'best' To 'worst' Frames Poll

[Guest Shibboleet]

No, she doesn't. The factions are just as dangerous as always. Her teammates don't necessarily have link, so what stops them from being staggered to death (staggered until blessing wears off and then just killed)? Invisibility removes this threat altogether, and in a team setting Radial Disarm+Decoy does the job nicely.

I was only bringing up link removing the stagger so that Trinity could cast bless without hinder. And if one person does happen to be staggered for 28 seconds you can always go revive them or help them out like a group should. If someone is being staggered for 28 seconds then enemies are not being killed fast enough to get the greens to even be in end game in the first place.

 

Even in a loki setting, a group would probably bring an EV specced Trinity to feed energy to the Loki for radial disarm.

Edited January 28, 2014 by Shibboleet

[SquirmyBurrito]

I was only bringing up link removing the stagger so that Trinity could cast bless without hinder. And if one person does happen to be staggered for 28 seconds you can always go revive them or help them out like a group should. If someone is being staggered for 28 seconds then enemies are not being killed fast enough to get the greens to even be in end game in the first place.

 

Even in a loki setting, a group would probably bring an EV specced Trinity to feed energy to the Loki for radial disarm.

 

I guess you've never seen what a ground-pound plus butcher crowd can do to someone? It can get nasty.

 

I don't know, I've never ran out of energy as Loki before.

[Guest Shibboleet]

I guess you've never seen what a ground-pound plus butcher crowd can do to someone? It can get nasty.

 

I don't know, I've never ran out of energy as Loki before.

Actually in late game Grineer I've never seen anything that gets into melee range last more than 2 seconds.

[SquirmyBurrito]

Actually in late game Grineer I've never seen anything that gets into melee range last more than 2 seconds.

 

Lucky you, my teammates aren't always so fortunate.

[Guest Shibboleet]

Lucky you, my teammates aren't always so fortunate.

Not luck, strategy for late/end game ;)

[SquirmyBurrito]

Not luck, strategy for late/end game ;)

 

Sounds like I need new teammates ._.

[-XeqtR]

There are only really categories of missions: Endless, Exterm, and Rush-able objective. The frame tiers for the first one are going to feature the frames with high CC/utility and surviviability. The second most often just requires high damage, CC and utility are usually unnecessary (but they're nice) and survivability is ignore-able. Rush-able objective games do not require CC, Utility, or Survivability. Frames that do the best here are those frames with high sprint speed and high mobility (to a lesser extent).

 

 

Banshee: 1. Pretty useless once you get to the point where Rhino with iron skin is getting oneshotted. 2. Good. 3. Terrible. 4. A long range stagger isn't all that impressive. And there are other abilities with just as much range that impair enemies for far longer (Radial Blind). 

 

Rhino: 1. Great mobility skill, also happens to knockdown enemies (so they wouldn't be oneshotting you). 2. Good up to that point, a waste of energy beyond. 3. Good. 4. Good.

 

Rhino has 3 useful abilities at high level, Banshee has 2 (She'd be dead from stray bullets before SB could do anything). The amount of still usable abilities a frame has at high level aren't the measure of success. It is how useful those abilities are at that level that matter. At high levels, the only ability of Banshee's that is useful is Sonar (SQ too if you're playing solo, otherwise there should be a better CC frame so SQ is a waste of time)

 

 

 

Why is Loki mid-tier? He has better survivability than most of the frames in high-tier and has a hard counter to all factions. If you're basing your list on how frames can get by themselves you might as well just bump Loki up to god-tier. He is the god of solo.

First of all, in regards to the thread being about "high level" I believe what I said before that endless missions would be the only considered missions since the others definitely do not see high level.

 

Banshee's #1 is good for defense, if enemies rush the frost globe you can push them back out of it (this is use-able past the 1 shot point).

 

Sound-Quake is different than radial blind because it staggers them in place for a period of time, meaning your team can shoot them while you spam stun-lock them. As for radial blind, this effect wears off when anything is shot and does not act as a stun or stagger. I have done 100 waves of infested without Vauban by strictly controlling them with SQ, it isn't bad by any means but I will agree other methods are better. (This is not bragging - just using it as an example of usefulness).

As for Rhino:

Like I said Iron skin is worthless when 1 shot so we'll leave that out.

 

You can't really justify rhino charge, unless you're already being kept immune by a trinity (in which case any ability could be deemed better), you'll still die. You can only knock down those enemies in that line, chances are there are other enemies in other spots easily able to 1-shot you, not to mention the charge overextends your position. In defense it's completely useless and in survival perhaps if, like I said before, you had a trinity keeping you immune, which in that case why would you need to knock them down anyway then?

 

The last part about Loki.. (I know that it wasn't directed at me but I'm responding to it) as I said previously, the thread is about ranking frames for "high level". In my opinion true high level cannot be attained via solo play, so his survivability isn't a factor. Also, from my experience, Loki is a great frame (don't get me wrong) but requires a lot of spamming and energy to accomplish this. As Shibboleet was saying, in order to keep the entire map disarmed (In example of survival) you would need to consistently spam disarm as the second you let one enemy go without being disarmed you are 1-shot. Thus a trinity to feed energy is the best solution for this. 

[kubbi]

Why is Loki mid-tier? He has better survivability than most of the frames in high-tier and has a hard counter to all factions. If you're basing your list on how frames can get by themselves you might as well just bump Loki up to god-tier. He is the god of solo.

 

Its not about how far they can get by themselves. I was only using an example with Trinity. Its my list as to how much the frames can archieve overall. But I gave it a second thought and yeah. I'd say Loki is high tier. I'll go edit my list now.

[Scrybatog]

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/162829-warframes-tiered-based-on-end-game-30/

 

This was already handled here

[Sh1n3y]

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/162829-warframes-tiered-based-on-end-game-30/

 

This was already handled here

Thanks. That's an excellent post. Another way to look at it.

[Archistopheles]

After reading everyone's responses, you really have to break this into categories:

 

Damage tier, Crowd Control tier, Support Tier.

 

Nova tops the Damage Tier list

 

Nyx, Vauban & Excalibur top the Crowd Control Tier

 

Trinity, Rhino, Nekros & Frost top the Support Tier

[SquirmyBurrito]

First of all, in regards to the thread being about "high level" I believe what I said before that endless missions would be the only considered missions since the others definitely do not see high level.

 

Banshee's #1 is good for defense, if enemies rush the frost globe you can push them back out of it (this is use-able past the 1 shot point).

 

Sound-Quake is different than radial blind because it staggers them in place for a period of time, meaning your team can shoot them while you spam stun-lock them. As for radial blind, this effect wears off when anything is shot and does not act as a stun or stagger. I have done 100 waves of infested without Vauban by strictly controlling them with SQ, it isn't bad by any means but I will agree other methods are better. (This is not bragging - just using it as an example of usefulness).

As for Rhino:

Like I said Iron skin is worthless when 1 shot so we'll leave that out.

 

You can't really justify rhino charge, unless you're already being kept immune by a trinity (in which case any ability could be deemed better), you'll still die. You can only knock down those enemies in that line, chances are there are other enemies in other spots easily able to 1-shot you, not to mention the charge overextends your position. In defense it's completely useless and in survival perhaps if, like I said before, you had a trinity keeping you immune, which in that case why would you need to knock them down anyway then?

 

The last part about Loki.. (I know that it wasn't directed at me but I'm responding to it) as I said previously, the thread is about ranking frames for "high level". In my opinion true high level cannot be attained via solo play, so his survivability isn't a factor. Also, from my experience, Loki is a great frame (don't get me wrong) but requires a lot of spamming and energy to accomplish this. As Shibboleet was saying, in order to keep the entire map disarmed (In example of survival) you would need to consistently spam disarm as the second you let one enemy go without being disarmed you are 1-shot. Thus a trinity to feed energy is the best solution for this. 

 

I agree, I'm just pointing that out as a response to whoever said the frames should be ranked according to the individual missions.

 

That relies on you having a snow globe to protect you. Without one it is way too dangerous.

 

I brought up Radial Blind since it CAN be used to stunlock enemies as well, it probably even does the job better. I'll explain:

SQ costs 100 at base and only stun/staggers enemies for 6 seconds. This is not affected by duration mods. It also has 2 seconds worth of delays (cast and post-cast delay). 

 

RB costs 50 at base and stuns for 5 seconds in addition to a X second blind duration. The stun is not affected by duration mods. It has a 1 second cast time.

 

Okay, I wasn't listing Rhino skin among the 3 useful skills. I was talking about Charge, Roar, and Stomp.

 

It is useful for mobility purposes, the knockdown on it is just a nice bonus. It would allow you to use the Thrak helmet without having to worry about being unable to move around fast enough.

 

You should probably go use Loki more. You don't have to constantly spam Radial Disarm when you maximize it. Everything within 50 meters gets disabled and it only costs 25 energy to do it. Constantly keeping a Decoy up and between you and the enemies also prevents anything newly spawned from oneshotting you. With a pool of 450 energy, energy siphon, and 75% power efficiency, you should never find yourself running low on energy. If you are solo'ing it is even easier since you can just use a pure invisibility build, which allows you to constantly recast invisibility with an overall gain in energy (regenerating more energy than you're using per cast). Solo Survivals with Loki are a cakewalk. You do not need a trinity, I'm not even sure where that idea came from.

 

And just encase I need to say it again... Enemies will not attack you when there is a Decoy closer to them. Use this to your advantage.

 

Its not about how far they can get by themselves. I was only using an example with Trinity. Its my list as to how much the frames can archieve overall. But I gave it a second thought and yeah. I'd say Loki is high tier. I'll go edit my list now.

 

Ah, okay.

 

After reading everyone's responses, you really have to break this into categories:

 

Damage tier, Crowd Control tier, Support Tier.

 

Nova tops the Damage Tier list

 

Nyx, Vauban & Excalibur top the Crowd Control Tier

 

Trinity, Rhino, Nekros & Frost top the Support Tier

 

You forgot Loki.

[Guest Shibboleet]

After reading everyone's responses, you really have to break this into categories:

 

Damage tier, Crowd Control tier, Support Tier.

 

Nova tops the Damage Tier list

 

Nyx, Vauban & Excalibur top the Crowd Control Tier

 

Trinity, Rhino, Nekros & Frost top the Support Tier

Radial blind can't be spammed

[-XeqtR]

I agree, I'm just pointing that out as a response to whoever said the frames should be ranked according to the individual missions.

 

That relies on you having a snow globe to protect you. Without one it is way too dangerous.

 

I brought up Radial Blind since it CAN be used to stunlock enemies as well, it probably even does the job better. I'll explain:

SQ costs 100 at base and only stun/staggers enemies for 6 seconds. This is not affected by duration mods. It also has 2 seconds worth of delays (cast and post-cast delay). 

 

RB costs 50 at base and stuns for 5 seconds in addition to a X second blind duration. The stun is not affected by duration mods. It has a 1 second cast time.

 

Okay, I wasn't listing Rhino skin among the 3 useful skills. I was talking about Charge, Roar, and Stomp.

 

It is useful for mobility purposes, the knockdown on it is just a nice bonus. It would allow you to use the Thrak helmet without having to worry about being unable to move around fast enough.

 

You should probably go use Loki more. You don't have to constantly spam Radial Disarm when you maximize it. Everything within 50 meters gets disabled and it only costs 25 energy to do it. Constantly keeping a Decoy up and between you and the enemies also prevents anything newly spawned from oneshotting you. With a pool of 450 energy, energy siphon, and 75% power efficiency, you should never find yourself running low on energy. If you are solo'ing it is even easier since you can just use a pure invisibility build, which allows you to constantly recast invisibility with an overall gain in energy (regenerating more energy than you're using per cast). Solo Survivals with Loki are a cakewalk. You do not need a trinity, I'm not even sure where that idea came from.

 

And just encase I need to say it again... Enemies will not attack you when there is a Decoy closer to them. Use this to your advantage.

 

You totally missed the part where I said that "In my opinion true high level cannot be attained via solo play". The advantages of him being a solo frame mean nothing since you will never see a high enough level for those to be a factor. I'm strictly referring to him as a team player as a part of a group that can all be 1 shot at any time. The decoy has it's own HP, so with that logic your decoy is also in 1-shot range. Imagine a napalm getting a shot off before your disarm, there goes 1-4 people in one shot. (In this example I'm referring to survival, not defense obviously.)

[EnderDragon1324]

.....There is a damn Nekros where Ash should be......

\( -.-)/ yay.....

[SquirmyBurrito]

Radial blind can't be spammed

 

It can be recast every five seconds (when the initial five second stun ends).

 

You totally missed the part where I said that "In my opinion true high level cannot be attained via solo play". The advantages of him being a solo frame mean nothing since you will never see a high enough level for those to be a factor. I'm strictly referring to him as a team player as a part of a group that can all be 1 shot at any time. The decoy has it's own HP, so with that logic your decoy is also in 1-shot range. Imagine a napalm getting a shot off before your disarm, there goes 1-4 people in one shot. (In this example I'm referring to survival, not defense obviously.)

 

I disagreed with that part, I don't see how it is impossible for a solo'er to achieve the same levels as a team. One just requires more work.

 

Loki works well in a team setting as well. 

 

If a Napalm gets a shot off it will be shooting at your well placed Decoy. So you and your 1-3 teammates all live. Napalms do not shoot fast enough for you to be unable to disarm them before they can turn their fire to your teammates. Vauban makes infested into a joke, Loki makes every mission an infested mission. You do the math. Loki is a god of solo, this does not mean he isn't also the number #1 wingman in Warframe.

Edited January 29, 2014 by SquirmyBurrito

[Guest Shibboleet]

It can be recast every five seconds (when the initial five second stun ends).

 

 

I disagreed with that part, I don't see how it is impossible for a solo'er to achieve the same levels as a team. One just requires more work.

 

Loki works well in a team setting as well. 

 

If a Napalm gets a shot off it will be shooting at your well placed Decoy. So you and your 1-3 teammates all live. Napalms do not shoot fast enough for you to be unable to disarm them before they can turn their fire to your teammates. Vauban makes infested into a joke, Loki makes every mission an infested mission. You do the math. Loki is a god of solo, this does not mean he isn't also the number #1 wingman in Warframe.

If you bring a frame for CC, it is nice to be able to use a CC again during the 5 seconds (in this example) if a moa or some sort of infested charges in. Excal is worse than other CC frames because of this.

 

On the other topic, there is no way a soloer can go up to a 2+ hour survival or a 200 wave defense (maybe infested for defense, but would take forever). When discussing end game, soloing is not included; I'm also almost considering to not even count infested with how easily they are CC'd by Vauban.

Edited January 29, 2014 by Shibboleet

[(PSN)friedricetheman]

Ash should be tier 2. He is a very viable frame if you spec into Smoke Screen duration and slap on a Glaive Prime and Paris Prime (both are silent weapons).

 

He can pretty much do any missions that is not Survival or Defense without triggering the alarm. Perpetual invisibility is very cool.

 

His other powers are meh but Smoke Screen's bonus to melee weapons makes even a Skana viable on him.

 

If I go solo nightmare, then I'll equip Glaive Prime (with punch through and extra bounce build)

If I go team/solo boss slaying, then I use a dual Zoren (with high crits build)

If I go on any other mission (with other players), I prefer to have an Ogris and Bo for maximum CC.

[Guest Shibboleet]

Ash should be tier 2. He is a very viable frame if you spec into Smoke Screen duration and slap on a Glaive Prime and Paris Prime (both are silent weapons).

 

He can pretty much do any missions that is not Survival or Defense without triggering the alarm. Perpetual invisibility is very cool.

 

His other powers are meh but Smoke Screen's bonus to melee weapons makes even a Skana viable on him.

 

If I go solo nightmare, then I'll equip Glaive Prime (with punch through and extra bounce build)

If I go team/solo boss slaying, then I use a dual Zoren (with high crits build)

If I go on any other mission (with other players), I prefer to have an Ogris and Bo for maximum CC.

I take it you didn't read the first post in the thread. This is a thread entertaining the idea of an end/late game list, but I shall respond to you why Ash is not as good as other frames for any reason.

 

Invisiblity? Go Loki. Invisibility has 4? longer base seconds of stealth.

Want to do damage? Go any other dps frame and you will do more dps per single target, but you will also aoe at the same time. This is comparing shuriken because bladestorms dps is so low you may as well be shooting.

CC/Utility on that smokescreen? Pick up other dps frames to gain a spammable CC that lasts longer and has a wider AOE. - The same frames that out dps him.

 

There is nothing he excels at pve wise compared to other frames. Heck, even Valkyr has an long ranged aoe snare + knockback.

[SquirmyBurrito]

If you bring a frame for CC, it is nice to be able to use a CC again during the 5 seconds (in this example) if a moa or some sort of infested charges in. Excal is worse than other CC frames because of this.

 

On the other topic, there is no way a soloer can go up to a 2+ hour survival or a 200 wave defense (maybe infested for defense, but would take forever). When discussing end game, soloing is not included; I'm also almost considering to not even count infested with how easily they are CC'd by Vauban.

 

What other CC frames can recast their ability every 5> seconds? Nyx can't. Vauban can but it hardly matters since he isn't going to affect a room full of mobs. The five seconds Excal is forced to wait is purely the duration of the initial stun, meaning after that five seconds the blind effect kicks in. Excal can effectively keep an entire 50m radius stunlocked until he runs out of energy. Excal is actually a really good CC frame.

 

What makes you say a solo'r couldn't go two+ hours in survival? Why would you ignore infested? Vauban can easily CC all factions when Loki is with him. You going to ignore any match featuring that duo?

 

Edit: wow... I need to stop typing when I'm tired. Way too many typos.

Edited January 29, 2014 by SquirmyBurrito

[Guest Shibboleet]

What other CC frames can recast their ability every 5> seconds? Nyx can't. Vauban can but it hardly matters since he isn't going to affect a room full of mobs. The five seconds Excal is forced to wait is purely the duration of the initial stun, meaning after that five seconds the blind effect kicks in. Excal can effectively keep an entire 50m radius stunlocked until he runs out of energy. Excal is actually a really good CC frame.

 

What makes you say a solo'r couldn't go two+ hours in survival? Why would you ignore infested? Vauban can easily CC all factions when Loki is with him. You going to ignore any match featuring that duo?

 

Edit: wow... I need to stop typing when I'm tired. Way too many typos.

Other CC frames have other traits that are useful (Nyx; Absorb), or just plain better CC (such as Vauban). I would also not bring Nyx for Chaos, but absorb, and even then only on infested.

 

Not enough life support in a t3 to go for 2 hours solo, too much rng. Infested are too easy to count as something because they're melee and can be dodged with ease. Loki + Vauban is a good combo for CC if you want to sacrifice a frames worth of damage.

Edited January 29, 2014 by Shibboleet

[SquirmyBurrito]

Other CC frames have other traits that are useful (Nyx; Absorb), or just plain better CC (such as Vauban). I would also not bring Nyx for Chaos, but absorb, and even then only on infested.

 

Not enough life support in a t3 to go for 2 hours solo, too much rng. Infested are too easy to count as something because they're melee and can be dodged with ease. Loki + Vauban is a good combo for CC if you want to sacrifice a frames worth of damage.

 

Chaos is better than Radial Blind in my opinion, had an debate with another user over that a little while back... so not everyone agrees. Vauban's CC is only better in certain situations I.E- Infested, and/or maps with nice choke points. But in standard, wide-open maps Vauban is going to be less useful than Radial Blind.

 

Chaos is amazing. Absorb is okay and works as a poor man's snow globe.

 

I've never had trouble finding life support, maybe you just have horrible luck or aren't killing things fast enough.

 

Frame damage hardly matters in higher level missions, not sure why you'd even bother mentioning it if you have played those missions. Loki and Vauban turn missions into nothing but shooting fish (enemies) in a barrel (vortex); Assuming you put a punch-through mod on, you should also be able to greatly decrease ammo consumption. What frames you bring in addition to those two doesn't really matter... Nekros if it's survival and (if you're feeling antsy and/or don't trust the Loki player) Trinity/Frost depending on the mission type, availability, and general preference.

[-XeqtR]

 

I've never had trouble finding life support, maybe you just have horrible luck or aren't killing things fast enough.

Please show me a screen shot of you soloing a survival to 2h with your elite "fast killing". I'm already telling you it cannot be done.

[SquirmyBurrito]

Please show me a screen shot of you soloing a survival to 2h with your elite "fast killing". I'm already telling you it cannot be done.

 

If I have the free time, sure. What survival would you like me to do?

[-XeqtR]

If I have the free time, sure. What survival would you like me to do?

Oh I get to choose? Well this is even better. Do any Grineer survival - your choice, just Grineer.