What If 'players' Acted Out The Stalker Role.. Like In Dark Souls?

[JerryMouse13]

Not going to bother readressing the points you're repeating.

No AI boss will ever be able to provide the challenge that a player controlled one would provide.

The devs are already planning to eventually do PvP so this would merely be a precursor to a system that we'll be getting in the future anyways. The beauty of it is that it wouldn't require nearly as much work since they wouldn't have to be as concerned about balance.

Unbalanced PvP is BAD PvP. If we do ever get true PvP it will likely involve dueling frames with identical weapons certainly not anything resembling this.

[Aggh]

Well I guess I'm gonna do the same as the OP and unsubscribe from this.

Thanks for ruining an interesting thread.

Enjoy your pointless argument.

Ikr? Why bother talking about the merits of the topic of the thread? That would be like a discussion or something.

Unbalanced PvP is BAD PvP. If we do ever get true PvP it will likely involve dueling frames with identical weapons certainly not anything resembling this.

IT'S NOT MEANT TO BE COMPETITIVE PVP. You're applying the standards of competition to what is essentially role playing. It's @(*()$ ridiculous. And this would be an excuse to get the coding work on PvP out of the way while not having to bother with the necessary balance testing. Don't know why you don't get this.

Edited March 29, 2013 by Aggh

[JerryMouse13]

Ikr? Why bother talking about the merits of the topic of the thread? That would be like a discussion or something.

IT'S NOT MEANT TO BE COMPETITIVE PVP. You're applying the standards of competition to what is essentially role playing. It's @(*()$ ridiculous. And this would be an excuse to get the coding work on PvP out of the way while not having to bother with the necessary balance testing. Don't know why you don't get this.

This is not an RPG. This style of PvP serves no point in this game type, and again PvP is ALWAYS competitive. That is the POINT of PvP is competition. What you're describing isn't PvP but some form of RPG sim in which the player never wins, and the system is broken from the start. It adds very little in the way of gameplay, as well as interfering directly with the PvE experience of others.

[Aggh]

This is not an RPG. This style of PvP serves no point in this game type, and again PvP is ALWAYS competitive. That is the POINT of PvP is competition. What you're describing isn't PvP but some form of RPG sim in which the player never wins, and the system is broken from the start. It adds very little in the way of gameplay, as well as interfering directly with the PvE experience of others.

It's a stripped down instance based dungeon crawler that still has piles of rpg elements. The minute you said it's not an rpg you have shown you're grasping for straws.

It won't interfere if people can opt out of it. It's like you haven't been reading this thread the whole damn time.

How does making a boss event more challenging not add anything?

Edited March 29, 2013 by Aggh

[Luminati07]

I'm against PVP in Warframe.

However, if it does ever get added, something similar to Dark Souls would probably be a good way to go about it, rather than just DM/TDM/CTF etc.

You shouldn't be able to just invade anyone though, people would have to choose whether they can be attacked by players or not, with some sort of reward as an incentive.

I'll say it again though, I'm against PVP in Warframe.

[Aggh]

I'm against PVP in Warframe.

However, if it does ever get added, something similar to Dark Souls would probably be a good way to go about it, rather than just DM/TDM/CTF etc.

You shouldn't be able to just invade anyone though, people would have to choose whether they can be attacked by players or not, with some sort of reward as an incentive.

That's why an opt out option has been suggested a million times over. Rewards would be mostly to reward the extra difficulty and to provide an incentive to not try and abuse the system (this of course would be on top of other anti abuse systems).

I'll say it again though, I'm against PVP in Warframe.

This is a moot point. It's coming in some form whether you like it or not. There is a genuine interest expressed by both the player base and the devs in seeing some form of PvP. This is easily the closest thing to a compromise we'll ever see on the issue.

Edited March 29, 2013 by Aggh

[Blatantfool]

I'd only be on board if playing the 'Stalker' meant you went in as the Stalker frame with specific stats and weapons.

It'd be in poor taste to have some Loki player with tricked out everything roll up, stealth and crit you to death out of nowhere. You aren't likely to be able to respond in time. OR a Rhino with tricked out mods and HEK. Just as bad.

Direct PvP is something Warframe isn't ready for and likely never will be completely ready for. There are so many Warframe abilities and mods that would be so ridiculously broken that it'd be painful without dropping a nerf nuke on everything.

But this doesn't have that problem, not entirely.

See if the Stalker was like it is now - spawning at specific levels with specific gear and abilities - only it was a player controlled entity instead?

That could work. It could even be fun if the game offered a bonus for winning the encounter - imagine if winning as a Stalker earned you plenty of Credits but winning as the Victim got you a BIG Affinity payoff and a single Mod drop? It has potential. May be one of the few PvP oriented suggestions made that doesn't sound like absolute crap.

To work on making sure it never becomes a problem for people who hate PvP - you make it only happen after you reach a certain player rank in Warframe and you add an ever-present option to toggle whether or not you participate in it. So once you hit, say - rank 4 - you get a notice explaining how the system work and then you can - at any time and with no penalty - turn the option on and off right at the mission menu.

Edited March 29, 2013 by Blatantfool

[Shion963]

It's devolved from actual brainstorming at a good suggestion in "IS STILL PVP NO WANT".

Yeah if the ideas here get implemented all of my future gameplay will be disrupted by Stalkers all the time, every day and every night because people are doing it for PvP. They would wait for that one small chance to Stalk targets and just do that all day, even if the Stalker prompt shows up at random for only a few people. Being a level 45 Stalker who can only attack one target with unmodded Braton Vandal, Skana, and Slash Dash is WAY TOO OVERPOWERED and is too much of a competitive player versus player thing and it should not be allowed to happen at all.

BECAUSE IT'S STILL JUST PVP LOL

/sarcasm

[PaleMinerva]

I wouldn't mind seeing an Old Monk-esque scenario in which you're brought in as the Stalker frame.

[Blatantfool]

I wouldn't mind seeing an Old Monk-esque scenario in which you're brought in as the Stalker frame.

That is the way I'm choosing to look at this too.

Either giving a player the unique opportunity of 'Playing the boss/elite monster'.

The idea has its merits and sounds much more fun then a tacked on, plain PvP.

This idea could play to the game's strengths.

[Venarge]

And probalby 90% of people would use it. Most people don't want someone coming into their mission and messing with them. If they did they would just play a pvp game in the first place.

+1

[Aggh]

I'd only be on board if playing the 'Stalker' meant you went in as the Stalker frame with specific stats and weapons.

It'd be in poor taste to have some Loki player with tricked out everything roll up, stealth and crit you to death out of nowhere. You aren't likely to be able to respond in time. OR a Rhino with tricked out mods and HEK. Just as bad.

Direct PvP is something Warframe isn't ready for and likely never will be completely ready for. There are so many Warframe abilities and mods that would be so ridiculously broken that it'd be painful without dropping a nerf nuke on everything.

But this doesn't have that problem, not entirely.

See if the Stalker was like it is now - spawning at specific levels with specific gear and abilities - only it was a player controlled entity instead?

That could work. It could even be fun if the game offered a bonus for winning the encounter - imagine if winning as a Stalker earned you plenty of Credits but winning as the Victim got you a BIG Affinity payoff and a single Mod drop? It has potential. May be one of the few PvP oriented suggestions made that doesn't sound like absolute crap.

To work on making sure it never becomes a problem for people who hate PvP - you make it only happen after you reach a certain player rank in Warframe and you add an ever-present option to toggle whether or not you participate in it. So once you hit, say - rank 4 - you get a notice explaining how the system work and then you can - at any time and with no penalty - turn the option on and off right at the mission menu.

That is exactly what we've been talking about the whole time.

+1

-9001

If the rewards are good enough people will do it. I know plenty of people that mostly play pvp games that still play warframe. They play it because they like the game, not because they only play pve.

Edited March 30, 2013 by jaywalker
Removed personal insult

[modded]

Wow, seriously guys?

The stalker is the stalker, AI or human. THE END RESULT IS THE SAME. I'm against diabling it, because you can't disable the normal stalker. It's purely random if you fight him.

@OP This is one of the best ideas I've heard in a while.

To all the naysayers:

1. WHY ARE YOU AGAINST THIS? If it's because "well it's PvP" then you have the wrong mentality! The original team STILL plays it like co-op, as stalker is just a boss. The stalker plays it as a "special" mission. If you don't like PvP, then fecking don't do the stalker mission. Problem solved. Stop jumping on the anti-PvP bandwagon because everyone does it/it's currently a PvE/you don't want a boss with unpredictable behavior.

2. The stalker is SUPPOSED to present a challange harder than normal oppoenents, FFS he's lvl 45 with tenno abilities. Having a human would make it much more interesting, due to all the extra tactics that could be employed.

3. LOL @ everyone saying "no one likes other people messing with their mission". It'll JUST BE A FECKING RANDOM BOSS WHO WANTS TO KILL ONE OF YOU! If your teammate dies, the stalker gets his reward, and you revive your teammate and carry on with your mission.

I'm apalled by all the people BLINDLY opposing an idea by using fallacies and bullsh!t.

EDIT:

-9001

If the rewards are good enough people will do it. Not everyone is a butt hurt care bear. I know plenty of people that mostly play pvp games that still play warframe.

I'm one of them. 500+ hours on blacklight retribution, I play warframe when I'm bored.

Edited March 29, 2013 by modded

[Aggh]

No one has suggested disabling the stalker event, just player controlled stalkers. It's a concession that I'm more than willing to make if it would mean getting this implemented. Agree with everything else you've said though.

I have over 2000 hours in Blr, but I haven't played it in weeks because of warframe. Clearly this game is only for people who soley play pve.

Edited March 29, 2013 by Aggh

[zelgaris]

Not sure, whether mentioned, but since the game is peer-to-peer, there is danger of bad lagging and while in PvE, this is just a inconvinience, in PvP (whether it is normal PvP or what OP is suggesting), this could lead to problematic situations and advantages for some players.

[Aggh]

Not sure, whether mentioned, but since the game is peer-to-peer, there is danger of bad lagging and while in PvE, this is just a inconvinience, in PvP (whether it is normal PvP or what OP is suggesting), this could lead to problematic situations and advantages for some players.

Both server sided and p2p games have their share of issues, advantages and disadvantages. Millions of people play p2p pvp games regardless of this and still enjoy them. All this will mean is that matching making will have to be more selective (which tbh, they should be doing for pve too) than it is now and that they might have to take another look at how the game handles lag among other things that they would have already had to do for pvp that they're going to do eventually anyways.

Edited March 29, 2013 by Aggh

[zelgaris]

Not sure about the "PVP eventually happening anyways" - I personally wouldn't mind this game staying PvE (in case they will try to polish the S#&$ out of the PvE), but I understand people wanting PvP, just not fan of it :)

[DirkDeadeye]

I have over 2000 hours in Blr, but I haven't played it in weeks because of warframe. Clearly this game is only for people who soley play pve.

I got a free gold code from gerritzens twitter.. and ever since then..completely apathetic towards that game.

[Aggh]

Not sure about the "PVP eventually happening anyways" - I personally wouldn't mind this game staying PvE (in case they will try to polish the S#&$ out of the PvE), but I understand people wanting PvP, just not fan of it :)

The devs have said there will eventually be some forum of PvP in this game. People just like to perpetuate the myth that they don't want to do it so that they can rage at any remotely pvp related thread.

I got a free gold code from gerritzens twitter.. and ever since then..completely apathetic towards that game.

I had everything GP permable permed on my US account after around 1300 hours. My EU account is level 38 :|

Edited March 29, 2013 by Aggh

[-Vondred-]

How about we not mention demon souls? How about we not mention PvP of any kind? How about we not do this idea at all, because it'd be a waste of time to get my &#! kicked by OP warframes -- I don't even want to play the stalker, who would? To annoy others in their mission? This Stalker thing is a rare occurance -- You'd break the uniqueness that is that event. So no. Absolutely not. This idea is just plain illogical.

[modded]

How about we not mention demon souls? How about we not mention PvP of any kind? How about we not do this idea at all, because it'd be a waste of time to get my &#! kicked by OP warframes -- I don't even want to play the stalker, who would? To annoy others in their mission? This Stalker thing is a rare occurance -- You'd break the uniqueness that is that event. So no. Absolutely not. This idea is just plain illogical.

HAHAHA

Sorry, it would just be a boss fight with unpredictable AI.

[Blatantfool]

How about we not mention demon souls? How about we not mention PvP of any kind? How about we not do this idea at all, because it'd be a waste of time to get my &#! kicked by OP warframes -- I don't even want to play the stalker, who would? To annoy others in their mission? This Stalker thing is a rare occurance -- You'd break the uniqueness that is that event. So no. Absolutely not. This idea is just plain illogical.

Deal with it.

While I'm against typical PvP in Warframe for a small myraid of reasons - this particular idea is actually pretty cool and could work.

Edited March 29, 2013 by Blatantfool

[Blatantfool]

The devs have said there will eventually be some forum of PvP in this game. People just like to perpetuate the myth that they don't want to do it so that they can rage at any remotely pvp related thread.

*Citation needed*

In all of the instances where they've admitted they'll eventually look into a PvP mode they've almost immediately said "But that isn't happening any time soon."

This is even including the livestream. PvP is likely quite a long way off - which is good since the Warframe of right now isn't nearly ready for it. If they just slapped PvP into Warframe now it'd be a hardly playable, ugly mess. Even PvP enthusiasts likely wouldn't enjoy it as much as they've convinced themselves they would.

[Venarge]

*Citation needed*

In all of the instances where they've admitted they'll eventually look into a PvP mode they've almost immediately said "But that isn't happening any time soon."

This is even including the livestream. PvP is likely quite a long way off - which is good since the Warframe of right now isn't nearly ready for it. If they just slapped PvP into Warframe now it'd be a hardly playable, ugly mess. Even PvP enthusiasts likely wouldn't enjoy it as much as they've convinced themselves they would.

Agreed. And to be true. They should simply stay with the focus on the pve since it is the main part of the game. After they are done with it, they can think about possible PVP

[Blatantfool]

Agreed. And to be true. They should simply stay with the focus on the pve since it is the main part of the game. After they are done with it, they can think about possible PVP

This is how I feel.

The Warframe of the present is an entirely PvE focused game and is extremely incomplete. A year from now the game could be in an extremely different place.

That said - the Warframe of the present is not something that could even begin to handle a PvP mode. There are hard stuns, AoE nuke damage and Invulnerability skills left and right in the skill pool - all of these things notoriously evil in PvP modes, which need to be considered and changing them outright would hurt how the Warframe feels in PvE fairly drastically. Lets not forget the fact that 120% Multishot on a Hek can do more damage in a few seconds then is even possible to have health to survive on a player character.

Now is just not the time for it. Game has a ton of maturing to do.

However the idea in this thread is much more plausible then the mass nerf nuking.

Edited March 29, 2013 by Blatantfool