Tenno Clock, Discussions Of The Community [Youtube] (Ep 89)

[bejuizb]

Firstly, and most importantly, something that made my spleen explode: my name, or rather your attempts to say it. I'll help you out with phonetics.

 

bejuizb: be( as in be good) - joo( as in ju in juice) - iz (as in is) - b (as in buh). You can call me bej (as in hedge but with a b) as well. 

 

With that aside, let's get on to the episode. With the Sentients, well, I have the same exact concerns as Loz, but I've been told that I'm quite salty with regards to DE half-arseing most of the content, so I felt that it would be in my best interests to not break into a rant. Good to know that others share my concerns as well. 

 

Frankly, the community's exemplary of magpies. Shinies take priority, and I can't blame them. The game lacks depth and purpose, and the easiest solution seems to be to just grind through more content, which might explain the lack of concern regarding us as a community and the game itself not being ready for the Sentients (I'll stick to plurals. Doesn't seem to make grammatical sense to call an entire race by an adjective). 

 

With regards to the gameplay implications...well, I believe that they would indeed be the ultimate "endgame". The big bad wolf if you will. In the player's canonical progression, they might very well be the final hurdle to overcome. But something that kind of scares me...is what's after the Sentients? Once they're done for, do we just go back to the Grineer and Corpus butting heads and going back to the monotony of the Solar System? Or would there be a definitive end to the story of Warframe? 

[Calayne]

Loz makes a very interesting point regarding the Sentients being so powerful that they literally wiped out the most powerful civilization in history, and now that they're here, we basically sort-of don't quite stand a chance. Basically, we're screwed.

 

But it's kind of weird then, that they'd come back after so long, right? They were defeated, and after the Tenno went to sleep, then if they weren't already weakened to the point of being a negligible threat, then they'd have come right back and just blasted everything to smithereens, which sort of begs the question: Why ARE they doing this? 

 

I think the assumption Loz is making at the moment is that the Sentients will be the end-all of the Universe; Basically, the hardest faction in the game, and nothing else will be able to top this, because this is one large jump in the spectacle creep. It's a very good point, actually. You said potentially, we could work in the current system, flesh out all the other factions, which I heartily agree needs more love and exposure, and when we reach the pinnacle of our achievement, having basically begun to see the light at the end of this dark, dark tunnel, the Sentients come as the greatest enemy.

 

Well, good point. But I think in this case, the Sentients won't be the true final enemy. Maybe the sentients, like the Grineer Queens, the Corpus Board, and the Infested, are also part of this stepping stone to the apex of solar-system-wide domination. And maybe, just maybe, during this huge threat, all our enemies will actually have to combine forces, like a rag-tag band of misfit adventurers, out to save the world despite their differences. And during this time, we can actually find out more about them, and their command structure, and their culture, and what they're like when we're not actually shooting them. 

 

And when this threat is overcome, we'll all say "Yay!" amongst the bodies of our fallen comrades, and shuffle lazily home. 

 

Before we see another shadow. The Orokin have come back. Tombs of the Orokin, imagine that? 

 

They did say "Tombs of the Sentient", not "Massive Freaking Army of the Sentient". Tomb sort of implies they've been dead for a while. But who knows? I do see your point, Loz, on how much better it'll be if they fleshed out the current factions, but I think that they can make it work, too. As the pressure to cooperate more mounts, our enemies (or more like allies now) will have to share more and more about themselves. 

 

Ah well. It's all speculation, anyway.

[MDRLOz]

With regards to the gameplay implications...well, I believe that they would indeed be the ultimate "endgame". The big bad wolf if you will. In the player's canonical progression, they might very well be the final hurdle to overcome. But something that kind of scares me...is what's after the Sentients? Once they're done for, do we just go back to the Grineer and Corpus butting heads and going back to the monotony of the Solar System? Or would there be a definitive end to the story of Warframe? 

Well There are hints that the sentient come from a different solar system so we could go there and perhaps beyond. 

 

Also... as Calayne suggested

Orokin. 

They might actually make a better end game enemy from a plot point of view. 

They would be our creators and though not as strong as the sentients they would probably be better at coming up with a way of killing their own creations. 

 

 

Before we see another shadow. The Orokin have come back. Tombs of the Orokin, imagine that? 

 

They did say "Tombs of the Sentient", not "Massive Freaking Army of the Sentient". Tomb sort of implies they've been dead for a while. But who knows? I do see your point, Loz, on how much better it'll be if they fleshed out the current factions, but I think that they can make it work, too. As the pressure to cooperate more mounts, our enemies (or more like allies now) will have to share more and more about themselves. 

 

Ah well. It's all speculation, anyway.

 

HOPEFULLY the coolest thing about the sentients is that they do not behave in a way we can relate to. They don't talk, they cant/wont communicate to us and they see us as just an obstacle to whatever it is they want e.g. resources. That way there can be ways to explain their extended periods of hibernation. E.g. Like mass effect reapers they only activate once the solar system has enough living organisms within it. They have activated due to the expansion of the Grineer through mass cloning. or the reactivation of so much orokin technology. 

 

They say tombs which is annoying as there could be many many many tombs. In fact one could say that it could be all of them and in the past we killed their central brain and made all of them go into a death like hibernation now that it has regrown/reactivated they will emerge from the centuries of death like embrace. 

 

Doctor who has used the whole "tomb of X" thing before. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tomb_of_the_Cybermen 

The cybermen in that were just waiting for the right opportunity to launch an invasion. 

[Calayne]

Well There are hints that the sentient come from a different solar system so we could go there and perhaps beyond. 

 

Also... as Calayne suggested

Orokin. 

They might actually make a better end game enemy from a plot point of view. 

They would be our creators and though not as strong as the sentients they would probably be better at coming up with a way of killing their own creations. 

 

 

 

HOPEFULLY the coolest thing about the sentients is that they do not behave in a way we can relate to. They don't talk, they cant/wont communicate to us and they see us as just an obstacle to whatever it is they want e.g. resources. That way there can be ways to explain their extended periods of hibernation. E.g. Like mass effect reapers they only activate once the solar system has enough living organisms within it. They have activated due to the expansion of the Grineer through mass cloning. or the reactivation of so much orokin technology. 

 

They say tombs which is annoying as there could be many many many tombs. In fact one could say that it could be all of them and in the past we killed their central brain and made all of them go into a death like hibernation now that it has regrown/reactivated they will emerge from the centuries of death like embrace. 

 

Doctor who has used the whole "tomb of X" thing before. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tomb_of_the_Cybermen 

The cybermen in that were just waiting for the right opportunity to launch an invasion. 

 

 

That last bit sounds about right. There's definitely some kind of brain behind them, and I would guess it's a hivemind due to the sheer uniformity of them all. I could be wrong, of course. But I don't think their behaviour points to an individualistic way of life. 

 

If we end with the Orokin, actually, that brings the Tenno life full circle, doesn't it? Created by Orokin, fought the Sentients, slept, woke up, fought the Sentients, presumably un-creates the Orokin. 

 

Hmm, but yes, making them unique in behaviour, mechanics and character is very, very important. Behaviour, as in, AI behaviour; Mechanics, as in, how and when we do get to fight them, and character, as in, the way they relate to the world we live in. I'm actually quite worried they'll end up a little too similar to the Infested. They seem like they have a mob mentality to combat in the same way Infested do. If all that's different is the way we shoot them, I'd be a little disappointed. 

 

Perhaps making them take up permanent residence is not such a good idea; Maybe they should do something like the infested, that is, occassional invasions into the solar system. Or maybe, mid-system, they should just invade, and everyone on deck, including your enemies, have to be allies, and both sides spawn like crazy, and make it look like an all-out war. 

 

But then, what would be the point of that? What is the point of the Sentients ACTUALLY giving a crap? Why would they attack, say, a Grineer Galleon? What is their core motivation? Their prime directive? The fact that we don't know it, we can't really speculate on how best they might make it a reasonably logical and badass introduction/engagement mechanic. Guess we should just see what DE does and trust they know what they are doing.

 

I still maintain they have a better grip on their lore, now that they've introduced the Sentients. Because if they don't, we're going to be preeeeeeeeeetty messed up in the future: Under-developed enemies all around, and no more surprises left. And I'd like to just hope for the best. 

[Xenogelion]

So apparently I'm insane because I just edited the first post on my android tablet while I'm sat at the airport waiting for my colleague to turn up... Anyway here's a lovely YouTube embedded video of episode 75...

So a last little point is that I absolutely love the raid. I hope that DE can produce them with some form of frequency and maybe and even harder mode that's gated behind a time wall that resets weekly that gives some amazing vanity rewards... Like maybe kubrow armour. So how do you feel about raids and what more would you like DE to do with them?

[MDRLOz]

I have heard you say that you want raids frequently for a few days now.

 

I don't know how long it will take you to complete this raid and then also get every drop you might want from it.

 

However once they start getting several raids in the game will they all serve a purpose? Will they all be unique and interesting?

 

What I would like to see is a raid or two that have heavy random elements in layout or completion method. That way they would be more interesting to repeat them.

[Xenogelion]

One thing I will say from what little experience I've had with the raid is that the initial part seems to be set in stone. We went to the same areas and the look exactly the same. To be honest I don't mind them being static but obviously random elements would be great.

Additionally I'd like future mob consideration. Say a new corpus raid comes out tomorrow but the riot moa isn't there, what I'd like is when the riot moa gets added to the game it gets added in for a harder version of the raid. I'm certainly not saying that the mechanics of the raid need to be altered to accommodate any new mobs being introduced but I see this as a bombards and nullifier crewmen getting added to the void.

RAIDS RULE!!!

[Sixty5]

Ok, opinions on the raids

 

Firstly I will say that I have had quite a few problems with running them, mainly due to teammates not knowing what to do, as well as being unwilling to listen to sense.

Other runs I've been able to breeze through it in a 4 man party only to get it in the face with a bug in the last section. 

 

As far as the mission goes, it is great, it means that I have a use for all my OP gear, though I do sort of feel shoehorned into playing Banshee in order to carry aforesaid terrible teammates.

[Mattac0n]

@Sixty5 It's just more proof of the trouble with public play these days, even more exacerbated when it comes to these Trials that actually need coordination and planning more than OP gear and the urge to one-shot everything in the face.

 

The first time I cleared the raid with my usual group, it actually felt like a purpose was fulfilled and all the mid-raid frustrations just melted away.

 

Other runs I've been able to breeze through it in a 4 man party only to get it in the face with a bug in the last section.

 

Worst thing to happen to my raid was getting stuck at the end of Trial 2 because the End Mission screen bugged out.

Edited March 29, 2015 by Mattac0n

[Sixty5]

@Sixty5 It's just more proof of the trouble with public play these days, even more exacerbated when it comes to these Trials that actually need coordination and planning more than OP gear and the urge to one-shot everything in the face.

 

The first time I cleared the raid with my usual group, it actually felt like a purpose was fulfilled and all the mid-raid frustrations just melted away.

 

 

Worst thing to happen to my raid was getting stuck at the end of Trial 2 because the End Mission screen bugged out.

Agreed.

The thing about the raid is that killing enemies isn't a huge priority.

In smaller groups it helps keep them off your butt, but in 8 mab runs I feel like most of the time its better to just cc them to hell.

Piority targets are still priority targets, but killing that disarmed lancer trapped in Bastille only for another maniac to spawn isn't a great idea.

On another note, I find that having a Raid leader to run objectives helps.

Makes co-ordinating things without voice chat much easier.

[Copra]

Just one thing that caught my ear in Tenno Clock #75: Gorgon BP is still in login reward rotation, at least in the 1st or 2nd rotation. Definitely not in 3rd, which may be why you guys haven't seen it in a while... ;)

[Sixty5]

Just one thing that caught my ear in Tenno Clock #75: Gorgon BP is still in login reward rotation, at least in the 1st or 2nd rotation. Definitely not in 3rd, which may be why you guys haven't seen it in a while... ;)

Funny, I got a Gorgon BP today in rotation 3, or at least I think I did

[Xenogelion]

Man it must be really bad that I can barely remember what's said in these... granted episode 76 has happened for us since then but still. Did we argue if it was in the login rewards or not?

[MDRLOz]

I said it wasn't ( as I haven't seen it in a while), you said it was.

Looks like you win this one

Edited March 30, 2015 by MDRLOz

[Xenogelion]

Muhahahahaha!

 

Anyway episode #76 is now out and it features the mute youtuber, Fait:

 

 

Just a little bit of info about this episode as it was such a special case, it took 2 hours to record the audio, an hour to process Fait's comments as synthesized audio, 3 hours to stitch the audio all together and 1.5 hours to record the footage. After all this it took 8 hours and 40 minutes to render the entire episode, fun times! Of course saying all of this doesn't mean I'd be put off doing it again, I just thought it was interesting to know how long it took to make this one ^_^.

[EvexNight]

I don't think people realize how "tanky" rhino can be or become.   I was messing around with war frame builder and rhino can have a health pool of 878 this is using a physique aura mod, vitality, and vigor mod all maxed out.   Rhino shields are then 1290 with a redirection and vigor mod again maxed out.   With a maxed out steel fiber the frames armor becomes 399, which I would assume the game rounds to 400.   At a maximized power strength the builder says steel fiber can soak up to 3048, unless this is hard capped at the 1200 amount the wiki says.   Then we have rhino charges augment mod.   For each enemy hit increases rhino's armor by x% for y seconds.  At max rank that is 50% for 10 sec.   If I'm reading the augment right, if rhino hits 10 enemies his armor will be increased by 500% for 10 seconds at max rank.  This means 400 armor with steel fiber becomes something around 2400 armor for ten seconds.  My math can be really off though.  

 

I think people focus to much on iron skin thinking that's rhino's main skill.  If we look at the frames abilities rhino charge and rhino stomp its a very different story.   Rhino charge knocks down enemies at least those the initial charge doesn't kill.  Rhino's health is also immune while he is charging.   Rhino stomp will knock the enemy off there feet and put them into a slow motion fall, at least to anything not killed by it.   Rhino isn't meant to be a "face tank", but more of a plow.  Finish off anything knockdown or suspended in mid air, if the initial skill damage didn't kill the enemy and then move on to the next horde.  

 

Shields recharge while iron skin is in use, so the way I see it.   Deplete rhinos 1,290 shield pool, iron skin and if your equipped with a fast deflection mod maxed out, shields should be up before iron skin runs out.   Just keep rotating between shields and iron skin.  In theory the enemy should never reach rhino's health this way, and even if they do rhino charge into some enemies, and with the augment mod you should have enough armor to mitigate damage until the suits shields come back up, or you can get into cover.   Though I do agree that iron skin being treated as ferrite armor might have to change. 

Edited March 30, 2015 by EvexNight

[MDRLOz]

I don't think people realize how "tanky" rhino can be or become.   I was messing around with war frame builder and rhino can have a health pool of 878 this is using a physique aura mod, vitality, and vigor mod all maxed out.   Rhino shields are then 1290 with a redirection and vigor mod again maxed out.   With a maxed out steel fiber the frames armor becomes 399, which I would assume the game rounds to 400.   At a maximized power strength the builder says steel fiber can soak up to 3048, unless this is hard capped at the 1200 amount the wiki says.   Then we have rhino charges augment mod.   For each enemy hit increases rhino's armor by x% for y seconds.  At max rank that is 50% for 10 sec.   If I'm reading the augment right, if rhino hits 10 enemies his armor will be increased by 500% for 10 seconds at max rank.  This means 400 armor with steel fiber becomes something around 2400 armor for ten seconds.  My math can be really off though.  

I definitely agree that Rhino can be a built quite well to make him tougher. Also all of his tool set can be useful. 

However just to note that hitting 10 enemies with rhino charge would be hard even with a duration and range build. 

Also the % increase thing is tricky as most things always work off the base value. I would bet the bonus given by steel fibre doesn't get counted for working out how much the rhino charge mod gives. 

[Sixty5]

Haven't watched yet, because sleep, but I do agree that Rhino can get pretty tanky.

The thing is, he isn't a great tank on his own.

Sure he can roar, stomp, and shoot stuff, but that is something a Squishy can do.

In my experience, tanky Rhino doesn't really start to make sense until you equip something like a Jat Kittag, a melee weapon with a lot of CC power.

At that point, you can start diving into enemies, taking shots to the face, while hammering away and lifestealing up.

On the other hand you also have frames like Valkyr and Chroma who are naturally tankier, and have more to do when right up in an enemies face.

Valk has mobility, a tankiness and attack speed buff, a cheap way to proc a finisher, and on demand invulnerability

A max tank Valkyr will hit about 13k net durability, which is far more than Rhino can boast.

Chroma on the other hand also gets really, really hard to kill, but supplements it by having a lot of CC in that area, with his Ult, and depending on the route you go, you get a heal, 25% chance of 1000% return damage, or the ability to deflect rockets with your face.

As well as getting even tankier as enemies hit you, and then proceeding to gain infinite damage if they do manage to hurt you.

Honourable mention to Mesa, who, though she lacks Tanking abilities, can hit an effective durability of something like 25k through shatter shield.

To finish, though Rhino has decent Durability, I'd say that he doesn't make a great tank.

On the other hand he makes an excellent bruiser. With the right build he can take a fair few hits, while still building power attributes, allowing him to hit hard as well.

[Mattac0n]

I've actually mulled over what single proc property should be adjusted, and I've concluded that proc stacking should be entirely removed. It would greatly benefit all levels of play (not just the solo players who struggle against stacking procs at the end of the Solar Map), such as entire teams not being cheapened out of high-level Survival anymore by stacks of bleed procs for example. It would definitely make Survivals against Grineer and Infested far more enjoyable at their end-level maps since you no longer have to worry about your health mysteriously vanishing while behind cover. I do also feel that enemy status proc rate (especially at the higher levels) should have some sort of look-into since they tend to spiral out of control the higher their level scaling gets.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Mattac0n

[EvexNight]

That's a good point about rhino's charge augment going off base armor, and not the final armor when steel fiber is applied.   With just the base armor the augment gives 950 extra armor at max rank for 10 seconds, so that's 1140 armor in total for that short duration.   This makes me wonder if steel fiber is added to this new total, or if the two even stack. 

 

 

On to a different subject. I brought a sol-battery widget from simaris.  The first thing I noticed is that the widget is located under resources, and like most resources can not be sold.   The panel doesn't recharge the synth scanner, but appears to turn it into a single infinite use scanner.  

 

 

 

During the chroma quest I brought 50 synthesis scanners.  I used six of them so I had 44 of them left when I bought the sol-battery widget.   I scanned 40 objects in that mission, and the scanner is still in my inventory.   The synthesis scanner is also a codex scanner.  In that mission I had never scanned the bombardier or heavy gunner before, coming out of the mission there codex entries were complete.   I then went on a second mission on earth and scanned 30 items this brought the total scans up to 70, much more then the amount I had originally purchased.  By the end of the mission I had also acquired 6x moonlight threshold extract.   For you not familiarized what this is  extracts are made by scanning certain plants on earth with a codex scanner.   Went back to the liset and checked my gear my synthesis scanner is still there.  

 

Note: in gear the infinity symbol is upright and so looks like an eight.  If you have the sol-battery widget this is actually the infinity symbol. 

 

Edit:  my mistake that number was actually an eight in gear, went and brought more scanners from simaris and the number changed to 33.  Right now though it  sol-battery widget seems to either stop the use of scanners you have left, or makes a scanner last much longer then one scan. 

 

Edit 2: after running a mission on the crossfire tile set and getting  in ten scans. My synthesis scanners are still at 33.  By the looks of it the sol-battery widget does make the synthesis scanner infinite use.  I also feel more rewarded filling the codex now, since the synthesis scanner doubles as a codex scanner.  This means the coloring follows the same convention as the codex scanner.  Green targets are ones you have a full codex entry on, while orange targets are targets you don't have a full entry on. 

 

Edit 3 4/2: brought a vector thread widget today.  Both widgets are equipped to the synthesis scanner, noticeable improvement in scan speed.  More confident that the sol-battery widget has made the synthesis scanner infinite use, after a few more scans with it. 

Edited April 2, 2015 by EvexNight

[Xenogelion]

Belated Episode 77 is out:

 

 

Sorry this one was really late. I decided to use YouTube's standard so it would take next to no time to process the footage however it took 6 hours to even start processing the footage and an additional 6+ to actually render it as HD. Crazy YouTube...

[EvexNight]

You know, something that sort of came to my mind when you guys mentioned prime parts and orokin resources.   You could essentially do what they did with chroma instead using the default frame parts as part of the blueprint, take for example ember prime.   To craft the ember prime systems, helmet, and chasis those blueprints would use the Ember chasis, Ember Systems, and Ember helmet in the construction cost + orokin materials found in the void.  Though I'm not sure if this reduces the grind any, or actually increases it.   Though it does give people reason to go back and play boss nodes again.  Then again this backfires when you consider regular Volt is clan tech. 

 

On shotgun fall off.  Volt's electric shield is said to negate weapon fall off on weapons such as the Brakk, which is a sidearm shotgun.  By this conjecture I'm assuming it would work on all shotguns the same.  So if you wanted to see how shotguns would work with out fall off you could use a volt and its electric shield.   

[_Chaser]

nope. if enemy got LOS on you it cause an alert, otherwise - it will enter semi-alert, increasing lod, and walking aware, but there would not be alert untill enemy have LOS on you.

[Sixty5]

Ok on the subject of the removal of enemy armour, I agree to a degree.

Making an overly complicated system is just silly, it either results in cheese, or the feature being ignored.

Why not have a system where multiple shots to a part of the armour weakens it, with enough shots breaking the armour and exposing the flesh beneath. 

Puncture procs could be repurposed to break armour pieces when shooting at an armour piece. 

Once the armour over that body part has broken, hitting that body part results in you completely ignoring the armour. 

 

The cool thing is that with this you can give different enemies armour with more or less resistance to being shot, and can facilitate giving different body parts different damage multipliers. 

 

The specifics of the system can be boiled down to give bonuses to hard hitting weapons.

 

 

In regards to the star chart thing, I vote to remove it completely. 

Have a slider with Planet, Mission Type, and possibly difficulty.

 

Likewise you have a join mission slider with the same options to start the mission.

 

Difficulty would set level, in regards to the planet. 

Very hard would set the level to 70+ with options for additional modifiers, such as nightmare, dark sector, enemies+ or levels+

 

Simple as that.

 

The star chart would be a secondary thing, where you could still play nodes and such, and you would still have to run a specific set of missions to unlock others in terms of progression, or you could rework the entire thing with the quest system.

 

 

In regards to set effects, I support a flat 10% buff to switch speed between weapons in the same set, with it increasing to 15% if you have all three weapons. Simple and not all that powerful, given that all three of your weapons do the same thing.

Possibly have 5% switch buff for weapons in the same genre, like primes or faction weapons, with no set effect.

 

In regards to Excal, I will be sad to see Super Jump go, it was cool. 

I was actually kinda hoping that they would remove it in favour of a Super Charge ability. It would either be duration based, or have a slow energy draw, like puddle.

While active you'd get higher jumps, faster running, AOE on your melee (like his new ult will give) as well as making dodge maneuvers teleport you as opposed to roll.

As well as allowing you to cast abilities without interrupting others (stacking Radial Javelins, Blinding while dashing, dashing halfway through a dash etc)

 

We shall see what changes this new ult brings.

Edited April 14, 2015 by Sixty5

[Xenogelion]

Still happening, things crazy, link:

 

 

Also we're not supporting Xbox 1 plat giveaways!