Anyone Else Think That The Elite Lancers On Earth Hit A Bit Too Hard?

[Mak_Gohae]

I was just doing the first mission on earth solo with a Valkyr rank 7 with 190 shields and these dude were stripping me totally plus massive health damage at range very quickly.  Faster than the Troopers with their shotguns that i think should be doing this job. Plus the fact that they make up about half of the troops and they blend in with the other lancers makes them kind of deadly.

[Deidaku]

The frontier units seem even stronger than the ones on saturn and phobos.... (proportionally , earth is the 3rd planet , it's pretty hard for new players I think) 

[Guest]

Well, Valkyr does have awful shields. I was just running Oro solo to fill up a bit my Codex, train my Carrier and check out the toxin injectors (I missed Cicero), and I didn't feel the elites hit any much harder than the regulars do. Maybe use a tankier frame?

[Mak_Gohae]

Well, Valkyr does have awful shields. I was just running Oro solo to fill up a bit my Codex, train my Carrier and check out the toxin injectors (I missed Cicero), and I didn't feel the elites hit any much harder than the regulars do. Maybe use a tankier frame?

 

 

What rank and how much shields did you have?

[Guest]

What rank and how much shields did you have?

 

Nova 30, 510. Yes, it's much higher than what you were using, but since I was training my sentinel (I solo, so the bugger doesn't gain exp when I do the killing) and filling the Codex I was just running around without shooting at all, keeping an eye on the shield bar to know when to duck behind cover. That's why I say I didn't feel like the Elites were sapping my shields faster than the ones in Saturn or Phobos, as Deidaku suggested, even when I had to get pretty close and personal so my sentinel would actually shoot them, and I often stood in the middle of a hail of bullets trying to scan a Trooper.

 

BTW, by your post count I'd assume you've already advanced quite a bit in WF, so I kinda don't get why you were having trouble on Earth... were you just ranking up your Valkyr?

[Mak_Gohae]

Nova 30, 510. Yes, it's much higher than what you were using, but since I was training my sentinel (I solo, so the bugger doesn't gain exp when I do the killing) and filling the Codex I was just running around without shooting at all, keeping an eye on the shield bar to know when to duck behind cover. That's why I say I didn't feel like the Elites were sapping my shields faster than the ones in Saturn or Phobos, as Deidaku suggested, even when I had to get pretty close and personal so my sentinel would actually shoot them, and I often stood in the middle of a hail of bullets trying to scan a Trooper.

 

BTW, by your post count I'd assume you've already advanced quite a bit in WF, so I kinda don't get why you were having trouble on Earth... were you just ranking up your Valkyr?

 

I wasnt having trouble i am just asking what other folks think about this.

Like i said in the OP, i had a rank 7 Valkyr with 190 shield which is bit higher than the average for most frames at rank 7 plus none of my weapons had Orokin Catalyst.  For folks going through this for the first time i think this might be a bit annoying. And i think they also do slash proc with their weapons.

[Guest]

I wasnt having trouble i am just asking what other folks think about this.

Like i said in the OP, i had a rank 7 Valkyr with 190 shield which is bit higher than the average for most frames at rank 7 plus none of my weapons had Orokin Catalyst.  For folks going through this for the first time i think this might be a bit annoying. And i think they also do slash proc with their weapons.

 

You've got a point. Also, not only do the Elite's Hind cause bleed, there are also Eviscerators around Earth.

I can't say how hard it'll be for the newer players, hard to know after all the time I've been playing, but I think we'd see more threads about it by the rookies if it actually was the case. Though I reckon the game is actually rather hard until you get your hands on Redirection and the damage mods. I might just try and run it with no mods and no sentinel, if only for the good old days.

[Neutralred]

I can't say how hard it'll be for the newer players, hard to know after all the time I've been playing, but I think we'd see more threads about it by the rookies if it actually was the case.

 

Point of order: the rookies don't know the forum exists, and have no incentive to post and be ridiculed/ignored rather than just moving on to another game.

 

Damage of the grineer on earth does seem way out of whack. I introduced a couple of friends to the game this weekend. They progressed really quickly until Eurasia, where the Eviscerators and elites can kill even a much higher level frame with their bleed procs, much less direct damage.

 

I tried helping them out with the mission, but figured that somehow they were scaling based on my 'frame - these things hit *hard*, even on a 30. I do think that the grineer later on saturn are easier - was playing there at the time, and they don't seem to do nearly as much damage.

 

It might be that new players are just giving up at that point. It certainly didn't sound like my buddies were enjoying themselves over Mumble.

[Guest]

Point of order: the rookies don't know the forum exists, and have no incentive to post and be ridiculed/ignored rather than just moving on to another game.

 

Damage of the grineer on earth does seem way out of whack. I introduced a couple of friends to the game this weekend. They progressed really quickly until Eurasia, where the Eviscerators and elites can kill even a much higher level frame with their bleed procs, much less direct damage.

 

I tried helping them out with the mission, but figured that somehow they were scaling based on my 'frame - these things hit *hard*, even on a 30. I do think that the grineer later on saturn are easier - was playing there at the time, and they don't seem to do nearly as much damage.

 

It might be that new players are just giving up at that point. It certainly didn't sound like my buddies were enjoying themselves over Mumble.

 

Woah wait, I can understand it if my having progressed through the game when Bleed proc didn't exist made it much easier for me, but you're making me feel like an alien for assuming an online game would have a forum, not to mention a Wiki, and preferring to ask questions and risk ridicule rather than staying an ignorant. Is the majority of gamers these days really that lazy and shy?

 

But back to the point, the problem seems to be the bleed proc the Eviscerators and Elites deal. Many here on the forums seem to agree that bleed needs to be toned down a bit. However, the second poster stated that Frontier units were hitting harder than those on Phobos. That's what I disagree with, since I can't really know how hard Earth would be for a newcomer, because if one thing I'm sure of is that I've died from bleed with full shields on Phobos a few times, but never on Earth.

 

If you're saying the Earth troops should be toned down a bit so newer players don't have such a hard time, then I can agree, to a point: sooner or later the difficulty is gonna ramp up for them, anyway. IMO we should try and get the bleed proc fixed first, and see if it makes life easier in the Frontier.

[Neutralred]

Maybe I should have said that newbies likely avoid the forums, as game forums are generally cesspits of despair and ridicule. See: WoW forums, old GW forums, MW forums, etc. Warframe's forums are actually fairly civil. Asking simple questions or bringing up "this is hard for new players" in any of those just results in a barrage of "you are bad and should feel bad", without any examination of the point. Experiences like this tend to lead players away from posting issues on forums. Gamers as a community tend to be elitist and prideful - and yes, that pride is part of what would prevent them from posting for help and having to endure the above.

 

This is pretty much my opinion from observation, though. Grain of salt, etc.

 

Deidaku stated that the units on earth hit harder than those on Phobos, and qualified it as proportional - which I took to mean that they hit harder for the expected gear level/mods that a new player will have available compared to one in Phobos. I'd say that this is absolutely, without reservation true. Even their base damage seems much higher than the units on Saturn - a solo extermination on Earth saw me being bounced around by rockets and having to cover to recharge shields. On a planet several steps back from where I was comfortably progressing! It really does seem a bit rough to expect newer players to deal with this.

 

Darkly hilarious given that the update 12 preview had one of the developers mentioning "a lot of stuff that'll make things better for new players".

[Krystalmyth]

Leveling a brand new frame on earth, excited to see it's content, I got absolutely hammered doing defense on Lith. They murdered the cryopod each time due to the way the map basically creates a billion chokepoints for grineer to enter the main hub and fire with impunity. They also hit ridiculously hard. I had an easier time training my weapons on Olympus.

[Mak_Gohae]

 However, the second poster stated that Frontier units were hitting harder than those on Phobos. That's what I disagree with, since I can't really know how hard Earth would be for a newcomer, because if one thing I'm sure of is that I've died from bleed with full shields on Phobos a few times, but never on Earth.

 

If you're saying the Earth troops should be toned down a bit so newer players don't have such a hard time, then I can agree, to a point: sooner or later the difficulty is gonna ramp up for them, anyway. IMO we should try and get the bleed proc fixed first, and see if it makes life easier in the Frontier.

 

The Frontier Elites (Earth) use the Karak while all other elites use the Hind.

The thing that seems to be the reason for the damage difference is the weapon.

[Monolake]

Leveling a brand new frame on earth, excited to see it's content, I got absolutely hammered doing defense on Lith. They murdered the cryopod each time due to the way the map basically creates a billion chokepoints for grineer to enter the main hub and fire with impunity. They also hit ridiculously hard. I had an easier time training my weapons on Olympus.

This is true! I'v just tried it and we lost when all players wondered off and the pod was killed in a blink as if it was a lvl30 defence! Im not even sure if it has to do more with map layout or lack of pod HP relative to the enemies damage. 

 

Earth really needs some rebalancing for new players.

[AzyWng]

Bear in mind that this is the Grineer Homeworld. For RP purposes, Of course they'd have lots of training and stats and good guns/other weapons.

 

On the other hand, I too, am having problems (Lvl 30 Volt) staying alive with these Hellish Hellions (Har Har, PLUS alliteration*4) and the Grineer Eviscerators (Which seem intent on piercing my shields [somehow] and bleeding me out FROM THE INSIDE)...

 

Ya think this is what the Lotus meant when she said the Grineer would grow even stronger? (Remember the Gradivus Dilemma?)

[Xylia]

I remember the days of leveling Oberon up during Cicero Crisis (Same mobs, same level roughly) and damn... ONE good sawblade to the face was enough to nearly kill him.

 

If it weren't for Renewal I probably would have blown at least two revives on a couple of those runs. I actually did die once when I ran into one around the corner, immediately turned to run away from him and a stupid Hellion gets me in the back with a couple rockets while I was scrambling to get away form the stupid sawblade man.

 

Oberon, at the time, I was geared for max health and max shields, I remember having 500 Health and 400 Shields or thereabouts (was like Lv10-15 at the time). This all happened in the matter of, what, 5-6 seconds? Simply ridiculous.

 

And this is while I was using weapons that could kill them in seconds. It only takes a single Eviscerator hiding in a pipe to ruin your day and ruin it fast. Or a couple guys with Karaks 50m away hiding behind some rocks.

 

This sort of stuff should not be happening on a newbie planet. IMO, Venus should lead to Saturn, and Saturn should lead to Earth at this point.

 

And let's not say anything about Farking REGULATORS.

 

The mobs are bad enough alone.

 

Get a Regulator tucked in behind a bunch of crap you can't get to, and you got a roomful of angry Grineer that can one-shot you with the Regulator buff up. Or those new cheap Leader Units... yeah, let's insta-drain all energy out of everybody in a huge radius, or set everybody on fire from 20 meters away. That's nice.

Edited February 11, 2014 by Xylia

[Gaizokubanou]

As a new player (played months ago but only for like an hour, and restarted since yesterday) my experience with Earth's is just awful.  It is leaving a very bad impression of the game because it looks like a completely intended pay wall so that new players like me are encouraged to buy weapons with money or just suffer.

 

I mean this is a planet before I can even begin to farm to make new weapons... the tease, the frustration, this just doesn't look like an innocent mistake.

[Neutralred]

it looks like a completely intended pay wall so that new players like me are encouraged to buy weapons with money or just suffer.

 

This right here. I bought some plat on reaching mastery 2 so that I could trade for a Serration, but if I'd had the same experience I would have assumed it was another money-grubbing pay2win and walked away by Earth.

[Mak_Gohae]

AAAAAAAAND Earth was adjusted.

 

Im going to give it a try when i get Zephyr done to see how much was changed. I didnt really have a problem with the eviscerators so i am more interested in the other changes.