They Does Marelok Have Higher Damage Than Grinlok?

[Genoscythe]

Really, this is quite a problem for me.

 

 

Marelok is better in every way than its "bigger brother". It has the same magazine, but faster reload, fire rate and damage.

 

This, taken together with the possible 180% multishot, 220% more damage from hornet strike and the possible 87.5% status chance make me ask myself why we even use main weapons. if I had a brakk as primary and a marelok as secondary I would be better of than with synapse or soma.

 

I suggest buffing the Grinlok a bit. It doesnt have the damage potential because heavy caliber would completely ruin the gun.

 

Any opinions on this?

 

[LoRd_MePh1sTo]

hey will nerf marelok for put akmarelok.

[Drlathe]

Well its described as a 'sawed-off' version of grinlock, so it makes sense that it would do more damage. Maybe not a higher fire rate, but certainly higher damage.

[Namacyst]

Well its described as a 'sawed-off' version of grinlock, so it makes sense that it would do more damage. Maybe not a higher fire rate, but certainly higher damage.

 

Shouldn't it have damage falloff then?

[Elvang]

Sawed-off weapons don't inherently do more damage, just incredible amounts of spread.

[Dalu__Ka]

Marelok has a smaller ammo pool, and it uses pistol ammo.

But buffing the Grinlock is fine by me :)

[JohnProdman]

Because logic.

[BlakChimera]

180% vs 90% multishot

165% damage vs 220% damage

What i am getting at is that sidearms have better mods compared to primary weapons.

[BadAimbot]

Grinlok can build Crit on it thanks to that sexy 2x Crit Damage and the Rifle Crit mods not being garbage (Hammer Shot in particular). It's also far, far more easy to use due to the nonexistent recoil, leading to lots of headshots. If anything, I would be complaining how the Grinlok makes the Latron Prime look like a sissy.

 

Also, the Marelok might as well be unusable. The AkMarelok will come, mark my words, and on that day, the gun will be obsolete, like the Lex and the Vasto before it.

[Genoscythe]

Grinlok can build Crit on it thanks to that sexy 2x Crit Damage and the Rifle Crit mods not being garbage (Hammer Shot in particular). It's also far, far more easy to use due to the nonexistent recoil, leading to lots of headshots. If anything, I would be complaining how the Grinlok makes the Latron Prime look like a sissy.

 

Also, the Marelok might as well be unusable. The AkMarelok will come, mark my words, and on that day, the gun will be obsolete, like the Lex and the Vasto before it.

 

Grinloks highest DPS is MUCH lower than that of marelok, if you do a crit grinlok versus a damage marelok build, you will have about 9k difference in dps, with marelok being much better.

 

And yeah, akmarelok, then it will be even more OP.

[Khunvyel]

If it is based on the Grinlok, and the barrel is just cut down, and the rifle butt removed, why doesn't it have like... abysmal accuracy? Wasn't it that way, and then a stealth hotfix upped the initial accuracy? Can anyone confirm this? Because if it was that way, well... I would have preferred it the old Marelok. Lemme quote; "So inaccurate, but so awesome!"   and   "God help you all if I actually HIT something!"

 

To be fair, I am very happy about the addition of a marksman rifle that fits the anti-corpus region, like the Latron chews through everything with armor. I just feel like the Grinlok looks more like a sniper rifle just from stats. Increase clip size to something like 10 or 12, double fire rate, reduce damage accordingly and then we have a very comparable model to the Latron, for different needs.

 

But wait, I digress. This is about Marelok, so:

 

tl;dr

Based on an existing rifle, the Marelok should under no circumstance have more damage per shot, and should have even worse accuracy, considering it misses a rifle butt and has a sawed off barrel.

[BladeMaverick]

The only problem is that with the Marelok, you can't snipe for jack after mid-range. Try taking out a target across the map for a headshot and see where you hit. Wall. Wall. Enemy to the side of him. Wall. Body shot. Wall. HEADSHOT. Wall. It's got some nasty spread, even at mid range.

 

So damage, yes it's pretty high, but you can't use it like a Lex or Vasto for a pocket sniper for longer range engagements.

[LazyKnight]

Is your title supposed to say, "Why does Marelok have higher damage than Grinlok?"

 

To stay on topic: Grinlok has a few issues, as its damage per second is rather low and it is entirely dependent on its status effects for its damage per hit. It would not hurt to bump its critical chance to 20% or higher.

Edited March 4, 2014 by LazyKnight

[[DE]Momaw]

Grinlok may not be called a sniper rifle and it may not use sniper ammo, but it IS a sniper rifle. It has very high damage, very high accuracy, and gods help you if you miss because it's a bloody awkward weapon to shoot and reload. Every shot must connect, and kill, for Grinlok to reach its full potential.

 

Because of that, building for crits on it is a total waste. 15% critical chance? Times 1.5 is 22.5% chance. Times two bullets with Split Chamber, and the chance of any given squeeze of the trigger going critical comes out at 40%.  That's not enough to be reliable. Every mod you stack for lucky criticals is a slot you could have used for raw, works-every-time damage to keep those essential one shot kills coming longer.

 

Marelok is better in every way except long range accuracy, and this is not a game which is decided by long range accuracy.  I very much feel like Grinlok was a wasted investment.

[unclebubba]

Because of that, building for crits on it is a total waste. 15% critical chance? Times 1.5 is 22.5% chance. Times two bullets with Split Chamber, and the chance of any given squeeze of the trigger going critical comes out at 40%.  

Your math is wrong. The crit mod gives 150% extra critical for rifles. That's 15% * 2.5 for 37.5% base crit. Point strike at 100% doubles crit, 150% is 2.5x.

[LazyKnight]

tl;dr

Based on an existing rifle, the Marelok should under no circumstance have more damage per shot, and should have even worse accuracy, considering it misses a rifle butt and has a sawed off barrel.

Having 10 accuracy is in the range of having zero predictability. The number shown in the Ui is a dummy number, but can be thought of as expression of how much deviation it has from the reticle. If Marelok's zoom function is weak it is affected by a significant amount by having lower accuracy.

Edited March 4, 2014 by LazyKnight

[[DE]Momaw]

Your math is wrong. The crit mod gives 150% extra critical for rifles. That's 15% * 2.5 for 37.5% base crit. Point strike at 100% doubles crit, 150% is 2.5x.

 

Fair enough.

 

So you build for crits it's 37.5% chance per bullet, or 61% chance per split-shot.  Which means there's a slightly better than even chance to do a critical hit to kill an enemy outright, and a slightly less than even chance to do a non-critical hit that won't.  With a weapon that shoots slowly and only holds 6 rounds...

 

My basic point is that because Grinlok can't do RELIABLE critical hits and is not not even remotely a "DPS" weapon, the critical hits are a wasted feature. Either it kills in one shot and is a good weapon, or it doesn't, and isn't. Latron Prime is much superior for crit builds because it has twice the rate of fire and twice the rounds between reloads, which means doing a double-tap to almost certainly get a nasty critical hit is a practical tactic.

[Khunvyel]

Having 10 accuracy is in the range of having zero predictability. The number shown in the Ui is a dummy number, but can be thought of as expression of how much deviation it has from the reticle. If Marelok's zoom function is weak it is affected by a significant amount by having lower accuracy.

 

As I mentioned in that other topic;

 

I just saw the accuracy value, and I would retract part of my statement if it really is a bother to hit things. I wouldn't go much lower than 10, it already seems unforgiving enough. The existing damage is still... letting me sit here completely flabbergasted.

 

PERHAPS down to 8. I mean, a good number of akimbo weapons have an accuracy lower than 10, which means that is absolutely within the realm of possibility.

However.

This also has me afraid of what the AkMarelok is going to look like in terms of accuracy. There is only one Akimbo weapon which retained it's single-version accuracy rating, and that was the Akbolto, if memory serves me correctly. If single Marelok keeps 10, I can totally see the Akmarelok having 6.

Fun!

 

(( and people will STILL complain about how OP it is on a DPS chart... when in reality you need to stick the Akmarelok right onto the chest of an unfortunate Corpus to actually hit something. But hey, forum math charts vs. real application. Gotta love it ))

[LazyKnight]

(( and people will STILL complain about how OP it is on a DPS chart... when in reality you need to stick the Akmarelok right onto the chest of an unfortunate Corpus to actually hit something. But hey, forum math charts vs. real application. Gotta love it ))

I am starting to wonder if DE forgets, what other weapons exist when they make new weapons.

 

A single Marelok is better than a single Magnus, even when considering the accuracy differences and fire-rate. It is becoming more obvious that DE is not using tiers at all, or considers a Magnus cheap and disposable. Tysis is also just worse that Marelok as well, because the raw damage per hit difference it too great.

 

The weird think is Grinlok is rather bad when compared to Latron prime, which begs the question "What tier are these lever action weapons supposed to be in?"

[Khunvyel]

I am starting to wonder if DE forgets, what other weapons exist when they make new weapons.

 

A single Marelok is better than a single Magnus

In this case, I have to politely remind you that Marelok is a Clan-research weapon requiring Mastery Rank 5 to use, whereas Magnus requires no clan-research and has zero mastery requirements. It is called tiered weaponry for a reason.

So even if people are seeking to purchase the Marelok with Platinum, they need the Rank requirement prior to that before.

 

The problem many of us have when looking at new weapons is that we forget the initial requirements, since many of us are already past R6.

[LazyKnight]

The problem many of us have when looking at new weapons is that we forget the initial requirements, since many of us are already past R6.

You missed my point. Even if they are using tiers, Grinlok is inferior to primes and other weapons of T2. It is either Grinlok is not balanced right or Marelok isn't. Grinlok is by no means worthy of mastery rank 5, let alone a rank lock at all.

[Namacyst]

DE's arbitrary way of implementing and balancing weapons is nothing that surprises me anymore to be honest :/

[Khunvyel]

Indeed I missed the point, my apologies. I was simply picking up what was in the quote I took from you, in terms of comparison between a R5 weapon that is better than a R0 one. If you view it from the angle you just mentioned, then there are certain things to reconsider in terms of where they want to have their distribution of weapons in the tier.

 

In general, it is a bit difficult to place them. It is very easy to put weapons into a ranking when you only need materials collected via starmap missions and have a Mastery Rank requirement. Where and how are clan-research exclusivity factored in to this? Where and how are Void-only weapons factored in this? Because the Latron Prime requires zero mastery, last time I checked, but it performs incredibly well.