Lets Get Rid Of Ironskin

[Cameron_Hall]

Have Iron Skin make you slower. Done.

 

He can keep his normal sprint speed (ie 1.0 + Vanguard), but that's only to get into battle. Then, when he enters battle, he pops his Iron Skin, gets his speed reduction. If the battle ends before Iron Skin is gone, you're slow; your fault for not judging the situation correctly. Did you go too balls-deep, and you're too slow to escape, and died? Judge the situation better. Or, you could keep your speed and take damage (albeit, it still annoys me that he's the same speed as a Frame he's far tankier than innately, but it's a work-around.)

 

There needs to be drawbacks. You can't have a Frame who is a jack of all trades; master of everything. At the same time, though, I don't feel that removing Iron Skin would be the greatest move, since it is probably one of the main things that define Rhino. His speed, however, shouldn't be.

[Rhokdelar]

I think people are over reacting to Rhino now.  At high levels the skin barely helps at all as it breaks super fast.  To the OP can I ask you a few questions.

 

How long have you played Rhino?

Have you used the OLD Rhino Skin before?

 

Clearly your just posting this just to follow the trend of hating Rhino that has been going around lately.

[GraalOhOtonami]

I think people are over reacting to Rhino now.  At high levels the skin barely helps at all as it breaks super fast.  To the OP can I ask you a few questions.

 

How long have you played Rhino?

Have you used the OLD Rhino Skin before?

 

Clearly your just posting this just to follow the trend of hating Rhino that has been going around lately.

Hahahah! Oh gods, I forgot just how OP Rhino used to be, my friend used to be able to max out duration and efficiency, pop Rhino skin at the start and he'd have invincibility as long as the mission went on, he did so many defense missions like that XD

[Killerdude8]

Rhino, Vauban, Loki and Excalibur are some of the Most Balanced frames in the Game.

 

Do not touch them.

Just because most Frames available are broken as S#&$, Doesn't mean we need to Break the Frames that ARE NOT broken.

[LurkenLurker]

Remove the unbalanced nonsense that is Vanguard speed bonus first. 

 

Ironskin is kind of an easy mode cause it gives CC immunity, which allows Rhino to ignore good chunk of gameplay mechanics (including the recent obnoxious addition - light zap traps). If anything should be done to IronSkin then it should be stripped of CC immunity.

Thats the whole point of Iron skin My god is to avoid CC jesus christ you people cry about rhino yet have no clue how to use his skills or what makes them viable.Rhino skin is not nearly as godmod as it use to beh 

Edited March 15, 2014 by LurkenLurker

[Monolake]

Thats the whole point of Iron skin My god is to avoid CC jesus christ you people cry about rhino yet have no clue how to use his skills or what makes them viable.Rhino skin is not nearly as godmod as it use to beh 

Thats the whole point of why its a problem - it trivialises content and makes gameplay mechanics irrelevant, making it no-skill baby-easy mode and all the work developer put into enemies abilities and environmental hazards a wasted effort.

[LurkenLurker]

Thats the whole point of why its a problem - it trivialises content and makes gameplay mechanics irrelevant, making it no-skill baby-easy mode and all the work developer put into enemies abilities and environmental hazards a wasted effort.

Then you just don't know how OP iron skin use to be or how rhino was during his radial blast days

[GraalOhOtonami]

Thats the whole point of why its a problem - it trivialises content and makes gameplay mechanics irrelevant, making it no-skill baby-easy mode and all the work developer put into enemies abilities and environmental hazards a wasted effort.

Try saying that on Pluto.

Especially during Nightmare mode.

[TempestFoxNZ]

Thats the whole point of why its a problem - it trivialises content and makes gameplay mechanics irrelevant, making it no-skill baby-easy mode and all the work developer put into enemies abilities and environmental hazards a wasted effort.

 

Well seeing as the same developers also created the Rhino frame I doubt they'd consider themselves wasting their own time.

 

Rhino at lower level missions is the same as any other frame that can move fast with abilities to avoid combat, except he wades through enemies and soaks up the damage - you can run through most content with a number of frames and get the same results.

Rhino at higher levels has just enough time to run into a mass of mobs before his ironskin shreds and stomps for CC. That's his job and ironskin is an essential part.

 

Where he becomes kind of ridiculous is when you start adding forma to his frame paired with a forma'd weapon - at that point, stupidity is the only thing that gets you killed. However, unless you spend real money, investing that much into a frame and weapon (set) takes a long time. For those that achieve it, the power is well earned.

 

Rhino is a powerful frame, there's no doubt about it. The issue lies more in the overall balance of the game than a single frame.

Edited March 15, 2014 by TempestFoxNZ

[ScorchedIce]

Love how he actually got upvotes
TROLLS, PEOPLE, TROLLS.

[TempestFoxNZ]

Try saying that on Pluto.

Especially during Nightmare mode.

And I guess this is where the real problem lies with frames like Rhino. In that situation Rhino has as little hope as the next frame, which is good. However, Rhino never needs to visit a Pluto Nightmare mission to get what he wants. He can get the same mod out of nightmare mode in Venus - the drop rate might be a little less but the completion rate will be a lot higher.

[fatpig84]

Rhino abilities are fine.

It is only the speed issue that Rhino Prime has.

Yes, I bold Rhino Prime, NOT Rhino.

 

 

Either nerf Vanguard to 15% and bump up Hemlok to 15% (and Rhino Prime still as fast as Ash, regular Rhino will be close in Nekros speed which is 1.1 iirc) as well or reduce Rhino Prime's base sprint speed to 0.95 (and he will beat Ash by a little) and bump up Hemlok to 25%.

 

Cmon that is all is needed.

Edited March 15, 2014 by fatpig84

[CelticMoss]

with out iron skin he really has nothing but a stun ulti. hes stats are almost the same as frost's stats, and further more, he is the "tank" he is supposed to draw fire to himself by shooting everything and being invincible, so kill the tank? good luck.

Rhino is not a tank he has to use a abilty to be a tank

in the other hand 2 girls are the top bullet sponges around

 

Saryn and Valkyr

Edited March 15, 2014 by SarahApple

[LurkenLurker]

People so &#! hurt over vanguard helm that boostin speed rhino prime has is enough that you dont even need it and even if they nerf it people will go back to coptering. Getting rid of vanguard will chage what how fast I get to extraction yeah I will have to stomp a second or third time other than that rhino will keep on trucking. It also means I am not gona bother with reviving if your to far from me but oh well.

[Killer_Monkey]

Heres my conditions for removing Iron Skin, have Rhino have most health and sheilds forever and have him passively ignore knockdowns

[fatpig84]

People so &#! hurt over vanguard helm that boostin speed rhino prime has is enough that you dont even need it and even if they nerf it people will go back to coptering. Getting rid of vanguard will chage what how fast I get to extraction yeah I will have to stomp a second or third time other than that rhino will keep on trucking. It also means I am not gona bother with reviving if your to far from me but oh well.

 

Non Loki players are already zorencoptering because of regular Rhino.

Rhino Prime only makes it worse for them.

Banshee, Excal, Mag, Volt, Trinity, Ember etc. A whole lot of frames with base 1.0 speed.

 

As for the Loki having same speed as Rhino Prime, Loki doesn't have an AOE to all clear everything up to level 30. 

So even if he gets in front, he won't be negating XP for the others. Rhino Prime can.

Edited March 15, 2014 by fatpig84

[Nagisawa]

I'm not in favor of a nerf, but....that doesn't sound like a problem to you?

It does to me.  It tells me that all the other frames need help, or that the enemies need some sort of balancing system.  The fact that the high end game levels need certain frames, tells me there's something wrong with the game.  Not the Rhino.

 

Iron Skin is a symptom, not a cause.

 

If they nerf my Iron Skin, though, there will be *Beep* to play.

[Bubsters]

You need to stop the rhino discrimination. 

[(PSN)Klein_TK]

Sorry OP, but what are you talking about? Because you think there is no contra on Rhinos abilities DE should change iron skin?

 

To all who sais "Rhino needs his iron skin", that´s not true. I am playing Rhino too and I love my new Rhino Prime, he just looks freaking awesome, but you can play the Rhino almost without it, even in high level.

 

I almost forgot about one contra from iron skin, imo it destroys the look of Rhino, that´s why I am barely using it.

Okay, of course rhino can survive a lot without iron skin. Put playing Tower Three Def. or Surv., doing really well suddenly becomes difficult. My current rhino settup has him forma-ed for extra deffense. The reason for this is I enjoy playing at the front of the battle, so he can take all the hits while my squad offers support.

However, if I want him to play as crowd controll, i will stack mods that bennifet power durration such in order to buff up Roar and Stomp (not so much the damage. At high levels, the enemies become damage sponges to abilities. So makong the enemy stuned in the air while 4 damage boosted warframes are wailing on a level 60ish bombard, it gets really tough).

I say if noobs want him for his greatness to power through maps, so let them. They wont get very good... one time I saw a rank 1 have the "what stalker" pack. Me,I had the Dera out. This was against corpus. This guy went down so much, as well as do very little damage. This was also notably on earth. Powering through is a bad idea. Im barrely making my way through Europa and im rank 8. Skill is relative to time played as well as versitallity with playing styles. I go from matches as rhino to matches as Loki and im just as devestating.

What Im getting at is if you want to be a good player, you will see that those abilities that make warframes invincible for a short time are CRUCIAL to the game. Without them, you wouldnt have very good DPS players, tank players, or healers. Everybody would just be MEH and resort to using "OP" weapons and stuff that you buy and not learn to use.

And that my friends is how the cookie crumbles.

[Cameron_Hall]

What Im getting at is if you want to be a good player, you will see that those abilities that make warframes invincible for a short time are CRUCIAL to the game. Without them, you wouldnt have very good DPS players, tank players, or healers. Everybody would just be MEH and resort to using "OP" weapons and stuff that you buy and not learn to use.

 

Everyone already does use practically nothing but the OP/auto-win weapons and frames. It's why pretty much every game has Rhino Prime, Ember, Nova. Somas for days. Recently, Boltor Prime is making an appearance.

Edited March 15, 2014 by Cameron_Hall

[DrPandisimo]

Rhino abilities are fine.

It is only the speed issue that Rhino Prime has.

Yes, I bold Rhino Prime, NOT Rhino.

 

 

Either nerf Vanguard to 15% and bump up Hemlok to 15% (and Rhino Prime still as fast as Ash, regular Rhino will be close in Nekros speed which is 1.1 iirc) as well or reduce Rhino Prime's base sprint speed to 0.95 (and he will beat Ash by a little) and bump up Hemlok to 25%.

 

Cmon that is all is needed.

 

Its funny how many people are mad about Rhino Prime being faster, given that in the grand scheme of things, it makes F*** all difference if you travel a few m/s faster -.-

[GrosslyIncandescent1709]

Rhino abilities are fine.

It is only the speed issue that Rhino Prime has.

Yes, I bold Rhino Prime, NOT Rhino.

 

 

Either nerf Vanguard to 15% and bump up Hemlok to 15% (and Rhino Prime still as fast as Ash, regular Rhino will be close in Nekros speed which is 1.1 iirc) as well or reduce Rhino Prime's base sprint speed to 0.95 (and he will beat Ash by a little) and bump up Hemlok to 25%.

 

Cmon that is all is needed.

QFT

 

finally some1 comprehending the major differences between, slow,fast and fastest. have my upvote

Edited March 15, 2014 by MortalSin

[Monolake]

Nerfing Vanguard opens the door for nerfs to the other alternate helmets (many of which actually affect powers)... Let's not.

The CC defense from Ironskin is what Ironskin is for, not damage mitigation.

Frankly, I think Frost and Saryn (moreso Frost) need it worked into their ability-sets too.

Vanguard is the only imbalanced helmet, the speed bonus is too big, making Rhino faster than majority and Rhino P fastest tied with Loki. Tone it down to 12-15% and it will be fine.

 

Try saying that on Pluto.

Especially during Nightmare mode.

CC immunity is not that crucial vs Corpus, wouldnt matter much, I play Palus with Frost no problem. But vs Grineers its a gamechanger and unfair advantage, where other frames have to deal with lots of knockdowns and now hazards, Rhino gets an easy free pass. Even Trinity Link doesnt counter the hazards if no monsters are linked and it needs constant upkeep.

 

Well seeing as the same developers also created the Rhino frame I doubt they'd consider themselves wasting their own time.

 

Rhino at lower level missions is the same as any other frame that can move fast with abilities to avoid combat, except he wades through enemies and soaks up the damage - you can run through most content with a number of frames and get the same results.

Rhino at higher levels has just enough time to run into a mass of mobs before his ironskin shreds and stomps for CC. That's his job and ironskin is an essential part.

 

Where he becomes kind of ridiculous is when you start adding forma to his frame paired with a forma'd weapon - at that point, stupidity is the only thing that gets you killed. However, unless you spend real money, investing that much into a frame and weapon (set) takes a long time. For those that achieve it, the power is well earned.

 

Rhino is a powerful frame, there's no doubt about it. The issue lies more in the overall balance of the game than a single frame.

Its the same developer that struggles to balance anything, even obvious aspects, and I have no idea why. 

You dont need any formas to equip abilities.

[WrothBog]

ok i've not responded for a while because i was playing the game. so not a troll thread.

 

the title was a little trolly but it filtered 90% of the posts as knee jerk reactions to a title not to the content. if you DID read it congrats

 

IF you bothered reading i suggested a speed debuff while using ironskin, speed is lowered because you gain increased durability. that doesn't remove the tankiness , it doesn't stop you using ironskin to get into a fight. what it does is stop iron skin users from doing something as inane as setting a 4 second macro to refresh ironskin. or just doing so themselves.

 

there is no learn to play involved in using ironskin. it costs little and gives you a few thousand hitpoints bonus before shields. its the mobile version of a personal snowglobe. at low levels it's pointless and most users cast it once to stay invincible the whole match. at high levels it's pointless as it will drop faster than a lead balloon essentially acting as a waste of energy. it's really only serving the purpose of trivialising content in the midsection of the game. which all the other frames can do without ironskin.

 

to the responses arguing we should change the other OP abilities like hysteria, link etc....yes. we should. no arguments from me. as i said earlier i dont use hysteria or turbulence despite using both zephyr and valkyr quite often.

 

if we nerf these abilities back to realistic levels. we can fix the enemies as well. so far powercreep is just causing the enemies to need to do more and more status effect damages to bypass our resistances. and when that fails we spam more enemies.

 

some responses seem to think i had some issue with rhino's speed. i don't actually care. i never noticed him being any different personally and i dont play loki to have some bizarre infatuation with the master race argument.

 

another few claim you need rhino's ironskin for 1hour plus games...the game isn't built for that content so that argument isn't valid. you seek that challenge the developers don't have to assure your survival. ironskins removal would just raise the bar and expose the better players that can still pull it off.

 

buffing all frames to rhino's level will just further cripple the horrible netcode, the game is already unplayable on 3/5 connections here in australia.

[fatpig84]

QFT

 

finally some1 comprehending the major differences between, slow,fast and fastest. have my upvote

 

Like I mentioned, I am totally okay with what Rhino can bring to the table, considering he and Mag are tied for the most re-worked frames, their current abilities are pretty much all useful.

 

 

Just Rhino P speed just needs a little adjustment :p