My Thoughts On Ember

[8r8kSpider]

Alright so this has been irritating me for a long time, and I guess this post has been a long time coming. I've seen a few threads up about Warframe balance and Nova and I just want to get a few things out of my head and onto these boards since I've talked them to death with my friends.

 

I want to see Ember's overheat back, I don't know why it was removed in the first place. Accelerant is a joke of a replacement ability, it's supposed to make people more vulnerable to fire, and it does that, it does what it's supposed to do, fine, but it doesn't do enough. Nova is maddeningly OP, but when you compare Ember to frames like Valkyr, Saryn, or Volt, she's laughably weak. Volt can shieldtank, Saryn has tons of health and does staggering damage, literally, Valkyr is well... terrifying. What does Ember have? She's supposed to be best suited to fighting the Infested, who do what? Rush you. She has no health, no armor, no shields, and the stagger of Accelerant doesn't even give you enough time to get off her Ult, more to the point, how sad is it that you have to use two of her powers, or more, to accomplish the same thing most frames get with a single button press?

 

Overheat could be retooled, I'm not asking for it to return exactly as it was (besides it was worked on so many times I'm not even sure what you would call "as it was"). But consider this, what if, instead of causing more radial fire damage, it acted as damage resistance with a 100% chance to fire proc people around her, for minimal levels of damage. It could have a reduced duration, even. Just something to make Ember not so frighteningly weak if she gets caught by infested. The stagger of Accelerant lasts just long enough for you to maybe get off a fireblast and try to run, that's not going to do anything to help you escape a situation where you're separated from your team and want to get back to them.

 

It could potentially make her run faster, be more tooled around utility instead of damage or defense, make her evasive. Hell, it doesn't even have to be overheat, but Ember needs some ability to give her some degree of surviveability. She use to fit this nice niche of being able to deal high damage while taking some fair damage before falling over, now, she's a glass canon like Nova, without even half of Nova's damage potential, and that's just not fair. If Accellerant must stay, it needs to slow enemies like Molecular Prime, it needs to do more, right now it's a frustrating ability I feel I should not need in order to do damage.

 

My biggest problem here isn't even that Ember's so weak, she does enough damage to get away with killing things before they hurt her at lower levels, but there comes a point when she just stops being as effective. She used to have her own niche in this game, she was well-rounded, she had defensive abilities, mobility, and offensive abilities, now she's just mobile and offensive, a glass cannon like Nova, the problem is she's nowhere NEAR as powerful as Nova is, and that's simply not fair. Her Prime got only two polarities, compared to every other frame's three, and yes, I know they're different, making that point, at best, is distracting the argument away from the fact that you can have only two mods at half cost compared to three, which is a loss overall compared to other primes.

 

I understand the reasoning behind giving her an ability to allow her to make more health types vulnerable to fire in Damage 2.0, but the simple fact is it's just not enough, they took away her Niche, locked her in the same slot as Nova, without giving her anywhere near as much power. Granted Nova makes almost every other frame look weak, but at least other frames have other options than just raw damage output, poor little Ember doesn't. It frankly makes me feel a little like someone at DE has a problem with Ember, or that she's just so low on the priorities that sticking her in a corner for a while was never intent so much as neglect. Either way, I feel she should be addressed, and that if anything, if ANY frame should be examined for retooling, the next frame that needs retooled is Nova, it just is, if DE doesn't want to make literally every other frame as powerful? She needs to be brought down to the same level as the other frames. I feel that Ember, and then Frost's retooling, especially given the whole argument that "we changed the abilities because people were tired of only using one ability" just feels so hollow when Nova only needs one power, and has been left that way. Please, DE, strongly consider that if you're going to start rebalancing frames at all, you're going to have to address all of them, and some need the attention more badly than others.

 

Ultimately, I want every frame in this game to be viable in their own way for play even on higher levels, and that Ember is just not as viable as she used to be. Please figure out a way to do this, make her more agile, give her a better stun, give her a way to reduce incoming damage, give her something to alter her away from being a "pure damage" frame that sits in the shadow of Nova and put her back into her own little niche of "well balanced primarily offensive frame".

Edited March 9, 2014 by 8r8kSpider

[Hyunsai]

Just for information, how reliable is the stun of Accelerant ?

[8r8kSpider]

In my experience it's not even 100% chance, I think the problem may be that an enemy who has been affected by accelerant cannot then be stunned a second time. I'm not sure, though I believe certain enemies are immune to the stun effect? Honestly regardless of the reason I've never experienced it being reliable, and more to the point, even when it is working "as intended" and stuns everything around me, they stay stunned for a very brief period, and usually are shooting me again before I can finish casting WoF.

[RebornsAlmark]

+1, her utility is severely lacking. However, a well-modded Accelerant can make Ember against higher levels, and if DE does decide to bring back Overheat the skill that should be replaced for it is Fire Blast. Accelerant only stuns for about 2 seconds I believe and has pretty short range, a buff on its stun duration and/or range would be nice.

Edited March 9, 2014 by RebornsAlmark

[GrogBeard]

Since her ult requires you to be near enemies for a duration of time, taking away her damage reduction ability didn't make sense to me either. Overheat provided people a choice, because speccing into full ability duration was hard to do with full power, and efficiency. Now there is nothing to do except, like Nova, spec into full power, range and efficiency.

 

This issue touches on another which people should be talking about, which is that this game is entirely ability-centric. Nerfing passive tanking, with the repercussions of Damage 2.0, made abilities the only place to go for both offensive and defensive play styles. Maybe it only looks like this cause I have fleeting expertise and am at MR13, but rather than having an ability that makes you go super-saiyan, wouldn't it be cooler to have an ability that modified your weapons? Or changed how you use them? Maybe have certain abilities that interact more with firearms and melee weapons, like nova's anti-matter drop.

[ChozoFury]

So far in my time with Ember she has been a fairly low potential frame, I agree. However lately I've had more chances to use her and find her to be a fairly competent frame of balance between power use and standing power. In level 40+ enemies yes, she starts to lose impact, but I've had that problem with nearly every frame and weapon (save for nova and the penta) so it doesn't really come as a surprise to me, since past lvl 40 it's considered to be when hard mode is really enabled.

 

As far as accelerant is concerned, I've found it to be quite effective in cracking the harder targets for fireball spam, cutting the needed hits down by at least half.

Edited March 9, 2014 by ChozoFury

[SoulEchelon]

*sighs*

 

I'm just going to post what I posted in another thread, as well as a quote from that thread too.

 

Removal of overheat was not a nerf. My primary build for Ember Prime is using ONLY the replacement skill Accelarant and weapons stacked for fire damage. it yields better damage bonuses with the WRONG damage type than anything can get naturally with the BEST damage type on the Damage 2.0 chart using fewer mods freeing up slots for MORE damage... plus it's a spammable CC + clutch dodge.

 

Sorry that people liked overheat, but we won that trade off. We won that trade real hard, and Ember became supremely effective at higher levels when her powers don't instagib everything anymore, because she can fall back on her guns and melee with fire mods.

 

This.

 

The removal of overheat simply made Ember back into what she was supposed to be - a true wildfire. Overheat instead made her into a tank, which is not what she was supposed to be.

 

People enjoy bashing Accelerant, but it's an extremely effective tool. Makes everything susceptible to fire while also staggering everyone around you. It has a surprisingly wide range as well - even without Stretch (I don't use Stretch on my Ember). Here's a few good weapon mod setups for each faction while using Ember w/Accelerant.

 

Corpus = Cold+Lightning(Magnetic), then Fire on its own.

Infested = Elec+Toxin(Corrosive), then Fire on its own.

Grineer = same as Infested or Cold+Toxin(Viral), then Fire on its own.

 

Some pretty epic damage going on right there, buddy.

 

Another ability people just shrug about is Fireball. I've been using it pretty consistently, and it's -heavily- underestimated. 100% "on fire" proc, which stuns enemies for quite a good amount of time. At max rank, it does a surprisingly good sized aoe that also lights enemies on fire. Not to mention, it feels -damn- good. Shakes the screen just a little bit while the sound and impact looks and feels like you just destroyed something. Its damage really isn't bad at all either, even without Accelerant. Two shots can take out most level 20-30 enemies.

 

Long story short....People knee-jerked themselves off a cliff when it came to Ember. Those of us who actually took the time to relearn how to play her and use her skills effectively aren't walking with canes like the knee-jerkers are. And for that, Ember slid her tongue down our throats...And it was good..until the burning began....and the bubbling....Gotta eat out of a tube directly injected into my stomach now...but it was worth it.

(If someone didn't get that Ember tongue joke:

)

 

------

 

I want to also add, that I've been playing Ember since around the time I joined Warframe in Feb of last year. She was my second warframe (first being Excal as a starter 'frame). When I used Overheat when it was at its most powerful, I balked at it. My Ember wasn't "Ember". She was Rhino, and I hated Rhino. As stated earlier in my post, the removal of Overheat and the addition of Accelerant made her into what she should be, and thanks to the power Accelerant gives+ its crowd control capabilities as well as the buffs to her other abilities, she's still viable at endgame. My non-forma'd Ember is proof of that.

 

Edit: I'll also post the thread as well: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/192187-ember-builds-since-the-nerf/ Quite a few good takes on how to play as Ember post Overheat removal.

Edited March 9, 2014 by SoulEchelon

[8r8kSpider]

That's beyond not even the point I was trying to make. The point is that she's in the same exact role as Nova now, with less damage potential, not a single point you made touches on that, you're just saying "she's still useful/good" whatever, sure, I never argued that. If you put the right guns on any frame it can be more useful, but you do not have to do that with Nova, you can take weapons you're leveling on Nova and she will level them for you, and, for that matter, everyone else in the room too. My problem isn't that Ember's unusable or anything like that, just that if I want to play a glass cannon, Nova's a flatly better option. I could not care less what Ember was "intended" to be, she was replaced in that role with Nova, because she became something else altogether, then they slapped her back into the same slot as Nova, and oh well! She has absolutely no stand out abilities that make me want to play her, there is no interesting mechanic to her play, she is nothing but damage, and if I want nothing but damage, Nova is a better choice, every time, and I don't even have to use "good" guns to make her that way. That is my entire point. Ember was Ember when she was something that wasn't "Nova Light", regardless of what she was "intended" to be. Or are you suggesting that the intent of developers on how the players "should" play the game is the final word? Wasn't the whole point of Damage 2.0 to make it so there were no longer "one true builds" in this game? If the best Ember has to offer is "Like Nova but not as good", I'd say regardless of how much you enjoy playing her. (Thanks for that needless description by the way, that really helped make your argument.) She remains a less effective version of another frame. I would rather play her "like rhino but faster" than "like nova but not as good" any day of the week.

[SoulEchelon]

That's beyond not even the point I was trying to make. The point is that she's in the same exact role as Nova now, with less damage potential, not a single point you made touches on that, you're just saying "she's still useful/good" whatever, sure, I never argued that. If you put the right guns on any frame it can be more useful, but you do not have to do that with Nova, you can take weapons you're leveling on Nova and she will level them for you, and, for that matter, everyone else in the room too. My problem isn't that Ember's unusable or anything like that, just that if I want to play a glass cannon, Nova's a flatly better option. I could not care less what Ember was "intended" to be, she was replaced in that role with Nova, because she became something else altogether, then they slapped her back into the same slot as Nova, and oh well! She has absolutely no stand out abilities that make me want to play her, there is no interesting mechanic to her play, she is nothing but damage, and if I want nothing but damage, Nova is a better choice, every time, and I don't even have to use "good" guns to make her that way. That is my entire point. Ember was Ember when she was something that wasn't "Nova Light", regardless of what she was "intended" to be. Or are you suggesting that the intent of developers on how the players "should" play the game is the final word? Wasn't the whole point of Damage 2.0 to make it so there were no longer "one true builds" in this game? If the best Ember has to offer is "Like Nova but not as good", I'd say regardless of how much you enjoy playing her. (Thanks for that needless description by the way, that really helped make your argument.) She remains a less effective version of another frame. I would rather play her "like rhino but faster" than "like nova but not as good" any day of the week.

 

Your first paragraph was basically bashing Accelerant, and asking for Overheat to replace it again and be "retooled". And at the end of your paragraph right here you specifically state you want to play her like a "faster Rhino" (which oddly enough, is redundant because Rhino thanks to his alt helm can be as fast as a damned Loki and Rhino Prime supposedly has even -more- speed).  That's not how Ember was supposed to be, and that's not how she will -ever- be. If you want to play a "faster rhino", play Rhino.

 

As for comparing her to Nova, that's like comparing Frost to Rhino. Currently Rhino and Nova are pretty much the "overpowered" warframes, though arguably Rhino is even moreso because Nova can actually die quickly. What needs to be changed is something that simply can't be changed thanks to this community: Nova and Rhino getting nerfed a little. Obviously not "nerfed to the ground", but tweaked to where they're more balanced. Make Rhino actually be slow and lumbering like he should be while keeping his high defense and CC abilities. Give Nova a bit more armor while lowering the huge AOE range of her ulti. Maybe even remove the chain explosions so people will instead use her ulti for CC, and use Antimatter Drop as the true high damaging ability. THOSE changes would be viable, and strengthen all characters as a whole instead of people just flocking straight for Rhino or Nova for everything.

[RealPandemonium]

You can't complain any other frame to Nova; she's overpowered, period.  Accelerant is a fantastic ability that provides survivability, late-game scaliing, and a team-wide buff (potentially).  New Fireball does a lot of damage per energy spent and can be spammed, and WoF is still strong paired with Accelerant.  FIre Blast is pretty awkward and mostly redundant given WoF's function, but does have edge cases where you can stack a bunch of them to form a death wall.  I would say that Fire Blast is a weak link but Ember overall is doing well. 

[Paradoxbomb]

People enjoy bashing Accelerant, but it's an extremely effective tool. Makes everything susceptible to fire while also staggering everyone around you. It has a surprisingly wide range as well - even without Stretch (I don't use Stretch on my Ember). Here's a few good weapon mod setups for each faction while using Ember w/Accelerant.

 

Corpus = Cold+Lightning(Magnetic), then Fire on its own.

Infested = Elec+Toxin(Corrosive), then Fire on its own.

Grineer = same as Infested or Cold+Toxin(Viral), then Fire on its own.

 

Some pretty epic damage going on right there, buddy.

 

Another ability people just shrug about is Fireball. I've been using it pretty consistently, and it's -heavily- underestimated. 100% "on fire" proc, which stuns enemies for quite a good amount of time. At max rank, it does a surprisingly good sized aoe that also lights enemies on fire. Not to mention, it feels -damn- good. Shakes the screen just a little bit while the sound and impact looks and feels like you just destroyed something. Its damage really isn't bad at all either, even without Accelerant. Two shots can take out most level 20-30 enemies.

 

Oooh, I'll have to try this out. I always used Accelerant with her abilities but I never tried going all out with fire damage. Also agree on Fireball, who cares if it doesn't kill things on the initial impact? It feels brutal and it burns people, what more do you want from a #1 ability?

Edited March 9, 2014 by Paradoxbomb

[Bibliothekar]

what if, instead of causing more radial fire damage, it acted as damage resistance with a 100% chance to fire proc people around her, for minimal levels of damage.

This is more or less, what the first version of Overheat was. With the right mods, you got 98% damage reduction, which made it partially better than Iron Skin (one version had a fixed percentage of damage reduction, that could not be increased with mods). So because a lot of Rhinos whined and DE didn't want a fire tank, they booted Overheat.

/e: And I agree with SoulEchelon, that was a good decision. Might get my Ember Prime out of the closet again to try some of his suggestions.

Edited March 26, 2014 by Bibliothekar

[Incarmine]

Accelerant is great, and yes you can stun-lock crowds with it. But this means you have to spam the hell out of that thing if you don't want to wither in enemy fire. I also have something here that I posted on another thread:

 

 

I would never ever sell my Ember Prime, but ember is lacking in higher missions for two reasons:

 

 

1. She is a pure offense frame and combined with accelerant, her ult puts out tremendously more damage by itself than any other ultimate ability. But at harder missions, you'll be at wanting for more utility-based powers or abilities that aren't locked to static damage numbers. They really toned down the bullet sponge nature of harder enemies, but it'll get to the point where world on fire takes three or more seconds to take down one enemy. Accelerant mitigates that, but you'll be spamming this frequently regardless because Ember is quite squishy. She has average health and shield, caster-level armor, and only 1.0 movement speed. Therefore she has to rely almost solely on accelerant to stun-lock crowds of enemies in order to survive but this is pretty problematic because of the second reason:

 

2. With Ember, power strength, power efficiency, AND power duration (plus a little bit of range) are all critical. Many frames can do with just two of the four power areas (efficiency, strength, duration, and range), but because Ember is a damage frame, she needs power strength. She also really needs power duration because her best ability, world on fire, is a damage over time skill. Ember has no utility or defensive skill that can last a significantly long time like iron skin, turbulence, chaos, invisibility, or blessing, so like I mentioned earlier she has to spam accelerant to survive. That takes energy so she needs power efficiency. Range is optional, but if it's too small then she has to run to practically touching range to catch an enemy with world on fire.

 

All this means that she has to go to farther lengths, and require much more creative planning and formas in order to mod her well. Some frames like Mag can totally ignore power duration and just focus on strength+efficiency. Same with Nova, whom for higher levels all you need are efficiency and range. Nyx's abilities have no need for power strength at all, so efficiency and range are the only things required. Zephyr's tornado is primarily great for that CC, so power strength is optional, and the only things you need are efficiency and duration to power her tailwind and turbulence. With Trinity, only things she needs for perma-blessing is duration and some level of efficiency (which you may or may not opt out of fleeting because of its duration negative).

 

The general trend here is that many frames only need to focus on two, or even one area of power modding. Ember has to contend with three.

[Bibliothekar]

That takes energy so she needs power efficiency.

On long missions with enough energy orbs dropping (for Ember Prime also in the void, where she can recharge from Death Orbs) Flow might be the better option, as it boosts your energy pool up to 562 (562.5 correctly, but it's rounded down, IIRC). I don't know if Phoenix helmet adds 25% of her base energy or total energy, so with that on top, you end up somewhere between 600 and 703.125 energy (huh, that's a large margin - should test that tomorrow).

Streamline only gives 30% efficiency, and you can only get more by sacrificing duration - which is a no-go for her, as you said correctly. So, in short: For long missions, Ember is better off with Flow than Streamline. In both cases, Phoenix helmet is almost a must, even though it doesn't look as nice as Ember Primes original helmet.

Edited March 30, 2014 by Bibliothekar

[RealPandemonium]

On long missions with enough energy orbs dropping (for Ember Prime also in the void, where she can recharge from Death Orbs) Flow might be the better option, as it boosts your energy pool up to 562 (562.5 correctly, but it's rounded down, IIRC). I don't know if Phoenix helmet adds 25% of her base energy or total energy, so with that on top, you end up somewhere between 600 and 703.125 energy (huh, that's a large margin - should test that tomorrow).

Streamline only gives 30% efficiency, and you can only get more by sacrificing duration - which is a no-go for her, as you said correctly. So, in short: For long missions, Ember is better off with Flow than Streamline. In both cases, Phoenix helmet is almost a must, even though it doesn't look as nice as Ember Primes original helmet.

With continuity, constitution, 9pt fleeting expertise, and 9pt streamline you end up with 70% efficiency and +18% duration.  This gives you a 12 second WoF, which is not snoozemode but doesn't have to be recast too often while also making the rest of your skills dirt-cheap.  Phoenix helmet gives you enough extra energy without Flow.

Edited March 30, 2014 by RealPandemonium

[Incarmine]

It's not as okay as you guys make it out to be. You have to spam Accelerant CONSTANTLY. I had maxed power efficiency, and flow, plus duration mods to make up for the loss. I solo'ed a survival mission and if I did not have the enemies stunlocked, they would drop me within seconds.

 

If you played with a team sure there'd be more energy orbs and you wouldn't be taking all the hits, but any warframe is better in a team and doesn't make the situation for ember better.

 

In a short while I was running out of energy.

[Bibliothekar]

So, your Ember looks something like this?

[Davoodoo]

Just for information, how reliable is the stun of Accelerant ?

Nearly instant cast(below 0.5s) 100% chance to stun, stuns all enemies except power immune ones(stalker/bosses) lasts around 2.5second.

 

Ember is fine but requires a lot of mods to make her work. Great for veterans decent for new players. 

[Hyunsai]

Nearly instant cast(below 0.5s) 100% chance to stun, stuns all enemies except power immune ones(stalker/bosses) lasts around 2.5second.

 

Ember is fine but requires a lot of mods to make her work. Great for veterans decent for new players. 

 

I agree. I put some work on it, and I'm doing surprisingly well at high level.

 

My build : http://warframe-builder.com/Warframes/Builder/Ember_prime/t_30_32001340013_1-7-8-2-6-10-4-8-5-5-0-5-6-1-5-8-10-5-13-5-3-14-2-5-55-3-3-65-4-3-67-9-3_5-5-6-6-14-9-55-9-65-4-13-7-2-6-1-12-4-9-67-7-8-14_10/en/1-0-4/0

 

Energy is a problem though, I always carry Medium Team Energy if I'm in a tight spot.

 

Otherwise, I don't regret putting the formas, she is really fun to use as you must always be on the move, her defense is her offense (WoF nearly always on and Accelerant helping in the stunlocks and debuff).

Edited March 31, 2014 by Hyunsai

[Paradoxbomb]

It's not as okay as you guys make it out to be. You have to spam Accelerant CONSTANTLY. I had maxed power efficiency, and flow, plus duration mods to make up for the loss. I solo'ed a survival mission and if I did not have the enemies stunlocked, they would drop me within seconds.

 

If you played with a team sure there'd be more energy orbs and you wouldn't be taking all the hits, but any warframe is better in a team and doesn't make the situation for ember better.

 

In a short while I was running out of energy.

 

Now that I've messed around with Accelerant a bit, I have to agree that constantly having to recast just to debuff a handful of enemies is a bit of a drawback, if they made Accelerant a buff similar to Fire Leaders where all enemies within x meters of Ember take the increased fire damage for a short duration, it would feel a lot more worth the energy. The stun would only apply to enemies caught in the initial casting radius of course.

Edited March 31, 2014 by Paradoxbomb

[Monolake]

Now that I've messed around with Accelerant a bit, I have to agree that constantly having to recast just to debuff a handful of enemies is a bit of a drawback, if they made Accelerant a buff similar to Fire Leaders where all enemies within x meters of Ember take the increased fire damage for a short duration, it would feel a lot more worth the energy. The stun would only apply to enemies caught in the initial casting radius of course.

WoF  already auto-targets everything around you anywhere you go,  you want the game to be completely auto-play?

[Paradoxbomb]

WoF  already auto-targets everything around you anywhere you go,  you want the game to be completely auto-play?

 

Well no, but seeing as WoF encourages you to stay mobile in order to deal the most damage to as many targets as possible, having to continuously stop to recast Accelerant on every five or six enemies is both energy inefficient and kinda breaks the pace of the Ultimate, no? They would have more synergy if Accelerant was a temporary debuff rather than a one-time cast IMO.

Edited March 31, 2014 by Paradoxbomb

[(PSN)billy-d-squid]

I've recently got Ember Prime (I skipped normal ember) And do people really want Overheat back? Why? Yes it was a great power, 90% dmg reduction, who doesn't want that, yet it doesn't actually fit with what Ember was supposed to be, high dmg caster frame. If people want damage reduction, why not play Rhino, or Valkyr, hell even Frost spamming SG will work in a pinch for a tank (although that's scrapping the bottom of the barrel)

 

I've got a fairly basic build with 1 forma, not enough time to add further polarity slots yet. But I can achieve 7,000 damage with WoF lasting only 13 seconds, only using continuity, intensify, streamline, flow and stretch. Now, with that Accelerant can achieve 325% additional fire damage, that's 22,750 damage over 13 seconds. I don't know about you, but I rather like causing that much DPS, and vs Infested on ODD it's funny watching them get continuously procc'd by WoF. With a basic stretch Mod, Accelerant has a range of 30m that's fairly substantial enough to catch most things in a room.

 

Ember's gained far more with Accel. than she had with Overheat, given only Proto shields can drop her heat damage by 50% while most infested take an additional 50%, only the grineer are able to hold out for any length of time due to the lvl of armour they carry and the fact they turn into bullet sponges at higher lvls. Even then,throw on a Corrosive projection aura and it drops their armour by -30%. Fireball, is nice and Fire blast is okay. Accel, also stacks with weapon fire damage, Wildfire Nightmare Mod on a Soma. Nuff said. 

 

But there are some issues with Ember at large. 

 

1) Why does she only have a sprint speed of 1.0? Hangover from Overheat maybe? Needs to be upped to 1.15, she's very squishy, needs the speed.

2) Why does Ember Prime not have an extra polarity slot?

3) Why is Fireblast unaffected by Stretch? That's a bit daft and counter intuitive when her other powers benefit from it, making it the odd one out.

Edited April 1, 2014 by (PS4)billy-d-squid

[HansJurgen]

-snip-

 

 

If you do not have the skill to mod it and play it right, whine about it. If you do not have the sense to search or ask around for a solid Ember build, demand buffs.

 

Ember's abilities scale really well for high level mobs, where debuffs are king. How about you get on with the program and ask around how to set it up correctly, instead of embarrassing yourself by telling everyone what terrible idea is to play Ember like a tank. EL OH EL

 

Whatever, please buff Ember. It never hurts to get some nice improvements to a solid frame. Although, replacing Accelerant with Overheat will essentially nerf it. Please do not do that.

Edited April 1, 2014 by HansJurgen

[Bibliothekar]

you end up somewhere between 600 and 703.125 energy (huh, that's a large margin - should test that tomorrow).

I just tried it and, boy, was I optimistic. Both Flow and the Phoenix helmet calculate from Ember's base energy of 150. So on top of her 225 energy when level 30, she gets another 225 from maxed Flow and 37.5 from Phoenix helmet. Flow is definitely worth it, Phoenix helmet ... with maxed Streamline, you get one cast of Accelerant or two Fireballs. So it depends ...