Nyx: The Worst Warframe In The Game

[Amazerath]

I'm not trying to convince people so much as to make them understand my reasoning without them saying "lol l2p u suck noob": just my point of view. I have stated here several times where I know how to play her, I know how she works. I know her uses. I see her value. She is outclassed. That is my opinion.

 

Making someone understand your reasoning is the very definition of convincing someone.

 

I think that if your opinion about Nyx is reasonable and balanced, then you should at least do something about that "Here is what I think about Nyx. She's just God awful.". Because that's not balanced at all.

[Warriorrogue]

In my personal playstyle, nyx is the worst warframe.

In terms of general use, nyx is incredibly useful, and has saved me more times then I care to count.

[Nyxcha]

Um... wut?

 

Psychic Bolts are good and Chaos is bad...?

 

I... see...

 

Nyx isn't  a tank, so she is bad.

 

Nyx isn't a nuker, so she is bad.

 

Nyx is the QUEEN of crowd control... so... she is bad...

 

You have a right to your opinion. You will not find many who agree.

 

(edit) For the record, I do not agree.

heh i love chaos and psybolts.  but her ultimate does leave something to be desired.

Nyx is a great frame. but she is still a bit of a one trick pony.

[Leuca]

By scaling are you referring to a power affecting an enemy at any level? Because the other CC abilities I have stated, do, technically. I have never once fought anything in this game that cannot be killed ( except bosses ) in a single headshot. I have never had problems placing or positioning my Bastille to stun enemies or have had problems with using Stomp to stun enemies, either. I have never once had problems with enemies after using Radial Disarm, either.

 

Opinions are not wrong, especially in this thread. I don't get why you keep saying my opinion is wrong. Math has nothing to do with it, and personal prefernce of stating that one 'Frame is better than another cannot be disproven due to it being my own opinion of liking and disliking something.

But you apparently have trouble positioning yourself to use Chaos, since you seem to have such a big issue with its recast. You not having problems with other abilities doesn't change the fact that they are numerically inferior for achieving maximum CC when compared to Chaos per potential point of energy spent.

Chaos is a perfectly scaling ability. It removes factions, damages enemies with their own scaling stats, prevents your team from receiving damage, and has no target limit within its range, and can even affect enemies not in range of the cast by aggroing them on enemies that have been affected. When comparing factors such as this, math is very important, and the end result is not subject to your opinion.

Your "opinion" can be compared to saying it is my opinion that 4 is a bigger number than 10, when that statement can be demonstrably proven false.

Edited March 16, 2014 by Leuca

[SonicDoragon]

I meant along the lines of where as M-Prime can instant-pop anything at a certain level, WoF can only hit a max target limit each time it tries to deal damage.

 

Chaos CC VS Stomp CC, in this case. Effectiveness against each other where they're still the closest two CC powers compared to all of the other ones. I still don't believe Chaos does damage ( even had to double check the wiki on that ), but basically Stomp is a Chaos that does damage for a bit more energy used. Yes, Chaos lasts longer, but still the enemies are not STOPPED from hitting you.

 

I'm probably slapping myself for saying this, but each power has its pros and cons. Chaos just I still think has to be reworked so it's more effective.

 

Bastille : True, but it can also be used at any time so long as you have energy; there's no cooldown to it. You can also easily hide behind objects to prevent from getting shot at.

 

Vortex : Terrible range, yes, but same with Bastille; spamming and hiding behind things. You can hide behind objects against Chaos as well, but since enemies can still move about, it's "less effective" in a sense.

 

Stomp : One enemy can stay alive for Chaos' duration as well, and it lasts a LOT longer, which could be a bad thing very, very easily. Stomp is not affected by power duration, so the full 8 second duration is both a pro and a con.

 

Radial Blind : After comparing this to Chaos, I would prefer the Radial Blind, honestly. It seems like it would make enemies completely stop in their tracks more often than Chaos would, especially for the 5-second stun, you can recast it right after that. Same range, though, but the 5-second stun, to spam that portion at least, would use up a lot more energy than Chaos would. I don't use Excalibur much.

 

I don't think M-Prime was ever touched.

 

Ah, I see what you mean by Chaos deals damage now: enemies attacking each other. So it really doesn't deal damage, but it's scaleable in a sense of enemy level. Enemies don't necessarily always hurt each other or kill each other, though. I still see it as inferior to other CC powers, though, but as I keep saying, I do see its uses. It just needs to be tweaked slightly.

 

Eh it's fine. I'm still actually liking the debate on it rather than the stupid troll comments.

As a just in case if I come off ruse or the ilk, i'm extremely sorry the weekend outing was terrible and my mood sour. That said, I'll do my bloody best to keep it logical. I also thank you for the more logically applied debate, it's fun trading thoughts.

 

In the terms of Mprime V.s. WoF, Your still comparing something that's horrifically broken and doesn't scale to one that's working and scales on different levels.

 

Enemies will and do hurt each other, just gotta pay some attention. Best example is having one guy chaos'd( swap-able with Mind Control) getting mauled by the fresh spawn, most notably when the fresh spawn is ina group. It's less noticeable when fresh guys are chaos'd against a new wave, where everyone is probably only going 1v1 rather then group on group (that and A.I. issues in general). It's only doesn't do anything if you chaos'd enemies that are vastly spaced apart, which then you either chaos'd at the wrong time or aren't using map layout.

 

Stomp may have a sold time, but you can lower chaos' time. If memory serves it feels like a 15-ish duration is perfect, long enough to be effective(still lose 2 seconds to the stun) but short enough to not need to keep a major eye out for enemy numbers/ map layout.  You double edge'd yourself on the stomp v.s. chaos(as you partly noted) with vortex and Bastille. You can still hide/ flee from chaos'd enemies and not take fire, get just far enough and they swap attention. If anything Stomp is like a damaging burst version of chaos. Damage that doesn't scale in a single burst with 8 second freezing ability versus a 2 second stun + a scaling DoT(depends on, again, map layout and timing).

 

I do agree every power has it's pro's and con's, with exception's peppering the field(I can't imagine the number of people that actually use, for example, silence). Chaos does need a minor tweak, but more so in the defense department. You'd think a non-moving/ threatening target (pod) would be much much less on the attack priority then the guy shooting/ stabbing you in the back. Maybe in normal gameplay raising the range for other enemies that they should target and lowering the players a twitch or so. Again, map + timing are a rather large factor.

 

Personally I don't mind if DE "nerfed" chaos into an Ult. if they added those minor changes in. would make Nyx stand out as having multiple ultimate's for different situations. Even toss in a change to Mind control to allow multiple enemies rather then one with your invulnerability to friendly fire with whoever mentioned 70% of the time cast. Add's in more versatility, while giving her a passive balance. I'm not even gunna think on how to make psy-bolts part of a build, with the other three skills in mind, I just can't bring myself to even think of defending that for the life of me.

 

Bastille's only saving grace after the nerf is also just that, the spam-ability. Not to demerit it, it's still fantastic even after it's nerf. Though it may be arguable on if you're forcing the one trick pony thing onto vauban, because of it (I'm less knowledgeable on him, it's been a very long while since I've touched him, I really must play him soon).

 

Vortex is also an ult., yet to utilize it to it's main feature is still focused on enclosed area's/ choke points or wasting the energy to spam it versus just tossing a Bastille. It also has that irritating tug on use if within range thing.

 

Stomp is part of earlier so i'll not mention it again.

 

Radial blind every 5 seconds does scale in the stun at least but once you can't kill enemies by weapon means it's just an energy sink. Stun scales but at high enough level just a stray grenade or melee hit and your screwed once your out of energy and in that blind faze. 

 

Mprime touched in what way exactly? I did mention it's lacking scaling in damage, but slowing + doubly received damage(double damage only scales to an extent though without the help of other frames/ players) , with only the slow truly scaling to the doom tiers.

 

I like debates when it's, in the sense of sword fighting, trading blows till one messes up to a point of unable to recover. Though just seeing thought processes of others is neat. ^^

[Etsoree]

But you apparently have trouble positioning yourself to use Chaos, since you seem to have such a big issue with its recast. You not having problems with other abilities doesn't change the fact that they are numerically inferior for achieving maximum CC when compared to Chaos per potential point of energy spent.

Chaos is a perfectly scaling ability. It removes factions, damages enemies with their own scaling stats, prevents your team from receiving damage, and has no target limit within its range, and can even affect enemies not in range of the cast by aggroing them on enemies that have been affected. When comparing factors such as this, math is very important, and the end result is not subject to your opinion.

Your "opinion" can be compared to saying it is my opinion that 4 is a bigger number than 10, when that statement can be demonstrably proven false.

 

If I have trouble positioning myself in using Chaos, fighting level 50+ enemies, then doesn't that mean I do not need to use it at all? 

 

You're still forgetting about me commenting saying that other CCs are technically perfectly scaling as well. It does not 100% prevent damage, like some others do. 

 

Starting to get to the point with your comments that I'm not even going to bother replying to you since you're not understanding some things I'm saying.

[Tsoe]

if nyx is bad...

 

 

wut is neckro?

[Noogums]

While I may agree with some of the things you are saying, I absolutely disagree with the way you say some of them. Words like "Useless" are completely unfounded in your argument, because none of her abilities are useless if you use them correctly.

Yes, Mind Control may be a little similar to Chaos. Yes, the duration->damage output ratio of Absorb could be more favourable, and yes it has very short range, but Nyx is my most-used Frame for a reason. She is a jack-of-all-trades, but also the Queen of Control.

 

I respect your opinion, but I feel you were too harsh and obstinate in your argument, calling her "Useless" and "The worst". That's why so many people call this thread a joke or a troll thread, because your intensity mimics one.

[Etsoree]

As a just in case if I come off ruse or the ilk, i'm extremely sorry the weekend outing was terrible and my mood sour. That said, I'll do my bloody best to keep it logical. I also thank you for the more logically applied debate, it's fun trading thoughts.

 

In the terms of Mprime V.s. WoF, Your still comparing something that's horrifically broken and doesn't scale to one that's working and scales on different levels.

 

Enemies will and do hurt each other, just gotta pay some attention. Best example is having one guy chaos'd( swap-able with Mind Control) getting mauled by the fresh spawn, most notably when the fresh spawn is ina group. It's less noticeable when fresh guys are chaos'd against a new wave, where everyone is probably only going 1v1 rather then group on group (that and A.I. issues in general). It's only doesn't do anything if you chaos'd enemies that are vastly spaced apart, which then you either chaos'd at the wrong time or aren't using map layout.

 

Stomp may have a sold time, but you can lower chaos' time. If memory serves it feels like a 15-ish duration is perfect, long enough to be effective(still lose 2 seconds to the stun) but short enough to not need to keep a major eye out for enemy numbers/ map layout.  You double edge'd yourself on the stomp v.s. chaos(as you partly noted) with vortex and Bastille. You can still hide/ flee from chaos'd enemies and not take fire, get just far enough and they swap attention. If anything Stomp is like a damaging burst version of chaos. Damage that doesn't scale in a single burst with 8 second freezing ability versus a 2 second stun + a scaling DoT(depends on, again, map layout and timing).

 

I do agree every power has it's pro's and con's, with exception's peppering the field(I can't imagine the number of people that actually use, for example, silence). Chaos does need a minor tweak, but more so in the defense department. You'd think a non-moving/ threatening target (pod) would be much much less on the attack priority then the guy shooting/ stabbing you in the back. Maybe in normal gameplay raising the range for other enemies that they should target and lowering the players a twitch or so. Again, map + timing are a rather large factor.

 

Personally I don't mind if DE "nerfed" chaos into an Ult. if they added those minor changes in. would make Nyx stand out as having multiple ultimate's for different situations. Even toss in a change to Mind control to allow multiple enemies rather then one with your invulnerability to friendly fire with whoever mentioned 70% of the time cast. Add's in more versatility, while giving her a passive balance. I'm not even gunna think on how to make psy-bolts part of a build, with the other three skills in mind, I just can't bring myself to even think of defending that for the life of me.

 

Bastille's only saving grace after the nerf is also just that, the spam-ability. Not to demerit it, it's still fantastic even after it's nerf. Though it may be arguable on if you're forcing the one trick pony thing onto vauban, because of it (I'm less knowledgeable on him, it's been a very long while since I've touched him, I really must play him soon).

 

Vortex is also an ult., yet to utilize it to it's main feature is still focused on enclosed area's/ choke points or wasting the energy to spam it versus just tossing a Bastille. It also has that irritating tug on use if within range thing.

 

Stomp is part of earlier so i'll not mention it again.

 

Radial blind every 5 seconds does scale in the stun at least but once you can't kill enemies by weapon means it's just an energy sink. Stun scales but at high enough level just a stray grenade or melee hit and your screwed once your out of energy and in that blind faze. 

 

Mprime touched in what way exactly? I did mention it's lacking scaling in damage, but slowing + doubly received damage(double damage only scales to an extent though without the help of other frames/ players) , with only the slow truly scaling to the doom tiers.

 

I like debates when it's, in the sense of sword fighting, trading blows till one messes up to a point of unable to recover. Though just seeing thought processes of others is neat. ^^

 

I wasn't sure if you meant the actual ability dealing damage to enemies, or the enemies hurting one another to deal damage. In the game, for at least enemies level 50 and lower, I would think Chaos is not needed since they can die off so very, very fast. Higher than 50 and Chaos would be the only useful power that Nyx has in that scale, but then since it's ONE power it'd be a lot better just to bring a different CC 'Frame instead. Why have that off chance that enemies still attack you when you can have something that just prevents them from attacking you completely? With the map layout as well there's some maps it could be good on, others, not so much. Giant Orokin Void rooms, for example, some of the ones that have multiple levels while you just stand in the open in the middle ( sometimes ), or some of the tilesets for Outer Terminus. With at least the Defense missions, you'd need a Frost AND the Nyx. Snow Globe would be useful, yes, but the Frost would have to stay put still to throw that thing up. You could take a Rhino or Vauban instead to completely stop enemies in their tracks, albeit with Vau, more energy usage with inexperienced players.

 

I still much prefer Stomp over Chaos due to Stomp actually stopping enemies dead in their tracks. That is more than likely why it's not affected by power duration. Imagine if it WAS; we'd have Stompped enemies just floating there, doing nothing for X seconds, probably around 30 seconds, making Rhino even that much more of a tank. Stomp needed a drawback. The drawback is duration. It makes it a balanced CC. Chaos, while somewhat balanced still, is affected by duration, thus then making it a bad trade off, I would think. I'm not bringing the damage into account with Stomp only because it's useless past level 35.

 

Chaos is overpowered for a third power, and underpowered for an ult. Absorb is underpowered for an ult, and overpowered for a third power. Something would have to be done. MC needs a complete overhaul. Bolts just need fixed targeting, or at least target more than one enemy at a time, not just hit a wall when you have enemies at point blank range.

 

I don't even consider Bastille's nerf a nerf. Even after that I didn't notice any change in gameplay, and I still don't with Bastille and Vauban.

 

With Vortex, its range, yes, but that is its drawback. If it had a huge range, then you'd be ragdolling things like a Mag with Pull. Some usual defense maps have many of those chokebpoints, at least close to the defense objective ( even including Mobile Defense ). With some Survival maps, you can throw it into a doorway. Many-a-Moa, Butchers and Infested. The tug is a bug still and doesnt offset it that much.

 

Radial Blind, while yes, would be an energy sink, but I haven't used it past 30 or so since I don't play as Excalibur all too often. I know how to use it effectively, yes, but I'd much rather just have something else if I want to try to get mods or XP. He's just for fun.

 

M-Prime, as in a nerf or a buff. I don't think it's ever been touched. I think the only power of Nova's that has been touched is just the range on Wormhole. I would much rather a Nova than a Nyx in a game, even though I have Nova players since it's just M-Prime, M-Prime, M-Prime, and they think they're the greatest ever.

 

I enjoy debates when they're calm and people not trying to give me troll comments or seem like they're raising their temper, or continuously stating that my opinions are wrong.

[Volt_Cruelerz]

How is this thread still alive? O.o

[Leuca]

If I have trouble positioning myself in using Chaos, fighting level 50+ enemies, then doesn't that mean I do not need to use it at all? 

 

You're still forgetting about me commenting saying that other CCs are technically perfectly scaling as well. It does not 100% prevent damage, like some others do. 

 

Starting to get to the point with your comments that I'm not even going to bother replying to you since you're not understanding some things I'm saying.

What I bolded there; that is important. You should not be dying to level 50 enemies as Nyx under any normal circumstances, regardless of faction. If you have trouble positioning yourself when using Chaos, then that is on you; it has nothing to do with the frame at that point when other people seem to be perfectly capable of achieving optimal results.

I'm not forgetting about other CC abilities and their scaling, but they do not do it nearly as efficiently as Chaos for the energy spent. Chaos combines more into its CC than Stomp, Bastille, etc. There is a term called efficiency that refers to more than just the cost of casting, and you seem to be ignoring it.

[Etsoree]

What I bolded there; that is important. You should not be dying to level 50 enemies as Nyx under any normal circumstances, regardless of faction. If you have trouble positioning yourself when using Chaos, then that is on you; it has nothing to do with the frame at that point when other people seem to be perfectly capable of achieving optimal results.

I'm not forgetting about other CC abilities and their scaling, but they do not do it nearly as efficiently as Chaos for the energy spent. Chaos combines more into its CC than Stomp, Bastille, etc. There is a term called efficiency that refers to more than just the cost of casting, and you seem to be ignoring it.

 

I do not have trouble positioning myself with Chaos in the fact of I do not need to use it. There's always either another CC ability up which would just render Chaos useless, or the enemies are just dying off.

 

I keep saying this, too: Chaos does not protect you from 100% of the damage enemies can deal. Other CCs can. Chaos cannot, and never has been able to. That, is a main point in where it fails.

[Volume]

How is this not locked yet?

 

It's so blatantly obviously trolling and has been refuted consistently for over 250 replies. Granted, I suppose a grand master and 1337 posts has nothing better to do but troll for a solid 3 weeks.

Edited March 17, 2014 by Volume

[00zau]

I do not have trouble positioning myself with Chaos in the fact of I do not need to use it. There's always either another CC ability up which would just render Chaos useless, or the enemies are just dying off.

I keep saying this, too: Chaos does not protect you from 100% of the damage enemies can deal. Other CCs can. Chaos cannot, and never has been able to. That, is a main point in where it fails.

You're consistently understating Chaos's effectiveness. You're acting like the fact that it doesn't 100% CC means that it doesn't CC at all. There are no other skills in the game that have as large and long a CC as Chaos. Chaos is about quantity of CC. What other CC skill will tie up an entire room, and often bleed over into the next room, for almost 20 seconds, for 75 base energy? In addition, Chaos does have a two second hard CC when you cast it, and when using a fleeting expertise build, that can be quite often.

M-Prime isn't a hard CC either, is an ult, and is OP (but that's another thread)

Stomp lasts less than half as long, is an ult, and using overextended and stretch on Rhino (which is needed to get the same range) makes all his other skills useless. Rhino requires two mods to get 75% power effeceincy as well. And even with that, Stomp costs more, and, because Chaos can tie up mobs that it didn't initially effect (because they'll attack mobs that where), it still doesn't have the effective range of Chaos

Bastille has a target limit and a much shorter effective range. A single cast of Chaos will protect you more than a single cast of Bastille will, and against ranged enemies a Chaos will be better even with several (and you still only need one chaos)

Vortex is an ult and has horribly limited range.

Terrify has a low target limit and less range.

Shadows of the dead is an ult and is even less effective at keeping fire off of you.

Not being a 100% effective CC doesn't make Chaos useless. I'd rather CC 90% of every mob within range for nearly 100% of the time, than CC a couple dozen enemies (Bastille and other target limited CCs) or for a few seconds at a time (Stomp).

Chaos doesn't require much in the way of "when should I use this." The answer is "now" and "when Chaos ends." Choas with Fleeting Expertise, Vespa, and Continuity costs 18.5 energy and lasts about the same number of seconds. With energy siphon (oh, look, Nyx has a -- polarity), you've got a good deal of energy regen. Without another player with siphon, you'd take several minutes of continuous use, without a single energy orb, to run out of energy. With someone else using energy siphon, you cannot run out of energy spamming Chaos. What other CC skill can do that?

Edited March 17, 2014 by 00zau

[HansJurgen]

I believe this video sums up what Nyx is all about.

Also, why are founders allowed to troll like this? As a new player, it makes for a poor impression.

The developers base off some of their decisions on founder feedback. And here we have a shining example of over the top trolling and blatant "buff my stuff", while showing no interest in game balance or skill oriented aspects of the game.

If I made a thread like this, I am quite sure I would not have gotten away with it.

Edited March 17, 2014 by HansJurgen

[SonicDoragon]

I wasn't sure if you meant the actual ability dealing damage to enemies, or the enemies hurting one another to deal damage. In the game, for at least enemies level 50 and lower, I would think Chaos is not needed since they can die off so very, very fast. Higher than 50 and Chaos would be the only useful power that Nyx has in that scale, but then since it's ONE power it'd be a lot better just to bring a different CC 'Frame instead. Why have that off chance that enemies still attack you when you can have something that just prevents them from attacking you completely? With the map layout as well there's some maps it could be good on, others, not so much. Giant Orokin Void rooms, for example, some of the ones that have multiple levels while you just stand in the open in the middle ( sometimes ), or some of the tilesets for Outer Terminus. With at least the Defense missions, you'd need a Frost AND the Nyx. Snow Globe would be useful, yes, but the Frost would have to stay put still to throw that thing up. You could take a Rhino or Vauban instead to completely stop enemies in their tracks, albeit with Vau, more energy usage with inexperienced players.

 

I still much prefer Stomp over Chaos due to Stomp actually stopping enemies dead in their tracks. That is more than likely why it's not affected by power duration. Imagine if it WAS; we'd have Stompped enemies just floating there, doing nothing for X seconds, probably around 30 seconds, making Rhino even that much more of a tank. Stomp needed a drawback. The drawback is duration. It makes it a balanced CC. Chaos, while somewhat balanced still, is affected by duration, thus then making it a bad trade off, I would think. I'm not bringing the damage into account with Stomp only because it's useless past level 35.

 

Chaos is overpowered for a third power, and underpowered for an ult. Absorb is underpowered for an ult, and overpowered for a third power. Something would have to be done. MC needs a complete overhaul. Bolts just need fixed targeting, or at least target more than one enemy at a time, not just hit a wall when you have enemies at point blank range.

 

I don't even consider Bastille's nerf a nerf. Even after that I didn't notice any change in gameplay, and I still don't with Bastille and Vauban.

 

With Vortex, its range, yes, but that is its drawback. If it had a huge range, then you'd be ragdolling things like a Mag with Pull. Some usual defense maps have many of those chokebpoints, at least close to the defense objective ( even including Mobile Defense ). With some Survival maps, you can throw it into a doorway. Many-a-Moa, Butchers and Infested. The tug is a bug still and doesnt offset it that much.

 

Radial Blind, while yes, would be an energy sink, but I haven't used it past 30 or so since I don't play as Excalibur all too often. I know how to use it effectively, yes, but I'd much rather just have something else if I want to try to get mods or XP. He's just for fun.

 

M-Prime, as in a nerf or a buff. I don't think it's ever been touched. I think the only power of Nova's that has been touched is just the range on Wormhole. I would much rather a Nova than a Nyx in a game, even though I have Nova players since it's just M-Prime, M-Prime, M-Prime, and they think they're the greatest ever.

 

I enjoy debates when they're calm and people not trying to give me troll comments or seem like they're raising their temper, or continuously stating that my opinions are wrong.

It's understandable, I could of worded it better. If you get right up in the fray or competent team, absorb can still straight up kill level 50+ enemies, chaos isn't her only skill that scales. Gotta get clever with that absorb, it still grants invulnerability if your in the bubble for other frames. team member is down and someone is already reviving? you can help out by popping an absorb on top of them. They get protected, you get built up damage, and if downed guy is shooting once you explode chances are if everything isn't dead you get that free knockdown with bonus pent up damage, which at every enemy level is a lot. Pod getting shot up? pop an absorb and it repeats the above. with the orokin void defense room i was popping absorb more often then chaos, because enemies bunch up. get right in the center of them and that's how you can kill 50+ guys with absorb and with no help from others. The team I did that with had no frost(did have a rhino), if I hadn't been a dolt and chaos'd + absorbed on the pod rather then just absorb over a downed team player getting revived we coulda gotten to 35 without trying. 

 

Edit: Forgot to mention, absorb takes all damage and deal's it all to enemies in that if you absorb say a million damage, each enemy receives a million damage individually.

 

With stomp you can also argue if it was increased by duration you can have the same problem with chaos. stomp and kill all enemies in say 5 seconds but if one is out of sight or even on a different floor not visible and your sitting there for (using your example of 30 seconds[ though i think if i did the math right it's more closer to 21-22 seconds with max duration]) 25 seconds unable to do jack. depending on the build for rhino, under that, your roar may pretty much be useless, leaving rhino with either charging just to do something in the cc department or just being a more durable frame with higher target priority with a gun. chaos as is can be dropped to 10 seconds minus that 2 second stun, is exactly on par with stomp in time. Unlike rhino, Nyx still has other skills that, excluding psy-bolts, are all positively or negatively affected in the exact same way.Chaos and enemies are still going to the defense pod? absorb up and blast 'em. Only one guy in a group(still chaos'd) going to the pod? Mind control and now it's defending the pod. Bare minimum Nyx will always have one skill available(absorb) that can be utilized differently based on the situation.

 

If Chaos was brought back to it's pre-nerf, it would fit being an ult perfectly. You know what I use to do with nyx and chaos pre-nerf? I'd let infested charge a defense pod and then chaos. You know what would happen then? Didn't matter if that lone guy was next to the pod or another player, it would only go after enemies. a.k.a. 100% pure CC(again the Mprime, before Mprime). People back then were actually asking for Chaos to be nyx's ult. It's just made sense, though to be fair absorb was also straight up garbage. Absorb is in a much better position now then it use to be (arguably thanks to corrupted mods), and if all that was done was a better range upon exploding it would be more on par with other ults. It could maybe do with multiplying damage absorbed, given other frames, but again absorb is extremely versatile so also easily arguable. Again they could just make nyx the first frame to have two ults. given how vastly different chaos and absorb are from one another. Mc needs what you and that other person said.  Buff it with invulnerability from our fire with a duration to said invulnerability is plenty with multi-targeting, not a complete overhaul. it does already affect enemies differently compared to chaos in that we get those added benefits from enemies, including from leaders. Again, not gunna even attempt to give a thought on Psy-bolts.

 

depends on both build and how you use him. I know how great Bastille still is but if it's a only Bastille build that's just turning him into a one trick pony. not something the community I've noted likes with any frame, just use old frost as an example. 

 

that's vortex's only saving grace as well, but more and more maps are changing that with just positioning of the defense point. It's just changes on the situation. Given Bastille is used by the same frame chances are you'll use Bastille over vortex even in choke points, as last i heard it can still use the raised bodies as a wall. It's noteworthy when a player is stuck in it for the whole duration, it's rare but happens. I've had it happen on me a couple of times.

 

Figured i'd just toss blind in with the others given at that point it's became about CC. if anything it just shows other skills based on CC can be worse to a degree. 

 

Mprime got a stealth nerf, in the explosion radius. It was much much more notable right after it happened. null star got it's timer removed apparently. Antimatter drop either got a stealth nerf and/ or it's bugging out. The explosion use to pass though objects/environment if memory serves (I've seen people complain you need to hit the ceiling to get enemies behind cover), as well as it may not slow down upon focusing in on it when it's suppose to. worm hole use to appear closer to where your head was so if you wanted to go up you might need to hop from a higher point then it at times just to get in and personally I don't know if the range has that 50m cap regardless of the change. More nova players and haters just need to play with her when she truly becomes a glass cannon at the higher levels, where Mprime isn't her bread and butter. null star is just a personal bubble for stunning and antimatter drop use to be far more destructive then Mprime could hope to be in the damage department. a moving absorb with damage multiplier? Use to put absorb to shame, till it started bugging out. Mprime is just a 50% speed decrease in both movement and attack rate.

 

Personally once someone starts being rude in general in a debate, at least for me, I consider it a win, more because they either didn't have the knowledge to back them up or the patience to prove why they're right. Just like stating someones opinion is wrong, with no knowledge as to why, a debate can't be had. Heck even much like this one, I know your putting up great point's but I've also noted you change stance a few times and even dropping points entirely and it does make me feel like at the very least I'm putting up an intelligent fight.

Edited March 17, 2014 by SonicDoragon

[Leuca]

I do not have trouble positioning myself with Chaos in the fact of I do not need to use it. There's always either another CC ability up which would just render Chaos useless, or the enemies are just dying off.

 

I keep saying this, too: Chaos does not protect you from 100% of the damage enemies can deal. Other CCs can. Chaos cannot, and never has been able to. That, is a main point in where it fails.

Your teammates spamming cc has nothing to do with potential efficiency; an unorganized random-join group is a terrible basis for your argument.

We keep saying this too: Chaos will reliably protect you from damage if you are positioned correctly to take advantage of it. It can, and has always been able to. That is why it is so effective.

[NikolaiLev]

Um... wut?

 

Psychic Bolts are good and Chaos is bad...?

 

I... see...

 

Nyx isn't  a tank, so she is bad.

 

Nyx isn't a nuker, so she is bad.

 

Nyx is the QUEEN of crowd control... so... she is bad...

 

You have a right to your opinion. You will not find many who agree.

 

(edit) For the record, I do not agree.

 

Yeeeeeah...

 

Nyx is fairly overpowered.  However, because her damage is not that great, Chaos is unreliable, and her ultimate has drawbacks despite being huge CC and damage, she's still outclassed by the likes of Rhino and Nova.

[Leuca]

Chaos is unreliable

You're doing it wrong.

[Jin_Lightning]

Mind Control is very effective, if you have teammates who communicate and coordinate. Turning the biggest threat in the room into a personal flying monkey is never a bad thing. And even IF teammates attack it, it's still not attacking your team, so I don't see a heavy downside.

 

Psychic Bolts is probably her most misplaced ability. I don't use it that much, but it's good for free dmg.

 

Chaos makes up the the fact that the enemy can attack ANY faction and unit around them. What other CC ability in this game does that?

They CAN shoot eachother, and that's why Chaos isn't a guaranteed CC, but is rather a hybrid dmg ability.

 

Absorb is again, an amazing ability is a panic, AND if teammates fuel it's power. Like Bladestorm, it allows you to recover lost shields, which is Nyx's primary method of defense, minus her CC potential and decent speed.

 

To the original OP, I think  the reason people are somewhat upset, is because all you did was say a frame is useless, without any constructive feedback.

 

You just basically said "Nyx suck, and if you think otherwise, you're wrong"

 

-Jin

[Riddle78]

After doing some ODD with a Nyx,and carrying for about thirty waves,I can say this: Nyx is not worthless. Chaos,Mind Control,and Absorb are peerless in what they do. Let me run things down.

 

-Chaos: Bread and butter. In ODD,I often went down to a spawn zone and dropped it. This delayed a significant portion of the enemy advance,and weakened it when it did arrive. Also makes for decent cover for emergency revivals.

-Mind Control: Rarely used,but it makes for a handy distraction,or to make sure everyone gets heals (only one mission had an Oberon). Also good for making a Disruptor not disrupt you.

-Absorb: I used this the most. I let my team know I was using it,and they backed off. I've noticed that Nyx with an active Absorb has a higher target priority than normal. I used this to my advantage. Stacking duration,the Absorb Period is very long,allowing me to "collect" an extreme amount of damage. Popping it beside the pod let me annihilate entire waves in the blink of an eye.

 

In my opinion,ODD is worst case scenario for Nyx. Disruptors will be present to take away your energy (I have 450),and the Infested have a grand total of TWO ranged units: Electro Crawlers and Lobber Crawlers,limiting the overall effectiveness of Absorb. And I still rocked house. Etsoree,the reason why you hate Nyx is because you do not know how to use her. Accept this fact and take off your blinders. We are trying to  help you.

 

For Chaos to work,you need to pick your moment wisely,and make yourself scarce,or at least distance yourself enough so you're not a target. For Mind Control,you need to pick your victim wisely,because Mind Controlling a Runner is just plain stupid,while Mind Controlling a Healer or Disruptor is giving your team a much-needed meat shield and,in the case of the Healer,heals. Absorb is,in my experience,the most universally effective ultimate in the game. Huge minimum damage,and it only gets stronger the more people are focused on you.

 

So what if you're MR15. So what if you're a Founder. You're still human. Therefore,you can be wrong. Therefore,you can make mistakes. Therefore,your opinions are not fact. My opinions are not fact,either. I simply reported my experiences,and the mathematical facts that I've been able to dig up.

 

I can't believe I'm saying this to you,but...

 

Lrn2PlayNyx. At leas we're trying to help. But we can't if you're not receptive.

 

I said it before,but I'll say it again: For every task,there is a tool. Now,allow me to add to that: Use that tool properly,and know perfection.

[Etsoree]

It's understandable, I could of worded it better. If you get right up in the fray or competent team, absorb can still straight up kill level 50+ enemies, chaos isn't her only skill that scales. Gotta get clever with that absorb, it still grants invulnerability if your in the bubble for other frames. team member is down and someone is already reviving? you can help out by popping an absorb on top of them. They get protected, you get built up damage, and if downed guy is shooting once you explode chances are if everything isn't dead you get that free knockdown with bonus pent up damage, which at every enemy level is a lot. Pod getting shot up? pop an absorb and it repeats the above. with the orokin void defense room i was popping absorb more often then chaos, because enemies bunch up. get right in the center of them and that's how you can kill 50+ guys with absorb and with no help from others. The team I did that with had no frost(did have a rhino), if I hadn't been a dolt and chaos'd + absorbed on the pod rather then just absorb over a downed team player getting revived we coulda gotten to 35 without trying. 

 

Edit: Forgot to mention, absorb takes all damage and deal's it all to enemies in that if you absorb say a million damage, each enemy receives a million damage individually.

 

With stomp you can also argue if it was increased by duration you can have the same problem with chaos. stomp and kill all enemies in say 5 seconds but if one is out of sight or even on a different floor not visible and your sitting there for (using your example of 30 seconds[ though i think if i did the math right it's more closer to 21-22 seconds with max duration]) 25 seconds unable to do jack. depending on the build for rhino, under that, your roar may pretty much be useless, leaving rhino with either charging just to do something in the cc department or just being a more durable frame with higher target priority with a gun. chaos as is can be dropped to 10 seconds minus that 2 second stun, is exactly on par with stomp in time. Unlike rhino, Nyx still has other skills that, excluding psy-bolts, are all positively or negatively affected in the exact same way.Chaos and enemies are still going to the defense pod? absorb up and blast 'em. Only one guy in a group(still chaos'd) going to the pod? Mind control and now it's defending the pod. Bare minimum Nyx will always have one skill available(absorb) that can be utilized differently based on the situation.

 

If Chaos was brought back to it's pre-nerf, it would fit being an ult perfectly. You know what I use to do with nyx and chaos pre-nerf? I'd let infested charge a defense pod and then chaos. You know what would happen then? Didn't matter if that lone guy was next to the pod or another player, it would only go after enemies. a.k.a. 100% pure CC(again the Mprime, before Mprime). People back then were actually asking for Chaos to be nyx's ult. It's just made sense, though to be fair absorb was also straight up garbage. Absorb is in a much better position now then it use to be (arguably thanks to corrupted mods), and if all that was done was a better range upon exploding it would be more on par with other ults. It could maybe do with multiplying damage absorbed, given other frames, but again absorb is extremely versatile so also easily arguable. Again they could just make nyx the first frame to have two ults. given how vastly different chaos and absorb are from one another. Mc needs what you and that other person said.  Buff it with invulnerability from our fire with a duration to said invulnerability is plenty with multi-targeting, not a complete overhaul. it does already affect enemies differently compared to chaos in that we get those added benefits from enemies, including from leaders. Again, not gunna even attempt to give a thought on Psy-bolts.

 

depends on both build and how you use him. I know how great Bastille still is but if it's a only Bastille build that's just turning him into a one trick pony. not something the community I've noted likes with any frame, just use old frost as an example. 

 

that's vortex's only saving grace as well, but more and more maps are changing that with just positioning of the defense point. It's just changes on the situation. Given Bastille is used by the same frame chances are you'll use Bastille over vortex even in choke points, as last i heard it can still use the raised bodies as a wall. It's noteworthy when a player is stuck in it for the whole duration, it's rare but happens. I've had it happen on me a couple of times.

 

Figured i'd just toss blind in with the others given at that point it's became about CC. if anything it just shows other skills based on CC can be worse to a degree. 

 

Mprime got a stealth nerf, in the explosion radius. It was much much more notable right after it happened. null star got it's timer removed apparently. Antimatter drop either got a stealth nerf and/ or it's bugging out. The explosion use to pass though objects/environment if memory serves (I've seen people complain you need to hit the ceiling to get enemies behind cover), as well as it may not slow down upon focusing in on it when it's suppose to. worm hole use to appear closer to where your head was so if you wanted to go up you might need to hop from a higher point then it at times just to get in and personally I don't know if the range has that 50m cap regardless of the change. More nova players and haters just need to play with her when she truly becomes a glass cannon at the higher levels, where Mprime isn't her bread and butter. null star is just a personal bubble for stunning and antimatter drop use to be far more destructive then Mprime could hope to be in the damage department. a moving absorb with damage multiplier? Use to put absorb to shame, till it started bugging out. Mprime is just a 50% speed decrease in both movement and attack rate.

 

Personally once someone starts being rude in general in a debate, at least for me, I consider it a win, more because they either didn't have the knowledge to back them up or the patience to prove why they're right. Just like stating someones opinion is wrong, with no knowledge as to why, a debate can't be had. Heck even much like this one, I know your putting up great point's but I've also noted you change stance a few times and even dropping points entirely and it does make me feel like at the very least I'm putting up an intelligent fight.

 

 

My own personal build with Absorb cannot do more than a fourth of a level 50+ enemy's healthbar, if I'm lucky. I see Absorb as good, yes, but its range... the RANGE on it needs to be fixed, so very, very needs to be fixed. That is its downfall, yes, but also the downfall of the duration, which can just be thrown out the window with a few mods. If any of those situations arise, there's other 'Frames I think that can still outclass her, easily, at least for CC. She's just a filler when nothing else can be found, and that's a rarity, I'd say.

 

Apparently with Rhino's Iron Skin, the threat meter was taken off of it. That kinda sucks I say. Stomp can be argued with that, yes, but it at least completely, 100% stuns the enemies in the duration. I would still rather have that than enemies possibly attacking other enemies, especially at higher levels. The risk tradeoff is way too high. Charge is useless on my own build with Rhino ( he goes like two feet forward ) and Roar... I don't usually have enough energy to use it, and it doesn't last for long anyway.

 

This is assuming you have the energy to do it. The higher levels would call for either allies to kill as well, or at least energy pads, where as at least with Vauban's CC, it can be recast instantly at any given spot, though still an energy sink. It can immediately kill the problem at hand ( Bastille ) though with more energy still used. Can't really say much along the lines of energy waste since Bastille has a target cap, but yet can still be used constantly.

 

I don't remember what Chaos was like "pre-nerf". I may have been too new of a player or just not reading updates at the time. We already have a power that multiplies damage absorbed, via Nova, but then again many powers are similar to one another. Absorb just needs better range. That's it I'd think. 

 

My own Vauban build is efficiency, range and I THINK duration. No strength mods on him that I recall of since Tesla is bleh on damage and Vortexs' damage is bad. I don't think you can increase grenade impact damage either but even then that's bad. Vau is still another CC 'Frame with powers that appeal to me greater than Nyx's since they just seem to work all around better, I think: preventing 100% of the damage. I keep saying that and I'm not liking it. I need a better reason.

 

I haven't seen Vortex grab and pull players constantly since before that update of it. Now I just see it do that for maybe a second or two, then it stops.

 

I never recall Nova's powers really even being touched at all, except for Wormhole. M-Prime, you can't even call that a nerf. It's still overpowered beyond belief. Antimatter Drop has always worked for me, except slowing down/speeding up if you look at it. Null Star... bleh, useless with my build; I get two of the damn things around me. I don't forma power polarization off any 'Frame, I like having all my options there for a power, especially when I'm bored. I've also had Absorb bug a lot, lot more than Antimatter Drop ever has.

 

I had used Antimatter Drop earlier today as well and got a 250k hitmarker ( without M-Prime on the targets and that thread is possibly still in the General section somewhere with the screenshot ), so I'd say at least Nova still has high value in higher levels, especially with her debuffs with M-Prime. M-Prime itself also causes all enemies under its effect to take 200% more damage from all sources, thereby also making itself more powerful in the process.

 

That would be more than half of the comments here then I'd think. Never thought of it like that but people who just start to get rude and don't hear/understand points just piss me off, hah. Had a comment earlier that kept saying "math" was the reason why she outclasses some other 'Frames, I can't remember, I'm not replying to that one now since it was their reasoning behind why my opinion was wrong. I have changed stance, yes, and I've not commented on some things for another good reason: these replies are longer than hell. Some things I just cannot say anything to. I really wouldn't say it's a fight in a sense, but a discussion, not even a debate.

 

I do not think Nyx is a bad Warframe. Her powers, yes, are appealing, in the sense of every other 'Frame bores me for now, but I think are underpowered and outclassed. She is strong, immensely, and her powers are fun to use, but... jeeze... people don't seem to understand my view on it, I'd guess.

[Leuca]

That would be more than half of the comments here then I'd think. Never thought of it like that but people who just start to get rude and don't hear/understand points just &!$$ me off, hah. Had a comment earlier that kept saying "math" was the reason why she outclasses some other 'Frames, I can't remember, I'm not replying to that one now since it was their reasoning behind why my opinion was wrong. I have changed stance, yes, and I've not commented on some things for another good reason: these replies are longer than hell. Some things I just cannot say anything to. I really wouldn't say it's a fight in a sense, but a discussion, not even a debate.

You ignore people who provide counterarguments when their points are based on objective information?

[00zau]

I do not think Nyx is a bad Warframe. Her powers, yes, are appealing, in the sense of every other 'Frame bores me for now, but I think are underpowered and outclassed. She is strong, immensely, and her powers are fun to use, but... jeeze... people don't seem to understand my view on it, I'd guess.

Maybe that's because your thread title calls her "the worst warframe in the game"? Because that would seem to indicate that you think she's a bad warframe.

[gorgorom]

While I may agree with some of the things you are saying, I absolutely disagree with the way you say some of them. Words like "Useless" are completely unfounded in your argument, because none of her abilities are useless if you use them correctly.

Yes, Mind Control may be a little similar to Chaos. Yes, the duration->damage output ratio of Absorb could be more favourable, and yes it has very short range, but Nyx is my most-used Frame for a reason. She is a jack-of-all-trades, but also the Queen of Control.

 

I respect your opinion, but I feel you were too harsh and obstinate in your argument, calling her "Useless" and "The worst". That's why so many people call this thread a joke or a troll thread, because your intensity mimics one.

Amen. I use Nyx abundantly and absolutley love her. She has improved with the newest update, and I find myself using her more often than not.