Omg Soma Is Op! What The Hell O.o

[Demon-King-Lamb]

The Soma is only good for enemies lower than 30. Anything higher than that. Your better off with a different gun. It's pellet style projectile like the Grakata is not very good anymore. There was a time it was the King of Rifles. Not any more.

[Letter13]

Weapon feedback?

 

Weapon feedback.

[fatpig84]

Soma isn't even as good as the other rifle or shotgun now shhhh

[DudeBro79]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqEdgMHjBhOHdFk1dTBxQUdoOXBmOTN2TTFkTjBvTUE&usp=sharing#gid=6

 

According to GottFaust's DPS Ranking Chart, Burston Prime is the top DPS, followed by Phage (and Hind, of all things?)

 

So many people are crying for nerfs to what appears to be a completely middle-of-the-road weapon. The Soma's advantage is that it's easy to use, is all.

[Inez]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqEdgMHjBhOHdFk1dTBxQUdoOXBmOTN2TTFkTjBvTUE&usp=sharing#gid=6

 

According to GottFaust's DPS Ranking Chart, Burston Prime is the top DPS, followed by Phage (and Hind, of all things?)

 

So many people are crying for nerfs to what appears to be a completely middle-of-the-road weapon. The Soma's advantage is that it's easy to use, is all.

So the Burston Prime does more than 4 times the dps of a Soma? LOL!

People have actually used and put multiple forma into both these guns . . .

[LazyKnight]

So the Burston Prime does more than 4 times the dps of a Soma? LOL!

People have actually used and put multiple forma into both these guns . . .

Talk to Gottfaust, because snide comments are pointless.

Edited February 27, 2014 by LazyKnight

[SquirmyBurrito]

Talk to Gottfaust, because snide comments are pointless.

 

...so dpsframe is no longer reliable?

[LazyKnight]

...so dpsframe is no longer reliable?

DPSFrame does not count any status effects, and never has. The Gas, slash, electric and Viral effects need to be factored. When a weapon maxed out Dread can get ticking bleed Proc doing 2k+ damage, they can't be ignored.

 

GottFaust lets people look at the source code used: If you find a bug report it.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/90706-unofficial-weapon-dps-calculator-current-v054/

Edited February 27, 2014 by LazyKnight

[SquirmyBurrito]

DPSFrame does not count any status effects, and never has. The Gas, slash, electric and Viral effects need to be factored. When a weapon maxed out Dread can get ticking bleed Proc doing 2k+ damage, they can't be ignored.

 

GottFaust lets people look at the source code used: If you find a bug report it.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/90706-unofficial-weapon-dps-calculator-current-v054/

 

I wasn't doubting his/her info. I was just asking a question. No need for me to bookmark both if one is unreliable.

[Brahmastra]

But it needs nerf... I don't even like soma (i hate that machine guns get all the love, when i started to play it was gorgon .. and now soma? see the pattern? ) 

That's just how the game works.. when I started playing it was all about the Boltor or the Hek.. then clan tech game synapse flux etc.

[neKroMancer]

Soma is good but rather boring weapon imo. However, I enjoy AOE like Castana, Penta, and Ignis. Vortex + AOE weapon = cheap mass killing. 

[SquirmyBurrito]

But it needs nerf... I don't even like soma (i hate that machine guns get all the love, when i started to play it was gorgon .. and now soma? see the pattern? ) 

 

No it doesn't. The Soma is a shining example of a weapon done well. Nerfing it would just make it garbage.

[Inez]

Talk to Gottfaust, because snide comments are pointless.

How is this snide? I'm stating a fact: there are people with experience with both Soma and Burston Prime, each multi-formaed. Every single one of those people will assure you that there is absolutely no way Burston Prime is doing 4 times the dps of Soma. Theoretical math is fun and interesting, but it doesn't always reflect reality.

DPSFrame does not count any status effects, and never has. The Gas, slash, electric and Viral effects need to be factored. When a weapon maxed out Dread can get ticking bleed Proc doing 2k+ damage, they can't be ignored.

 

GottFaust lets people look at the source code used: If you find a bug report it.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/90706-unofficial-weapon-dps-calculator-current-v054/

The fact of the matter is no one knows how Warframe calculates which element will proc. Which is why no one tries to calculate the dps of status effects. It would be awesome of DE to come out tell us the formula for this, maybe with DE staff being admins for the wiki now we'll get info like this. And once we have this info, everyone who calculates dps will include procs too.

[LazyKnight]

How is this snide? I'm stating a fact: there are people with experience with both Soma and Burston Prime, each multi-formaed. Every single one of those people will assure you that there is absolutely no way Burston Prime is doing 4 times the dps of Soma. Theoretical math is fun and interesting, but it doesn't always reflect reality.

I wouldn't have done that chart that used his calculator and ranked things with gas + electric, as it requires assuming that you have a patchwrek like boss that lasts a very long time.

 

I have a bunch of weapons that I test various DPS builds ( I do not just believe anyone's chart because of the wiki's lies) with: a 5 forma'd burston prime, 4 forma'd Soma, 5 forma hind, 5 forma phage, 5 forma'd Latron prime, 6 forma'd synapse, 4 Vectis, 4 forma'd dread, and a few others. The only damage mods I do not have is primed chamber.

 

I know that things do not live long enough to for that build used in that chart to be a useful benchmark. Gas last something like 9 ticks(not sure exact count in second, but 8 ticks after application for gas and toxin) and can stack, I spent time testing it on  level 70+ NPC.

 

The Viral + radiation (or heat) would have made a more believable chart, because triggering a viral effect lowers total health for 6 seconds, and it magnify effectiveness of DPS, but B-prime would be nowhere near 4x soma when done that way.

Edited February 27, 2014 by LazyKnight

[NikolaiLev]

So, I was toying around with many a gun during my time leveling from mastery rank 1-6. Pretty much every blueprint I could get off the market I built and tried out for a little bit (pre rank 6), and found a few weapons I really enjoyed. 

 

The AKVasto's are AMAZING pistols. Would never need other pistols ever again with em. Flexable, dmg monsters, solid fire rate, good feel, good projectile travel speed, solid base states. All around badass guns.

 

Then there was the Galatine. Holy S#&$, a sword after my own heart. Yeah the orthos prime has higher stats, but this sword still wrecks S#&$ in one charge attack regardless, so I see no need to run after a stick they use to get clothing off high shelves with at old navey (orthos prime is SO lame looking compared to the normal orthos(dat chrono cross weapon)).

 

Then came the assault rifles. I never really seemed to find one I felt was truly badass. Even when forma'd a bunch of times these things always fell short in damage to the akvasto's and galatine. I felt like there was nothing actually strong out there AR wise and kinda gave up on me. Until...

 

SOMA!!!!

 

WHAT THE HELL DE!! This thing WRECKS everything on any amount of legs at all times! The akvastos dont even compare to it! o.o

 

Was this intended? Did I stumble on to the end all be all gun in the game? or do they get even stronger then this at higher ranks? or are there even guns for higher ranks????

 

If this isnt intended btw, are the other guns gonna be brought closer to the soma in power without needing formas to even come close? Seems so odd.

 

Yes, it's overpowered.  Yes, it's intended, because that allowed the Soma to sell at a higher rate than it would've.  No, it probably won't be nerfed, because this has been an issue for months.  They actually tried nerfing the Soma, but of course the vocal minority started complaining and they reverted most of the nerf.

 

DE doesn't really care about balance.  See: Marelok, Brakk, Galatine, Penta, Stug, etc..

Edited February 27, 2014 by NikolaiLev

[LazyKnight]

The fact of the matter is no one knows how Warframe calculates which element will proc.

I would be very happy if DE told people how the proc were truly calculated. I do not like this guessing game, and they are adding so MANY high status chance weapons that it starting to become mandatory to know this stuff.

Edited February 27, 2014 by LazyKnight

[Inez]

GottFaust lets people look at the source code used: If you find a bug report it.

 

 

I have a bunch of weapons that I test various DPS builds ( I do not just believe anyone's chart because of the wiki's lies) with:

So you ask people to vet code for free, and then complain that a wiki has lies? You can edit the wiki. I'm guessing that editing the wiki takes much less time than vetting code. And then you'd be sharing your info with the whole community.

And talking about the 'wiki's lies' while making ridiculous claims about the Burston Prime's dps is pretty crazy.

[LazyKnight]

And talking about the 'wiki's lies' while making ridiculous claims about the Burston Prime's dps is pretty crazy.

The wiki is wrong as of this post on Dread's non charged critical chance. I can find errors on many of the pages because it keeps getting edited by clueless people. I could make a list of things on the wiki that are wrong as of this post.

 

The burston DPS is around 13.8k if status effects were zero. The burst lag makes this a range of 11-13k depending on frame rate.

 

Using this build all maxed:

serration

Spilt chamber

Heavy caliber

Speed Trigger

Cyro round

malignant force

Hellfire

Storm bringer

 

The problem with this assessment of 13.8k is B-Prime proc often, and no matter how you look at DPS numbers something that Procs  2x as often has higher resulting DPS.

 

If you want to argue the effectiveness of the proc talks to GottFaust directly, I am sick of your snide remarks. If you can't be bothered to even look at just Viral's effectiveness of just reducing HP, than you are beyond help.

Edited February 27, 2014 by LazyKnight

[SquirmyBurrito]

See: Marelok, Brakk, Galatine, Penta, Stug, etc..

 

I have no idea where the Marelok stands, but, the rest (especially) the Galatine) stand out primarily because they aren't complete and utter crap. Most other charge melee weapons are trash, but this doesn't make the Galatine OP. It just makes the other weapons UP. The same can be said for most of the really good weapons in this game.

[Inez]

LazyKnight, on 27 Feb 2014 - 11:14 AM, said:

The wiki is wrong as of this post on Dread's non charged critical chance. I can find errors on many of the pages because it keeps getting edited by clueless people. I could make a list of things on the wiki that are wrong as of this post.

You can edit the wiki too. As far as I know, anyone can. And people sometimes make mistakes. Calling them 'lies' is kinda harsh.

LazyKnight, on 27 Feb 2014 - 11:14 AM, said:

The burston DPS is around 13.8k if status effects were zero. The burst lag makes this a range of 11-13k depending on frame rate.

Using this build all maxed:

serration

Spilt chamber

Heavy caliber

Speed Trigger

Cyro round

malignant force

Hellfire

Storm bringer

Speed Trigger has a minimal effect on the Burston Prime's dps. I'm guessing that you assume Speed Trigger is an overall 60% increase in the overall firerate. The actual increase is very minimal (I don't have the numbers in front of me, I can get them if you want).

LazyKnight, on 27 Feb 2014 - 11:14 AM, said:

The problem with this assessment of 13.8k is B-Prime proc often, and no matter how you look at DPS numbers something that Procs 2x as often has higher resulting DPS.

If you want to argue the effectiveness of the proc talks to GottFaust directly, I am sick of your snide remarks. If you can't be bothered to even look at just Viral's effectiveness of just reducing HP, than you are beyond help.

You're vastly overvaluing the dps of procs. Look at the value of the procs you're getting while you play.

And there's no way to mathematically quantify the value of viral procs anyway. If you're fighting level 25 infested, the viral procs make no noticeable difference. If you're fighting level 150 napalms, the Soma and Burston Prime will each do about the same dps from viral procs since they can't stack. They will each eventually proc viral (the Burston Prime will do it quicker). And then the Burston Prime's increased status rate has no effect for the duration of viral.

Yes, status chance affects dps But arguing that that procs are gonna more than quadruple its comparative dps to Soma is disingenuous.

[NikolaiLev]

I have no idea where the Marelok stands, but, the rest (especially) the Galatine) stand out primarily because they aren't complete and utter crap. Most other charge melee weapons are trash, but this doesn't make the Galatine OP. It just makes the other weapons UP. The same can be said for most of the really good weapons in this game.

 

No, the galatine is definitely overpowered in comparison to the rest of the weapons.  If melee was blanket buffed (and it will be) to the point where weapons like the Dual Ether were useful, the galatine would be stupidly overpowered unless it was not buffed as much as others.

 

As for the Marelok?  A mere glance at its stats is all you need to realize it's horrifically overpowered.

[LazyKnight]

 I'm guessing that you assume Speed Trigger is an overall 60% increase in the overall firerate.

Nope, no assumptions made by me about the fire-rate. I have known how burst-fire worked since back when U8 when data mined info was released.

 

You're vastly overvaluing the dps of procs. Look at the value of the procs you're getting while you play.

Most of the damage dots stack, and they last a long time. Gas and toxin stacks tick 8 times, and electric does burst damage. They add to DPS only when the target lives a long time. Again I say that chart about them is absurd it would take a meat slab boss for that to be relevant.

 

And there's no way to mathematically quantify the value of viral procs anyway.

Yeah, there is a way to figure out how many hits it will take on average to get a single Viral proc. No, I am not claiming the B-Prime can do 4x Soma's damage with a viral build. It wouldn't be that high, as it be more likely than not trigger a viral proc quicker and need half as much damage to kill a target.

 

Infested have a massive resistance to viral, they are kind of the worst example you could have picked.

Edited February 27, 2014 by LazyKnight

[SquirmyBurrito]

No, the galatine is definitely overpowered in comparison to the rest of the weapons.  

 

Please elaborate, because from where I stand the Galatine just looks like a decent weapon surrounded by turds. Which wouldn't make it overpowered, it would just mean the other weapons are hilariously underpowered (and they are). Melee as a whole is underpowered when compared to the other weapons.

 

If melee was blanket buffed (and it will be) to the point where weapons like the Dual Ether were useful, the galatine would be stupidly overpowered unless it was not buffed as much as others. As for the Marelok?  A mere glance at its stats is all you need to realize it's horrifically overpowered.

 

If melee weapons were buffed to be on par with secondaries and primaries and the galatine was scaled up with that buff. Then I would agree that it was overpowered.

 

I haven't looked into the Marelok, where does it stand incomparison to things like the Brakk and AkMagnus?

[LazyKnight]

I haven't looked into the Marelok, where does it stand incomparison to things like the Brakk and AkMagnus?

Counting raw DPS only for Marelok: Somewhere between AkMagnus and Detron. Marelok has a very high status effect chance, and would likely be one of the better weapons.

Edited February 27, 2014 by LazyKnight

[Methanoid]

it used to be MR3 until part way thru u10.