_Riva_ Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 ..I was wondering since DE doesn't seem to really display it anywhere (anymore?).Plus, on a side note, if this is a Beta, is there a date when they expect to reach a 'true release' ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shifted Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 More like open alpha. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armouredhunter Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Yes it is still in beta with no official "true release" date. There are large parts of the game changing or are about to change that DE feels uncomfortable with giving it anything near the title of a full released game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virtus_Dei_Est Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) Edited January 30, 2014 by omega_phoenix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiggCMan Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Yea it is, and it actually does say so. On the login screen in the upper right hand corner you can see it. http://imgur.com/SNHrHcY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archistopheles Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 It's not just beta, it's super beta, or if you prefer: Beta-Max. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_Redwire Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 While it is technically displayed (but only once you reach the login screen, meaning you've already taken the time to install the game) DE should really be displaying that it's in beta somewhere on the front page in clear and large print. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Riva_ Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) Thanks for confirming it for me guys. I really had a hard time finding out up to date info about it. More like open alpha. :P Well by IBM standards it can be considered a Beta now. Not that anybody cares about their naming rules anymore.But yeah, I generally feel a bit disappointed (more like sad) too, it isn't a full featured game yet. With all the abuse of "Open Beta" thing lately, I start to be strongly against it. Bot as gamer and game developer. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for devs like Digital Extremes, who seem honest, communicative and especially who are working on their 'hearth' project.But I would personally prefer to wait 2 more years and get a full featured game with enough content to keep me interested for a year, then getting (unknowingly) into a middle of another Beta, and then leaving soon after, a bit disappointed. Tabula rasa was a disappointment like that.Another one - that really got me pi**ed - was MechWarrior Online, as I was a huge fan of old MechWarrior games. Warframe actually was a lot of fun. It imho is a really well made game. Only with a little content, both environment and especially missions variability. With the second one I don't really understand, because it takes couple of hours of any junior level designer \ scripter to create a new mission. 1st hand experience. You can in theory have dozens of them inside a week. Still we have 4, very basic ones, with couple of clones with different names :-.Huh, a wall of text. Sorry for that. Yea it is, and it actually does say so. On the login screen in the upper right hand corner you can see it. http://imgur.com/SNHrHcY Thanks for the pointer (and even a screen cap !). I had the feeling I might have missed it somewhere ;) Is it just me or it really looks like DE doesn't really want to advertise its Beta much ? ;) While it is technically displayed (but only once you reach the login screen, meaning you've already taken the time to install the game) DE should really be displaying that it's in beta somewhere on the front page in clear and large print. I absolutely agree ! Edited January 30, 2014 by _Riva_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NalkorRN Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 ..I was wondering since DE doesn't seem to really display it anywhere (anymore?). Plus, on a side note, if this is a Beta, is there a date when they expect to reach a 'true release' ? It's going to remain in beta forever because DE knows that the beta tag acts as a shield to protect against criticism. It's done a lot these days, it's kinda sickening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Riva_ Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) Well I kind of admire DE (as a fellow developer), so I tend to not look at them as somebody trying to 'scheme' us or a liars. But yeah, I think a lot of devs and publishers do that. Either for what you say or so they can get their game tested by players, and let the players even pay for it !But for DE, for all it matter they can keep the Beta status forever if they care, as long as the game doesn't feel like Beta, right ? ;) Edited January 30, 2014 by _Riva_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brynslustafir Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I don't even know anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_Redwire Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Personally I am drawn towards games in Beta, especially when they're F2P. Maybe it's just a personal tendency, but I think making sure to send a clear and well advertised message to let people who are interested in the game know that it's technically in Beta will actually attract more traffic rather than less. I'm not an expert on that by any means, so perhaps DE has data that proves otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Riva_ Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 Personally I am drawn towards games in Beta, especially when they're F2P. Im kind of curious. Can you say what exactly is the interesting thing in it for you ? The Beta, the F2P, .. ? I mean I understand why Closed Betas are so popular. People are excited about new game and want to get a peek at it as soon as possible. Plus its cool to get into Closed beta, while most of people wount etc. Its not very interesting for me. I had enough of semi-functional alphas and betas as a dev, for rest of my life :) So I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_Redwire Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Im kind of curious. Can you say what exactly is the interesting thing in it for you ? The Beta, the F2P, .. ? The Beta part. Generally I know that the game will be under a consistent amount of change while it's in said state, and I enjoy watching as a game grows along the course of its evolution from a cluttered mess to an enticing product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent_of_Change Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Yup, and it will remain so until such time as DE says it's not. Because, at the end, of the day DE is the final and only arbiter of the state of the games development. As was mentioned you can see the status in the login screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tails-san Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Technically, yes, it's still a beta, though generally, there isn't that much of a significant difference between beta and full release for a free-to-play MMO, as long as it still has developers assigned to it after release. The biggest point is that while in beta, it doesn't receive professional critic reviews. For a game that can periodically expand and change drastically, this aspect does have significance. Critics generally only review a game once, and never change that review, no matter how much the game itself has changed after release, so the beta label protects the game from potentially getting a poor review score, and forever being cursed by it, even if they fix everything that caused that rating to be so low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Riva_ Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) The Beta part. Generally I know that the game will be under a consistent amount of change while it's in said state, and I enjoy watching as a game grows along the course of its evolution from a cluttered mess to an enticing product. Yep, I can absolutely relate to that. Well said ! The biggest point is that while in beta, it doesn't receive professional critic reviews. For a game that can periodically expand and change drastically, this aspect does have significance. Critics generally only review a game once, and never change that review, no matter how much the game itself has changed after release, so the beta label protects the game from potentially getting a poor review score, and forever being cursed by it, even if they fix everything that caused that rating to be so low. Thats right. I'll just clarify. There's a .."tag" for a title, specified by developer / publisher, called "reviewable". Eg. if a title is marked as "Beta - reviewable" or "good for review" or something like that, then (obviously) developers give reviewers a free hand to review (and criticize) it. And that was the case for Warframe already some time last year. And there are a lot of (quite average) reviews for it online. http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/warframe (So much for 'criticism shield' I guess ;) Edited January 30, 2014 by _Riva_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grulos Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Yes, but kinda no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koopatastic Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Just don't worry, a beta can be better and better in no time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Riva_ Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 Even if I agreed with you, and I'm sorry but I don't, the problem I see Warframe might have is that I kind of don't see myself returning after 6 months to check if theres a 'real' game there now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shifted Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) Many games use the "beta" tag as an excuse to protect themselves from reviewing, however Warframe has the case twisted around, in a way. Instead of being a theoretically complete game that opens up the cash shop and starts getting some income while fixing minor stuff (like most of games in "beta" tag), Warframe has been called a beta, opened up the shop and pours content into it while still being arguably on even alpha levels with some features. I know making money is important so content that generates money must be developed, but goddamnit there's so many things that need to be added and they've been missing from the game for MONTHS. In result we get this mess of a diamond in the rough: The core of the game is solid and fun, but it's lacking all the additional things that make a game great, and DE is stuck in this mess of having to make money and also improve the game. And what are those you ask? Take a look at the suggestions forum, or just think of the first thing coming to mind that fits the description of: "I really need it" "It's not overcomplicated" "It doesn't mess with existing features" "It's easy to make" And there's tons of things like that. Edited January 30, 2014 by Shifted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NalkorRN Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Yep, I can absolutely relate to that. Well said ! Thats right. I'll just clarify. There's a .."tag" for a title, specified by developer / publisher, called "reviewable". Eg. if a title is marked as "Beta - reviewable" or "good for review" or something like that, then (obviously) developers give reviewers a free hand to review (and criticize) it. And that was the case for Warframe already some time last year. And there are a lot of (quite average) reviews for it online. http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/warframe (So much for 'criticism shield' I guess ;) I never said the shield was perfect, not by a long shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Riva_ Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 I wasn't arguing with you when I wrote that. Just kind of rephrased you ;)I thought you ment more of a shield against players criticism anyway (?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NalkorRN Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I wasn't arguing with you when I wrote that. Just kind of rephrased you ;) I thought you ment more of a shield against players criticism anyway (?) I meant towards both professional critics and player critics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Riva_ Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) Instead of being a theoretically complete game that opens up the cash shop and starts getting some income while fixing minor stuff (like most of games in "beta" tag), Warframe has been called a beta, opened up the shop and pours content into it while still being arguably on even alpha levels with some features. I know making money is important so content that generates money must be developed, but goddamnit there's so many things that need to be added and they've been missing from the game for MONTHS. In result we get this mess of a diamond in the rough: The core of the game is solid and fun, but it's lacking all the additional things that make a game great, and DE is stuck in this mess of having to make money and also improve the game. Well I imagine it went like this.. The owners / top managers of DE (along with rest of DE) made some solid money on previous commercial titles. They decided (based on their own words) they want, for a change, work on something they really like. We should admire them for that, because not everybody with well established company would say good bye to safe path of future profits to follow his dream. So they put together a bit of their personal money and put together what became Warframe Open Beta at start of 2013. It wasn't much, from what I read. Just one environment, couple of Grineer enemies, couple of Warframes, gui and platinum store. Even like that though it might have easily cost several mil of their personal dollars in server hardware and whatnots, propagation and possibly wages for most of the team - if the team was paid as if working on any other commercial project. In 2013 they decided they invested enough and waited long enough and released the game stub to the public as F2P. In between they got some money back via Founders program, which might have given them back what they originally invested. (MechWarrior Online Founders program grossed over 5mil usd.) Since then they are slowly working on upgrading the game into .. I really don't know what. :) Maybe they don't know either. And they keep on sustaining the dev team and the online game on platinum store sales. All the above is pure speculation on the little publicly known data. Why they choose to start with so little content ? Why it takes them so long to create additional (graphic) content, why they choose to add tons of frames and weapons instead of real content the game desperately needs (like environments, levels and missions and generally AAA game content) ? Why Steve Sinclair originally choose not to put any story into the game at all, and it remains the same to this day ? We can only wonder. ;) Edited January 31, 2014 by _Riva_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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