Axeroix Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Volt In my opinion just make his base speed bigger, that will make me happy, I love play with him one of the best good looking Warframes. my friend you have earned my respect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunarTemplar Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 I agree Primes should be better then the normal versions, especially Ember, cause she's actually fun to play :p Do not agree frames like Zephyr need a debuff. First of all, how much harder is it to get Zephyr then Rhino? and you wanna debuff that? Grind out a Zephyr THEN come back and tell me she needs a debuff. I @(*()$ DARE you Frost does need a buff to his speed though, he is WAY to slow to be good for much that isn't a slow moving core or a stationary target we'd rather not be shot full of holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZNoodle Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Probably because her 3 only works for Projectiles. So Heavy Gunners and most Grineer units shoot her down quite fast. And last I checked she still takes dmg from Napalm aoes. As a almost exclusive Zephyr player I would like to say Heavy Gunners and Grineer weapons are also moot when it comes to her third ability, Napalm itself is 50/50 seeing as it might sometimes knock it off course but the change in direction is so useless because itll barely turn away and still damage you with the blast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoorCensored Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 (edited) Excellent; Now go run anything that's remotely difficult. Iron skin scales very poorly. The typical retort is "in any circumstance where iron skin is lost quickly, other frames are in trouble too", but that's not exactly what I'm saying. Iron skin scales poorly - contrast that with Zephyr's turbulence, which does not depend on the level or damage of the enemy. While iron skin feels like god mode early on, any skills that don't scale become more and more useless as enemies reach higher levels. How is it a wonder that he has CC? Excal has: Damage Mobility AoE CC Volt has: CC Mobility/Support Utility Damage/CC Nova has: Damage Mobility Debuff/CC/Damage Rhino has: Mobility Defense Support CC What you say seems to imply that Rhino has more versatility in mechanics than other frames, and that simply isn't true. Rhino's independence comes from the fact that iron skin allows you to recover shields by the time it's taken down in most of the content in the game, and that makes it much easier to survive when you're surrounded. All of his skills are viable and synergize well, but that doesn't necessitate him being overpowered. I'm betting I can't run anything that you'd find remotely difficult solo with my non-Rhino frames (Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn are my general limits). Rhino let me right rough shot over the aforementioned planets moons and Uranus, solo. I can pull off higher end Survival and Defense missions with Valkyr, but anything that doesn't have an heavy spawn rate is right out though. I don't have Excalibur or Volt, so I can't comment on them; and I find Nova to be the hardest of my warframes to play well. Even with maxed Flow and Streamline, I have constant management energy problems. Ember is my current favorite for fun, but she's hardly in Rhino's league, at least when I'm playing her all by her lonesome. Edited March 9, 2014 by PoorCensored Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrJxt Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 I own every frame (except rhino prime but my rhino has 2 formas) and I'd rather have the other frames buffed than just nerfing only rhino. Out of all the frames in this game, I'd only play about 2-4 of them and others situationally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaoticVice777 Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 I'm betting I can't run anything that you'd find remotely difficult solo with my non-Rhino frames (Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn are my general limits). Rhino let me right rough shot over the aforementioned planets moons and Uranus, solo. I can pull off higher end Survival and Defense missions with Valkyr, but anything that doesn't have an heavy spawn rate is right out though. I don't have Excalibur or Volt, so I can't comment on them; and I find Nova to be the hardest of my warframes to play well. Even with maxed Flow and Streamline, I have constant management energy problems. Ember is my current favorite for fun, but she's hardly in Rhino's league, at least when I'm playing her all by her lonesome. Whatever happened to adding Fleeting Expertise onto your Nova? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoorCensored Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Whatever happened to adding Fleeting Expertise onto your Nova? Um, I've never run the vault? I've been playing less than a month and am happy I'm mastery 8 and making it to the outer planets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErickJatobA Posted March 9, 2014 Author Share Posted March 9, 2014 I own every frame (except rhino prime but my rhino has 2 formas) and I'd rather have the other frames buffed than just nerfing only rhino. Out of all the frames in this game, I'd only play about 2-4 of them and others situationally. Same as me, except that My Rhino have 4 formas '-', I build him for durability only, even his aura is a "D" now. And we share thoughts as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seox Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 I'm betting I can't run anything that you'd find remotely difficult solo with my non-Rhino frames (Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn are my general limits). Rhino let me right rough shot over the aforementioned planets moons and Uranus, solo. I can pull off higher end Survival and Defense missions with Valkyr, but anything that doesn't have an heavy spawn rate is right out though. I don't have Excalibur or Volt, so I can't comment on them; and I find Nova to be the hardest of my warframes to play well. Even with maxed Flow and Streamline, I have constant management energy problems. Ember is my current favorite for fun, but she's hardly in Rhino's league, at least when I'm playing her all by her lonesome. I'm not sure this addresses the point I was making earlier, though - Rhino is very powerful early-mid game but has scaling issues. The only aspects of his skills that don't face scaling problems are: Charge's mobility/knockdown Roar's damage percentage Stomp's CC Contrast this with frames like Nova, where the two primary damage abilities both scale based on a percentage of weapon damage and thus don't face issues hurting enemies at any tier. (I'm not saying anything about the balance of any frame, I'm just trying to establish that some of Rhino's purported strong points are subject to scaling issues, just as with any other frame, and thus you can't claim he's overpowered because he handles early content better than other frames who scale better) If all that can be said is that "Rhino solos early content better", then maybe the lower ranks of his skills should be looked at, but balancing him only based on how he performs early-midgame is not balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoorCensored Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 I'm not sure this addresses the point I was making earlier, though - Rhino is very powerful early-mid game but has scaling issues. The only aspects of his skills that don't face scaling problems are: Charge's mobility/knockdown Roar's damage percentage Stomp's CC Contrast this with frames like Nova, where the two primary damage abilities both scale based on a percentage of weapon damage and thus don't face issues hurting enemies at any tier. (I'm not saying anything about the balance of any frame, I'm just trying to establish that some of Rhino's purported strong points are subject to scaling issues, just as with any other frame, and thus you can't claim he's overpowered because he handles early content better than other frames who scale better) If all that can be said is that "Rhino solos early content better", then maybe the lower ranks of his skills should be looked at, but balancing him only based on how he performs early-midgame is not balance. I can't address the point you are making about scaling - I'm not playing the the 6+ forma, potato'ed, 30 minute minimum survival on Pluto "end" game. I'm also not calling for any action so far in this thread. I'm just pointing out how, at the content I was struggling with with my other warframes, Rhino let me handle with ease. *If* he's over powered in the early game, and under powered in the late game, that's something that probably needs fixed on both ends, but would likely face people upset about the Rhino Nerf+Buff. Also, please note, I've mostly used Rhino on non-defense/survival missions with a tiny bit of steath. If you only have an enemy or two at a time to down, their weapon damage, so far, seems largely inconsequential. (I love being able to turn off alarms now...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seox Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 I can't address the point you are making about scaling - I'm not playing the the 6+ forma, potato'ed, 30 minute minimum survival on Pluto "end" game. I'm also not calling for any action so far in this thread. I'm just pointing out how, at the content I was struggling with with my other warframes, Rhino let me handle with ease. *If* he's over powered in the early game, and under powered in the late game, that's something that probably needs fixed on both ends, but would likely face people upset about the Rhino Nerf+Buff. Also, please note, I've mostly used Rhino on non-defense/survival missions with a tiny bit of steath. If you only have an enemy or two at a time to down, their weapon damage, so far, seems largely inconsequential. (I love being able to turn off alarms now...) Ah, I see. Yeah, even a basic, unmodified full level iron skin stops 1200 damage. It's not until a fair ways through the starchart that that doesn't totally make you indestructible, and I can certainly see how that and Rhino's other abilities makes that content far easier than other frames do. He's absolutely not underpowered late-game though, before someone jumps on me for saying that. He has enough mechanics that do scale that he remains relevant, but not overly potent. I so feel you on those alarms! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravefire Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 You didn't press 4. Only you could make this topic hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DietEbolaCola Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 (edited) Rhino owns at low-level and mid-game missions, and he is the boss-farmed frame most players get first, so it ends up in the hands of a lot of scrubs early on. Any popular character class in most games, or in this case, warframe, is gonna get people crying nerf at it when overused in pugs. Maybe players are unlocking him too early, and swapping him from his current Fossa, Venus, location to a boss further into the solar map, would be better than nerfing him outright. In my opinion, the 3 starter frames (Loki, Mag, Excalibur) should be shifted to the first few planets instead, with Rhino shifted to somewhere closer to the middle of the map, so that he gets unlocked later by players than the current meta allows. Edited March 10, 2014 by DietEbolaCola Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlapClown Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Do not nerf anymore frames .Just fix my frost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allenaattori Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 How was Rhino before? o.o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DietEbolaCola Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 How was Rhino before? o.o Iron Skin was duration-based, and he was completely invulnerable while it was up, kinda like the change from old snowglobe to new snowglobe.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IamSalva Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Did anyone here have played a High End mission with a Rhino? Well I did, level 75 Corrupted Heavy Gunner can take a Rhino with maxed out shield, health and armor + a Iron skin with an addition of 90% of power strenght in under 10 seconds. Problem here: You have to search really hard to even find a Lvl 75 Heavy Gunner or any Lvl 75 Enemy at all. Ofc Rhino is no longer Easy Mode then, Nova stops beeing Easy Mode to on that level. The Problem ppl have with this frames is, that they make 90% of all content easy mode and are more than viable on high levels, in case of Nova sometimes even needed. The solution is not to nerf this frames, but up the level of the content so that 90% easy mode gets down to 50-60% Easy Mode. (Like having T3 Missions start at level 50 Enemies, giving us a planet that has levle 70+ eniemies or even higher as normal Grunts) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanakoAC Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 (edited) Well I did, level 75 Corrupted Heavy Gunner can take a Rhino with maxed out shield, health and armor + a Iron skin with an addition of 90% of power strenght in under 10 seconds. Another Question? What? "under 10 seconds" ? You think that's weak ? 10 seconds is a LONG time in combat. Hell, five seconds is a long time. One whole second, even is a moderately long time in the heat of battle. If it takes you more than 10 seconds to kill a specific enemy, and/or you're standing exposed in the line of fire for 10 seconds, then you're doing something wrong. Take cover, or shoot it.. Or disable it. You have a charge that knocks people down and a stomp that stuns them, and if you're fighting enemies so horrendously powerful that they take ages to kill, then you should also be bringing along something with high status chance that can stun/slow or otherwise disable your targets. Edited March 10, 2014 by NanakoAC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeMoNiCxTuToR Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 IMO, they should put a Timer on Iron Skin. ATM, its bit to damn good at most levels of play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErickJatobA Posted March 10, 2014 Author Share Posted March 10, 2014 What? "under 10 seconds" ? You think that's weak ? 10 seconds is a LONG time in combat. Hell, five seconds is a long time. One whole second, even is a moderately long time in the heat of battle. If it takes you more than 10 seconds to kill a specific enemy, and/or you're standing exposed in the line of fire for 10 seconds, then you're doing something wrong. Take cover, or shoot it.. Or disable it. You have a charge that knocks people down and a stomp that stuns them, and if you're fighting enemies so horrendously powerful that they take ages to kill, then you should also be bringing along something with high status chance that can stun/slow or otherwise disable your targets. Weak, never. Inefficient yes, imagine a scenario where a fallen team mate is waiting for someone to help, Rhino just have energy to cast one Iron skin Rhino could do this job,But a Loki, a Ash and a Zephyr(if the enemy is ranged) could do it without worries. What I am trying to say is, Rhino can do certain things, but there are others frames that can do the same, with more or less effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoboDoge Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Remove damage from Stomp, add stun duration and you will deter crapload of noobs from Rhino. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErickJatobA Posted March 10, 2014 Author Share Posted March 10, 2014 Remove damage from Stomp, add stun duration and you will deter crapload of noobs from Rhino. If come to happen I will miss nothing, the Rhino stomp for me is already utility skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapnFusterCluck Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Rhino runs faster than Ash. A tank runs faster than a ninja. Does that make sense people? ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seox Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 If come to happen I will miss nothing, the Rhino stomp for me is already utility skill. Exactly, I don't even use it for damage. The damage is really rather underwhelming compared to some of the other 4's. That said, one of the most common complaints I hear about Rhino is about the damage his 4 does, and it makes me seriously think about just how familiar with Rhino some of the people discussing that point are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErickJatobA Posted March 10, 2014 Author Share Posted March 10, 2014 (edited) Rhino runs faster than Ash. A tank runs faster than a ninja. Does that make sense people? ... With the right build yes, he can outrun Ash. But You cant have a Faster Rhino and a Tank Rhino in the same mod build without at least 6 formas. I had to pass forma on my Rhino 4 times to make him tank as he could be. Is all about customization. And this is a Game where biotechnological space ninjas fight clonned space pirates, zombies and another race that worship profit as a supreme being Where is the sense? '-' Edited March 10, 2014 by ErickJatobA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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