Plasma Weapons Deal Slash Damage?

[EipokKruden]

I suggest that all Plasma and Laser weapons (nearly all Corpus weapons) be modified to deal Heat damage instead of Slash damage. It simply doesn't make sense for them to deal Slash damage, and no Heat damage. 

 

As an aside, DE, can you please stop confusing plasma and lasers? The new Tetra is NOT a pulse laser, as it fires projectiles with visible travel times. Not sure if any employees at DE have eyeballs in their heads, but if some do, then they'll have noticed that light is not a trackable projectile. That's just not how it works.

[Regar]

nope, it's a game

[Makya]

Amusingly enough.. the only example of a pulsed laser i could find through google is in fact as the Tetra is(though much much tinier).

 

Side note.. Lasers cut, so they should have slashing.

Edited January 26, 2014 by Makya

[theammostore]

Pretty sure it's a video game, and it doesn't have to extremely realistic. I mean, Star Wars had lasers, and we all know we could see those things. But, to be honest, I wouldn't mind the damage change from slash to heat, so long as the actual damage is pretty small unless it's already slash oriented.

 

But, with that said, your tiny minirant about lasers and plasma, it's a fictional universe man, it doesn't have to make sense all the time. I mean, we have living weaponry, guns that can shoot radiation which will cause an enemy to forget which side he's on but not the rest of his memories, battle suits that can create healing orbs that fly around the environment to friendlies, giant psychic bubbles which will (after a period of time) reflect the damage those bullets would cause but not the bullets or lazers themselves, and last but not least an alternate dimension where science and reason fail to exist where those battle suits and some weapons actually come from.

[Marshall]

no, it is not plasma either. plasma is hot gas and would diffuse instantly at contact with the surrounding air, so it cannot travel at a straight line. as somebody said before: it is a game.

[EipokKruden]

Side note.. Lasers cut, so they should have slashing.

Lasers don't cut, they melt.

 

 

nope, it's a game

What a brilliant and compelling argument. 

 

Just because it's a game doesn't mean it doesn't have to reflect reality, unless its not reflecting reality is an integral part of the game's aesthetics or mechanics. Warframe is supposed to be set far in the future, not in an alternate dimension where the laws of physics work differently. 

[Makya]

Lasers don't cut, they melt.

They divide things at a rate of which we call cutting.

 

not in an alternate dimension where the laws of physics work differently. 

Can you explain to me how a person under near current day technology and science changes his cells to create aspects we call invisibility? How about telepathy over a high velocity objects enough to not only stop bullets fired at him but redirect them to where he wills it? Those were two powers of the first Tenno set in this era(And no, those powers were not from a suit but the tainted human). 

[DaftMeat]

Let's argue physics in a game where people run on walls and create wormholes and teleport and summon fire from nothing.

I wish I had a clip of that Simpsons episode where a fan is critiquing an Itchy & Scratchy cartoon, where the mouse hits a cat's ribcage twice but produces 2 different notes. "Are we to believe this is some kind of *magical* skeleton?"

Willing suspension of disbelief is required.

[Regar]

What a brilliant and compelling argument. 

Just because it's a game doesn't mean it doesn't have to reflect reality, unless its not reflecting reality is an integral part of the game's aesthetics or mechanics. Warframe is supposed to be set far in the future, not in an alternate dimension where the laws of physics work differently. 

well, to me my sentence is enough to explain everything i wanted to say,  if the sentence is simple it doesn't necessarily mean that's pointless

think about it, are those things really important into a game? the answer is nope, because it's a game

 

that's why

nope, it's a game

Edited January 26, 2014 by Regar

[Nachino]

Unless its not reflecting reality is an integral part of the game's aesthetics or mechanics.

Warframe is supposed to be set far in the future, that gives DE freedom to do whatever they want with game mechanics.

Warframe is supposed to be set far in the future, not in an alternate dimension where the laws of physics work differently. 

Warframe is supposed to be set far in the future, that gives DE freedom to do whatever they want with game mechanics.Its not reflecting reality as an integral part of the game in almost any way, they can do what they want.

 

And "nope, it`s a game" is a valid answer, although it`s not an argmunent, in this case. There are no realistic games, there are immersive games.

[Serialkillerwhale]

Space Ninjas

/Thread.

[Tr1ples1xer]

There is already a major lack of gibs when not using a heavily dominant slash weapon, we need more gibs not less ! so that would mean more slash weapons as well or give every weapon gibbing capability :D

[EipokKruden]

Space Ninjas

/Thread.

A lot of the Warframes are more like Samurai than Ninja. Really, only Ash and Loki are truly Ninja.

 

They divide things at a rate of which we call cutting.

 

Can you explain to me how a person under near current day technology and science changes his cells to create aspects we call invisibility? How about telepathy over a high velocity objects enough to not only stop bullets fired at him but redirect them to where he wills it? Those were two powers of the first Tenno set in this era(And no, those powers were not from a suit but the tainted human). 

That is not possible with current technology, but it is at least physically possible.

 

Also, as I said before, LASERS DO NOT CUT, THEY MELT. Cutting Lasers are only called that so that people know exactly what they're for, because if they were called Melting Lasers, people would assume that the lasers melted entire objects rather than specific parts. How about this: Does fire cut? No, it doesn't, it burns or melts, thus separating one part of an object from another. If you coated a piece of paper in nonflammable material, except for a straight line down the centre, and then applied accelerant to that straight line and set it on fire, the fire would separate the two halves of the paper quickly and neatly, but it would not cut the paper. 

 

 

There is already a major lack of gibs when not using a heavily dominant slash weapon, we need more gibs not less ! so that would mean more slash weapons as well or give every weapon gibbing capability :D

 

Agreed. I think the Synapse has gibbing capability, as it seems to do that even though it's purely elemental damage. Nearly every weapon should be like that.

Edited January 27, 2014 by EipokKruden

[HAYABU5A]

plasma is the 4th state of matter, on earth in industrial we use "cold" plasma it burns at 7,000 - 16,000 degrees celsius and moves at 6000 meters per second - to say its hot and would burn is a understatement 

 

plasma generated from lighting in the sky is 30,000 degrees celsius , cosmic plasma millions of degrees celsius 

 

a weaponized plasma would prob be at 5,000 - 15,000 degrees celsius at that temperature it would instantly burn thru any organic tissue and almost all types of armor, in fact it would start burning you before the projectile even impacts so yes definately it should do heat damage 

[EipokKruden]

plasma is the 4th state of matter, on earth in industrial we use "cold" plasma it burns at 7,000 - 16,000 degrees celsius and moves at 6000 meters per second - to say its hot and would burn is a understatement 

 

plasma generated from lighting in the sky is 30,000 degrees celsius , cosmic plasma millions of degrees celsius 

 

a weaponized plasma would prob be at 5,000 - 15,000 degrees celsius at that temperature it would instantly burn thru any organic tissue and almost all types of armor, in fact it would start burning you before the projectile even impacts so yes definately it should do heat damage 

And it should gib, because at that heat it'd explosively flash-boil the moisture around the projectile for quite a distance. The result would probably cause anyone shot by it to pop like a meat balloon.

 

So, plasma weapons should have lots of heat damage, some puncture, no impact or slash, high status chance, and high gib chance. Also, thanks for backing me up on this. I want my plasma weapons to melt and/or explode people, not cause inexplicable bleeding.

[Makya]

That is not possible with current technology, but it is at least physically possible.

Can you explain then how it is physically possible to, without suit turn invisible?

 

Also, as I said before, LASERS DO NOT CUT, THEY MELT. Cutting Lasers are only called that so that people know exactly what they're for, because if they were called Melting Lasers, people would assume that the lasers melted entire objects rather than specific parts. How about this: Does fire cut? No, it doesn't, it burns or melts, thus separating one part of an object from another. If you coated a piece of paper in nonflammable material, except for a straight line down the centre, and then applied accelerant to that straight line and set it on fire, the fire would separate the two halves of the paper quickly and neatly, but it would not cut the paper. 

Using that logic then, can you tell me how the same bullet bullet Cuts, Pierces and Blunt force strikes something all at the same time? Because they don't in reality. Bullets do not have sharp edges as it would ruin their flight path and are smooth objects. Their force is focused onto small areas to apply blunt force over a tiny area for the purpose of piercing unless using non lethal rounds which is built to not pierce but deposit the kinetic energy fully into the target and stop its momentum. Do you also wish to change every bullet focused weapon to be more logical as well?

[HillsAndTheSea]

There is already a major lack of gibs when not using a heavily dominant slash weapon, we need more gibs not less ! so that would mean more slash weapons as well or give every weapon gibbing capability :D

 

it bugs me to no end how valkyr's claws have absolutely no gore 

[bobafetthotmail]

Also, as I said before, LASERS DO NOT CUT, THEY MELT.

Incorrect. Lasers heat up stuff, at a rate depending on their output. They can melt stuff, BUT... if you dump a ton of heat faster than the target material can heat itself up, you are flash-vapourizing the outer layer of said material.

(that's also how ablative shielding works, the shield material is an insulator so the outer layer heats up A LOT and vapourizes, leaving the layers below it relatively cold)

 

With a pulsed laser beam you flash-vapourize a layer per pulse (each pulse is very very short, each "shot" is lots and lots of pulses), and that's how they make laser drills (all industrial laser cutters are laser drills), that are also the only practical laser weapon on mildly armored targets anyway.

 

If you do that on an organic being... you know... biology class... we have lots of water in our bodies. Flash-vapourizing flesh means that the water in it turns into steam. Steam micro-explosions in flesh will tear it apart, not burn it.

 

Flux rifle is remarkably close to what a weaponized laser in real-life will be (yes, lasers in real life do have BIG range issues). Also slash damage.

 

All the Corpus weapons with travel time seem to be the archetypical SF plasma gun, which makes no sense in real life anyway.

 

If you want a good reading about what a weaponized laser should be able to do as tech gets there... head for the good old Atomic Rockets website. http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/sidearmenergy.php

 

plasma is the 4th state of matter, on earth in industrial we use "cold" plasma it burns at 7,000 - 16,000 degrees celsius and moves at 6000 meters per second - to say its hot and would burn is a understatement 

Temperature is not the whole picture. What hurts is thermal energy, where mass AND temperature are factors. Also how fast you can transfer that to the target makes a HUGE difference.

 

Plasma is still a gas by definition. Low low density, usually even lower than the average gas because it is so much hotter. Low density means crappy thermal energy per shot, and crappy heat transfer speed on the target.

 

All industrial tools using plasma generate a continuous stream of it and need to stay on the spot for a relatively long time. THey can't be realistically weaponized because of the plasma's own limitations.

 

Case in point, higher layers of Earth atmosphere you can find in low-ish Eath orbit have ridiculous temperatures, well over 50'000 kelvins, but they are so low density that even astronauts with the crappy space suits from the Gemini program had nothing to fear from that. And satellites don't need insulation to protect from that either.

 

Another case in point. Hot air in an oven. you can keep your hand in the oven where the air is at well above water boiling point and you won't be harmed. Because air is NOT particularly dense. If you touch the oven wall, you WILL get hurt.

[Marshall]

ladies, please. calm down

[HailCreation]

Well the spectra IS a cutting tool. 

[LazyKnight]

 

The biggest stretch in the Sci-fi genre are normally plasma weapon. Even 'Space Magic' is more believable than plasma weapon functioning outside of a vacuum(can work in air just goes inches).

 

I didn't care that Star Wars used the Force(space magic) as a catchall, but it did bother me that Gas guns were used as Blasters . It would be conceivable to have space ship launched ionized plasma targeting things in space, just not planet based weapon systems targeting things within an atmosphere.

 

The plasma stuff simply can not be used in an atmosphere. Other directed energy weapon can work in air, just not plasma because of its low mass and rapid blooming. Even if a direct plasma feed could be taken from a fusion reactor and launched it wouldn't go more than 2 feet, even if the plasma's magnetic field could be stabilized it would be overwhelmed by air resistance.

 

A lot of the other stuff is possible enough that people can suspend disbelief, and assume -insert plot device- solved the limitation of our current battery technology(really #1 biggest hurdle).

 

 

 

With a pulsed laser beam you flash-vapourize a layer per pulse (each pulse is very very short, each "shot" is lots and lots of pulses), and that's how they make laser drills (all industrial laser cutters are laser drills), that are also the only practical laser weapon on mildly armored targets anyway.

The continues weapons depicted in Warframe would be particle beam or particle accelerators. They are limited range weapon that transfer energy by kinetic energy to disrupt the targets molecular structure by bombarding it with charged particles.

 

There are no laser weapon in Warframe useable by players. The only weapon that could possible be a laser is Dethcube vaporize skill.

Edited January 28, 2014 by LazyKnight

[EipokKruden]

Can you explain then how it is physically possible to, without suit turn invisible?

The same way a chameleon changes its cells colour, just more rapidly and accurately, aided by nanotech.

Using that logic then, can you tell me how the same bullet bullet Cuts, Pierces and Blunt force strikes something all at the same time? Because they don't in reality. Bullets do not have sharp edges as it would ruin their flight path and are smooth objects. Their force is focused onto small areas to apply blunt force over a tiny area for the purpose of piercing unless using non lethal rounds which is built to not pierce but deposit the kinetic energy fully into the target and stop its momentum. Do you also wish to change every bullet focused weapon to be more logical as well?

Bullets shouldn't have impact and puncture, as it's one or the other, but they should all have slash, as bullets cause bleeding. So, you're right, the ballistic weapons shouldn't deal impact damage. That's a problem, though, because of the way DE designed Damage 2. Bullets that have high impact would flatten upon striking a target, bullets with high puncture would pierce the target. Both, however, would deal the same impact damage to a shield, as the shield stops both completely, thus transferring the kinetic force whether the bullet is designed to be armour-piercing or not.

 

 

Incorrect. Lasers heat up stuff, at a rate depending on their output. They can melt stuff, BUT... if you dump a ton of heat faster than the target material can heat itself up, you are flash-vapourizing the outer layer of said material.

(that's also how ablative shielding works, the shield material is an insulator so the outer layer heats up A LOT and vapourizes, leaving the layers below it relatively cold)

 

With a pulsed laser beam you flash-vapourize a layer per pulse (each pulse is very very short, each "shot" is lots and lots of pulses), and that's how they make laser drills (all industrial laser cutters are laser drills), that are also the only practical laser weapon on mildly armored targets anyway.

 

If you do that on an organic being... you know... biology class... we have lots of water in our bodies. Flash-vapourizing flesh means that the water in it turns into steam. Steam micro-explosions in flesh will tear it apart, not burn it.

 

Flux rifle is remarkably close to what a weaponized laser in real-life will be (yes, lasers in real life do have BIG range issues). Also slash damage.

Yes, lasers striking flesh SHOULD cause the person to explode, but that would make lasers instagib once past armour, or against any unarmoured spot on an enemy. So yeah, they shouldn't really set stuff on fire, as the stuff should die before that can happen, but DE would never use that mechanic, so heat damage seems to be the best substitute.

 

Also, thanks for pointing out how cutting lasers work, but the Flux Rifle doesn't work like a cutting laser. It deals impact damage and puncture damage in equal and minimal amounts, and lots of slash damage. It's anti-flesh, and doesn't do well against armour, hence why I think it's continuous rather than pulsed. If it's continuous, then I think it WOULD melt. So yes, thank you for explaining how cutting lasers work IRL, but clearly DE doesn't agree with you either.

[EipokKruden]

The biggest stretch in the Sci-fi genre are normally plasma weapon. Even 'Space Magic' is more believable than plasma weapon functioning outside of a vacuum(can work in air just goes inches).

Nice that you say that, as I remember it being noted in Halo that the Covenant "plasma" weapons were more like incomprehensible and unfathomable Forerunner-derived space-magic than something that can be replicated with then-current (2550 CE) technology. They're called plasma weapons because that's what they look like, but they require some kind of projected-containment fields that would be completely impossible to achieve for even thousands of years, and possibly indefinitely longer.

[Makya]

Using your own logic, simply because a bullet can make someone bleed(so do lasers) it does not mean that they cut. They simply are applied with enough kinetic force to punch through the flesh of a target destroying or malforming the material that offers resistance. Also you are wrong, there are ballistic, non-lethal rounds which focus on bruising and staggering targets, aka impact damage focused. Because of this a shield would react differently to a force trying to apply force to a wide area differently to a force trying to apply force to a small area (impact vs puncture).

[EipokKruden]

Using your own logic, simply because a bullet can make someone bleed(so do lasers) it does not mean that they cut. They simply are applied with enough kinetic force to punch through the flesh of a target destroying or malforming the material that offers resistance. Also you are wrong, there are ballistic, non-lethal rounds which focus on bruising and staggering targets, aka impact damage focused. Because of this a shield would react differently to a force trying to apply force to a wide area differently to a force trying to apply force to a small area (impact vs puncture).

The shield would react the same way, as the shield covers the entire surface area of the enemy equally. Both armour-piercing and flattening projectiles would do the same impact damage to the shield, so long as they have the same mass and impact at the same velocity.

 

Also, the laser would not cause bleeding. It would cause loss of limbs, or a giant hole in a person's torso, or the complete absence of a head. If it doesn't cause rapid expansion of the moisture in the target enemy, then that's because the heat wasn't sufficient, which would cause a burn. With a laser weapon like that, there is no inbetween. It's either fatal, or it isn't. It will not cause tearing, ripping, or malforming of the flesh such that it would cause bleeding anywhere near what a bullet would.