Event Cheating.

[Hanzo29]

I've asked this question before. What if anything Is DE going to do about people who cheat and exploit the game events. I'm not gonna bother pointing fingers people in the community know whats been going on.

 

It is very frustrating to lead a group of players time and time again who do their best and then get ousted from the scoreboard by people who search for the best exploit. Brazenly admit to their cheating and exploits in the forums later. and then the scoreboards are not adjusted to reflect as much. i don't think these people should be banned, or that their rewards should be taken away. i just wish that the Scoreboards were amended to reflect the people who played fair and with integrity.

 

there are groups who do play fairly and if you pay attention to the scoreboards you can tell who they are. my respect goes out to these players and their efforts. I'm sorry that we have to be insulted like this time and time again.

 

But i won't just complain i actually have suggestions on how to deal with the problem

 

1.Can there be "or are there" score ceilings a scientific control. so you can tell when a group has exploited a score

 

2. Locking clan rosters 1 - 2 days into an even so people cannot rotate rosters to their advantage, or create alt accounts to benefit their score. "i realizes the clan numbers create a competitive problem for larger clans like Moon teir, but alt accounts are flat out cheating in the smaller tiers."

 

3. Watch the scoreboards, often you can see when something fishy is happening.

 

4. Chat with people in the community, word gets around fast some times the community is talking about these things. and we'd be more than willing to tell you about what the rumors are or what they've observed.

 

5. please take all of these things into consideration and allow the final scoreboards to reflect people who competed fairly. When this becomes truth people will cheat less. because they know where the line is.

[BrotherIcarus]

Did not hear about any exploits specific to this event, were there any?

[Hanzo29]

Did not hear about any exploits specific to this event, were there any?

Yes, Several clans used alt accounts "fake accounts" to generate scores and up their total. some of them cited that this was because more members = highers score. so to be competitive the had to fake members rather than just find them. 

 

Others used a condition were if the host of the run had a certain amount of lag you could in fact get a higher score. "Iv'e seen a player admit to this in a forum post. and have also heard about it in the rumor mill of council chat."

[VegetableBasket]

I'd like to see how many tethra's doom points some QA testers at DE's office get when they play the level with all the enemies and mines disabled, with infinite shields. Just an experiment that might shed some light on this most recent event. How many points do you get if a mistake is not even possible?
 

I really think events should have a preliminary practice period, where the scores don't matter or count, and give some kind of incentive for players to report bugs and exploits, whether it's platinum or legendary cores or something else. Currently the incentive is to do what it takes to win, since being honest or reporting bugs doesn't really help anyone's standing. In this event specifically, the first mission could've been exactly the same as the second one, but not counted, and could've been justified in game when the Hek transmission was revealed. The exploits could've been patched, and the real event could've launched.

 

Player cycling needs to be dealt with. Some very small clans are actually a subdivision of mountain or moon clans which shift players into their ghost or shadow clan when they can contribute points and remove them after. This was exploited in the formorian and arid fear event. For bigger clans, alt account spam and mass recruitment, even bribery, needs to be limited. After the "test run", rosters could be "event locked" in the sense that anyone can join or leave a clan, but their event score is bound to that clan, and new members can't contribute to that clan's event score. It gives time for warlords to pick a dream team if they want to have a smaller hardcore clan but big ones can't really do anything too whacky, theoretically.

 

Edited March 13, 2014 by VegetableBasket

[VegetableBasket]

Did not hear about any exploits specific to this event, were there any?

Using loki's switch teleport glitch through a door to open another door at the same time as another teammate. <- Use admitted by high scoring players

Inducing lag to get higher scores, somehow. <- Use admitted by high scoring players

Creating alt accounts to inflate scores in less-than-max capacity clans <- Used by top scoring clans, Warbros apparently was penalized for this, but they might know more about what happened than I do.

Using one of Oberon's skills to heal the pod. <- Patched

Edited March 13, 2014 by VegetableBasket

[Hanzo29]

Lol Id like to thank whoever pruned that Warbros spam lol

 

For the record guys i am NOT a member crescent moon so there was no need for that lol. i hope your initiation was successful or what ever you crazy Warbros guys do.

[Towermice]

Lol Id like to thank whoever pruned that Warbros spam lol

 

For the record guys i am NOT a member crescent moon so there was no need for that lol. i hope your initiation was successful or what ever you crazy Warbros guys do.

:^)

[Tr1ples1xer]

Who cares about scoreboards really ?

[VegetableBasket]

Who cares about scoreboards really ?

That's an easy question to answer, look at who's at the top of the scoreboards.

Those people live for the competition. If the scoreboards didn't matter, they wouldn't exist.

[Hanzo29]

Who cares about scoreboards really ?

People who play the game to be competitive.

[Braken]

Lol Id like to thank whoever pruned that Warbros spam lol

 

For the record guys i am NOT a member crescent moon so there was no need for that lol. i hope your initiation was successful or what ever you crazy Warbros guys do.

I just don't understand those Warbros members. They're just giving their clan a VERY bad name and appearance.

 

And yeah, I have to agree that something should be done when people exploit things to get ahead in events.

[Towermice]

I just don't understand those Warbros members. They're just giving their clan a VERY bad name and appearance.

 

And yeah, I have to agree that something should be done when people exploit things to get ahead in events.

:^)

 

Warbros ______ ____ __  1 word out of 4.

[Tr1ples1xer]

People who play the game to be competitive.

But but can you really be competitive in a coop game ? Having a bigger score just means you played more... that is not a competition imo. Warframe is not a good game to be competitive in IMO.

[Hanzo29]

But but can you really be competitive in a coop game ? Having a bigger score just means you played more... that is not a competition imo. Warframe is not a good game to be competitive in IMO.

Well i see your point but your comment basically touches on a different issue about how the events and scoring themselves are constructed rather than their fairness.

 

I feel if you took out or at least punished the cheaters the competitions would be fun. as i said in the thread those on the ground in the competitions can spot whats a cheating score most of the time. so we also know who the honorable clans are.

[-BELLUM-]

People who play the game to be competitive.

ineed

[Zerrien]

When a competition is put into place, people play to win. An Event shouldn't be a recruitment drive, to bolster numbers. It should be based on the skill/drive of the individual clan members.

 

This past event had some trouble with the fact the scoring was DIRECTLY based on the CLAN AMOUNT not CLAN SKILL. So, a 1,000 Member Moon Clan could beat a 301 Member Moon Clan, no matter what, easy.

 

A 301 Member Moon Clan, even at 100% Efficiency, with ALL members wouldn't be able to beat a 1,000 Member Moon Clan at 31% efficiency. Literally, in this event, quantity won out.

 

Exploiting and cheating is bad, yes. And they were punished for it. And then, in the end, it turned into a mass recruitment drive for all clans, simply to pad their scores higher. Where is the skill in that? 1,000 > 301.... 1,000 > 500. 1,000 > 750, there is nothing those smaller clans could do except perform at 100% Efficiency and hope any clan with more members wouldn't participate in equal amounts to them.

 

This all could've been prevented with an event that focused more on clan member skill, instead of clan member count.

[IamSalva]

Don´t even talk about the Fake Accounts and Recruiting.. talk about the Lag Glitches that gave higher scores than any legit player could reach with a perfect run.

[Davoodoo]

When a competition is put into place, people play to win. An Event shouldn't be a recruitment drive, to bolster numbers. It should be based on the skill/drive of the individual clan members.

 

This past event had some trouble with the fact the scoring was DIRECTLY based on the CLAN AMOUNT not CLAN SKILL. So, a 1,000 Member Moon Clan could beat a 301 Member Moon Clan, no matter what, easy.

 

A 301 Member Moon Clan, even at 100% Efficiency, with ALL members wouldn't be able to beat a 1,000 Member Moon Clan at 31% efficiency. Literally, in this event, quantity won out.

 

Exploiting and cheating is bad, yes. And they were punished for it. And then, in the end, it turned into a mass recruitment drive for all clans, simply to pad their scores higher. Where is the skill in that? 1,000 > 301.... 1,000 > 500. 1,000 > 750, there is nothing those smaller clans could do except perform at 100% Efficiency and hope any clan with more members wouldn't participate in equal amounts to them.

 

This all could've been prevented with an event that focused more on clan member skill, instead of clan member count.

Outside of topic i really fear that same thing will apply to when "badlands" "endgame" will come out.

Smaller clans simply gonna be eaten by bigger ones and there will be no fight at all.

[Nkomo-Sama]

I must be honest I don't find any of this to be cheating. I think they thought outside of the box and made the best out of the parameters. I am a member of an unranked shadow clan and I don't begrudge the winners one bit. I saw the video of the technique and I think it was brilliant. I think some of the larger clan members secretly wish they had thought of it first. If anything i would be inspired to think outside of the box in the future.That's just me though...

Edited March 14, 2014 by Nkomo-Sama

[Landwalrus]

I've asked this question before. What if anything Is DE going to do about people who cheat and exploit the game events. I'm not gonna bother pointing fingers people in the community know whats been going on.

 

It is very frustrating to lead a group of players time and time again who do their best and then get ousted from the scoreboard by people who search for the best exploit. Brazenly admit to their cheating and exploits in the forums later. and then the scoreboards are not adjusted to reflect as much. i don't think these people should be banned, or that their rewards should be taken away. i just wish that the Scoreboards were amended to reflect the people who played fair and with integrity.

 

there are groups who do play fairly and if you pay attention to the scoreboards you can tell who they are. my respect goes out to these players and their efforts. I'm sorry that we have to be insulted like this time and time again.

 

But i won't just complain i actually have suggestions on how to deal with the problem

 

1.Can there be "or are there" score ceilings a scientific control. so you can tell when a group has exploited a score

 

2. Locking clan rosters 1 - 2 days into an even so people cannot rotate rosters to their advantage, or create alt accounts to benefit their score. "i realizes the clan numbers create a competitive problem for larger clans like Moon teir, but alt accounts are flat out cheating in the smaller tiers."

 

3. Watch the scoreboards, often you can see when something fishy is happening.

 

4. Chat with people in the community, word gets around fast some times the community is talking about these things. and we'd be more than willing to tell you about what the rumors are or what they've observed.

 

5. please take all of these things into consideration and allow the final scoreboards to reflect people who competed fairly. When this becomes truth people will cheat less. because they know where the line is.

1.There were clans penalized (to my knowledge) for using alt accounts to pad scores. Warbros comes to mind, I don't know about anyone else... Lo and behold, Warbros still pulled a rather amusing win in the end.

 

2. These glitches are available to everyone, the key would just be to figure such glitches out. I don't encourage it, but it isn't like these kinds of glitches are exclusive.

 

 

That said, most arguments for mass recruitment and alt spamming is going to be based on the fact that the larger clans will in theory be more competitive.

[Phatose]

Realistically, they should just can the clan competition portion of events entirely.  We've all seen that it does little but bring out the worst in the community, and there's no fair way to score these things.

 

The model is fundamentally flawed.  You don't find other competitions where the competing groups can vary in size by a factor of 5.  Just no fair way to do it.

[-BELLUM-]

I must be honest I don't find any of this to be cheating. I think they thought outside of the box and made the best out of the parameters. I am a member of an unranked shadow clan and I don't begrudge the winners one bit. I saw the video of the technique and I think it was brilliant. I think some of the larger clan members secretly wish they had thought of it first. If anything i would be inspired to think outside of the box in the future.That's just me though...

Nothing wrong with thinking outside the box, and it's an excellent method for refining event dynamics and bugs. Which i would hope DE is noting to try and create some kind of event formula for a more leveled playing field. 

 

I think there has to be honest and forward way to indicate to people who are seeking to play a game fairy with in it's rules.

 

If you want to play fair, you may not win.....due to exploits being discovered and not being ratified or adjusted after the results. Thats the kind of honesty that needs to be presented.

 

Right now it feels like playing chess and your opponent left a miniature explosive that blends perfectly with he board. You happen to place your King piece and it blows up...no more king piece...judges ruled that you lost by default? Well guess it's over, cause you didn't think "out side of the box."

Edited March 14, 2014 by -BELLUM-

[Hanzo29]

1.There were clans penalized (to my knowledge) for using alt accounts to pad scores. Warbros comes to mind, I don't know about anyone else... Lo and behold, Warbros still pulled a rather amusing win in the end.

 

2. These glitches are available to everyone, the key would just be to figure such glitches out. I don't encourage it, but it isn't like these kinds of glitches are exclusive.

 

 

That said, most arguments for mass recruitment and alt spamming is going to be based on the fact that the larger clans will in theory be more competitive.

 Again im not talking about what warbros did there were several other clans that cheated and we're not penalized.

 

Your suggesting that because you can cheat that you should. apply that kind of thinking to murder. because you can get away with it its not wrong....NO its still murder, its still cheating.

 

Alt accounts were not the only exploit in this event. 

[Santiak]

I must be honest I don't find any of this to be cheating. I think they thought outside of the box and made the best out of the parameters. I am a member of an unranked shadow clan and I don't begrudge the winners one bit. I saw the video of the technique and I think it was brilliant. I think some of the larger clan members secretly wish they had thought of it first. If anything i would be inspired to think outside of the box in the future.That's just me though...

I think there is a huge difference between "thinking outside of the box", and "abusing faulty mechanics".

Thinking outside of the box, to me, would mean they had come up with a mix of frames and weapons that were unorthodox yet highly effective.

Exploiting faulty abilities, issues brought on by lagging, and alt accounts, however, falls into the latter category.

To draw a comparison to another game; it's akin to the Planetside (1, not 2 - if memory serves) players who would sever their connection just long enough to stay connected, while they went about killing all the other now stationary players, only to reconnect, and the server suddenly registering those players as dead, because of the abusing players client sending that information.

Or, in terms of abusing alt accounts; creating an alt to take it up the sentinel, so you could level your main faster - i.e. stat padding.

Anyone could do it, but it was outside the intended nature of the game mechanics, and as such; an exploit.

It might be considered "outside of the box"-thinking, but then it's the wrong box they're thinking outside of.

As for the point about whether or not the event is competitive; players do not have to be pitted in combat with one another for it to be considered competitive. Last time I checked, skiing was still a part of the Winter Olympics, despite it not being Ski-boxing. ;)

Edited March 14, 2014 by Santiak

[Soundchaos]

Realistically, they should just can the clan competition portion of events entirely.  We've all seen that it does little but bring out the worst in the community, and there's no fair way to score these things.

 

The model is fundamentally flawed.  You don't find other competitions where the competing groups can vary in size by a factor of 5.  Just no fair way to do it.

 

At least these competitive events give DE the chance to address community issues before moving forward with their current plan for Badlands, where they are essentially giving ownership of content to the largest, most active clans and alliances in hopes that they play nice with everyone else.  I think DE has too much faith in their players.