Dear De... Please Make It Stop

[Legion-Shields]

The Grineer can be hollowed out. They won't have a unified front to attack. Their troops are decaying.

 

Or we can reason with them. Grineer have not backstabbed us once. They maybe brutal and warriors, but they know we can layeth the smacketh down, too. Ban on the unspoken threat and negotiate.

so you are also considering that they be wiped out? Noted.

 

As to reasoning with them, that would require forcing them to accept us as worthy of our own rights and property. Basically you might as well educate them. Something that can be done without killing off the corpus.

 

I understand that removing their leadership without notice would continue to drive the chaos  for a while, but the all-powerful tenno ought to be able to administer organization among multiple isolated spots who steadily expand toward each other, wiping out the "badlands" and imposing a peaceful order permamently, one that is handed off to the Civilians along with something akin to the Magna Carta (in historical effect).  Tenno can go back to living like human beings, everbody else can live without fear.

 

I don't see how taking medicine for the symptoms can justify putting up with the sickness for eternity.

Edited February 4, 2014 by Legion-Shields

[General_Krull]

so you are also considering that they be wiped out? Noted.

 

As to reasoning with them, that would require forcing them to accept us as worthy of our own rights and property. Basically you might as well educate them. Something that can be done without killing off the corpus.

 

I understand that removing their leadership without notice would continue to drive the chaos  for a while, but the all-powerful tenno ought to be able to administer organization among multiple isolated spots who steadily expand toward each other, wiping out the "badlands" and imposing a peaceful order permamently, one that is handed off to the Civilians along with something akin to the Magna Carta.  Tenno can go back to living like human beings, everbody else can live without fear.

 

I don't see how taking medicine for the symptoms can justify putting up with the sickness for eternity.

I know right, just look how unreasonable Ruk is in this message.

 

[Legion-Shields]

I know right, just look how unreasonable Ruk is in this message.

 

Reminds me of the Krogan from Mass Effect.

[DJ_Redwire]

I know right, just look how unreasonable Ruk is in this message.

 

-snip-

 

To be fair, he says "It celebrates your glory. It honors your victory."

 

Yet it's a statue of him. :P

[Legion-Shields]

To be fair, he says "It celebrates your glory. It honors your victory."

 

Yet it's a statue of him. :P

 he's honoring the Tenno's prowess in combat. Violence is what he's glorifying.

Edited February 4, 2014 by Legion-Shields

[General_Krull]

To be fair, he says "It celebrates your glory. It honors your victory."

 

Yet it's a statue of him. :P

 

 he's honoring the Tenno's prowess in combat. Violence is what he's glorifying.

Are you saying Ruk isn't a bro? We have to fight now.

[Ced23Ric]

Sargas Ruk is a xenophobe known for his hate for everything non-Grineer, ladies and gentlemen.

 

Now tell me again how we could not appeal to warrior's honour here.

[Serialkillerwhale]

Look, I'll just simplify my objective point.

 

The grineer won't last.

 

If we destroy the corpus for the grineer, and they desolve, we've thrown the entire world into chaos.

 

Or is that exactly what lotus wants?

Ruk is a madman

 

The Corpus lack compassion, or any passion aside from greed, to form a culture that supports people. The Grineer lack compassion, but not passion. We are at the impasse where we have wrath and greed, and miss love. And the Tenno are neither. The Tenno are a force undriven by any motivation.

They lack foresight, they lack conscious. the Grineer would simply see all others die.

 

Theirs is a culture of hate, that much is very flatly stated by DE.

 

Sargas Ruk is a xenophobe known for his hate for everything non-Grineer, ladies and gentlemen.

 

Now tell me again how we could not appeal to warrior's honour here.

He sees you as servants, outright calls you as such.

 

I see no honor in calling those who find you a useful ally your servants, would the US and USSR thus be "Servants" of britain or france in WWII?

 

The corpus have the underlying culture, which albeit crueler than ours, is still one that can support society, rather than being a massive military invasion all the time.

 

There is no way siding with the grineer can end in peace.

 

There is a way siding with the corpus can.

[Hydrium]

I've long since stopped playing Warframe but man the forums are worth the Prime/Founders cost for its entertainment.

 

DEs design choices continue to amuse me greatly.

[Legion-Shields]

Sargas Ruk is a xenophobe known for his hate for everything non-Grineer, ladies and gentlemen.

 

Now tell me again how we could not appeal to warrior's honour here.

Disappointing. Respond to my last reply. I can still read this thread you know.

[Oriviagene]

I'm siding with lotus and follow her order, without her tenno wouldn't awaken anyway

I'm just using grineer and corpus to strengthen my warframe :/

Isn't that what we do everyday?

[-CdG-Revo]

You know... If it was reversed on the corpus and the grineer was wiped... They would have a civil war for profits #NoPeace

[Kaokasalis]

I do wonder if the Grineer would break into petty infighting if we assassinated the twin Queens.

[NetSlayer]

I don't think you understand...

It's the Grineer.

[CephalonShy]

I don't think you understand...

It's the Grineer.

[General_Krull]

 

I don't think you understand...

It's the Grineer.

 

More pls

[Legion-Shields]

Ew X(

[Legion-Shields]

I do wonder if the Grineer would break into petty infighting if we assassinated the twin Queens.

Thats expected and has already been assessed. All you have to do is argue that the resulting conflict wouldn't be resolvable.

[Serialkillerwhale]

How does rhino putting on lotus's hat as a gag ruin a thread?

[DuRockBR]

Very well then.

 

The Grineer are soldiers. They are stricken by genetic detoriation that makes them more aggressive, but ultimately, even these brutes have a culture of honour, pride, obedience, structure and duty. They do as ordered, and they do have diplomatic corps, scientists and protect a civilian populace from the Infested and the Corpus. While they do have a less-fortunate labour class, and while there are individuals among the Grineer which clearly violate what we would call "moral", as a while, the Grineer are distorted warrior "race".

You can reason with them, they respect martial prowess and they uphold their agreements without resentment.

 

The Corpus are merchants. Everything has a price. They are all to eager to expel one of their own to leave for the mob with torches and pitchforks so they can get away. They don't enslave, they indoctrinate and manipulate their work force, in an industrialized scheme. Any problem they face they try to solve with money or proxies, not having the will to fight themselves. The few that end up on the battlefield are frightened of the air around them. While it was Salad Five who cut up the Tenno to auction them off, ask yourself - who was buying? Other Corpus. The entire faction consists of greedy, treacherous coin counters. During Operation Arid Fear, the Corpus jacked up prices so high, the Grineer felt compelled to even the odds by fighting against that extortion. The Tenno came to the rescue of the Corpus world of Mars, but the Corpus had a plan for that as well. By handing the Tenno some second grade ammo conversion mods, they thought their debts paid off.

 

It goes on. Internally, they laughed about how easy the stupid Tenno could be bought with that nigh-on worthless tech. And in contact with the Tenno, their upholding of the deal was begrudingly, full of contempt. Even giving that tech that was known as minor if not weak pained the money hoarders. There was no thanks, no sense of honour or due gratitude for saving their Mars installations.

 

At every step of "allied" Corpus/Tenno interaction, the Corpus made sure to come out better than, relatively, the Tenno. The Tenno are and remain a source for technology for the Corpus, sometimes used for parts, sometimes used for mercenary service - not for reasons of defense of people, but of defense of profits. The Corpus have no morally sound motivations, and have no qualms about it. Nef Anyo is a hunter who sells Tenno in pods that he found hidden. Aladdin Wee sells Tenno who are chopped up alive. The other Corpus bosses in the background oversee indoctrinations and are busy backstabbing each other, for their own gains.

 

The Grineer on the other hand concentrate on things like fixing their broken genome, collecting artifacts, expanding their empire, securing resources, and retaking Earth to live there, where they come from. Their reasons are emotional and not for one's benefit, but for the benefit of their entire faction. Leaders take great risks to further an agenda that helps their people, not just themselves. Their methods are crude, their reactions violent, but their motivations are a lot more pure than those of the Corpus.

 

• Ever since I was ordered to kill Captain Vor, an old, obsessed man. Why - for having Orokin technology, and no other reason, I felt sorry.

• When I was ordered to kill Tyl Regor because he was repairing his people, I felt sorry.

• Then I was ordered to assassinate Sargas Ruk, an artifact hunter. He did not hunt me. Just pieces of the past. And when I sided with him during the Gravidus Dilemma, Sargas Ruk, one of the most proclaimed xenophobes of the upper echelons of the Grineer, thanked me, acknowledged my combat prowess and extended an olive branch.

• Councilor Vay Hek, a diplomat, was on my list of targets, too. The Lotus ordered me here to hinder communication between Grineer and Tenno/Corpus. Why? Why silence the voices, even if corrupt, who could solve conflicts without bloodshed? They have diplomats, at least!

• The Lotus sent me to assassinate Kela De Thaym, too. She told me that killing her would bring stability to the system - by creating a power vacuum in the Grineer council. How do infighting, chaos and power struggles of a warrior race benefit anyone, if not the suppliers, such as the Corpus? I felt sorry. Kela was a warrior like me, and when I killed her, I wished I could have given her a more honourable death. Or none at all.

• Lech Kril. Lieutenant Lech Kril is a decorated warhero. Grineer look up to him, revere him. He is part of stories and anecdotes, and a powerful, honourable warrior. Lech Kril does not use subterfuge or manipulation, only brute force and cunning. He does not hide. I killed him, and made him a martyr. I wish I could have allied with him and rid the galaxy of the Corpus.

That is not all, though.

 

The Corpus, on the other hand, have none of those shining personalities. Only oily snakes, and those despise us Tenno. Every single one. And not only are the Corpus an envious, squinting group of selfish folks, they are also the bigger threat, in the long run. "But why, Ced, clearly, the Grineer are the more martial faction!" - Yes. But the Grineer don't have armies of robots that are sent to kill all opponents. You cannot reason with a robot. Robots have programs and parley, situational ceasefire and negotiations are not part of that program. The Corpus send their proxies because they do not want to get their hands dirty. And they keep churning out more robots.

 

"But, muh balance!"

 

Let's run a tally here real quick.

• Fusion Moa Event - Tenno destroy thousands of Fusion Moas, yet do not significantly impact the spread of the new proxy.

• Informer Event - Tenno hunt down Grineer drones, and to this day, these drones are limited in presence.

• The Tenno interfere with the Corpus/Grineer struggle over racketeering resource price, destroy many Fomorians, crippling the Grineer fleet.

• Tenno hunt down a handful of Corpus scouts, and reveal the Grineer settlement of Phobos, only to raid it mercilessly following the revelation.

• The Gravidus Dilemma - the majority of Tenno sides with the Grineer and ... has them gain a tiny foothold, but save fellow Tenno. The Corpus slice up Tenno regardless, the Grineer losing uncount men in the war effort hindered by traitor Tenno.

• Following after, the Tenno clean up Infested for the Corpus, which then in turn toss Alad V under the bus as payment, in attempts to get rid of a problem.

• On Earth, the Tenno descend on the Grineer again, who try to edge out their overgrown homeplanet and repopulate a world lost to vegetation. Tenno sabotage their machinery and kill Grineer by the thousands, merely trying to recolonize their home.

• Tenno then do nothing in particular - just some Corpus drones happen to drop a new material. No greater Corpus interests are disturbed.

Event outcomes negative for the Corpus: 1

Event outcomes positive for the Corpus: 2,5 (Gravidus)

 

Event outcomes negative for the Grineer: 4

Event outcomes positive for the Grineer: 0,5 (Gravidus)

 

Balance this.

 

Saying that Grineers are the moral choice in this context is like saying the Nazis were right, as they fought for the greater good of their faction. "Nazis" FTW? I think not.

Corpus in this context, more like the capitalist governments nowadays.

[Ced23Ric]

Saying that Grineers are the moral choice in this context is like saying the Nazis were right, as they fought for the greater good of their faction. "Nazis" FTW? I think not.

Corpus in this context, more like the capitalist governments nowadays.

 

Alad V is a Space-Mengele. Prove me wrong.

 

(You can't.)

[lautalocos]

when is this thread going to get locked for being derailed?

[General_Krull]

Saying that Grineers are the moral choice in this context is like saying the Nazis were right, as they fought for the greater good of their faction. "Nazis" FTW? I think not.

Corpus in this context, more like the capitalist governments nowadays.

Capitalist governments brainwash work force, kidnap people of other kinds and do experiments on them and dissect them and blatantly try to rip off other (extremely dangerous warlike) nations? Friend, capitalism isn't perfect but I don't think it's that bad.

[Temfist]

More Grineer nodes = less Grineer invasions, since Grineer can only invade Corpus nodes.

 

More Grineer nodes = more Corpus invasions, since they have more targets.

 

DE has more player friendly ways to aid that like putting up Orokin Cells and other desirable loot for pay on the Corpus side.

 

 

Problem will fix itself.

No drastic action needed.

not to mention, we may even see greater rewards from the Corpus in the future, which will be....rewarding!

 

that said, I've already got my Detron and scans of Harvester, I'm back to team greed baby. gimme meh milk.

Edited February 7, 2014 by Temphis

[MajorWreck]

JUST STOP! You introduce a new resource that can only be garnered by dispatching Corpus Osprey, the area where these can be found is shrinking by the day, please change tact, making the masses support Grineer is unbalancing the game. As solar arbiters it seems objectionable to be forced to side with one faction to gain a frankly ordinary weapon. Also the harvester is a pussy cat, what sort of challenge do you think it represents, it is not in the same league as Zanuka, neither is a patch on the revamped Stalker. Why do you have to get parts of the Detron, but you get single bp for Stalker gear? Makes no sense other than you are actively trying to wipe out Corpus as the masses fight against the RNG drops for the parts of the weapon.

 

This tact of encouraging this lopsided Grineer support started with the Gradivus and has not stopped since. A system that is entirely populated by Grineer is not FUN. You remove the Infested and intent on removing Corpus too it seems, are they going to be roaming around randomly popping up but ultimately getting annihilated.