Why The Mod System Is A Great Mod System, And A Bad Leveling System.

[CosyPigeon]

Overall I like the new mod system, it's better than the old mod system, what I don't like is that the new mod system also replaced all of the passive benefits of the tree system, there are no passive benefits for levelling up a war frame or weapon, which means if RNG does not like you and you want to go to a new area because hey, you have high level gear so why not, tough S#&$, you can't, because you haven’t been fortunate to find a shield boost mod yet.

This heavy limitation on the game play is not fun.

Possible solutions include:

1. Adding small passive bonuses to every item each time you level it up. Be it a war frame or a weapon. a level 30 war frame should not be the same as a level 1 war frame without mods.

2. Make some of the more vital mods (shield capacity and health capacity) available via quests or direct credit purchases.

3. Implement a trading system, allow players to trade mods and gear between each other.

I know allot of players really like the new mod system and are quick to defend it from any sort of criticism. I like it too, it's a great mod system and I agree that it should be kept and expanded upon, what it isn't however, is a great levelling system, currently it's a pretty dreadful levelling system, because it is entirely gear and luck based, which not only removes any sense of achievement from levelling up, but also limits progression to luck and grinding.

[Draxxon]

This is exactly how I feel. That and using fusion cores is still way too expensive.

Please note, I have not found a single shield boost and I've obtained several mods that say they are "rare".

Edited March 20, 2013 by Draxxon

[WetDogSquad]

I agree completely. I went from having 100 health and 186 shields to 75 of each without noticing. Looks like I'll have to do a lot more grinding before I can take on the Corpus again...

[AXCrusnik]

This is exactly how I feel. That and using fusion cores is still way too expensive.

Please note, I have not found a single shield boost and I've obtained several mods that say they are "rare".

I'm in exactly the same boat. I suggested a skill point system in another thread where you can choose between stats to build your frame a certain way without relying entirely on mods.

[CosyPigeon]

This is exactly how I feel. That and using fusion cores is still way too expensive.

Please note, I have not found a single shield boost and I've obtained several mods that say they are "rare".

Same here unfortunately :(

[EclecticDragon]

I agree with you on this there should be small tree of stat up leveling. I also think that Orokin items should rather then double your mod points they should only be around a third

[kiwicanfly]

+1

[Arlayn]

I was very much down on the fact my level 30 excalibur had 100 energy... 100 ENERGY!!! My Slash demands more energy for more spamming when solo! Seriously though like every level should give us bonus stats like in other games they just passively add more stats as you level. Although it would be cool if the way we play the warframe will cause it to passively increase certain stats each level up. Now that I would love.

[LoliLoveFart]

Oh man i was playing with a bunch of friends and we all said the same thing. Glad to know we are not the only ones thinking the current mod system is fantastic, but levelling should actually help you fight stronger stuff as opposed to grinding defense missions for shield capacity mods.

[CosyPigeon]

I was very much down on the fact my level 30 excalibur had 100 energy... 100 ENERGY!!! My Slash demands more energy for more spamming when solo! Seriously though like every level should give us bonus stats like in other games they just passively add more stats as you level. Although it would be cool if the way we play the warframe will cause it to passively increase certain stats each level up. Now that I would love.

Like in the elder scrolls games? I don't think warframes have enough variable stats for that to be implemented. For example, if taking damage more often suggested that you like mixing it up in melee more, and thus result in a passive boost to sheilds over time and levels, I don't think that would be a good idea, simply because it would encourage people to grind styles of play for passive boosts. I'd rather they just had specific passive bonuses that where specific to each warframe that you got everytime you level up.

[ahmadjavedaj]

ok after playing the new mod 2.0 and update 7 I have a couple of thoughts. I have played the new game quite a fair bit now probably not as much as I could have but still enough to have my mind made up about the new system.

I don't hate the new system, in fact I love the new system and the customizability of the new system is amazing. But there are a lot of things that I don't think that the new system does well. The first is the lack of defensive mods that are getting dropped by enemies. I have only found 2 defensive mods dropped so far the vitality and other one is shield recharge. I have found no armor and no shield capactiy. Without getting tanky I can't get past Earth. I have struggled getting past it.

I can't make up for the lack of defense by offense just because the credits bottle neck that avenue since I get trickles of funds here and there nothing significant enough to have me progress. This is just one character by the way, I still have only managed to level up one ability to level 3 cause it costs 30k credits on average to do so.

This grind gets to be a little too much considering if I go down that route of trying to figure out whether I want to max out other warframes or not it would take me significant time to do so. I probably think that I am hamstrung by the amount of credits I get in the game to max out my offensive abilities or even defensive mods. I see little to no progress for all the time spent in the game. Yes I have finally managed to populate mod slots but some of them are woefully under powered to be useful.

The second is the mod system there is not a single tutorial that is any where that can explain what is going on most of it is trial and error one of my friends lost one mod today which he liked a lot since he wanted to fuse it with something that wound up not working at all. I get useless mods at times things like puncture I found 4 pistol puncture mods today.

In the end I guess it was some what of a soft reset for most of us since my level 30 warframes can't do anything past Venus. I don't get enough money to make use of any of the "fusion cores" that I get they are rare I will give DESteve that but at the same time without money they are wall decorations at best. I love the new enivironments and love the new warframe though I haven't used any of them. It dampens my spirit not to mention becomes extremely repeitive when the best strategy seems to be farming on lower tier planet systems. I haven't progressed past that to get any sense of the whether the money situation gets any better. I don't think so unless later missions offer 5000 credits in bonus. Thses are just my thoughts about a game that I throughly enjoyed and sank close to 100 hours in two weeks. It feels like that I am back all the way to begining and progressing like an ant. Sorry for the extremely long rambling post, but I thought I would write my impressions, hopefully something comes of it.

[Avenwing]

ok after playing the new mod 2.0 and update 7 I have a couple of thoughts. I have played the new game quite a fair bit now probably not as much as I could have but still enough to have my mind made up about the new system.

I don't hate the new system, in fact I love the new system and the customizability of the new system is amazing. But there are a lot of things that I don't think that the new system does well. The first is the lack of defensive mods that are getting dropped by enemies. I have only found 2 defensive mods dropped so far the vitality and other one is shield recharge. I have found no armor and no shield capactiy. Without getting tanky I can't get past Earth. I have struggled getting past it.

I can't make up for the lack of defense by offense just because the credits bottle neck that avenue since I get trickles of funds here and there nothing significant enough to have me progress. This is just one character by the way, I still have only managed to level up one ability to level 3 cause it costs 30k credits on average to do so.

This grind gets to be a little too much considering if I go down that route of trying to figure out whether I want to max out other warframes or not it would take me significant time to do so. I probably think that I am hamstrung by the amount of credits I get in the game to max out my offensive abilities or even defensive mods. I see little to no progress for all the time spent in the game. Yes I have finally managed to populate mod slots but some of them are woefully under powered to be useful.

The second is the mod system there is not a single tutorial that is any where that can explain what is going on most of it is trial and error one of my friends lost one mod today which he liked a lot since he wanted to fuse it with something that wound up not working at all. I get useless mods at times things like puncture I found 4 pistol puncture mods today.

In the end I guess it was some what of a soft reset for most of us since my level 30 warframes can't do anything past Venus. I don't get enough money to make use of any of the "fusion cores" that I get they are rare I will give DESteve that but at the same time without money they are wall decorations at best. I love the new enivironments and love the new warframe though I haven't used any of them. It dampens my spirit not to mention becomes extremely repeitive when the best strategy seems to be farming on lower tier planet systems. I haven't progressed past that to get any sense of the whether the money situation gets any better. I don't think so unless later missions offer 5000 credits in bonus. Thses are just my thoughts about a game that I throughly enjoyed and sank close to 100 hours in two weeks. It feels like that I am back all the way to begining and progressing like an ant. Sorry for the extremely long rambling post, but I thought I would write my impressions, hopefully something comes of it.

Credits are a major problem and so is this.

Fusion cores STILL need to have their price nerfed. I'm lucky to get 4k in a 20-30 minute mission by going through every single locker and storage container on the whole damn map.

[ACRONYNJA]

My biggest issue with this is that the way you want to play is now determined by RANDOM drops.

[XhowarangX]

My biggest issue with this is that the way you want to play is now determined by RANDOM drops.

Good Thought

[Casval_Rouge]

My biggest issue with this is that the way you want to play is now determined by RANDOM drops.

OP has the exact thought as I have, and this quote pretty much sums up the problem nicely.

What would be even better is if they bring back the old tree without mod slots and powers.

[MAL1WAN]

+1. Players can't depend on just luck to be stronger.

The weapon is fine without a "skill tree"..

But the Warframe should really have leveling bonuses. Quite hard to deal with high level enemies even with powerful weapons.

Edited March 20, 2013 by ReaverShale

[Openblue]

I agree with CosyPidgeon and his original points, leveling needs to have fixed benifits. Maybe use this to distinguish warframes from one another, some with higher shield strength, some with better energy pools, others with more stamina/armour, ect. Weapons need this too, but I feel you can just make it all generic, flat upgrade for all of that weapon type (eg. all pistols would get +1 damage, fire rate, reload rate increase on level).

The card system gives no incentive for leveling, beyond increasing mod point pool. By all means, make it so a well modded load-out is needed to run the most difficult levels, but let people be carried simply by the weight of their base gear for the first few systems at least.

I'll repeat what a lot of people are saying with that the fussion cost needs to be toned down slightly, it's hard enough finding mods that make proceeding to new areas of higher difficulty, without having to also pay through the nose to make it useful.

Acronynja makes a good point that the game is now randomised, which either means there needs to be some sort of trading system or card market (or even basic cards sold in the market like +shield capacity or +hp) to give players a reliable element to this new system. While I like the new system, I don't appreciate how hard it is to get even basic upgrades for your weapons and warframe. It wouldn't be that bad if there was benifits to leveling up, but to rely on a randomised system can leave players stuck in the starting systems for a very, very long time, which would ulitmately loose parts of the playerbase, especially the more casual players who would want to progress at a steady pace, instead of farming endlessly.

Finally, I feel that the card system leaves to much in the hands of... well, the card system. Why should my shield capactity be based on my base warframe value and whatever card I have equiped (which I can't have multiples of, by the way)? I feel the old "tree" system was better for leveling warframes and a static level-up bonus plus mod system is better for weapons, because it gives you reliablility, yet a structured uniqueness for your core piece of gear, your warframe, while also giving you steady progression plus that random element for your weapons.

[ahmadjavedaj]

i think if the thought was to prolong the game by farming and generally making it harder to hit end game then the game will not be fun. Better idea is to have races leveling races and farming races.

[Shiviandemon]

Like in the elder scrolls games? I don't think warframes have enough variable stats for that to be implemented. For example, if taking damage more often suggested that you like mixing it up in melee more, and thus result in a passive boost to sheilds over time and levels, I don't think that would be a good idea, simply because it would encourage people to grind styles of play for passive boosts. I'd rather they just had specific passive bonuses that where specific to each warframe that you got everytime you level up.

Completely agree, each warframe needs to be specificly geared towards a certain roll, -however- they definately need to make the stats adjustable to some level.... your just as easy to kill at lvl 30 as you are at lvl 1 [taking mods and such out of the equation]

Even so, when you hit rank 2 for your avatar, you run out of progression content, so the lack of end game value coming from buying new warframes DRAMATICALLY declines, because all your changing is their abilites, not their actual presence.... even the starter frames pose just as much of a threat (if not more so) than some of the late game frames.

All in all, theres no reward or value in progressing.... after the first 2 weeks, theres nothing but farming.....

[Boese]

I'm just going to agree with basically everything here, and simply add that levelling just isn't as satisfying when you don't have a new point to allocate yourself.

[Dreamwalk3r]

DEvs talked about rewarding rank-ups with mods. They just can give players health and shield mod upon obtaining rank 1 - problem solved.

[ahmadjavedaj]

I'm just going to agree with basically everything here, and simply add that levelling just isn't as satisfying when you don't have a new point to allocate yourself.

That hadn't occured to me and you have very good point :)

[Openblue]

I'm just going to agree with basically everything here, and simply add that levelling just isn't as satisfying when you don't have a new point to allocate yourself.

Boy, I do love them skinner box techniques, it's a real shame they took away all the shinies in the most recent update.

Facetious prattling aside, I find the issue is more about how leveling acts little more as a limiting cap on the mod system, than allocating shinies.

The card system isn't simply something to give your gear a bit of extra kick, it's the entire leveling and progression system rolled into a neat, little randomised package. XP is little more than a system that gates how you to spend credits and loot on leveling your character up.

Now your level-up points level up too (yo dawg, I heard you like leveling).

[CosyPigeon]

Whelp, just grinded for several hours and gotten well over 50 mods now. Still no sheild mod. You know what makes for S#&$ gameplay DE? Grinding for sheild mods so I can play the rest fo the damn game, I'm sick of it.