Petition To Restore Overheat To Ember

[Vargras]

Overheat is never coming back. She's a caster frame, she's not supposed to be ridiculously tanky.

 

Accept it and move on.

[Nyxcha]

And why not?

Slash Dash / Rhino Charge

90% of ults.

Freeze and Fireball.

Invisibility and Smokescreen

The game is filled with similar abilities, that are all with their unique twists on the concepts.

We even have divebomb, which is pretty much instant heavy impact.

I would suggest a parabolic arc of movement ability though. Not a jump, it involves a rapid ascent up and a rapid/boosted descent down. Probably mix it with fireblast so it has added CC at its end point.

ok that would work.

 

something DE said is they dont want similar skills, which is why i asked you that.

 

but you are right, they havent exactly held true to that.

 

plus i like what you said =)

[Nyxcha]

Overheat is never coming back. She's a caster frame, she's not supposed to be ridiculously tanky.

 

Accept it and move on.

ridiculously tanky. true

 

but she does need some survivability.

 

adding a bit of dmg res to world on fire(showing the extreme heat of the area is weakening the projectiles)

or to..hell accelerant(cause the air around her is a bit thicker)

 

i'm not saying insane dmg res like pre nerf overheat had.

 

but like 25%-50% would be nice.

keep in mind Valkyr has 80% dmg res at all times, while ember currently has like 3%

 

 

heck, if DE made it so she was as fast as nova or had as much stamina as valkyr(to show she's a hyper fireball) then that would make her more mobile.

 

more mobile= more survival.

atm she's slower than rhino(ffs)

with average stam.

 

or. maybe accelerant knocks down all enemys around her instead of stunning them. that would make the skill a good survivability skill(and worth the 50 energy.  cause atm the 1 sec stun for 50 energy isn't worth it when valkyr has a 3-5 sec stun for 5 energy)

 

 

 

 

....actually if accelerant knocked down enemies i'd say fair trade for overheat =)

ember would still be weak, but now she'd be able to get off thsoe fire skills after using accelerant.

 

 

what do you guys think? accelerant knockdown?

[LukeAura]

ok that would work.

something DE said is they dont want similar skills, which is why i asked you that.

but you are right, they havent exactly held true to that.

plus i like what you said =)

Thanks! I think it's different enough from current abilities any ways.

Nothing like a squad of chickens phoenixes rolling through the air as meteors to say, "I am Death."

The one thing I wouldn't know how well this would work with is for height changes. Depending on Arc curve and maximum height using it from a ledge might result in a major range increase. Which could be cool, but I'm not sure it would be well appreciated by people when they have to figure out that distance or end up going sailing over their desired targets head.

Edited April 3, 2014 by LukeAura

[Nyxcha]

Thanks! I think it's different enough from current abilities any ways.

Nothing like a squad of chickens phoenixes rolling through the air as meteors to say, "I am Death."

The one thing I wouldn't know how well this would work with is for height changes. Depending on Arc curve and maximum height using it from a ledge might result in a major range increase. Which could be cool, but I'm not sure it would be well appreciated by people when they have to figure out that distance or end up going sailing over their desired targets head.

hm, phoenixes...

 

ack nope. i was gonna suggest something similar to nyx's psybolts. but thats a S#&$ty skill as is, and having homing fire phoenixes would not be good. (phoenixi, phoenixes, fk what is the plural)

 

actually, a phoenix rush woudl be interesting. ember creates wings of flame and rushes in the direction you pointing.

 

but it would be different from excal and rhino, cause while those frames are stuck to the ground, ember would be able to rush straight up into the air(depending on where your camera is pointing)

 

it would probably do less dmg than excal and rhino...or...

 

ok let me put it all together(this crazy idea)

 

Phoenix rush(replacement for accelerant), Ember rushes forward to where the camera is pointing. all enemys she passes are momentarily stunned/knockeddown(idk which would be more balanced)  and all have a fire proc put on them.

the skill doesn't do dmg, but it leaves a fire proc, gets ember in a position to use her fire skills, and keeps the enemys from instantly killing her.

 

as you rank the skill up that increases the range(to the sides) that the fire proc is put on enemys. it doesnt increase the range of the rush, it just increases the distance the fire proc is put on all enemys to the sides of her rush (along with increases the fire proc %)

 

-it wouldnt make excal or rhino's skill useless, as it doesnt dmg direct dmg to enemies. and it costs 50 energy instead of 25.

[Makemap]

They can change Accelerant/Overheat to some sort of flame wall which distorts enemies view from firing at you accurately as you move, combinied with World on Fire this should allow you to get up close and personel without being fired upon until your close enough. "Fireball" needs a knockdown effect to clear mobs blocking.

[Vargras]

ridiculously tanky. true

 

but she does need some survivability.

 

adding a bit of dmg res to world on fire(showing the extreme heat of the area is weakening the projectiles)

or to..hell accelerant(cause the air around her is a bit thicker)

 

i'm not saying insane dmg res like pre nerf overheat had.

 

but like 25%-50% would be nice.

keep in mind Valkyr has 80% dmg res at all times, while ember currently has like 3%

 

 

heck, if DE made it so she was as fast as nova or had as much stamina as valkyr(to show she's a hyper fireball) then that would make her more mobile.

 

more mobile= more survival.

atm she's slower than rhino(ffs)

with average stam.

 

or. maybe accelerant knocks down all enemys around her instead of stunning them. that would make the skill a good survivability skill(and worth the 50 energy.  cause atm the 1 sec stun for 50 energy isn't worth it when valkyr has a 3-5 sec stun for 5 energy)

 

 

 

 

....actually if accelerant knocked down enemies i'd say fair trade for overheat =)

ember would still be weak, but now she'd be able to get off thsoe fire skills after using accelerant.

 

 

what do you guys think? accelerant knockdown?

She's a caster frame. Casters are squishy. That's how they are, regardless of what game is even played. What even warrants Ember getting damage reduction? Why her and not Nyx, Volt, Nekros, or any other caster frame?

 

Not only that, but using Valkyr as the reason for "well she has it so why can't this" is flawed. Valkyr is a melee frame who also has the lowest shields in the entire game. She needs the massive armor or she simply falls over dead.

Edited April 3, 2014 by Vargras

[Nyxcha]

She's a caster frame. Casters are squishy. That's how they are, regardless of what game is even played. What even warrants Ember getting damage reduction? Why her and not Nyx, Volt, Nekros, or any other caster frame?

 

Not only that, but using Valkyr as the reason for "well she has it so why can't this" is flawed. Valkyr is a melee frame who also has the lowest shields in the entire game. She needs the massive armor or she simply falls over dead.

nyx has chaos as the ultimate cc. (good for making a meatshield fest)

and she has absorb which makes her invicible for quite a while before doing a fk ton of dmg in high levels.

so she is hardly squishy

 

volt has speed to escape anything. and electric shield which is pretty epic for blockign enemy shots. so you need armor? there ya go. invincible shield

 

necros, 65 armor, not 15 like ember nyx and volt.

terrify is pretty nice for making enemys run from him, so armor isn't needed to much

and if he does need some survivability, shadows of the dead. you have your own squad of meatshields that are doing dmg to enemies

 

so now i ask you, why do these frames have some form of survivability(whether its speed, meatshields, or a skill to make enemies run away)

and ember not have any survivability? she isnt even invincible during the casting animation of world on fire.

[RealPandemonium]

nyx has chaos as the ultimate cc. (good for making a meatshield fest)

and she has absorb which makes her invicible for quite a while before doing a fk ton of dmg in high levels.

so she is hardly squishy

 

volt has speed to escape anything. and electric shield which is pretty epic for blockign enemy shots. so you need armor? there ya go. invincible shield

 

necros, 65 armor, not 15 like ember nyx and volt.

terrify is pretty nice for making enemys run from him, so armor isn't needed to much

and if he does need some survivability, shadows of the dead. you have your own squad of meatshields that are doing dmg to enemies

 

so now i ask you, why do these frames have some form of survivability(whether its speed, meatshields, or a skill to make enemies run away)

and ember not have any survivability? she isnt even invincible during the casting animation of world on fire.

Volt has 150 base shield as well.

[Vargras]

nyx has chaos as the ultimate cc. (good for making a meatshield fest)

and she has absorb which makes her invicible for quite a while before doing a fk ton of dmg in high levels.

so she is hardly squishy

 

volt has speed to escape anything. and electric shield which is pretty epic for blockign enemy shots. so you need armor? there ya go. invincible shield

 

necros, 65 armor, not 15 like ember nyx and volt.

terrify is pretty nice for making enemys run from him, so armor isn't needed to much

and if he does need some survivability, shadows of the dead. you have your own squad of meatshields that are doing dmg to enemies

 

so now i ask you, why do these frames have some form of survivability(whether its speed, meatshields, or a skill to make enemies run away)

and ember not have any survivability? she isnt even invincible during the casting animation of world on fire.

Nyx: Without energy to use Absorb, she has nothing.

 

Volt: Electric Shield is mediocre at best, and like every other frame, running around and dodging is the best defense.

 

Nekros: The difference between 15 and 65 armor isn't noticeable at all. A Nekros can and will still die extremely quickly, and a whole 50 armor will not slow that down at all.

 

Not only that, but no frame is ever really invincible during any cast animation. Ember still doesn't need Overheat, just run and dodge more. You should already be doing this anyways.

[Nyxcha]

Nyx: Without energy to use Absorb, she has nothing.

 

Volt: Electric Shield is mediocre at best, and like every other frame, running around and dodging is the best defense.

 

Nekros: The difference between 15 and 65 armor isn't noticeable at all. A Nekros can and will still die extremely quickly, and a whole 50 armor will not slow that down at all.

 

Not only that, but no frame is ever really invincible during any cast animation. Ember still doesn't need Overheat, just run and dodge more. You should already be doing this anyways.

all casters are energy dependant. 

 

Nyx, 1.1 move speed. plus chaos is instant cast.  absorb is invicible during entire cast animation

 

volt 1 move speed, but has speed for FAST move speed (no stam required) electric shield is not mediocre as it blocks all shots and can be used to hunger down. plus the effect it has with bolt guns makes it even stronger(changing to hitscan)

 

Necros 1.1 move speed  and terrify is instant cast.

 

now for armor.

15 armor is 5% dmg res.  with full steel fiber thats 10%

65 armor is 19% dmg res. with full steel fiber thats 31% (which is pretty big)

 

 

Ember has 1 move speed. so she's as slow as volt, without the speed skill.

now for run and dodge, she has neither the movement (nova has 1.2) nor the stam(valkyr has 150) to dodge for long.

 

look at her helmets.

Ember

+25% max energy, -5% shield   would be nice if it had a dmg res/speed/ survivability skill

+15% hp, -3% speed   hp isn't to helpful as it has no dmg res to protect it. and the speed loss hurts more

 

Nyx

+15% speed, -5% shield -really effective for runnign and dodging  (1.1 speed +15%)

+15% power efficiency, -5% armor(which doesnt exist anyway) -really effective for absorb

 

Volt

+10% power str, -5% max stam

+10% power duration, -5% shield  -good for speed and electric shield

 

so, nyx has +15% speed.

volt has speed ability

nekros has more than double dmg res of volt,nyx, and ember. plus has terrify to make all enemys run away(and thus doesnt need to run)

 

so then, ember running and dodging? hows that going

 

 

 

also keep in mind helmet stats are going bibi, so ember's +25% energy isnt going to last.

while both nyx(with her + .1 speed) volt(with speed), and necros(with dmg res and terrify) will still be good without helmet stats

Edited April 3, 2014 by Arenta

[Vargras]

all casters are energy dependant. 

 

Nyx, 1.1 move speed. plus chaos is instant cast.  absorb is invicible during entire cast animation

 

volt 1 move speed, but has speed for FAST move speed (no stam required) electric shield is not mediocre as it blocks all shots and can be used to hunger down. plus the effect it has with bolt guns makes it even stronger(changing to hitscan)

 

Necros 1.1 move speed  and terrify is instant cast.

 

now for armor.

15 armor is 5% dmg res.  with full steel fiber thats 10%

65 armor is 19% dmg res. with full steel fiber thats 31% (which is pretty big)

 

 

Ember has 1 move speed. so she's as slow as volt, without the speed skill.

now for run and dodge, she has neither the movement (nova has 1.2) nor the stam(valkyr has 150) to dodge for long.

 

look at her helmets.

Ember

+25% max energy, -5% shield   would be nice if it had a dmg res/speed/ survivability skill

+15% hp, -3% speed   hp isn't to helpful as it has no dmg res to protect it. and the speed loss hurts more

 

Nyx

+15% speed, -5% shield -really effective for runnign and dodging  (1.1 speed +15%)

+15% power efficiency, -5% armor(which doesnt exist anyway) -really effective for absorb

 

Volt

+10% power str, -5% max stam

+10% power duration, -5% shield  -good for speed and electric shield

 

so, nyx has +15% speed.

volt has speed ability

nekros has more than double dmg res of volt,nyx, and ember. plus has terrify to make all enemys run away(and thus doesnt need to run)

 

so then, ember running and dodging? hows that going

 

 

 

also keep in mind helmet stats are going bibi, so ember's +25% energy isnt going to last.

while both nyx(with her + .1 speed) volt(with speed), and necros(with dmg res and terrify) will still be good without helmet stats

No Volt uses Electric Shield at end-game (other skills do it better). No Nekros is going to use Terrify at end-game (other skills do it better). Armor is still useless unless you have exceedingly high values (such as Valkyr). There is seriously no difference between 15 and 65 armor, even if the math says otherwise.

 

Overheat is not coming back, despite how many petitions are made for it. The game is better because of it.

Edited April 3, 2014 by Vargras

[(PSN)devinhot]

They should replace fire blast to be a bit more like a goku spirit bomb but without the world being decimated XD

[Dalu__Ka]

They should replace fire blast to be a bit more like a goku spirit bomb but without the world being decimated XD

 

And a casting time equal to 10 episodes.

[Kuroudy]

The only problem I have with Accelerant is that it feels too much like Overheat. If I need to bring the power down in a crowd of heavies, I'll use Fire Blast (to give me that small-AoE + stun + DoT) and World on Fire (for general use). Maaaybe I'll use Accelerant but usually not because I've already got Fire Blast running.

[(PSN)devinhot]

And a casting time equal to 10 episodes.

He literally stood in one spot for like five episodes... 

[RealPandemonium]

The only problem I have with Accelerant is that it feels too much like Overheat. If I need to bring the power down in a crowd of heavies, I'll use Fire Blast (to give me that small-AoE + stun + DoT) and World on Fire (for general use). Maaaybe I'll use Accelerant but usually not because I've already got Fire Blast running.

Fire blast is weak and inconsistent in its damage and fire procs and Accelerant increases its damage anyway.  It feels like people just aren't using Accelerant because it doesn't deal direct damage and they just don't want to think about it.  If you are one of these people you should not be giving feedback for this game because you don't understand how it works. 

[(PSN)billy-d-squid]

The only problem I have with Accelerant is that it feels too much like Overheat. If I need to bring the power down in a crowd of heavies, I'll use Fire Blast (to give me that small-AoE + stun + DoT) and World on Fire (for general use). Maaaybe I'll use Accelerant but usually not because I've already got Fire Blast running.

 

 

Accelerant with a simple intensify mod, generates a 325% damage buff from heat damage on all affected targets. If you don't need accelerant you're probably not hitting that high a lvl, vs the Grineer at lvl40-50 T3 Void, you need Accelerant to deal good damage.

 

And on a slightly separate note, no Ember does not lack survivability without Overheat, people are just face tanking, not what she is designed for. I don't knock on someone's front door with my face, I can, but it's going to be painful. Why try and tank with a frame who has 15 armour? I don't do that with Nyx, she lasts as long as a chocolate teacup, with only the same shields and armour as ember. I do spam MC, chaos and Absorb

 

The only thing Ember does need is her sprint upped to 1.15 (perhaps a hangover from Over heat's ridiculous DR?)and the extra Polarity slot being added would also be rather nice. Maybe Fireblast could be affected by stretch so it works better with Accelerant. But that's about it. She's in a reasonably good position, and can deal a lot of damage.

Edited April 3, 2014 by (PS4)billy-d-squid

[theammostore]

 

Accelerant with a simple intensify mod, generates a 325% damage buff from heat damage on all affected targets. If you don't need accelerant you're probably not hitting that high a lvl, vs the Grineer at lvl40-50 T3 Void, you need Accelerant to deal good damage.

 

And on a slightly separate note, no Ember does not lack survivability without Overheat, people are just face tanking, not what she is designed for. I don't knock on someone's front door with my face, I can, but it's going to be painful. Why try and tank with a frame who has 15 armour? I don't do that with Nyx, she lasts as long as a chocolate teacup, with only the same shields and armour as ember. I do spam MC, chaos and Absorb

 

The only thing Ember does need is her sprint upped to 1.15 (perhaps a hangover from Over heat's ridiculous DR?)and the extra Polarity slot being added would also be rather nice. Maybe Fireblast could be affected by stretch so it works better with Accelerant. But that's about it. She's in a reasonably good position, and can deal a lot of damage.

I would suggest that sprint speed or two other things.

 

-World on Fire explosions deal a small Aoe, or at least guaranteed Fire Proc in an AoE, perhaps not actual damage. Something with AoE on Ember's Ult. It feels a bit odd how something can explode from an enemy and deal nothing to it's partners. I will gladly accept a simple knockback from the exploding enemy, but i feel like that needs something

 

-Fireblast no longer has rings, but instead has a fire effect around her that 100% procs fire on enemies who come within range (same radius as the ring) but deals no direct damage only sets target on fire. The effect would follow her. Or, the rings follow her. SOmething with more mobility.

[(PSN)billy-d-squid]

I would suggest that sprint speed or two other things.

 

-World on Fire explosions deal a small Aoe, or at least guaranteed Fire Proc in an AoE, perhaps not actual damage. Something with AoE on Ember's Ult. It feels a bit odd how something can explode from an enemy and deal nothing to it's partners. I will gladly accept a simple knockback from the exploding enemy, but i feel like that needs something

 

-Fireblast no longer has rings, but instead has a fire effect around her that 100% procs fire on enemies who come within range (same radius as the ring) but deals no direct damage only sets target on fire. The effect would follow her. Or, the rings follow her. SOmething with more mobility.

 

I think WoF is in a pretty good position where it is now, the issue with adding an AoE effect per explosion is that it can achieve a 21m radius which follows Ember around for 13 seconds only using a standard continuity mod already. Possibly though. The thing is I've not noticed a need for knockback, I activate WoF and then sprint briefly, before sliding and summersaulting over the heads of the mob, WoF keeps on going and I get less damage with no chance of knock back. The summersault is big enough that I can clear an entire mob, while WoF wipes it out.

 

Fireblast, I'd just like the original blast to be affected by stretch so it can hit the 30m blast radius and affect all the enemies that Accelerant hits. The ring of Fire is actually quite useful in  Derelict Defence with Infested, as they don't tend to enter the ring, if they do they get procc'd. 

 

Making it move with Ember makes it too similar to WoF, just weaker. IMO.

 

Extra speed for Ember I think is the key, it'd make WoF more powerful given it moves with Ember.

Edited April 3, 2014 by (PS4)billy-d-squid

[Monolake]

Slight speed buff wouldv been nice indeed, chicken needs to run faster!

 

Fireblast is probably the ability no one uses, unless in infested defence. Its poo for high cost, it should be 25 for how little it does.

Edited April 3, 2014 by Monolake

[GTG3000]

She's a caster frame. Casters are squishy. That's how they are, regardless of what game is even played. What even warrants Ember getting damage reduction? Why her and not Nyx, Volt, Nekros, or any other caster frame?

 

That is the kind of mentality we should be moving away from. This game has and had a lot of potential for having different and to some extent unique toolkits for it's characters, and cutting it down to "welp, this one's a mage, damage, cc and squishyness it is" would be a damn shame.

 

Accelerant is a neat skill, but even with all the dodging and kiting it can't keep Ember alive without someone, say Nekros, Trinity or Oberon providing constant stream of healing, even as early as wave 20 ODD, it just stops stunning reliably. An ancient that decided that being stunned is too mainstream is a nasty surprise, let me tell you.

 

Overheat was a unique, fun skill. Sure, it should have had a hardcap at 90% and some drawbacks to it, like limiting range or damage or efficiency of skills, but it was good. It made Ember stand out from the standart "fire mage", to a degree. She can, and indeed does work without it, but it would not hurt the game to return this skill into game and, I don't know, fuse Accelerant with Fireblast for extra kicks and make it a persistant debuff field while we're at it. 

 

Remove (or nerfing overheat to constant 50% DR) was not necessary to fix Ember, but it has been done. Here's hopes it can be undone too.

[(PSN)billy-d-squid]

That is the kind of mentality we should be moving away from. This game has and had a lot of potential for having different and to some extent unique toolkits for it's characters, and cutting it down to "welp, this one's a mage, damage, cc and squishyness it is" would be a damn shame.

 

Accelerant is a neat skill, but even with all the dodging and kiting it can't keep Ember alive without someone, say Nekros, Trinity or Oberon providing constant stream of healing, even as early as wave 20 ODD, it just stops stunning reliably. An ancient that decided that being stunned is too mainstream is a nasty surprise, let me tell you.

 

Overheat was a unique, fun skill. Sure, it should have had a hardcap at 90% and some drawbacks to it, like limiting range or damage or efficiency of skills, but it was good. It made Ember stand out from the standart "fire mage", to a degree. She can, and indeed does work without it, but it would not hurt the game to return this skill into game and, I don't know, fuse Accelerant with Fireblast for extra kicks and make it a persistant debuff field while we're at it. 

 

Remove (or nerfing overheat to constant 50% DR) was not necessary to fix Ember, but it has been done. Here's hopes it can be undone too.

 

 

Why? The kind of balance and design you're suggesting would lead us to more Vanguard Rhino's and Nova's spamming MP for CC. 

 

The archetypes are more guidelines than actual rules. 

 

Overheat was broken, Looking at Nyx, her damage is one of the lowest out of the light frames. Should she get higher damage because it can break away from the archetypes? Why, she works fantastically as a CC specialist, rounded off with Absorb to give her some damage, but the damage is directly dependent on the damage taken and still provides CC by drawing aggro. 

 

There's no reason for her damage to be high. 

 

The same with Ember, she deals huge damage via DoT and has a decent AoE stun, with a big 325% damage buff power. Why the hell should she have DR, when she is clearly a specialised damage frame? taking out Accelerant, reduces her to a crappy DoT frame at higher lvls or limited to only infested.

[Hyunsai]

I wouldn't say no to a slight Ember buff, but I feel like she is one of the most balanced frames right now. She is very viable even in high end stuff, and got nothing broken or easily exploitable.

 

Having a blast playing her, totally worth the 3 formas.

[GTG3000]

Why? The kind of balance and design you're suggesting would lead us to more Vanguard Rhino's and Nova's spamming MP for CC. 

 

The archetypes are more guidelines than actual rules. 

 

Overheat was broken, Looking at Nyx, her damage is one of the lowest out of the light frames. Should she get higher damage because it can break away from the archetypes? Why, she works fantastically as a CC specialist, rounded off with Absorb to give her some damage, but the damage is directly dependent on the damage taken and still provides CC by drawing aggro. 

 

There's no reason for her damage to be high. 

 

The same with Ember, she deals huge damage via DoT and has a decent AoE stun, with a big 325% damage buff power. Why the hell should she have DR, when she is clearly a specialised damage frame? taking out Accelerant, reduces her to a crappy DoT frame at higher lvls or limited to only infested.

 

You're saying "fast rhino" as if it's a bad thing. 

 

Unlike Nyx, Ember can't keep herself out of harm's way all the time simply by spamming her skills, and is still, to a degree, required to be in the fray rather than "cast this and run away to a safer spot". True, with accelerant you can evade melee enemies well enough unless some of them decide to come out of it too fast, but no matter the damage, some mobs will still hit you, especially if those mobs have range. At least they hit me, so I guess mileage varies.

 

There is nothing to design I'm suggesting that would lead to overpowered frames on it's own. I'm not saying "Make ember unkillable, lol!" I'm just saying that she was a very, very nice tanky DoT caster. And I'm sounding like a terrible hypocrite right about now, but I would like to have a warframe that can pull off being a DoT damage dealer well, as opposed to instant damage of nuke-ultimates. 

 

The way I see it, Ember could have been turned into a close range killing machine, using her third to create an area that buffs fire damage and stuns/damages all who come through the ring, her fourth as a persistent DoT damage and her second to let her survive hugging enemies in that killcage of sorts, with her first being a situational explosive CC. But that's just my point of view, and as persistant as I am with showing it into everyones faces, it's not the way she is ever going to be, not with her skillset being reworked into being as good as she was before all the reworks.