Omg Soma Is Op! What The Hell O.o

[Tveoh]

Soma is only op if you built it as the intended Crit build.   Yes it can melt enemies.  Which is why I only use it on things where I trully need that fire power.   Or want to speed a boss.   

 

Other then that.  the Penta is op the orgis is op.  Paris prime is op.  Dread. Boltor.  Akbolto.   etc etc etc.   hell ran some high 25+ missions with the default Braton.. and @_@ was melting people with that..    if you build any weapon up right, it can be op.  fact of the gaming world..   enjoy :3

[EnForest]

 

WHAT THE HELL DE!! This thing WRECKS everything on any amount of legs at all times! The akvastos dont even compare to it! o.o

 

 

Not sure if troll or just plain stupid...

[SquirmyBurrito]

Counting raw DPS only for Marelok: Somewhere between AkMagnus and Detron. Marelok has a very high status effect chance, and would likely be one of the better weapons.

 

So I should go ahead and build two of them in hopes that DE releases an even more powerful Dual version? Nice. I'll do that once I get done with my trash weapons.

[(NSW)Omgwtfl9lbbl]

 

You're vastly overvaluing the dps of procs. Look at the value of the procs you're getting while you play.

 

Slash procs are actually really good against very high level Grineer. Since their damage does bypass armor and are affected by critical and body multipliers, they can deal some insane damage while your normal bullets are busy hitting like pillows. Slash proc on a headshot crit from my Dread does ~8300 damage per tick. That's 58000+ damage that completely ignores armor if left to run for the whole duration and assuming the target has that much health. With Heavy Caliber, you could do more (but I personally don't use Heavy Caliber). A level 100 Napalm has 80k HP with 7.6k armor (that's 97% raw damage mitigation due to armor). Even if I have balls for my elementals (no Radiation, Cold, or Viral), I could still potentially "one shot" a level 100 Napalm with the help of some RNG (Split Chamber, double Slash procs).

 

I mean yeah the fact that you have to wait for that damage to be fully applied isn't the greatest thing ever, but getting even a couple of seconds off with that can be useful.

[Inez]

LazyKnight, on 27 Feb 2014 - 4:12 PM, said:

Most of the damage dots stack, and they last a long time. Gas and toxin stacks tick 8 times, and electric does burst damage. They add to DPS only when the target lives a long time. Again I say that chart about them is absurd it would take a meat slab boss for that to be relevant.

In the Burston Prime build you listed, each time you get a bleed you're getting roughly 15% more dps for the next 6 seconds. And no additional dps from Radiation. The numbers I remember seeing when electricity procced were not impressive at all. At times the electric seemed to do less damage than the normal shot (have not fraps tested this, could easily be wrong). I have no idea what the values are for for toxin or gas. But assuming they are close to the bleed values, they aren't a colossal changes in dps.

Keep in mind that the actual procs per second from Soma and Burston Prime aren't massively different. Soma has roughly twice the fire rate with roughly 1/3 the status chance. So with 2/3 the number of procs per second, from a theoretical math perspective, it seems silly that the Burston, with less raw dps and 50% more procs per second could be doing 4 times the dps. Especially when you consider that when the Burston gets a proc, it has a higher chance of being a dps-useless impact or puncture proc, given its nearly even distribution or impact, puncture and slash damage as opposed to the Soma being half slash damage.

And then there's the fact that I've actually used both guns on high level mobs. And can assure you the 4x damage is way, way off, even if the theoretical math shows it being correct. Somewhere or somehow the formulas or values are not matching up with what is actually seen in game.

LazyKnight, on 27 Feb 2014 - 4:12 PM, said:

Yeah, there is a way to figure out how many hits it will take on average to get a single Viral proc. No, I am not claiming the B-Prime can do 4x Soma's damage with a viral build. It wouldn't be that high, as it be more likely than not trigger a viral proc quicker and need half as much damage to kill a target.

By 'quantify' I meant 'assess the value of'. It varies wildly depending on the mobs effective health. Assigning a general mathematical value to it is impossible.

And if you can figure out the average number of shots to get a viral proc, everyone who calculates dps would love to know.

LazyKnight, on 27 Feb 2014 - 4:12 PM, said:

Infested have a massive resistance to viral, they are kind of the worst example you could have picked.

Viral procs do less damage to infested? I did not realize that. Thanks for the info.

Or maybe you meant the -50% to damage? Which would be odd since I was discussing the effects of viral procs on dps. Having an element that does less dps would amplify the effect the viral procs as it would increase the chance of getting a proc before you've taken off 50% of their health.

omgwtflolbbl, on 27 Feb 2014 - 9:46 PM, said:

Slash procs are actually really good against very high level Grineer. Since their damage does bypass armor and are affected by critical and body multipliers, they can deal some insane damage while your normal bullets are busy hitting like pillows. Slash proc on a headshot crit from my Dread does ~8300 damage per tick. That's 58000+ damage that completely ignores armor if left to run for the whole duration and assuming the target has that much health. With Heavy Caliber, you could do more (but I personally don't use Heavy Caliber). A level 100 Napalm has 80k HP with 7.6k armor (that's 97% raw damage mitigation due to armor). Even if I have balls for my elementals (no Radiation, Cold, or Viral), I could still potentially "one shot" a level 100 Napalm with the help of some RNG (Split Chamber, double Slash procs).

Yeah, for the Dread (high status chance, high crit chance, high damage per shot, almost all slash) bleeds are sweet. For other weapons they're not nearly as impressive. By the time you get to high enough level Grineer for armor to cripple your dps, most weapon's bleed procs are going to be doing a very tiny percentage of their huge health pool.

[notionphil]

Soon you will get tired of 1 shotting everything and join us elite, using crappy weapons forgotten by time and turning them into god weapons.

 

5 Forma Seer FTW

[Davoodoo]

I have no idea where the Marelok stands, but, the rest (especially) the Galatine) stand out primarily because they aren't complete and utter crap. Most other charge melee weapons are trash, but this doesn't make the Galatine OP. It just makes the other weapons UP. The same can be said for most of the really good weapons in this game.

That might have been true if i hadnt heard that before for orthos prime earlier orthos earlier hate and even before all that scindo/fragor/gram. When new weapon is released and is more powerful it doesnt mean that everything before became crap but new thing is probably too powerful and this applies to everything not just galantine(though nerfing it would be really pointless looking at how weak melee is overall) 

[SquirmyBurrito]

That might have been true if i hadnt heard that before for orthos prime earlier orthos earlier hate and even before all that scindo/fragor/gram. When new weapon is released and is more powerful it doesnt mean that everything before became crap but new thing is probably too powerful and this applies to everything not just galantine(though nerfing it would be really pointless looking at how weak melee is overall) 

 

I don't see how that matters. The other melee weapons ARE crap. The Galatine is one of the only (if not the only) decent melee weapon in this game. If someone told you the Fragor wasn't OP they were telling the truth. That weapon is and was total crap when compared to the other types of weapons (primary and secondary).

 

The underlined text supports my stance.

Edited February 28, 2014 by SquirmyBurrito

[Davoodoo]

I don't see how that matters. The other melee weapons ARE crap. The Galatine is one of the only (if not the only) decent melee weapon in this game. If someone told you the Fragor wasn't OP they were telling the truth. That weapon is and was total crap when compared to the other types of weapons (primary and secondary).

 

The underlined text supports my stance.

You dont seem to understand so i will make it easier for you to understand

 

Before galantine was released i heard

"Orthos prime stand out primarily because they aren't complete and utter crap. Most other charge melee weapons are trash, but this doesn't make the Orthos prime OP. It just makes the other weapons UP. The same can be said for most of the really good weapons in this game."

 

Before orthos prime buff i heard 

"Orthos stand out primarily because they aren't complete and utter crap. Most other charge melee weapons are trash, but this doesn't make the Orthos OP. It just makes the other weapons UP. The same can be said for most of the really good weapons in this game."

 

Back in u7 before everything else was released i heard 

"gram/scindo/fragor stand out primarily because they aren't complete and utter crap. Most other charge melee weapons are trash, but this doesn't make the gram/scindo/fragor OP. It just makes the other weapons UP. The same can be said for most of the really good weapons in this game."

 

To put it simply, if next weapon would have more dps you would dump brakk/galantine/soma and say

"next weapon" stand out primarily because they aren't complete and utter crap. Most other weapons are trash, but this doesn't make the "next weapon" OP. It just makes the other weapons UP. The same can be said for most of the really good weapons in this game.

 

Justifying imbalance by acknowledging new op weapon as best and thus being only one worth using. 

 

Nerfing galantine at current time would do literally nothing, UP weapon will just get more UP but thats only when you look at overall balance, If melee would be buffed to match guns and galantine would still stand out, it should be high priority to balance it out cause then it will have an impact.

Edited February 28, 2014 by Davoodoo

[SquirmyBurrito]

You dont seem to understand so i will make it easier for you to understand

 

No, I just didn't agree with what you said. So I'll start this off by saying: I don't give a rat's arse what you claim to have heard before this weapon's release, or that weapon's buff. I don't. I was around at that time as well and never once heard that argument used. Primarily because that would be fallacious. Why? Because those weapons were ALL complete crap with or without their buffs. The Galatine is (arguably) the ONLY melee weapon worth using when your intention is causing damage and not zorencoptering. If the Galatine didn't exist I would just be saying (what I said before) that none of the melee weapons are worth using over your secondary and primary weapon. 

 

Before galantine was released i heard "Orthos prime stand out primarily because they aren't complete and utter crap. Most other charge melee weapons are trash, but this doesn't make the Orthos prime OP. It just makes the other weapons UP. The same can be said for most of the really good weapons in this game."

 

Cite the sources of these claims.

 

Before orthos prime buff i heard "Orthos stand out primarily because they aren't complete and utter crap. Most other charge melee weapons are trash, but this doesn't make the Orthos OP. It just makes the other weapons UP. The same can be said for most of the really good weapons in this game."

 

Cite the sources of these claims.

 

Back in u7 before everything else was released i heard "gram/scindo/fragor stand out primarily because they aren't complete and utter crap. Most other charge melee weapons are trash, but this doesn't make the gram/scindo/fragor OP. It just makes the other weapons UP. The same can be said for most of the really good weapons in this game."

 

Cite the sources of these claims. If you are going to ignore my previous requests for citation do not ignore this one. Because at the time the discussion of Scindo vs Fragor vs Gram was really just an argument over which turd was the shiniest as none of them were worth using for anything more than their knockdown.

 

To put it simply, if next weapon would have more dps you would dump brakk/galantine/soma and say "next weapon" stand out primarily because they aren't complete and utter crap. Most other weapons are trash, but this doesn't make the "next weapon" OP. It just makes the other weapons UP. The same can be said for most of the really good weapons in this game.

 

Do not put words in my mouth. My argument is restricted to the Galatine vs other melee weapons. It doesn't carry over into the realm of Primaries and Secondaries because good weapons exist in those categories.

 

Justifying imbalance by acknowledging new op weapon as best and thus being only one worth using. 

 

In the case of melee weapons, the main reason why the Galatine is (arguably) the only one worth using is because the other ones are crap. The Galatine is one of the only melee weapons that can be used as your main source of damage without gimping yourself too much in the dps department. The same can not be said for most of the melee weapons (I would say all with the only possible exception being the Orthos Prime).

 

Nerfing galantine at current time would do literally nothing, UP weapon will just get more UP but thats only when you look at overall balance, If melee would be buffed to match guns and galantine would still stand out, it should be high priority to balance it out cause then it will have an impact.

 

Nerfing the Galatine isn't worth it because it does nothing to solve the actual problem. That problem being the fact that most of the other melee weapons are so bad they aren't worth using with or without comparing them to the galatine. If my claim was false (that claim being that the Galatine isn't OP the other melee weapons are just UP) a nerf to the Galatine would solve the problem. This is not the case.

 

And just for ***** and giggles I'm going to play your game: Before the Galatine was released I heard "Melee weapons are too weak, none of them are worth using when you have ammo for your other two weapons." 

 

See, I can make up quotes that support my stance too.

 

Disclaimer: I am not saying that saying that one can't have fun while using [insert your favorite melee weapon here]; What I am saying is, those weapons do not do enough damage to be worth using instead of your primary and secondary.

Do not come at me with claims about how amazing your prova is when used with this super mod setup and a Loki/Ash/Saryn. I main Loki, I know how he affects melee weapon damage. So I don't need you acting as if I didn't take him into consideration.

Edited February 28, 2014 by SquirmyBurrito

[Tsoe]

Soon you will get tired of 1 shotting everything and join us elite, using crappy weapons forgotten by time and turning them into god weapons.

 

for some reason i love this comment

 

Edited March 1, 2014 by Tsoe

[Davoodoo]

No, I just didn't agree with what you said. So I'll start this off by saying: I don't give a rat's arse what you claim to have heard before this weapon's release, or that weapon's buff. I don't. I was around at that time as well and never once heard that argument used. Primarily because that would be fallacious. Why? Because those weapons were ALL complete crap with or without their buffs. The Galatine is (arguably) the ONLY melee weapon worth using when your intention is causing damage and not zorencoptering. If the Galatine didn't exist I would just be saying (what I said before) that none of the melee weapons are worth using over your secondary and primary weapon. 

 

 

Cite the sources of these claims.

 

 

Cite the sources of these claims.

 

 

Cite the sources of these claims. If you are going to ignore my previous requests for citation do not ignore this one. Because at the time the discussion of Scindo vs Fragor vs Gram was really just an argument over which turd was the shiniest as none of them were worth using for anything more than their knockdown.

 

 

Do not put words in my mouth. My argument is restricted to the Galatine vs other melee weapons. It doesn't carry over into the realm of Primaries and Secondaries because good weapons exist in those categories.

 

 

In the case of melee weapons, the main reason why the Galatine is (arguably) the only one worth using is because the other ones are crap. The Galatine is one of the only melee weapons that can be used as your main source of damage without gimping yourself too much in the dps department. The same can not be said for most of the melee weapons (I would say all with the only possible exception being the Orthos Prime).

 

 

Nerfing the Galatine isn't worth it because it does nothing to solve the actual problem. That problem being the fact that most of the other melee weapons are so bad they aren't worth using with or without comparing them to the galatine. If my claim was false (that claim being that the Galatine isn't OP the other melee weapons are just UP) a nerf to the Galatine would solve the problem. This is not the case.

 

And just for ***** and giggles I'm going to play your game: Before the Galatine was released I heard "Melee weapons are too weak, none of them are worth using when you have ammo for your other two weapons." 

 

See, I can make up quotes that support my stance too.

 

Disclaimer: I am not saying that saying that one can't have fun while using [insert your favorite melee weapon here]; What I am saying is, those weapons do not do enough damage to be worth using instead of your primary and secondary.

Do not come at me with claims about how amazing your prova is when used with this super mod setup and a Loki/Ash/Saryn. I main Loki, I know how he affects melee weapon damage. So I don't need you acting as if I didn't take him into consideration.

Im not gonna dig through half year of forums just to prove a point to someone who doesnt even care...

 

Problem is that galantine stands out and i said already "If melee would be buffed to match guns and galantine would still stand out" wouldnt mean that galantine is always least crappy melee and its fine, it would mean that instead of being problem only to melee it would be a problem to balance of all weapons and thus serious problem. I want to remove problem of crappy melee and any weapon standing out, you seem to want to keep few weapons standing out while everything else is not relevant.

 

If you want to play my game at least get you facts straight even after galantine was released melee is literally not worth using if you have ammo left.

[SquirmyBurrito]

Im not gonna dig through half year of forums just to prove a point to someone who doesnt even care...

 

Problem is that galantine stands out and i said already "If melee would be buffed to match guns and galantine would still stand out" wouldnt mean that galantine is always least crappy melee and its fine, it would mean that instead of being problem only to melee it would be a problem to balance of all weapons and thus serious problem. I want to remove problem of crappy melee and any weapon standing out, you seem to want to keep few weapons standing out while everything else is not relevant.

 

If you want to play my game at least get you facts straight even after galantine was released melee is literally not worth using if you have ammo left.

 

I'm not talking about hypotheticals, I'm talking about the here and now. I prefer (out of the two options given to me by you) that we have at least one usable melee weapon rather than that one weapon getting nerfed and we're left with nothing. When M2.0 comes along and fixes melee they can go ahead and balance it then. 

 

My facts are 'straight'. The Galatine is worth using until you get to content where it can no longer oneshot the enemies you're facing.That point is a fair bit higher than what it would be for most other melee weapons. If you're trying to say that NONE of the melee weapons are worth using then this entire thing of yours was a waste of time. There is no way to call the Galatine OP if it isn't even worth using AKA it is UP.

Edited February 28, 2014 by SquirmyBurrito

[NikolaiLev]

Soma is only op if you built it as the intended Crit build.   Yes it can melt enemies.  Which is why I only use it on things where I trully need that fire power.   Or want to speed a boss.   

 

Other then that.  the Penta is op the orgis is op.  Paris prime is op.  Dread. Boltor.  Akbolto.   etc etc etc.   hell ran some high 25+ missions with the default Braton.. and @_@ was melting people with that..    if you build any weapon up right, it can be op.  fact of the gaming world..   enjoy :3

 

If it can be built OP, it is.

 

Just because you can do "high missions" and succeed with a Braton doesn't mean it's overpowered.  Overpowered means something is, unintentionally or not, more powerful than other options in its class.  The Soma will have far more DPS than a Braton assume you're building properly, and that means it's overpowered.

[SquirmyBurrito]

If it can be built OP, it is.

 

Just because you can do "high missions" and succeed with a Braton doesn't mean it's overpowered.  Overpowered means something is, unintentionally or not, more powerful than other options in its class.  The Soma will have far more DPS than a Braton assume you're building properly, and that means it's overpowered.

 

DE wants/wanted a tier'd weapon system. The Braton is obviously not in the same tier as the Soma.

[Davoodoo]

DE wants/wanted a tier'd weapon system. The Braton is obviously not in the same tier as the Soma.

Though karak and tetra are and they are both inferior. 

Unless you want to tell me that there are 5 t1 assault rifles and 0 t2 ones

[SquirmyBurrito]

Though karak and tetra are and they are both inferior. 

Unless you want to tell me that there are 5 t1 assault rifles and 0 t2 ones

 

What makes you so sure the Karak is in the same tier as the Soma? And why does there have to be only two tiers? MK1-Braton is in T0, Braton is T1.

[Stephieee]

For having a Mastery Rank 6 requirement on it, it had better be good. There are so many lackluster primary weapons as it is. Couple that with the fact that pistols have better mods. What's so bad about having at least one decent rifle in the primary category?

[Davoodoo]

What makes you so sure the Karak is in the same tier as the Soma? And why does there have to be only two tiers? MK1-Braton is in T0, Braton is T1.

So braton dera tetra karak and grakata are all t1 assault rifles and we lack t2 assault rifle.

Its far from tiered system if it lacks even most generic weapon.

[(NSW)Omgwtfl9lbbl]

I'm expecting the Braton Prime to get buffed to be somewhere more on par with the higher tier weapons at some point.

[SquirmyBurrito]

So braton dera tetra karak and grakata are all t1 assault rifles and we lack t2 assault rifle.

Its far from tiered system if it lacks even most generic weapon.

 

Again, why are you assuming that there are only two tiers? Do you even know what a tier'd weapon system is? Any good tier'd system is going to have numerous tiers (way more than 2). 

 

T0- MK1- Braton

T1- Braton

T2- Braton Prime

TX Soma

Get it now?

[LazyKnight]

So braton dera tetra karak and grakata are all t1 assault rifles and we lack t2 assault rifle.

Its far from tiered system if it lacks even most generic weapon.

I have to agree that DE is inconsistent with the rifles. The only good thing about Karak is that its burst DPS is rather good, and this is due to its fire-rate; It is a gun that seems like it should hit harder than Soma because of its limited magazine.  The Tetra, Dera and Braton prime are side-grades in mediocrity, outstripped by most secondary weapons.

 

DE made too many rifles under single Magnus DPS territory. I guess they thought it didn't matter because they were safe and easy to just release into the game without fear they are overpowered.

 

Soma might be better than the rifles, but it is fairly average when compared to pistols...

Edited March 2, 2014 by LazyKnight

[Galatea]

I was interested on picking up the Soma when I first reached rank six, but I almost exclusively run dread, or latron prime as a primary...arrow travel time is interesting to me and leading targets correctly or having the marksman accuracy / reward for accuracy drew me more than the firehose of death approach.

[Davoodoo]

Again, why are you assuming that there are only two tiers? Do you even know what a tier'd weapon system is? Any good tier'd system is going to have numerous tiers (way more than 2). 

 

T0- MK1- Braton

T1- Braton

T2- Braton Prime

TX Soma

Get it now?

Tiered system sorts weapons into categories then each category gets increased power variant on each tier(if you have multiple tiers like 20 its fine to skip some weapon types on few tiers).

 

Problem is that you cannot get weapon comparable to soma in most categories, atm comparable to soma primaries are.

Boar prime - have tons of disadvantages, ammo inefficiency, low accuracy limiting its dps and low range

Synapse - still lower dps and again disadvantage of range.

Latron prime - this thing have no disadvantages imo, some may say that it punishes missed shots

Bows - Much lower dps, most of dps goes into overkill, they punish missed shots

Burston prime - calcs consider this as firing 10 burts per second which is impossible to achieve, actual dps is way lower than soma, besides that it have no downsides.

And thats pretty much it, skipped penta on purpose

Sorry but only 6 weapons in top tier?? thats bad, and only 4 of them being generic ones, thats even worse.

 

Thats without a doubt worst tiered system ive ever seen.

All assault rifles are t1 or poorly balanced

Only semi auto/pump shotguns we have are t1 (strun, hek)

Sniper rifles are underperfoming in their tiers(snipetron, vulkar, lanka, vectis no matter if you put them all in t1 or put lanka and vectis in t2 theres imbalance anyway), if you consider more tiers then we lack endgame sniper rifles

[Overrate]

I feel like Soma isn't even OP in damage wise. There are a lot better guns out there.