Arc Trap Review

[R34LM]

After playtesting a couple times on Saturn and Ceres, I have found that the new arc traps are a much better alternative to the broken lights. Keep in mind that it is only my opinion; others are welcome. Let me highlight some points.

 

--The concept is practical and realistic. These things are designed to shoot arcs, compaired to lights that had probably too much power running through them to be able to do so.

 

--The audio cues are loud enough and easy to recognize after some play, which makes them easier to notice.

 

--The damage is fair. While it still is a threat if left unchecked, it gives the player enough time to defuse them before he/she gets fried. My Loki, with a relatively low shield of 495, was still able to defuse them in time. Based on how much damage is done, you can still survive with about 250 shields before it hits your health. Though it is common to apply a redirection mod to your frame, so you may not have to worry. New players or players with low-level frames just need to level up enough to apply redirection before going to higher level galleons to avoid becoming barbecue.

 

--While they are still sometimes hard to spot, the above points makes that acceptable. It is applicable that these traps would be hidden, hence why they are traps. If the player falls for the trap, the arc leads right back to the trap, making it even easier to spot.

 

--I have yet to find out how to use them to an advantage, but the arcs towards players may affect enemies. If that is the case, then it furthers the realism.

 

In conclusion, this is a much better use of an electrical trap. Very well done, DE.

[_numbernin9]

I second that.

[TioMegaManX]

--While they are still sometimes hard to spot, the above points makes that acceptable. It is applicable that these traps would be hidden, hence why they are traps. If the player falls for the trap, the arc leads right back to the trap, making it even easier to spot.

Hard is an understatement sometimes.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B09rimJZxk10MERxN0o0OUlYQXM

Edited March 20, 2014 by VanFanel1980mx

[R34LM]

Hard is an understatement sometimes.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B09rimJZxk10MERxN0o0OUlYQXM

These just came out, so they are still working out bugs. But I agree, that is an exception. I'm sure they will fix that.

[KiJokoBodo]

I blew up a barrel next to the trap, the trap live.

Fix that DE

[TioMegaManX]

These just came out, so they are still working out bugs. But I agree, that is an exception. I'm sure they will fix that.

That sounds like a challenge, I will keep on taking screens of blind spots then.

[CrownFire]

I die a lot more to these traps than i like to admit. Extraction on survival is impossible without air too. It feels like the damage goes straight to hp and negates shields.. idgi..  It feels more like a punishment to me than an obstacle to avoid. I get hit my 3 before i even see them.

[TsundereHvyCruiser]

They are immune to damaging warframe abilities, this should be changed. There is no reason they should take no damage from a Pull, Miasma or everything in a room getting blown up by Mprime or shield polarize AOE when corpus cameras and turrets are damageable by the same abilities.

Edited March 20, 2014 by TsundereHvyCruiser

[Nevyn]

I can agree that these are more "fair" than the shorting lights, but, really, hiding them under bodies and burying them under the chest containers? Stuck to the wall next to a container, okay, but, proof against Reckoning and only taking direct damage to destroy? My sentinel doesn't seem to see them either. Plus, are they in the codex yet? I could scan them (the new sentinel didn't seem to see them), but I couldn't find them after the mission. And what faction are they for? Neither the Corpus nor the Grineer in an Invasion mission seem to be bothered by them. When do we get permanent-until-destroyed Tesla's? Through a mod, perhaps?

[Mr_Immortus]

I blew up a barrel next to the trap, the trap live.

Fix that DE

Yeah. The same could be said when I blew up the spot next to the Trap with my Ogris... the Grineer died. The trap came out unscathed,

[Davoodoo]

They werent so bad when they dropped rare resources(at least there was some incentive to bother with them) but atm they are annoying as hell, dmg is still too high, theres too many of them.

 

Reduce their number by 60-70%, reduce dmg a bit or best solution remove them all together.

Edited March 20, 2014 by Davoodoo

[TargetDummy]

They complitely ignore infested.

And I still think they are bad to exist. There is no point in STEALTH walkthrough when game insist you to shoot a lot on non defence/survival. They zap you even when you are invisible. Energy draining door is another nail in the coffin of stealth.

I remember the time when Warframe was about space ninjas, not yet another shoot 'em up arcade.

Edited March 20, 2014 by TargetDummy

[Tsukinoki]

My biggest complaint with them right now is that they can spawn in the middle of a door and block it. And if they spawn on the other side of a door you can open it up and be zapped with still absolutely no way to predict or prevent it.

That was honestly the biggest complaint I had with them before and its still not fixed. No matter how careful you are you *will* be zapped by them no matter what. They need to give us some way to avoid 100% of them through skill or aiming, and not have them randomly spawn blocking a door and being a pain to get by to finish the damned mission....only time I have ever been happy to be STed by a commander...

Edited March 20, 2014 by Tsukinoki

[R34LM]

I'm seeing a couple of people mentioning poor placing of these traps. The placing of them is as crappy as RNG itself. That's what it runs on. Sometimes we get crates flipped backwards, 20 enemies littered in one small room, and then you get 3 traps around one door. The fact that they can't affect all enemies of the Grineer will likely get changed, and they may be able to do some tweaking to make them appear less, but it's all up to the RNG.

[Tsukinoki]

@R34LM

For the RNG placement they should be able to define areas of the map where some entities cant spawn, such as the arc traps. Then they can make a buffer around the doors and just leave it to RNG everywhere else.

They want to add in checks for the RNG spawn anyways so that when they re-enable floor spawning it wont spawn in another destructible, so why cant they just expand that to being forced to spawn X distance away from doors where X is a little longer than their attack range? Then they can also remove them from the spawn rooms....

Edited March 20, 2014 by Tsukinoki

[Davoodoo]

@R34LM

For the RNG placement they should be able to define areas of the map where some entities cant spawn, such as the arc traps. Then they can make a buffer around the doors and just leave it to RNG everywhere else.

They want to add in checks for the RNG spawn anyways so that when they re-enable floor spawning it wont spawn in another destructible, so why cant they just expand that to being forced to spawn X distance away from doors where X is a little longer than their attack range? Then they can also remove them from the spawn rooms....

Manually place few spots in each room then rng decides how many and which ones of these will have trap on them.

[Tsukinoki]

@Davoodoo

That's exactly how the canisters work and how the traps should work IMO.

The only reason I dont see DE doing it that way is they want it to be traps and not something completely perdictable.

Once you get used to the canister spawns in a tile you only look in those locations and no others because you know that the canisters cant spawn anywhere else. If the traps can spawn anywhere in a room but close to the doors you have a more dynamic element that you dont know where exactly to look for it.

Makes it a lot more like a trap if it isn't 100% predictable like it would be if we could walk into a room and go "Those 5 locations may have an arc trap on them...".

While I think that it may not be a terrible idea, I can see why DE wants them to be more dynamic. Though I still think that even then they could add more pre-conditions to their spawn logic and still have them plenty dynamic.

[R34LM]

@R34LM

For the RNG placement they should be able to define areas of the map where some entities cant spawn, such as the arc traps. Then they can make a buffer around the doors and just leave it to RNG everywhere else.

They want to add in checks for the RNG spawn anyways so that when they re-enable floor spawning it wont spawn in another destructible, so why cant they just expand that to being forced to spawn X distance away from doors where X is a little longer than their attack range? Then they can also remove them from the spawn rooms....

I have never had them show up in spawn rooms. And in terms of your suggestion for their placing, making an exception to put them farther away from doors just doesn't make them traps anymore. You don't put trip wires 5 feet in front of the door so people can see them. They are traps and have to trick you. Sure, it might end up in your death, but (sometimes I have to remind myself) tough luck. I think Davoodoo's suggestion would certainly work, but, like I said, they wouldn't really be traps if you can see them.

 

I was able to get through a Ceres survival without dying with my Loki, with 495 shields and 225 health. There were a couple close calls, mainly because of the situation (shields already being low from enemy fire and a tightly spaced room). These arc are a hell of a lot better than broken lights, but these will take some getting used too. After all, these are the first traps that do direct, targeted damage. Not even void traps top that; they just have lasers to play jump-rope with.

[Tsukinoki]

@R34LM

And the problem with that is the case that I ran across where one was literally blocking a door (as in it spawned in the middle of the doorway, so when the door opened it was floating in air) I *needed* to go through in order to continue the mission and I thankfully had a commander show up to ST me through the door. If that hadn't happened I would have had to abandon because of the placement of the trap. And even though I shot the trap as soon as I could (still got zapped) the destroyed object it leaves behind was solid to my frame.

Further I have spawned in and been hit by 2 of the new traps that zapped me constantly through the entire intro (which I skipped as soon as I could) and both managed to actually remove over half of my shield reserves before I could even do anything. And if it was a nightmare alert I would have ended up dead on spawn again. And because these traps are more than one use it would have definitely taken out everyone else before we could have even tried to destroy them.

And a gameplay element or trap that you have ZERO chance to avoid or prevent is a bad element. Any trap should be avoidable by skill or cautiousness. As it stands thats not entirely true for the arc traps and that should be fixed.

Edited March 20, 2014 by Tsukinoki

[R34LM]

There really isn't a lot to do to make them 100% avoidable, except put them in plain sight so players can shoot them down. What more can the devs do?? All I know is that I have accept them to be there, and most likely to stay the same, because if the devs were not so adamant to have them there, they would have removed the broken lights and not replace it. The devs want these here, so we might as well try our best to develop strategies now. We've done this with all the things in the game. Some strategies are easier than others (shoot the scanner bar). For the arc traps, I suggest this. Listen for them, they are quite easy to hear. If you see it, shoot it. If you don't, rush through the room out of the mine's range and move on. 1/4 of the traps I run into I just rush through their range, because I have better things to work on than deal with little mines.

 

By the way, I am pretty sure they will fix them spawning on doors and in spawn rooms, because that is cheap and therefore not going to stay.

Edited March 20, 2014 by R34LM

[Feallike]

@R34LM

And the problem with that is the case that I ran across where one was literally blocking a door (as in it spawned in the middle of the doorway, so when the door opened it was floating in air) I *needed* to go through in order to continue the mission and I thankfully had a commander show up to ST me through the door. If that hadn't happened I would have had to abandon because of the placement of the trap. And even though I shot the trap as soon as I could (still got zapped) the destroyed object it leaves behind was solid to my frame.

Further I have spawned in and been hit by 2 of the new traps that zapped me constantly through the entire intro (which I skipped as soon as I could) and both managed to actually remove over half of my shield reserves before I could even do anything. And if it was a nightmare alert I would have ended up dead on spawn again. And because these traps are more than one use it would have definitely taken out everyone else before we could have even tried to destroy them.

And a gameplay element or trap that you have ZERO chance to avoid or prevent is a bad element. Any trap should be avoidable by skill or cautiousness. As it stands thats not entirely true for the arc traps and that should be fixed.

 

ok... They, are, traps, you, are, suppose, to, be, hit, by, them, traps, are, not, suppose, to, be, easy, to, get, past.

 

 

The, fact, that, you, can't, get, past, them, easily, makes, the, game, more, realistic.

Edited March 20, 2014 by Feallike

[Tsukinoki]

@R34LM

What I mean by 100% avoidable is if you pay attention and look for them and notice them that you will have a 100% chance of disarming them/avoiding them. They dont need to put them in obvious and visible locations all of the time, but they need to remove the chance at cheap shots that only annoy a player.

When they spawn on doors or on the walls right above doors, or even on overhangs you cant see/reach until you pass, that makes it IMPOSSIBLE to avoid them. That just makes it an annoying tax on your health and nothing else. At which point you get Rhino and ignore them because IS makes all of the traps useless.

A trap should, if it is well designed, punish a player for not paying attention or making a mistake.

As it stands a large amount of the arc traps punish you for merely opening a door in a Grineer galleon.

That is NOT well designed in the least. And it is something that needs to change.

@Feallike

So you're telling me you would be happy with doors that walking through them randomly killed your frame with absolutely no way to avoid it or predict it? (As the broken lights did in nightmare alerts and these probably will to EDIT: And these would be worse because they would stick around after a zap. Meaning that a nightmare alert on a grineer galleon would require a Rhino to get past the doors even if everything else would be a cakewalk.)

Or that your perfectly happy with the traps in the spawn rooms killing squishy frames before they get a chance to move or react?

Both of those are examples of horrible gameplay elements. It doesn't matter how realistic they are there should always be a way to avoid or disarm them before being hit if you are paying attention and being careful.

Otherwise they are a tax on life and nothing else.

A trap SHOULD be avoidable if you pay attention, and disarm it. If you run by you should be hit. As it is these traps cant be noticed or seen until they are triggered a majority of the time due to placement. Also I am not asking for easily getting by them. Just dont make it impossible to get by them. There is a huge difference there.

Realistic does NOT make good gameplay in this case.

Even in Darksouls where there were traps they were ALWAYS avoidable or blockable if you paid attention. And that game had actual challenge. So please dont say that a trap has to be unavoidable to be challenging. There are much better ways to make the traps interesting and actually challenging and just not a cheap unavoidable hit on the players life.

Edited March 20, 2014 by Tsukinoki

[Taranis49]

ok... They, are, traps, you, are, suppose, to, be, hit, by, them, traps, are, not, suppose, to, be, easy, to, get, past.

 

 

The, fact, that, you, can't, get, past, them, easily, makes, the, game, more, realistic.

 

Having the traps being completely undetectable or unavoidable (since there's still cases where they can strike through intervening obstacles before they can be dealt with) under any circumstance is just plain poor from a gameplay standpoint.

 

it's not particularly logical or realistic either. The simple act of placing a trap itself means there's going to be signs it's there... or atleast reason to suspect it is - no competent military wastes resources or time planting mines inside a toilet tank or under the fridge or any old place an enemy might happen across, because it's not a likely route of advance.

 

Nevermind that the silly electric traps can't be destroyed/disarmed via explosives and other AoE effects... you know, actual methods we use for disarming traps in real life.

Edited March 20, 2014 by Taranis49

[Derugzi]

So I started up Warframe today and just found so many Arc Traps

 

Initial Thoughts were:

 

1. What the hell was that? Ok it keeps firing more than once... and I just died...

2. So these replaced faulty gear? Over-powered as heck...

3. Random Zaps from Hidden Arc Trap that I couldn't see or find killed me again...

4. To many Arc Traps in a Room, I swear there are to many as I had like 3-4 lined up in a spot

 

Final Thoughts:

 

1. Fix this please

2. I miss the old faulty gear a bit because their numbers (3 in a room to the 9-11 Arc Traps per Room), I could see the messed up lights, and they were one shot use.

3. At least place them in spots that would make sense and not all over, I get it's random but having them all over doesn't make sense... We are fighting highly intelligent alien people who may be mutated humans! I'm sure they wouldn't toss hazardous traps all over but near containers or reactors to protect them.

4. Lower Damage

5. Currently this heavily affects stealth gameplay. 

6. Could we get a mod that alters the traps so they work on enemies? Would be an interesting development to stealth in-game.

Edited March 21, 2014 by albetmachine

[TonyFoot]

Would be really nice if they added a timer delay, with maybe a sound effect (BEEP BEEP BEEPBEEPBEEP BEBEBEBEEEEEE)to let you know its about to go off. That way, if its hiding behind a door or something else, you have a moment to swoop in and smash it before it goes off, or dive out of the range.

 

Would also be kinda cool (classics for the win!).