Fun's Over De, Remove Broken Lights Already.

[Aercascade]

I've expressed my opinion on these things. Here: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/191922-about-the-broken-lights-in-grineer-tilesets/?p=2285568

 

For those too lazy to click links I'll quote it here:

So instead of making a new thread to clutter the forums I'm going to put in a fully detailed response here of what my issues are and how they can be fixed because I hate nothing more to read a post from some person complaining with no actual solution/replacement or compromise for the thing they are trying to fix.

 

So, here goes...

 

As an addition to the game I don't mind it existing however... currently the whole thing feels a lot more than a tesla coil than a lamp.

(Note, apparently they tried to fix it but honestly it still feels the same to me it really does.)

 

So here is a summary of how to make them better:

1.Prevent them from spawning in bad spaces.

2.Decrease either the damage or range in which they get you.

3.Take them out of lower level Survival/Defense missions or entirely.

4. Remove the flash when it hits.

5. Make them more visible

6. Decrease the rate at which they appear.

 

 

 

1. Spawning in bad places:

Here is an example of a bad spawning location:

 

This broken light so happened to in fact hit me through the lip of the door as I came towards it. There would be no possible way to counter it without the use of a Penta. (you know what players are like when it comes to the penta...)

 

 

2. I find the damage and range of these things to be ludicrous.

To me it makes little sense for these things to hit you in about a 4-5m radius. The range should either be decreased to either a 1m radius or even to on touch as it makes little sense to me why you'd get electrocuted by walking next to it.

 

The damage is hurtful to not only squishy frames but new players. I've died many times to these little blighters than anything else. I'd much rather play on Corpus maps than these with my new frames because of it.

 

 

 

3.There existence in Survival missions to me is just another way to waste lives and serves no other purpose than that(as well as to just infuriate me to no end.) If I'm on the last stretch with no life support left I expect to be killed by grineer that catch me off guard, but no I run straight into another bs placed broken light that takes me out in one go and you know there is more than likely going to be more. It doesn't even have to be in a bs place since they're hard to spot.

 

4. So apparently people are saying it's a massive flash that causes migraines or hurts their eyes. This might be something to look into for Health and Safety reasons.

 

5. As I pointed out on 3. They're difficult to spot. Even with a large screen I still have so much trouble trying to notice them. On that mission trying to find them, even when looking closely I still had a lot of trouble finding them all.

 

6. If they can't be nerfed anymore and if they can't have their range decreased at least make them a lot less frequent around the level. These things should feel more like a trap that exists to knock health off rather than have the ability to kill you. Even if not then, perhaps make it so it takes you right down to 1 Health instead of killing you.

 

 

 

Those are my 2 cents on the issue. I don't often find things that infuriate me. (Flappy Birds was more relaxing than anything) but this out of everything to me is. On that note. Sensors are fine don't remove them they work well and are easily noticeable.

On the point that it should stop you rushing:

I think the sensors do that fine, broken lights and how they are now feels broken.

 

 

 

Yesterday on Excalibur, level 3 I had my health knocked down to 46 from just 1 of those things.

Edited March 19, 2014 by Sutherland

[Tsoe]

Just an update, Dev's next iteration of this mechanic will include:

 

1) Only placing the 'traps' at eye or floor level.

2) FX that indicate they are clearly active.

3) Will do DOT vs (instead of) big pulse/surge of damage.

4) Can be exploded from a distance to damage nearby enemies (like Explosive Barrels).

5) Will have a chance to drop a resource.

 

We can definitely see the hate still for these by some, so more attempts to tweak are being made.

 

 

 

good changes but

 

remooving the big &#! surge of damage is not cool

 

and it dont go with the trap itself

 

DOT is not ok for that -_-

 

we want a pulse of damage  (damage should be in %  like 65% of total  health of the frame)

Edited March 19, 2014 by Tsoe

[Bibliothekar]

... tesla coil ...

Makes more sense to me than "broken light". Reskin them, hang them in more obvious positions - and Grineer have an anti-Corpus trap that just happens to target Tenno as well. And you don't have to do any more fixes than changing their skin and name. :)

 

/e: And even the re-skin is no big deal. Just saw the ends off of an Amphis, nail them on the wall (or ceiling) - and you're done.

Edited March 19, 2014 by Bibliothekar

[Caernarvon]

Just an update, Dev's next iteration of this mechanic will include:

 

1) Only placing the 'traps' at eye or floor level.

2) FX that indicate they are clearly active.

3) Will do DOT vs (instead of) big pulse/surge of damage.

4) Can be exploded from a distance to damage nearby enemies (like Explosive Barrels).

5) Will have a chance to drop a resource.

 

We can definitely see the hate still for these by some, so more attempts to tweak are being made.

 

Or you could replace them with something that makes sense like broken power generators or gas leaks from wall mounted pipes.

Broken lights that attack people is just too stupid.

 

Also, if you really want to keep them for some reason, add to that list of changes 6) Reduced frequency or 6) Only found on damaged/Invasion ships.

[AcquisCommunitaire]

Everyone who supports broken lights must not have tried playing a new account.

 

These broken lights do not spawn once or twice. They spawn en masse to the point that there has been times I've seen others zapped by 5-6 broken lights at the same time. Often, these broken lights are hidden behind doors, walls etc. There was once when 2 broken lights spawned right behind a wall but right in front of a door. It was not possible to see the broken light until you're right under it. If that is how the DEs want to treat new players, then this game is bound to fail. There is nothing more excruciating to a new player who spawns and gets insta-killed time and time again.

[Aercascade]

Makes more sense to me than "broken light". Reskin them, hang them in more obvious positions - and Grineer have an anti-Corpus trap that just happens to target Tenno as well. And you don't have to do any more fixes than changing their skin and name. :)

 

Then I'd just suggest either putting them in later maps or lowering the amount of times they spawn.

[Bibliothekar]

Then I'd just suggest either putting them in later maps or lowering the amount of times they spawn.

Uhm, yeah, right ... have them spawn in fixed points, like Corpus' cameras and turrets. If they spawn all over the place, that's not a good idea. We need to be able to memorize their positions.

And keep them away from Mercury. New players should learn about traps with the "easier" ones the Corpus have, before they are introduced to the more deadly variations.

 

And so it doesn't get lost on the last page:

/e: And even the re-skin is no big deal. Just saw the ends off of an Amphis, nail them on the wall (or ceiling) - and you're done.

Edited March 19, 2014 by Bibliothekar

[Shadebain]

One of the biggest reasons this is upsetting most players, is because this game is supposed to be fast-paced. Yes, rushing is an issue that needs to be resolved. But doing so should never ever kill the player. Remember when Corpus laser doors insta-killed you? They tried to slow players down by instantaneously murdering them in cold blood, and it was a horrible experience. I like the damaged electronics idea, though it most certainly should not be lights. Lighting does pump out enough juice to arc at all let alone destabilize personal energy shielding/murder you.

 

Slowing the player down a bit is fine, but this was absolutely the wrong way to do it. It completely contradicts the style of the game-play, and is just as bad, if not worse, than the original laser doors. Slow the player down by briefly stunning them, as a reminder that they need to be more careful. Maybe make them take a hit to their shields, but not all of it. Maybe half. The traps need to be exposed heavy wiring, such as the type that would run to a door, or from a reactor, or something of the sort, something that could logically hurt you if you wandered too close.

I don't blame the players who are pissed and frustrated beyond reason at all. They play the game, and perhaps pay to play the game, and issues like these are indeed frustrating.  Unfortunately, that is the best solution I can come up with.

 

But then again, I don't get paid to do this.

[Taranis49]

Why dont they make the distinctive traps instead of hacking this functionality onto the random lights? Make a new visual model for them. Work on  proper placement where players can always see and react to them, dont place them at spwanpoints or from the other side of the door etc. 

 

And just on abstract level: what does it add to the gameplay? its just an equivalent of a stationary single-use invisible enemy that suckerpunches you, a random damage. how any competent designer though this was a cool addition? If it was an unti-rush measure it doesnt work in the slightest, cause the best rush frame is Rhino and all these traps and doors are nothing for Iron Skin.

 

Please call the guy who designed void levels and ask him to design grineer traps, he obviously knows his job and did some good interactive, deadly but always visible and avoidable traps. 

 

This. Even then there's the small issue that the Grineer having what are essentially rays guns firing from the walls, door overhangs, etc. simply doesn't fit.

 

It doesn't particularly matter if the point of origin's from a purpose-built electrical beam turret or what have you or the utterly irredeemable absurdity of the current broken lights. Part of the issue is that the concept itself is totally inconsistent with the faction: we're talking about the shmucks that load their guys into torpedoes and fire them out of cannons at enemy ships.

 

The hilarious (and sad) thing is that the concept of a deliberate, ranged electric-damage trap would be more consistent and fit better with the Infested (to say nothing of the Corpus) than the Grineer.

Edited March 19, 2014 by Taranis49

[unknow99]

Everyone who supports broken lights must not have tried playing a new account.

 

These broken lights do not spawn once or twice. They spawn en masse to the point that there has been times I've seen others zapped by 5-6 broken lights at the same time. Often, these broken lights are hidden behind doors, walls etc. There was once when 2 broken lights spawned right behind a wall but right in front of a door. It was not possible to see the broken light until you're right under it. If that is how the DEs want to treat new players, then this game is bound to fail. There is nothing more excruciating to a new player who spawns and gets insta-killed time and time again.

"Instakilled". Tu l'as dit, c'est au niveau des dégâts que c'est OP. It should take mostly the Shield, and a reasonable amount of health.

To sum up, a laser door, for grineer. Nobody died & complained this much about these traps. Environment Interaction is needed, but not really that way. My lvl 30 Loki needs 3 hits to be taken down. I don't event imagine how many revives a fresh lvl 1 excal will use.

[DaftMeat]

I think it's a shame we're still stuck on the "Yes, it's a trap!" "No, it isn't!" part of this debate.

 

[R34LM]

There are many reasons why I really don't like these lights, but I will decide to avoid complaining about them too much.

 

Much of the points I will make here will most likely have been made by previous posts.

 

So, the lights as a concept, barring from the gameplay, is not sound. For one thing, they only damage players, not anyone else, which is unrealistic. Secondly is the arcs of electricity; I am no physicist or electrician, but I know that the air is not conductable. It isn't like water where electricity can surge through a pool of it, which makes for a very classic trap. Even if the lights were given huge amounts of power, which they won't because the are just ceiling lamps, they couldn't travel the distance to harm the player unless they actually touched it.

 

Now onto gameplay aspects: the place is just unfairly littered with broken lights, 1-3 of them in every room. While that is not a problem on it's own, here is what makes it an issue. While attempts have been made to make them more noticeable, it doesn't seem to be good enough. I am moving way too fast and focusing on other things to think about checking for the very slight hints of sparks or the buzzing sound, which I never notice if I am playing as a Loki with invisibility. Corpus cameras are easy to spot because of their "view beam" and a blip on the minimap if you have and enemy radar mod. The trap doors can be spotted in the same manner. The lights are still very hard to spot. Let's also mention that they sometimes (if not most of the time) hide behind the frame of doors, around the corner of machinery, or are just too small (I found a light that was only about a 1' by 6'' in game measurement). Most importantly is the disruption of flow. No one is able to move around fast enough without taking electrical damage. People are now looking all over the place to find broken lights, almost forgetting their original task.

 

Another thing: if the Grineer can afford to make these huge ships and use the technology to make trap doors, shouldn't they have the money to take care of routine maintenance? It's almost ironic.

 

Now, I'm still not quite sure why some people think that the lights are a good trap. All I know is that I care less when I use a Rhino, which gets boring after repeated play. I'd like to take my Loki in, but my build for him will not cut it, and I will not change it for something like this.

 

A question of DE: why are you so adamant on keeping these lights in the game with the hate mail that has been spilling out over them? You guys are doing great work, but I was surprised to see that the grineer ships now have traps. Was this a response to something? Is it paving the way for the hinted new stealth mechanics? I don't get it.

 

But let's face it, if the majority of the community says that the broken lights are crap, then let me mention this famous phrase: polish crap, it's still crap.

[Mak_Gohae]

Everyone who supports broken lights must not have tried playing a new account.

 

These broken lights do not spawn once or twice. They spawn en masse to the point that there has been times I've seen others zapped by 5-6 broken lights at the same time. Often, these broken lights are hidden behind doors, walls etc. There was once when 2 broken lights spawned right behind a wall but right in front of a door. It was not possible to see the broken light until you're right under it. If that is how the DEs want to treat new players, then this game is bound to fail. There is nothing more excruciating to a new player who spawns and gets insta-killed time and time again.

 

I just formad my Banshee just for this. As for right now the first time i encountered them was Saturn which i went in, like, 3 levels below the recommended level and never got killed. I didnt have Redirection/Vatality/Rejuv or used items and i never got killed. Why? Cause i looked to up to see where they were and shot them out, when i didnt see them and got shocked i quickly headed back where came from to take cover for a second. In fact in a two person team i actually witness what i keep saying, there was an Excal that was just running straight through and ended death cause he ran through two lights.

 

All that needs to be done is a quick scan to avoid half of them and once you get shock just stop for a second. This is not super hard to do. And i have been calling for a 3 second spawn immunity for a while because spawning dead isnt just a light problem, i was just in Injection mission where the host left in the middle of defending and ended up dead on the host change because i ended up loading last. Loading to a grenade or a napalm to the face and dying has been happening for a while and that doesnt seem to bother anyone.

Edited March 19, 2014 by Mak_Gohae

[DeadX65]

thinking someones ego is involved with the lights, numerous reasons why they just don't fit beyond their BS mechanics, converting them to mines or something else that hs a reason to hold onto a charge and release when enemies are near is rejected. more logical than 'broken lights'

 

so, why would they continue to push a bad idea when there's alternatives that are more practical?

>whom ever came up with the idea won't let it go.

ego, bad thing to have too much of in a dev/game designer...they start thinking they're gods of their own little world. want it in the way they imagine, screw logic or anything else. why is that a problem? when that ego conflicts with players desires and good game design.

Edited March 19, 2014 by DeadX65

[7grims]

Just an update, Dev's next iteration of this mechanic will include:

 

1) Only placing the 'traps' at eye or floor level.

2) FX that indicate they are clearly active.

3) Will do DOT vs (instead of) big pulse/surge of damage.

4) Can be exploded from a distance to damage nearby enemies (like Explosive Barrels).

5) Will have a chance to drop a resource.

 

We can definitely see the hate still for these by some, so more attempts to tweak are being made.

 

If it drops rare mods, I still wouldn't know if I like them.

 

Why cant we have more enemies, more AI, better interactions from the enemies. Isnt it better then having a thing as a enemy/challenge?

[OldGodKing]

The damn lights keep one-shotting my low leveled frames that are under level 10. Can hardly play without these lights killing me at the start of the mission.

[Shinobi-kun]

What I think of it:

DE's response to curb rushers? Okay. Where's my cover system? And give me back my pre-U9 stamina. We're all gonna get zapped anyway. Even if we do get zapped, worse we do is throw in a revive, then back to the Tennolympics.

...You guys seen that Rhino-trio? Steam-rolled their way through, ace'd an Invasion in less than 10 mins.

[7grims]

One of the biggest reasons this is upsetting most players, is because this game is supposed to be fast-paced. Yes, rushing is an issue that needs to be resolved. But doing so should never ever kill the player. Remember when Corpus laser doors insta-killed you? They tried to slow players down by instantaneously murdering them in cold blood, and it was a horrible experience. I like the damaged electronics idea, though it most certainly should not be lights. Lighting does pump out enough juice to arc at all let alone destabilize personal energy shielding/murder you.

 

Rushing isnt THE issue.

First theres the lack of recognition that rush or speed is part of the game.

Second the problem isn't ppl rushing and ignoring the content, but the lack of content, not so interested mission types, and the constant grinding, hence why ppl rush something, because after repeating it for 50 times, you stop feeling like enjoying it and play calm.

 

Wf problem is being repetitive, since the beginning, and as never been addresses, thats why ppl rush, grind, etc.

 

 

Also I strongly believe this traps aren't about rushers, because they are only being implemented on grineer maps.

Edited March 19, 2014 by 7grims

[Bibliothekar]

I think it's a shame we're still stuck on the "Yes, it's a trap!" "No, it isn't!" part of this debate.

We'd be long over this, if DE could make up their mind about those things. See Rebecca's post. A broken light is an environmental hazard, like a broken cryocore or fire. A trap is something that has deliberately been placed in a certain spot.

 

People are now looking all over the place to find broken lights, almost forgetting their original task.

Yup. I played survival on Ceres yesterday. When we came to that big room with the high ceiling and five exits, the other three of my team went on to shoot the enemy, while I took down every broken light I could find - and still got zapped by one. I mean, that room is 10m high (or something like that) and broken lights that are flat on the ceiling still can zap you when you walk below them. This is utterly ridiculous ...

[AcquisCommunitaire]

I just formad my Banshee just for this. As for right now the first time i encountered them was Saturn which i went in, like, 3 levels below the recommended level and never got killed. I didnt have Redirection/Vatality/Rejuv or used items and i never got killed. Why? Cause i looked to up to see where they were and shot them out, when i didnt see them and got shocked i quickly headed back where came from to take cover for a second. In fact in a two person team i actually witness what i keep saying, there was an Excal that was just running straight through and ended death cause he ran through two lights.

 

All that needs to be done is a quick scan to avoid half of them and once you get shock just stop for a second. This is not super hard to do. And i have been calling for a 3 second spawn immunity for a while because spawning dead isnt just a light problem, i was just in Injection mission where the host left in the middle of defending and ended up dead on the host change because i ended up loading last. Loading to a grenade or a napalm to the face and dying has been happening for a while and that doesnt seem to bother anyone.

You acknowledged it yourself: you 'forma-ed' your banshee just for this. THen it shows that you are not a new player. You know that these lights prove lethal and you have the weapons adequate to defend yourself. (SInce you have a banshee and forma-ed it, i would presume you're at least rank 3 or above)

At that level, you would have relatively decent weapons and know what to expect and how to react to enemies and traps. Do you expect a new player who just started the game (e.g. a person who just registered and this is his first actual game) to know what to expect, know how to react to enemies, know how to deal with traps, know all the hiding spots, know how to deal with each enemy, etc? You are asking too much of the new player.

 

As a note, 'looking up' would not do you any good in some situations. These lights are located on the ground behind pipes, up on ceiling, behind walls, etc. There was once when 2-3 lights were located right behind the door. You won't be able to see them, nor will you be able to destroy them. Are you seriously telling me that these are fair to the new player who seldom played more than an hour? Stop using your perspective as an experienced player and think about those who aren't experienced. Though I don't know what mastery level the person using the excal was, did you expect a new player to be cautious in any room? If a new player enters a room and sees no enemies, any reasonable new player would definitely not have expected several broken lights ambushing him/her behind a door. Even if that player could guess that there is going to be broken lights behind the door, what could he/she do? These lights shoots through walls and doors, so the moment you try to open the door to shoot them down, you will get insta-killed.

[Auxeus]

Just an update, Dev's next iteration of this mechanic will include:

 

1) Only placing the 'traps' at eye or floor level.

2) FX that indicate they are clearly active.

3) Will do DOT vs (instead of) big pulse/surge of damage.

4) Can be exploded from a distance to damage nearby enemies (like Explosive Barrels).

5) Will have a chance to drop a resource.

 

We can definitely see the hate still for these by some, so more attempts to tweak are being made.

 

Resource drop doesn't fit the logical and would be a questionable thing that why Corpus sensor doesn't drop anything if Broken Light does.

 

In addition, i hope to see reduced numbers of Broken Lights, and zap anything instead just Tennos to make sense.

[iString5]

Cutting down on rushing is a nice way to promote teamwork, but it just seems ridiculous that my warframe can shred through hundreds of Grineer troops just to be taken down by an almighty desk lamp.

 

*Plot twist: The bulb doesnt even hurt us, we just slowly die from OCD.*

Edited March 19, 2014 by iString5

[(PSN)Darkseider]

The debate is old as is the topic.  There is no need for tweaks because even if you put lipstick on a pig it's still a pig.  Remove the broken lights and go back to the drawing board on this one.  They are nothing more than a poorly conceived and implemented griefing mechanism.  

[MIDORIYASTAR]

Just an update, Dev's next iteration of this mechanic will include:

 

1) Only placing the 'traps' at eye or floor level.

2) FX that indicate they are clearly active.

3) Will do DOT vs (instead of) big pulse/surge of damage.

4) Can be exploded from a distance to damage nearby enemies (like Explosive Barrels).

5) Will have a chance to drop a resource.

 

We can definitely see the hate still for these by some, so more attempts to tweak are being made.

Will the dots stack if they end up in spawning room and kill you slowly instead of instant death or are you going to stop them appearing in spawning rooms :@ or just remove them, 8 times today ive spawned dead due to them even using mag prime with 1110 shields , a number of times after waiting for players for over half an hour then instant death.

i try to get friends interested in this game, they just laughed when they heard the most threatening thing in game is broken lights and said no thanks, also the flashes of this are causing my migraines to happen more often, i cant play many games due to this and warframe maybe another one :S

Edited March 19, 2014 by unliving

[(PSN)Darkseider]

I don't understand what the problem is?  Damned near EVERY player from newbie all the way up through seasoned vets want this removed.  It serves no purpose. ZERO. ZILCH.  Apparently a child of a DE employee suggested this and that's why they are keeping it in and trying to tweak it as to not hurt little Joey's feelings.  If DE intended on introducing a game breaking mechanic they have surely succeeded with this turd.  REMOVE it.  Go back to the drawing board and come up with something similar to turrets and cameras similar to the Corpus that is more Grineer-ish.  Ensure it doesn't insta-gib and also make sure they don't spawn in the spawn room.  Lastly make the damage received and how the damage is dealt similar to the fashion that a Corpus turret would work.  Now DE you borked Frost and listened to the community and made his Snow Globe more viable.  Please do the same, for now, with this pig of an implementation and re-introduce it when it's fixed.