shut Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 there is no pay to win in a PvE game xD. Play a bit of Vindictus and Maplestory. I'll be damned if you don't reconsider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherIcarus Posted February 21, 2014 Author Share Posted February 21, 2014 (edited) I don't think you know what pay2win really is, otherwise you'd understand why it's terrible. There isn't any in Warframe, anyway. I just love these types of comments, well I mean hate. If you are not going to read the OP then do not post a reply. Edited February 21, 2014 by BrotherIcarus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sewens Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 (edited) Putting it in a context: It's like if a country paid to win the Olympics. No one else would respect them and the ones that worked hard to win would naturally get mad. Pay2win exists games with a goal if there's a way to get directly to the goal faster that can only be attained with real money. It's easy to see in competitive PVP games where players move slowly, the best guns cost real money, and the goal is basically to feel like a "pro" and get many kills. Spotting it is murkier in games where the goal isn't competitive. EDIT: Let me add and clarify. I think DE has done a good job of keeping a balance between making money on weapon and frame content and releasing it. The store has pay2win features but keeps itself from being called pay2win because it never limits what the player can earn. The problem is that they focus too much on this to actually develop and grow the game itself, making the game a big complicated cash shop with a TPS in the back of the store. Edited February 21, 2014 by sewens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiegraf Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Let's say you're playing any sort of generic shooter out there turned into a P2W game. You start off with a pistol and a knife; by playing, you can get an assault rifle after something like 2 hours of gameplay. After playing for 4 months, you have a pretty decent arsenal of shotguns, snipers, rifles and the likes without paying a buck. Awesome right? Well, you get into a match and one guy on the other team has an automatic grenade launcher with 20 shot capacity, a pistol with auto-lock on and can call in a tank/helicopter twice a match. But you never could do that! That's awesome! So you ask how the guy got it after the end of the match. "Oh, you just need to play 20$ for the launcher, 20$ for the pistol and 30$ for the tank and heli." "But how do I get those by playing?" you ask. "You can't; you can only buy them with real cash." he responds. --- While it's not (always) that extreme, that's pretty much what Pay2Win is : it allows players to buy stuff that outperforms the regular, freely obtainable gear. This means giving those players a direct advantage against other players which is monetized. Stuff like XP boosters, currency boosters and purchasing the weapons you could unlock through regular play isn't Pay2Win, it's "pay for convenience". If you really can't see the problem with Pay2Win, I really don't want to ever play in anything competitive with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noveltyhero Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 try and find good decent non-laggy PUG PvP game pls. u won't be able to find even 1 most of the time. Counter Strike 1.6, runs on virtually every machine made past 1998 and its an extremely good game, hence why it launched off the Counter Strike series, even now its being played in certain competitive events and the player base is enormous, it is a master piece of a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izzatuw Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Play any FPS F2P. = New player only gets 50-100 coins per win, each weapon cost 5000 even for the weakest one. Which will force you to use your real money to just buy it like that... WF = Game that gives you the option to use plats, but the fun thing is if you're willing to. If not you can just try to max mods and sell them. Personally if I could buy plats I'd use it on slots and color palettes only. A frame exception to Booben. Like another guy said Plats are just a convenience, if you can get them, go ahead buy slots, cosmetics whatever. But... Unlike other games. Buying things with plats doesn't make you any better than the people that have the same things by grinding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flaming_Snake Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 I personally think that it makes S#&$ players better, while they're actually still S#&$ and call for buffs. And it makes already awesome players, unstoppable so people call for nerfs. My 2c. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izzatuw Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Counter Strike 1.6, runs on virtually every machine made past 1998 and its an extremely good game, hence why it launched off the Counter Strike series, even now its being played in certain competitive events and the player base is enormous, it is a master piece of a game. I want a CS sequel that has PS4 graphics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noveltyhero Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 I want a CS sequel that has PS4 graphics I want a CS sequel on Source 2.0, graphics are good in CS:GO so no complaint there, I would say that if one thing needs improving in CS it is the texture quality and overall map design, needs a few more flanking routes. But CS is ok, other games do need overhauls though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WERElektro Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 (edited) P2W is simply unfair. nuff said. Calling a game free 2 play, while it's actually pay 2 win is also hypocrisy. I've experienced enough pay 2 win games to honestly say that this system sucks. It's better to let people pay for cosmetic stuff - this is not essential and works fine I think. And giving paying players the opportunity to build/ get their items faster is fine too. If you want players to pay, make them buy the game / pay a monthly fee ... it's still better than "NUH, my parent are// I am rich, I win" Edited February 21, 2014 by WEREsandrock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izzatuw Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 I want a CS sequel on Source 2.0, graphics are good in CS:GO so no complaint there, I would say that if one thing needs improving in CS it is the texture quality and overall map design, needs a few more flanking routes. But CS is ok, other games do need overhauls though. Yeah it's a perfectly balanced F2P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izzatuw Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 P2W is simply unfair. nuff said. Calling a game free 2 play, while it's actually pay 2 win is also hypocrisy. I've experienced enough pay 2 win games to honestly say that this system sucks. It's better to let people pay for cosmetic stuff - this is not essential and works fine I think. And giving paying players the opportunity to build/ get their items faster is fine too. If you want players to pay, make them buy the game / pay a monthly fee ... it's still better than "NUH, my parent are// I am rich, I win" Parents: Oh silly child you're poor as F^_^, we're rich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noveltyhero Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Yeah it's a perfectly balanced F2P. I don't think any of the Counter Strike games are free to play :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izzatuw Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 I don't think any of the Counter Strike games are free to play :/ I meant game, the topic was kind of auto-piloting my brain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noveltyhero Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 To OP, People hate pay to win because there is no equality for hard work, kind of like capitalism, why should a person who is rich dominate over somebody who doesn't have as much money? People need chances to prove themselves in skill and hard work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nefrai Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Good thing this game isn't pay to win, since owning stuff =/= winning. It just means you have more stuff. Oh no, the dude in my party can kill enemies faster than me, he won the game!! sigh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodywing Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 There is no P2W in Warframe. There is nothing to "win". You either play/wait/pay but in the end, everyone can access all the content in the game. Except for all the founder stuff which does not give any advantage at all in anyway. A lot of people in this community don't know what P2W is really like. I suggest to try out some of the F2P games out there. The most important is the experiece. What makes WF fun/not fun for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignaesia Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Warframe is more "pay to skip content" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luminati07 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 There is no pay to win in a PvE game xD. Yes there is. If DE released a gun that did 1000 damage, fired at 1000 RPM and had a 200 round magazine, that was only available with platinum, that sure as hell is pay to win. The idea that pay to win never exists in PvE is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodywing Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Warframe is more "pay to skip content" You are not skipping content, you still have to level them to 30/forma, etc. Nothing is skipped aside from acquisition time of content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvershadow66 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Are... Are ya' serious? You can't win, without throwing money at a screen. And yes, PVE can have P2W because people can get better stuff with paying, or in Warframe's case, way faster. Faster is not P2W. Consider the people who bought Zephyr and the new clan weapons, at best they got a 2 week headstart on gear that people can be using, for free, for months if not years. And once the initial hurdle of research is done new players will be able to get this new gear much more easily. A 2 week early access doesn't put us over halfway to U13 so its not "way faster". As to the OP's question P2W in a PvE game means content that can only be bought using cash, that means that players who do not pay cash are locked out of content completely. If Zephyr was only available for plat and could never be built with in game resources that would be the PVE version of P2W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semigod22 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 pvp is non existing in this game. that "so called pvp" is ultra bad. and cause of that. there is NO pay2win... same S#&$ as people that say hearthstone or other games are pay2win. IF ANYTHING its P2ST (pay 2 save time) nothing more. the only content DE released so far which u could ONLY get via money is "skana prime,lato prime,excalibur prime, dat prime syndana and titan extractors" ALL OTHER item u can get via playing. this whole topic is just another great example of this forum-community. full of weird and non sense topics after every patch. to 95% of them u just can laugh and check other things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvershadow66 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Warframe as you can theoretically get everything without paying a dime is not Pay to Win in the first definition but, if you apply the second definition it is as everything takes too long for any reasonable effort to mantain. Everything takes too long? That is one of the most ridiculous claims I have heard about Warframe. I have put 423 hours into this game and by the end of next week I will have every frame in the game and will have built enough weapons to hit Mastery 13 easily, with about 30 weapons that I like using sitting in my inventory. I have built tons of potatoes and forma and used them. My cash was spent to support DE because I like choice, its almost all gone on Slots, Colour Packs and a few boosters and potatoes. I have put far less time into this game than many others and yet have got much further (I have put 3-4 times that number of hours into 1 of my LOTRO characters over the past 5 years for example). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stupidfathobbit Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Everyone likes to have their own little special definition of "p2w" these days that conveniently doesn't fit whatever game they happen to be playing. However, consider the following: Warframe has no earlygame. It also really has no endgame. All that currently exists is really the "midgame" grind for weapons and warframes and primes. All regular warframes can be bought with plat. All regular weapons can be bought with plat. New Clantech weapons can now be bought with plat on the market. Forma and potatoes can be bought with plat. Max rank mods can be acquired with plat through trade (and much, much more cheaply now due to this week's fiasco) Prime parts can be acquired with plat through trade (and for far less effort than farming them up) There is essentially nothing in this game that cannot be bought with IRL currency at this point. When you compare it to TRULY free to play games that don't offer any ingame advantages such as Dota 2, Path of Exile, and Loadout, their model becomes rather indefensible. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin_Ein Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Paying to achieve a result and effectively circumvent the work required to acquire something is frowned upon even in real life. You absolutely have to understand this. It's not a matter of how good it is for the game, or for the game's economy. Those reason are just stipulations of "cause and effect". The true reason is that it spits in the face of hard and honest work. You effectively rob yourself of "the journey" by buying your way to "the answer". You learn little to nothing about what you're trying to do and you place yourself in an echelon of experienced people that have walked this journey by "legitimate" means. They are fortified with time and experience are literally masters of their craft, while you are just a newbie holding some of the most powerful weapons in the game. Granted this isnt always the case. Some may just be veteran players that couldnt get something after grinding forever and got jacked over by RNG. That's what this recent update was attempting to alleviate. However with this ability comes that social stigma. Now we dont know who is a wallet warrior or a veteran without looking at their profile or mastery rank. Dont get me wrong though, if you want to buy your way to greatness, whatever. Go for it, please. More money in the devs hands is always a good thing. Dosent mean i have to approve of what you use it for :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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