Nova

[DaveC]

Nova does make for broken end game.  In my opinion, class and build diversity is the BIGGEST problem hampering this game.

I totally agree with everything you posted and when every game has one or more Novas in it, I've seen many with 3 and even 4 when I tried out my Nova again recently. How boring it will be when 50% of the people play nothing but Nova...and we're not far away from that happening.

[ThePresident777]

You say easy mode is fun.

Someone else says easy mode isn't fun.

 

Accept it, and end this stupid bickering.

 

Exactly what is your point?

[ThePresident777]

Nova is OP.  No getting around it.  Anyone who claims other wise is naieve.  if you claim that it is the player making the frame OP, you are naieve. 

 

Being able to prime 20 baddies in a high level run, and spit out AMD...then watch everything burn is OP.  Especially in a defense where nova can port up to a spot where no mob can reach.  Prime everything, anti matter drop and unload an ogris into that drop...everything will die.

 

Or if you are feeling crazy, bring in a nyx that will CC everything for you, and then throw up Absorb...prime everything with nova, AMD drop into that absorb...everything will die. 

 

No, if you run with a Vauban and/or a Nyx, along with trinity...Nova fills the DPS 100x better than any other warframe.  Theres no need to bring anything else.  

 

Nova does make for broken end game.  In my opinion, class and build diversity is the BIGGEST problem hampering this game.

 

Sounds like fun to me.

 

[ThePresident777]

Nova does make for broken end game.  In my opinion, class and build diversity is the BIGGEST problem hampering this game.

 

You can't have high quality diversity if all you focus on is the warframes and weapons.  You have to have diverse environments and targets.  You have to have diverse interactions.  This is a coop, fast and fluid, action game, or so I'm told, not eve online.

Edited January 22, 2014 by ThePresident777

[Cwierz]

President, there is a button next to quote called multiquote, please use it so you can condense your posts and prevent spamming.

[Magnar21]

*sigh*....

 

Vauban has high CC abilities, and when used in a efficiency-Vortex setup, can keep enemies off the pod with hilarious results, especially in ODD. Weaknesses are ranged enemies when not using a range+power Bastille setup and Vortex framerate issues.

 

Rhino is a tanky dmg powerhouse, dealing good damage with Roar and Stomp, with Ironskin to support himself. Weakness is the lack of scaling on his ironskin at lategame, and the reduced duration/range on Roar if you go for a min-maxed Stomp/Ironskin loadout. Since Roar amplifies the damage on your weapons, and buffs your allies as well, this frame has extreme scaling power endgame.

 

Trinity has high invulnerability, but minimal offensive power if used in a Duration Blessing setup. If used in a Damage Link setup, she has to sacrifice Energy Vampire, and loses out on some of the support that way. Possibly OP in the invulnerability department, but meh and boring.

 

Frost is critical for all high level defense missions with his Snowglobe. His offensive powers are lackluster and he's a bit of a one trick pony end-game, since you really want to avoid popping your head out of that globe to gather energy, thus reducing how much you use the utility his other powers offer. I haven't tried a min-maxed build on this, but it would probably sacrifice damage in order to maximize utility of his other powers.

 

Ash I haven't potatoed or used since the corrupted mods came out, but he used to be very powerful with a Smoke Bomb + Shurikin combo. Teleport is mostly useless at high levels, and Bladestorm is cool but not impressive at actually killing things. Mostly relies on Smoke Bomb for stealth.

 

Valkyr is somewhat underappreciated, due to her ultimate's reliance on melee attacking. I haven't tried her enough in survival and endless defense, as my fingers get tired from pressing "E" so much. Can be quite fun to play, if you actually use all her powers, but more testing is needed in the effectiveness department.

 

Nyx can be rather OP with a Corrupted Chaos build, having massive amounts of enemies attacking each other, and with a short enough duration and massive range to grab entire rooms of enemies as they swarm, keeping the pod clean. She can also use her Absorb power, if her cellmates actually focus fire on it for the damage boosting abilities.

 

Oberon I haven't played much, but I think he would need a potato or some forma to really play well. His ultimate seems to be his biggest asset, and I frequently see him used in the ODD and void missions that I've done lately.

 

Nova has 3 powers that she usually runs with, Antimatter drop, Wormhole, and Molecular Prime. AMD casts a small flying orb that absorbs all damage dealt to it, and then deals 4x that damage to all enemies within the blast radius. Wormhole is a moderately high cost teleport. MP causes all enemies in the radius to receive double damage, be slowed significantly, and explode upon death.

 

 

 

There are quite a few abilities that remain viable at high level gameplay (which I would define at 50+ enemies), but most of them are used for their utility aspect. Out of all the warframes I have tried, only 4 powers scale with weapon damage: Rhino's Roar, Nyx's Absorb, and Nova's Antimatter Drop and Molecular Prime. Nova, strangely enough, has 2 of these powers. Personally, I have seen very few Nova's playing recently, and to see 2 in the same mission is like finding a frozen ice cream bar on a Texas sidewalk in August. It just doesn't happen. Since the Valkyr patch, I have had exactly one mission that had more than one Nova in it. OFC, YMMV. Personally, I feel that MP is less useful for it's explosions at high levels, since it doesn't scale very much in its own raw damage. Really, it's used for the slow and damage boosting, which brings me to AMD. This is really the bread and butter skill for me when I play T3 Survival and OD missions. I can fire a clip into this and guide it into a group of enemies. Unlike the Ogris, this isn't a fire-and-forget skill, but rather requires some skill to shoot the moving ball (granted, it's going to typically be moving away from you) and maneuver it into the enemies you want to hit. It takes even more skill if those enemies are level 70+ in a T3 survival and you are doing it without a Trinity, Oberon, or Frost.

 

If you are worried about the experience that you are losing to MP-spamming Novas, consider this. If you gain a kill using a weapon, only 50% of the exp from that kill goes to your weapon. How much faster is that Nova killing things? If they are killing stuff more than twice as fast as you can, then you are actually getting MORE experience from having them fight by your side. This is not to say that MP-spamming Novas are a problem, as they certainly are when fighting low level enemies, since they can clear entire rooms with minimal cost, effort, and risk. This could be addressed by forcing enemies hit by a MP explosion to wait 1/3 second or more before that damage is applied and exploding themselves. This would actually be far more interesting than the current room clearing system, at least at low levels. At higher level enemies (again, 50+ or more), the damage from the explosion is not very stellar.

 

All this comes from someone who's favorite frame is Nova, despite having played it very little in these past few months. I have had 6M+ on my trinity, while only 3M on my Nova. Consider that the Nova has massive amounts of AOE abilities, where the Trinity had none (this was before Link got changed to be more offensive). I do find her to have significantly greater damage power than other frames, but I do not find her gamebreaking at high level gameplay. A Vauban can have significantly greater killing power, if paired with any of the AOE weapons. A Rhino lasts significantly longer and has his Roar and Stomp to do great CC and DMG in a variety of roles. Nyx, if used offensively, requires great skill and is highly situational, but still does have high power (although she needs a little buff to Absorb, IMO).

 

I do not believe that Nova needs a significant nerf. If anything, she needs some minor tweaking to MP explosions (not damage, but rather a delay) and all other frames need to be buffed.

[DaveC]

If you are worried about the experience that you are losing to MP-spamming Novas, consider this. If you gain a kill using a weapon, only 50% of the exp from that kill goes to your weapon. How much faster is that Nova killing things? If they are killing stuff more than twice as fast as you can, then you are actually getting MORE experience from having them fight by your side. This is not to say that MP-spamming Novas are a problem, as they certainly are when fighting low level enemies, since they can clear entire rooms with minimal cost, effort, and risk. This could be addressed by forcing enemies hit by a MP explosion to wait 1/3 second or more before that damage is applied and exploding themselves. This would actually be far more interesting than the current room clearing system, at least at low levels. At higher level enemies (again, 50+ or more), the damage from the explosion is not very stellar.

 

All this comes from someone who's favorite frame is Nova,

I do not believe that Nova needs a significant nerf. If anything, she needs some minor tweaking to MP explosions (not damage, but rather a delay) and all other frames need to be buffed.

Go play some Xini defense and see what a PITA it is with a spamming Nova, far from being faster it's painfully slow to clear each wave and there is a fixed number of enemies per wave. If you are ranking a single weapon or warframe, or even both, it's painfully slow with Nova on the team.

if you play a larger map or a survival, usually the Nova is so far away spamming prime that you don't see any experience.

Why do Nova players always say all other frames need to be buffed as if this makes Nova NOT over powered??? Nova is overpowered, proved by your statement that all other frames need to be buffed....lets just fix the problem frame, Nova!

Edited January 23, 2014 by DaveC

[-CM-Syein]

Go play some Xini defense and see what a PITA it is with a spamming Nova, far from being faster it's painfully slow to clear each wave and there is a fixed number of enemies per wave. If you are ranking a single weapon or warframe, or even both, it's painfully slow with Nova on the team.

if you play a larger map or a survival, usually the Nova is so far away spamming prime that you don't see any experience.

Why do Nova players always say all other frames need to be buffed as if this makes Nova NOT over powered??? Nova is overpowered, proved by your statement that all other frames need to be buffed....lets just fix the problem frame, Nova!

Just because something is easy doesn't mean it's the right way to fix. 

It's slow with Nova? So it just inconvenience for you and you wanted to nerf the whole frame because nova make your def run slow? 

 

For survival- Nova so far away? Any players (not necessary Nova) that are far away from other teammates, exp doesn't share, why are you making it as if Nova is the only exception? 

 

Nova's m-prime is scale, likewise abilities that are scale tend to be on par with Nova, because the only way players can reach up to 1hrs survival run are scale powers, Nova is not the only frame that needed, Trinity, as well as Rhino, Vauban, Loki, their powers are scale. 

 

You only concentrated on damage and ignored other scale abilities. 

[Xhominid]

Go play some Xini defense and see what a PITA it is with a spamming Nova, far from being faster it's painfully slow to clear each wave and there is a fixed number of enemies per wave. If you are ranking a single weapon or warframe, or even both, it's painfully slow with Nova on the team.

if you play a larger map or a survival, usually the Nova is so far away spamming prime that you don't see any experience.

Why do Nova players always say all other frames need to be buffed as if this makes Nova NOT over powered??? Nova is overpowered, proved by your statement that all other frames need to be buffed....lets just fix the problem frame, Nova!

 

So she slows the enemies, which makes Timed Wave Defense missions a few seconds longer...this is honestly a big complaint for Nova? Dude...grow up.

 

Secondly, as SEIZE stated, if you are far away from any Frame that clears rooms, you wont gain any XP from it to begin with. Nova is not the exception to this.

 

And finally, you keep proving why no one listens to you AGAIN AND AGAIN! How is nerfing Nova gonna make them seem better? Answer: IT DOESN'T. How is buffing them to be able to compete with Nova a problem? Answer: It isn't.

 

You are even remotely thinking rationally and is more whining like a child that wants a certain flavor of Ice Cream when many people out and out told you Nova is only OP at Low and Mid level content just like the Friendly Neighbor Rhino, or Valkyr, or Ember spamming WoF or pretty much any good Warframe at doing what they do.

Nova is only OP at those levels and it's getting sad you can't think to see if that's true, but keep on blaming Nova, maybe your dreams will come true and all we lose is ANOTHER viable Warframe for the endgame that is pretty much already a pain in the &#! due to turning certain Warframes into one trick ponies.

[Kinjeto]

Yeah but at the same time... My 2 cents...

Nova's Anti Matter Drop takes "skill" (i.e aiming at the ball) to achieve 'the damage required. Versus Molecular Prime which is a one trick pony and doesn't take any skill at all. Skill through mechanics has been common place in games like Dark Souls and Demon Souls. Sure Warframe isn't Demon Souls but 1-trick ponies that involve just "pressing a button" to get a reaction don't get any respect either.

If the game eventually gets HUD 2.0 and the skill timers for cool downs. Then I might have a bit more retrospect for Trinity, Nyx, Volt, Ember and Banshee. Even the possibly of Saryn. Because the player needs to guage when the skills is 'finished' it's course to do the next one and the level of skill will be evened out. (We can hope for a better game playing environment) tomorrow

Just at the moment with Nova being a press the button, shoot the enemy and everything blows up. There isn't much skill in that. There is more skill in guaging with the other frames because at the moment the timer is variable and it comes on the onus back to the user to guage when the skill needs to be cast again.

At the same time if the game isn't putting and giving users the feedback they require to make informed decisions that is the developers misjudgement or if the game hasn't clearly informed, trained and educated the player about when the player needs to make the next decision or judgement.

It's like a golfer coming into a course with unlabelled clubs and not knowing when there is enough agency to use whatever club to get the job done. It is like chess player coming in and being shown all pawns and the rules haven't been set out.

The case in point: bringing the other frames more in line with their description(s) to give the user a feeling of empowerment to cast judgement and hopefully in the longrun giving users enough agency to have fun on many differing levels of variety.

Also in the long run with Damage 2.0 (It was proported to be on on "livestream" that 'Oh yes (DE) were thinking about putting the elemental damage on Warframe Skills, but we didn't.' and in some ways probably good as well, cause it does leave the potential for a bit more variety.

The same examples that has been set in previous games I've played:
-- Silk Road Online. Where the Pacheon was underpowered (saviour the grinding for the sake of grinding) and the Bicheon and Sword and Shield players were in good synchronicity. But the said company (Joymax) failed with the next 'class' update by making 

'European' world classes so overpowered that all the work on the previous installment was a waste.
-- In Perfect World (Which wasn't) where the said craze of '5 Attacks per Second' to quickly clear dungeons. (Not that I am against power gaming. But why should I, when I've invested money and time in a character have to drop my existing investment and make a new toon when it takes time and monetary effort.)
-- In Gunz The Duel (where K-Style) was given too much agency and not enough depth and complexity.
-- In (TFC) and TF2 when Soldier's rockets were so ridiculously overpowered that most of the competitive games were just Soldier and Medic and people calling it "skilled".

When designing games if the user, doesn't have enough depth (it's getting there DE -- needs more polish), choice (melee 2,0?), complexity (Well path of exile, you can't go wrong there) and in the long run 'playing for skill' (I could mention league of legends, but then repetitive ducks would come out of the woodwork) then those users that usually get discouraged. Will migrate to other products.

If balance is a unbalanced, and in this day and age of free-to-play. There are a lot of choices, and with the average eyes-to-screen attention, getting shorter every year. If you screw (I would say the F word but I'm civil and polite) the balance for more than (3 months) and 6 months and especially now we've got sites like youtube, guidescroll.com and user-made videos of end game content. Power gamer and min-maxing is going to power game.

But here is the beautiful rub.. Power gaming and players and their friends are hopefully (in this interconnected hyper attention age) going to keep their friends in the know and most importantly developers in check. There are both social aspects and power gaming aspects, but long are gone the days when developers can sit on their hands and do nothing.

Edited January 23, 2014 by Kinjeto

[DaveC]

And finally, you keep proving why no one listens to you AGAIN AND AGAIN! How is nerfing Nova gonna make them seem better? Answer: IT DOESN'T. How is buffing them to be able to compete with Nova a problem? Answer: It isn't.

 

You are even remotely thinking rationally and is more whining like a child that wants a certain flavor of Ice Cream

but keep on blaming Nova, maybe your dreams will come true and all we lose is ANOTHER viable Warframe for the endgame that is pretty much already a pain in the &#! due to turning certain Warframes into one trick ponies.

You just resort to twisted arguments and insults again, as usual....It is what I have come to expect, from the side defending Nova. There is enough strength of feeling against Nova for threads about rebalancing the frame to continually come up. This has been happening for months. not from new players, but from experienced ones......why do you think that is.

You like to respond with insults and the view that we just want to nerf everything fun.....NO. There is a problem with Nova and you simply don't want to see it.

Edited January 23, 2014 by DaveC

[Kinjeto]

Many users have even suggested minor improvements like bringing back the configuration system we had in update 4 (Hopefully DE won't do the desk out the window like DMG 2.0) -- I started in update 6 (Sorry if Im late) with caution, because of my numerous past developer incursions, where I had filled entire forums where I was seeing problems with the update time and lack of communication with the development team. (DE is on the silver brick road, not quite a platinum brick road yet. But the bricks are getting better.)

(In the long run development of Warframe (You want that retirement package and happy players and hopefully the notion of 'We gave it our best shot' in 10 years.) the eventual migeration (finding a new macguffin in the Warframe universe that creates different configurations, new areas et all).

Some users I have spoken to do see the potential of the conclave system as well. A bit more polish needed here, but from what I've heard it works for the time being. Good news about the user rating system. There is the potential for it to be included into the Conclave system and thus into the status system

@DE_Steve just a hint... Put the defense and survival top stats on star map for each planet. Don't hide them in the back under the users stats. User engagement. Plus +3. You've got a good thing going for the development as a coral reef [http://taugrim.com/2013/06/10/why-pve-content-shouldnt-be-a-coral-reef/] but a few more random tiles would be nice. Have you ever thought about the development of using difficulty in tilesets? Not just in enemies. It is a nice procedural level generator.
 

Edited January 23, 2014 by Kinjeto

[-CM-Syein]

You just resort to twisted arguments and insults again, as usual....It is what I have come to expect, from the side defending Nova. There is enough strength of feeling against Nova for threads about rebalancing the frame to continually come up. This has been happening for months. not from new players, but from experienced ones......why do you think that is.

You like to respond with insults and the view that we just want to nerf everything fun.....NO. There is a problem with Nova and you simply don't want to see it.

What you saying is "side defending nova" and "Nova lover", I'm neither, I'm stating logics here. I am an experienced one, why don't you check my profile first. As a matter of facts, experienced is parts on judging, the other is base on logics and facts and situation in which Nova is in. 

 

If you think your reasoning is logics, why can't you answer what I post in a logical manner instead of calling others: "Nova lover" and such without considered what they said?  

[kubbi]

Go play some Xini defense and see what a PITA it is with a spamming Nova, far from being faster it's painfully slow to clear each wave and there is a fixed number of enemies per wave. If you are ranking a single weapon or warframe, or even both, it's painfully slow with Nova on the team.

if you play a larger map or a survival, usually the Nova is so far away spamming prime that you don't see any experience.

Why do Nova players always say all other frames need to be buffed as if this makes Nova NOT over powered??? Nova is overpowered, proved by your statement that all other frames need to be buffed....lets just fix the problem frame, Nova!

 

How is it slower with a Nova on a team? You do know that Nova's ult does chain damage right? And double damage? And by the time you kill one enemy, Nova can clear out 10 or more. So if you are in damage range your weapon gains xp more effectively.

 

So you say with Nova things are slower. Then next up you say she's OP? Seems contradicting to me.

[Cwierz]

snipit

Perfectly reasonable train of thought, and I am inclined to agree, and do agree with certain parts. However, this hasn't taken into account how M Prime can slow enemies. This is the one thing in M Prime that is so under-discussed and under-appreciated, and is the only thing that I deem worth of straight up removal.

 

Most people don't understand how big of an impact slowing has in this game. It isn't just moving in the cardinal directions, every animation including shooting, cast animations, knockdown animation, recovery animations, length of stuns, and many more are all reduced. I have tried to tell people to get into a t3 void, round up some heavy units, stand on an ice pad, and then try to kill them and see for themselves the effect of it (especially when they themselves get CC'd by ground pounds).  

 

The other problem I have is that people are not getting how buffing the other frames should be done. It isn't about the numbers, it is about giving each ability use. However, for nerfing in this specific instance... it is about the numbers, M Prime already has a good use, and I don't suggest removing it. M Prime is the best damage ultimate in the game, for every faction. Coupled with that, there is a damage amp. Now we just have to get over her pitiful defenses... oh wait, slowdown is also a part of M Prime. If she is an offensive glass cannon, she shouldn't have things that half enemy damage output, it simply shouldn't be there. I am fine with nova being a glass cannon, as long as she actually is a glass cannon. Removal of weaknesses isn't something that should be taken so lightly.

 

The other matter that occurred to me is that every frame that we have to so far is balanced if you don't consider alternate helmets, or narrow minded/fleeting expertise, with the exception of the one warframe that was influenced directly and majorly by the design council. This alone rings bells to me( not necessarily to other people), and is in my opinion why DE is so reluctant to touch her in any way shape or form other than bug fixes. When M Prime had problems chaining due to a bug, it literally exploded on the forums, and people were out carrying pitch forks and torches. That would happen x10 if DE formally nerfed her, and I imagine thats why they refuse to take action as well.

 

As a side note to President. I understand you like explosions, but balancing does not affect your fun at all, and you seem incapable of seeing that. It isn't the absurdly high power level that makes something fun, it is the actual mechanic. If you can't see past that I don't see why you are posting feedback about balancing topics. When somebody is talking about balancing a piece of content game, you don't "screw balance, I like explosions and killing things", because that is just... dumb.

 

You are one of those people in the forums that is so opposed to balance because it ruins fun, yet you are readily able to accept the prospect of just buffing everything nonsensically  which in of itself is a form of balance (although terribly flawed). You have to realize at some point, that power is not fun, nor is balance bad. 

[Magnar21]

Perfectly reasonable train of thought, and I am inclined to agree, and do agree with certain parts. However, this hasn't taken into account how M Prime can slow enemies. This is the one thing in M Prime that is so under-discussed and under-appreciated, and is the only thing that I deem worth of straight up removal.

 

Most people don't understand how big of an impact slowing has in this game. It isn't just moving in the cardinal directions, every animation including shooting, cast animations, knockdown animation, recovery animations, length of stuns, and many more are all reduced. I have tried to tell people to get into a t3 void, round up some heavy units, stand on an ice pad, and then try to kill them and see for themselves the effect of it (especially when they themselves get CC'd by ground pounds).  

 

The other problem I have is that people are not getting how buffing the other frames should be done. It isn't about the numbers, it is about giving each ability use. However, for nerfing in this specific instance... it is about the numbers, M Prime already has a good use, and I don't suggest removing it. M Prime is the best damage ultimate in the game, for every faction. Coupled with that, there is a damage amp. Now we just have to get over her pitiful defenses... oh wait, slowdown is also a part of M Prime. If she is an offensive glass cannon, she shouldn't have things that half enemy damage output, it simply shouldn't be there. I am fine with nova being a glass cannon, as long as she actually is a glass cannon. Removal of weaknesses isn't something that should be taken so lightly.

 

The other matter that occurred to me is that every frame that we have to so far is balanced if you don't consider alternate helmets, or narrow minded/fleeting expertise, with the exception of the one warframe that was influenced directly and majorly by the design council. This alone rings bells to me( not necessarily to other people), and is in my opinion why DE is so reluctant to touch her in any way shape or form other than bug fixes. When M Prime had problems chaining due to a bug, it literally exploded on the forums, and people were out carrying pitch forks and torches. That would happen x10 if DE formally nerfed her, and I imagine thats why they refuse to take action as well.

Hrm, good counterpoints. I would have to say that I really haven't considered removing the slow effect. In the aforementioned T3S, I did rely quite heavily on the AOE slow in order to revive allies once MP stopped being instant death. If that slow was removed, I would definitely try to fit rush in my build. All the more reason to give access to more mod slots :/

 

I do think that you may be right on the design council thing. I don't know too much about balancing atm., it has been a while since I actually compared the various frames in T3S or any endless defense. Might see about going as far as I can sometime in Survival solo, and see what happens. Most likely, I'll end up relying on that slow from MP heavily once I get past a certain point. I might have to think more tactically.... But perhaps all it needs is less of a slow effect, not removal entirely.

[Xhominid]

You just resort to twisted arguments and insults again, as usual....It is what I have come to expect, from the side defending Nova. There is enough strength of feeling against Nova for threads about rebalancing the frame to continually come up. This has been happening for months. not from new players, but from experienced ones......why do you think that is.

You like to respond with insults and the view that we just want to nerf everything fun.....NO. There is a problem with Nova and you simply don't want to see it.

 

And here's the guy who keeps saying that we are "Nova Lovers" and is completely blinded by it...telling me that I'm the one tossing insults like you haven't.

 

Funny, there is no problem with Nova and that's pretty damn obvious to anyone who actually bothers to head to endgame/Nightmare missions.

[Zkorp]

Yes, try to have a nova and stay alive while you MP over the 40+ waves in ODD. then come back to tell us : Nova is OP. IN fact it's not. It's usefull and frail at the same time. But she's not "game breaking" in any way then.

 

Go nerf yourselves...

[DaveC]

2 things I want to see

1. Shared kills when warframe ultis kill enemies (this just elicits the changes in how people play) and makes new players happier

2. Not being able to recast prime until effect of previous prime has finished or all affected enemies are dead. For this to be successful the duration of prime will have to be reduced (which it should be anyway). I would think a hard 15s would be right. I would also love to see kills by the warframe ability ONLY give shared Warframe XP, in the same proportion as the shared kills. If weapon XP is wanted, stuff has to be killed with...well weapons, believe it or not.

With Molecular Prime No nerf to the bangs, no nerf to the slow no nerf to the massive debuff or the very large range . It becomes the same as the majority of other ultis (not spammable every few seconds). I know, I know saryn can spam every few seconds, but low energy pool, high cost, poor range and lacklustre damage make this unimportant on a frame that's hardly used.

Somehow, even this doesn't seem acceptable, it should be, but it's not. The players who use Nova most of the time, want to keep the frame ridiculously overpowered. I am not even suggesting Antimatter Drop be touched, which all Nova players say is the OP skill that should be Nerfed....oh no, I am only suggesting the MP be changed. We can leave AD exactly as it is...so how can it be a nerf.

Edited January 23, 2014 by DaveC

[Cwierz]

1.) And here's the guy who keeps saying that we are "Nova Lovers" and is completely blinded by it...telling me that I'm the one tossing insults like you haven't.

 

2.) Funny, there is no problem with Nova and that's pretty damn obvious to anyone who actually bothers to head to endgame/Nightmare missions.

1.) Pretty True

 

2.) I have done this so called "endgame", and played nightmare missions/alerts and have every nightmare mode mod except that really S#&$ty pistol mod. I have seen novas in all of them, and you are right. They would be balanced if M Prime did not slow the enemies.

 

I will repeat again.

 

I am fine with nova remaining as she should be, ala- a glass cannon, as long as she actually is a glass cannon. 

[ObviousLee]

You just resort to twisted arguments and insults again, as usual....It is what I have come to expect, from the side defending Nova. There is enough strength of feeling against Nova for threads about rebalancing the frame to continually come up. This has been happening for months. not from new players, but from experienced ones......why do you think that is.

You like to respond with insults and the view that we just want to nerf everything fun.....NO. There is a problem with Nova and you simply don't want to see it.

to be fair, you've never once countered any statements with anything other than "nova is op" opinions.

 

just saying.

[DaveC]

to be fair, you've never once countered any statements with anything other than "nova is op" opinions.

 

just saying.

Well you ought to go back and read through this thread, because I have on many occasions. Your picking up on the last few posts, not the extensive arguments that have been made by me and others.

[ThePresident777]

Well you ought to go back and read through this thread, because I have on many occasions. Your picking up on the last few posts, not the extensive arguments that have been made by me and others.

 

 

You claim that Nova is OP and as such ruins your weapon XP but you never account for the increased number of kills which in turn produce an increased number of respawns which in turn produce an increased number of enemies which in turn produces an increased amount of XP.

 

And, after you started calling for equal XP, you persisted in wanting to nerf Nova anyway.  Your claim that you have nothing to kill because of Nova is just utterly false.  I both play and play with Novas and I have no down time.  The waves just keep coming from all directions.  There are plenty of targets.

Edited January 24, 2014 by ThePresident777

[DaveC]

You claim that Nova is OP and as such ruins your weapon XP but you never account for the increased number of kills which in turn produce an increased number of respawns which in turn produce an increased number of enemies which in turn produces an increased amount of XP.

I've already explained this multiple times, you obviously fail to understand it...so it will do me no good to try and explain again.

[ThePresident777]

I've already explained this multiple times, you obviously fail to understand it...so it will do me no good to try and explain again.

 

LOL.