other secondary/utility effects (i,e, damage, party-use) is fine. Gotta agree. I'm fine with how it is. Super Jump is frankly why I play Excalibur. However, it is considered weak, and otherwise has very little utility. I honestly wouldn't have a problem with it getting a small, innate Heavy Impact effect which stacks with heavy impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmthebigman Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 The way it should be: *Make it useable when jumping off a wall *Give it innate Heavy Impact which stacks with heavy impact mod and further increaseable by strength mods *bring it 25 energy if all above done. else if one of the above done keep at 10. Yes I use Super Jump allot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewell Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Gotta agree. I'm fine with how it is. Super Jump is frankly why I play Excalibur. However, it is considered weak, and otherwise has very little utility. I honestly wouldn't have a problem with it getting a small, innate Heavy Impact effect which stacks with heavy impact. Now that type of change to it I could get behind. Another option would be a jump attack damage/AOE buff when used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HillsAndTheSea Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 The way it should be: *Make it useable when jumping off a wall *Give it innate Heavy Impact which stacks with heavy impact mod and further increaseable by strength mods *bring it 25 energy if all above done. else if one of the above done keep at 10. Yes I use Super Jump allot! superjump is already usable while on a wall, and can be used to wall jump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightstealKnight Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 superjump is already usable while on a wall, and can be used to wall jump I get an error message when trying to use it... maybe there is a trick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmthebigman Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 superjump is already usable while on a wall, and can be used to wall jump Tell me the trick cause it wont work for me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qqchurch Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 (edited) I get an error message when trying to use it... maybe there is a trick? Tell me the trick cause it wont work for me... It seems pretty easy, Super Jump right when you're about to finish the wall-run. On another note, to expand on my earlier reply or rather, reiterate it: Super Jump is not necessarily amazing, nor is it a useless ability. It does it job, an enhancement to a simple movement skill (jumping) that can be taken to absurd levels when modded right (it can reach to 17m with Pendragon Helm, Focus and Blind Rage equipped). And for a simple effect, and only a simple effect, it's deserving enough for its 10 energy cost. Your suggestion might be sound if you had reasoned it enough. An increase cost of energy to 25 would be justifiable if there was an added effect like, to which many have already suggested, a heavy-impact effect on landing. Or maybe grant immunity to damage when 'casting'. Or augment the melee jump attack by a certain factor. The idea of Super Jump being able to be cast mid-air is pretty odd and probably broken. You could literally change directions mid-air if that was added. The suggestion of subtracting a frame's normal jump height from SJ's jump is also pretty odd, do you intend for people to jump, then use Super Jump to be able to use it at its old height? It sounds more like an unnecessary nerf than anything really useful, but I guess being able to suddenly have superior aerial mobility would compensate for a small reduction in the distance. [Editing this in: You do know that Slash Dash with a Maximized Duration build can hit up to 25m in Dash distance and can be used while in the air, right? Just pointing this out if that's what you want out of an SJ being able to be used in air.] To be honest, though, Super Jump is fine as it is. As is all of Excalibur's abilities. Would some tweaking be nice to have? Of course, but it isn't like he particularly needs any tweaking right now. Edited January 2, 2014 by qqchurch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmthebigman Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 It seems pretty easy, Super Jump right when you're about to finish the wall-run. That doesnt look like a wall-superjump to go from Wall on the right to far far to the left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archistopheles Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 (edited) Valkyr 25 energy Rip Line Vauban 50 energy Bounce Volt 25 energy Speed Nova 75 energy Worm Hole Loki 25 energy Switch Teleport Ash 25 energy Teleport Rhino 25 energy Rhino Charge Excalibur 25 energy Slash Dash Excalibur 10 energy Super Jump Of those listed, Ash's Teleport is the only ability other than Super Jump that does not have a secondary effect. If anything, Ash's teleport should only cost 10 energy. Edited January 2, 2014 by Archistopheles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HillsAndTheSea Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Of those listed, Ash's Teleport is the only ability other than Super Jump that does not have a secondary effect. If anything, Ash's teleport should only cost 10 energy. ash's teleport briefly stuns the targeted enemy That doesnt look like a wall-superjump to go from Wall on the right to far far to the left. he was clearly jumping off of the crate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archistopheles Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 ash's teleport briefly stuns the targeted enemy There we go. Excalibur's ability is the correct value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balduron04 Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 I would LOVE to be able to use super jump in mid-air. To me, that is a change that makes the game MORE fun. Anything that makes the game MORE fun, and does not break the game, or make the game less fun for other people... I think it should happen. Making Super Jump usable in the air makes it less restricted, which means more usable, meaning less frustrating. I like that. If only it cost less as a mod too, then people would use it with less of a consideration on build price, and find that it becomes an irreplaceable part of the warframe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flamed Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Super Jump + Heavy Impact is a pretty strong combo. Heavy Impact and Super jump is an instant knock down every 10 energy. It would be cool to super jump mid air, but I would rather keep super jump at 10 energy. There can also be problems if super jump in mid air is allowed. For example, spamming super jump over and over again while in the air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USIncorp Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 There are other frames that are more deserving of look-overs. Super Jump does its job and does it well, it synergizes well with Heavy Impact, it's reliable, (most of the time) and it only costs 10 energy. While the idea of using Super Jump as a double jump is interesting, the same effect can be easily replicated by Slash Dashing mid-jump. I'd rather see an overhaul for an ability like Silence rather than a redundant change for an ability that doesn't really need it. Oh, and you should not assume that most people don't use Super Jump. Some inexperienced players will not slot Radial Blind and Super Jump due to a perceived uselessness, but I believe experienced Excalibur players do see the value of Super Jump. Again, it's 5 mod slots and only 10 energy, no real reason not to at least have it slotted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S3ven0F13 Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 fine, but useless, and most players do not use it. This is a fix that makes it more useful without making it over powered. I play Excalibur just for super jump, useless only to people who dont know how to utilize it properly. Im guessing that's you. im sorry for being mean but, this suggestion makes no sense. He can jump off air? What?!?! more energy cost......What?!?!?! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightstealKnight Posted January 6, 2014 Author Share Posted January 6, 2014 (edited) Super Jump + Heavy Impact is a pretty strong combo. Heavy Impact and Super jump is an instant knock down every 10 energy. It would be cool to super jump mid air, but I would rather keep super jump at 10 energy. There can also be problems if super jump in mid air is allowed. For example, spamming super jump over and over again while in the air. 1. So does a jump attack, and it only uses stamina. 2. So limit it to 1 time per pip in mid air (3 times at max rank) and just nerf the (air) height, and boost the cost a bit to compensate Edited January 6, 2014 by Enemy1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightstealKnight Posted January 6, 2014 Author Share Posted January 6, 2014 I play Excalibur just for super jump, useless only to people who dont know how to utilize it properly. Im guessing that's you. im sorry for being mean but, this suggestion makes no sense. He can jump off air? What?!?! more energy cost......What?!?!?! lol rocket boosters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueSilkMetallic Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I use jump a lot. I do not want it changed. (nerf energy cost, or do unrealistic stuff like air jump) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronyn Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 What I have suggested multiple times is Superjump should remain 10 energy, BUT if you press the button again while in midair it causes Excalibur to slam into the ground causing a shockwave for an additional amount of energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightstealKnight Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 What I have suggested multiple times is Superjump should remain 10 energy, BUT if you press the button again while in midair it causes Excalibur to slam into the ground causing a shockwave for an additional amount of energy. Just hit the melee attack button.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyroki Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 (edited) Just hit the melee attack button.... Preferably with a heavy weapon of sorts. Granted, they really do need to speed up the jump attack animation and make it less... weird. Edited January 7, 2014 by Tyroki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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