Retune *all* The Frames! (11/19: Wildfire)

[Archwizard]

- Maybe Soul Punch could draw aggro from your own minions to the afflicted target? Perhaps this would be too much given how many functions your Soul Punch currently has. If it's not too much, maybe it'd only attract the attention of a few Shadows so that your entire squad isn't focusing just one mob.

- There are a couple functions for Shadows that I could have sworn were in older versions of the write up... Or maybe I'm misremembering things. Anyway, giving all Tenno the ability to walk and shoot through Nekros' minions would help make the ability a lot less annoying for everyone. In addition, I feel like Nekros should be able to summon his zoo to him with the press of 4, at the cost of a little energy. This would help Shadows fit better into more mobile mission types, since you often have to leave them behind when you're moving around.

 

The ability to walk and shoot through minions was in there, but to be honest, even I skipped over it a couple times re-reading when you mentioned. I edited it to clarify, as well as adding your summon suggestion; I don't think it needs an extra energy cost, since they're already active and don't have a full duration, just misplaced.

 

There's a "focus target" command under the General section that would serve the purpose you suggest for Soul Punch.

[BETAOPTICS]

 This issue here is, that "rail gun" type of abilities have had little/no success here. Part of it is that mobs find cover pretty quickly, and scatter. Even when they are initially walking towards  you down a hall, they are not all in just one line. If warframe had more mobs that dealth less damage, maybe it would be good. The only reason punch thru guns work is because you are literally firing hundreds of rounds over the course of the game, and you are not activating hundreds of skills over the course of a game.

Yeah I know. It would more or less serve in a very specific scenarios effectively than anything else. But when you think about it, which one would be better. As it stands, the current version is basically the same except weaker when you eventually do end up using it. Sure, there could be better more convenient or practical abilities that could overtake the ability, but that might not be necessary to make every ability good, convenient or practical unless in a very specific situations if the kit, gameplay and/or other abilities compliment for this one ability that is so dependent on specific scenarios. Now I am not saying your argument is wrong by any means. I am merely explaining where I am coming from with this idea.

Taiiat posed a good argument which I also recognized at the time of my writing about how you could keep the current ability with a mix of the iteration I suggested by buffing the current ability and while indeed it would serve the purpose just as well, if not better for the player. The only argument I would still pose is would it be fun gameplay wise. I mean in addition to the issue of it being lacking ability in the background, my biggest issue personally is how passive, forgettable and uninteresting ability it is gameplay wise.

At least, if my suggested iteration would replace the ability, it would be better to remember and more satisfying to use and a bit more fun gameplay wise I feel. Could there be better suggestions, better versions or that this is simply my own gripe with it? Yes, yes and yes. I am not saying that because I personally feel that the ability in its current function is so passive and boring that it might as well be her special passive, kind of like Zephyrs but that is only my gripe with it. Although I would wager that quite mane would share my sentiment in a long run.

[Archwizard]

Today I learned that Limbo's Rift Surge is, in fact, a totally selfish buff; it only affects his weapons, rather than the entire team's entire output.

 

I'm not exactly sure why it's separate from Rift Walk in that case, but I do think it needs to be reworked. Stuck a bandaid to it in the OP, but I believe there's a more elegant solution for this one out there...

Edited December 7, 2014 by Archwizard

[Elydir]

I was disappointed ( lightly ) when I heard about Mesa and instantly had an ability in my mind that I have been wishing to exist and the last two Frames thematically could have been able to have it. My idea, and I think this works better for Mesa would be to have an ability ( probably replace 1st ) Whereby Mesa takes out one or both Peacemakers. In this 1 second animation, she takes out a pistol or both, aims them and after that 1 second delay, shoots a heavy damaging pullet in straight line, which would then be able to pierce multiple enemies in the track of that bullet. I think that this sort of charge to shoot in line multiple enemies would fit Mesa, and certainly when you actually think about it, we have no abilities like that, only weapons that have similar function.

 

I think thats kinda the point of the change to her first skill in the OP.

[Archwizard]

Last night I went back and took a second run at my summation of Mesa in the OP. I had a lingering worry that I had perhaps put her in the OP too soon after her release, and that my findings were not yet perfectly objective as we all came down from the high of the hypetrain. With more time to consider my reasoning, I restructured her section.

[BETAOPTICS]

I think thats kinda the point of the change to her first skill in the OP.

As far as I am concerned, it was not in the suggestion before. I could be wrong and be discrediting Archwizard here though. Was it there originally or did you add that suggestion there Archwizard?

[Archwizard]

As far as I am concerned, it was not in the suggestion before. I could be wrong and be discrediting Archwizard here though. Was it there originally or did you add that suggestion there Archwizard?

 

It was there in the original writeup of Mesa. It was essentially the first thing I thought of concerning any of Mesa's powers, once complaints arose.

[BETAOPTICS]

It was there in the original writeup of Mesa. It was essentially the first thing I thought of concerning any of Mesa's powers, once complaints arose.

I must have missed it then so sorry about that. Regardless good job on your thread, really liking what you do here as I would agree with most of these things or see them as good enough iterations and changes that certainly would make the Warframes better from what we have now.

[Jinryusai]

Ballistic Battery could work like this...

 

Edited December 10, 2014 by Jinryusai

[-FV-Wsocks]

I would suggest that Ash's teleport follow the same targeting as Loki's Decoy. You can place a decoy at a target or at a specific space. This would make Ash far more mobile and wouldn't limit his ability to stagger targets by teleporting to them. 

[taiiat]

I would suggest that Ash's teleport follow the same targeting as Loki's Decoy. You can place a decoy at a target or at a specific space. This would make Ash far more mobile and wouldn't limit his ability to stagger targets by teleporting to them. 

they'd both be doing the same thing though.

we want Warframes to be unique from one another, it's critically important that they are unique from one another.

 

while i concur that Teleport can feel d'aww sometimes when there's no Enemies around to Teleport to, it is a powerful Ability for slapping Priority Targets without having to wade through the Lesser Units.

[Elydir]

I would suggest that Ash's teleport follow the same targeting as Loki's Decoy. You can place a decoy at a target or at a specific space. This would make Ash far more mobile and wouldn't limit his ability to stagger targets by teleporting to them. 

 

Ash

- Teleport can be cast without a target, moving the player as close to the targeted location as Power Range allows. If a target is selected, casting Teleport automatically begins a hastened finisher on the enemy - skip the elaborate weapon draw, and double the animation speed of the strike. 

Don't skim the list! This post is a frequently-updated compilation of months of feedback and brainstorming, and I already simplify the suggestions as much as I can. At least check that your suggestion for your favorite frame isn't already listed!

[(PSN)teh1tank]

Hello again, I have a couple more suggestions, more like minor tweaks to some of the frames.

 

Ember:

-For fireball, would be nice to add an "auto-aim" feature, just like Ash's shuriken.

-For accelerant, why not make it a team buff and give friendly Tenno fire damage to their base damage.

 For example, you have Ember and a friendly Tenno has an excalibur equipped with Braton, Lato and Skana with no mods. If Ember activates accelerant, Excalibur gains heat damage to all his weapons but not his abilities. The suggestion you had in the OP of increasing heat-based combination is also viable here. Nvm, I just saw Fireball Frenzy :|

 

Mag:

-Not sure if working as intended or glitch, but Shield Polarize doesn't seem to work on downed enemies or enemies who are getting up. For example, after using pull, enemies fall all around you. If you immediately use Shield Polarize while they are still down they don't seem to take damage. Can somebody comment on this for me?

Edited December 11, 2014 by (PS4)teh1tank

[taiiat]

-For fireball, would be nice to add an "auto-aim" feature, just like Ash's shuriken.

i am extremely hesitant on that, because Fireball is capable of Headshots, and also being aimed skillfully.

if it autoaimed, it would probably ruin that, since automatic aiming generally ruins anything but the most basic actions.

 

there's ways for those systems to not do so, but getting it just right doesn't usually happen.

 

even in Mass Effect, sometimes i'd want to hit N Enemy with Y Ability, and while the aim assistance in Mass Effect works pretty well, sometimes it still targets the wrong Enemy.

[(PSN)teh1tank]

i am extremely hesitant on that, because Fireball is capable of Headshots, and also being aimed skillfully.

if it autoaimed, it would probably ruin that, since automatic aiming generally ruins anything but the most basic actions.

 

there's ways for those systems to not do so, but getting it just right doesn't usually happen.

 

even in Mass Effect, sometimes i'd want to hit N Enemy with Y Ability, and while the aim assistance in Mass Effect works pretty well, sometimes it still targets the wrong Enemy.

 

They got it right with Ash. The auto aim there isn't op, and doesn't go for headshots. Also, "aimed skillfully" is a relative term. You guys are lucky enough to play on PC where aiming is easy. On consoles, aiming that ability and firing it simultaneously is more difficult, on PS4 anyway.

[taiiat]

The auto aim there isn't op, and doesn't go for headshots.

isn't that the exact problem then? trying to aim an aimed Ability when the game is fighting against you.... :s

 

any sort of automatic system would preferably be optional.

[(PSN)teh1tank]

isn't that the exact problem then? trying to aim an aimed Ability when the game is fighting against you.... :s

 

any sort of automatic system would preferably be optional.

 

If I thought the way Ash's shuriken was a problem I wouldn't have suggested this. Besides, the way Ash's auto-aim works is if you aim at enemy, it goes straight so it doesn't punish you if you were aiming for a headshot. If you simply aim in the general direction of enemy it curves mid-air to hit the enemy even if the cross-hairs weren't on said enemy, but it doesn't automatically give you a headshot if you weren't aiming for it.

Edited December 11, 2014 by (PS4)teh1tank

[MotherofHermes]

@archwizard 

They went and did it. They took most of our ideas and turned them into syndicate mods. Rather than simply changing frost's, excal's, or embers abilities the new fix is clearly syndicate mods. I didn't think this would happen...but then it did...../sigh

 

now i realize certain things are a matter of power scope. Saryn SHOULD have to spend mod points to heal herself when using molt. Trinity SHOULD have to spend mod points to reduce enemy armor with link. 

 

But panic procs on embers already awful fireblast? excal's slash dash adding to combo multiplier with a mod? really? we've been asking for this as a presumed part of the balance scope for a long time. I feel depressed and ignored. Worst of all when it comes to frame buff/nerfs DE never says anything until patch notes. So yeah. more ignored feeling. What do?

[Archwizard]

@archwizard 

They went and did it. They took most of our ideas and turned them into syndicate mods. Rather than simply changing frost's, excal's, or embers abilities the new fix is clearly syndicate mods. I didn't think this would happen...but then it did...../sigh

 

Yeah. I've put my thoughts in on the devstream questions list, but I don't have high hopes they'll be spotted.

 

The most we can do right now is keep asking the question until they reconsider.

Edited December 12, 2014 by Archwizard

[Noble_Cactus]

I've taken the week off to work on real life stuff/play other games and I saw the new augment mods. Okay, they didn't bother buffing the base abilities. At least most of the augments are interesting and promote team cohesion; I was actually going to suggest Eclipse's augment in this very thread.

 

And then I saw Despoil.

 

Sigh.

Edited December 12, 2014 by Noble_Cactus

[Elydir]

I've taken the week off to work on real life stuff/play other games and I saw the new augment mods. Okay, they didn't bother buffing the base abilities. At least most of the augments are interesting and promote team cohesion; I was actually going to suggest Eclipse's augment in this very thread.

 

And then I saw Despoil.

 

Sigh.

 

You think Despoils bad, Ember got boned.

[EvanTheNewbie]

I've taken the week off to work on real life stuff/play other games and I saw the new augment mods. Okay, they didn't bother buffing the base abilities. At least most of the augments are interesting and promote team cohesion; I was actually going to suggest Eclipse's augment in this very thread.

 

And then I saw Despoil.

 

Sigh.

Y'know, despoil is rad. You take a hit to health with it desecrate, pick up a health orb from desecrate, equilibrium turns it into energy and you repeat to refill energy. Those pesky parasite eximus' have no power over me. Having desecrate not tied to energy really opens up a lot of things. I was even able to fit in a strength mod to improve shadows a bit, along with soul survivor. With soul survivor draining energy, I can still desecrate and get back to full energy in no time.

[taiiat]

Y'know, despoil is rad. You take a hit to health with it desecrate, pick up a health orb from desecrate, equilibrium turns it into energy and you repeat to refill energy. Those pesky parasite eximus' have no power over me. Having desecrate not tied to energy really opens up a lot of things. I was even able to fit in a strength mod to improve shadows a bit, along with soul survivor. With soul survivor draining energy, I can still desecrate and get back to full energy in no time.

Despoil needs Efficiency still though, unfortunately.

 

it's useful, but you end up needing more Mods to use it.

[Noble_Cactus]

Y'know, despoil is rad. You take a hit to health with it desecrate, pick up a health orb from desecrate, equilibrium turns it into energy and you repeat to refill energy. Those pesky parasite eximus' have no power over me. Having desecrate not tied to energy really opens up a lot of things. I was even able to fit in a strength mod to improve shadows a bit, along with soul survivor. With soul survivor draining energy, I can still desecrate and get back to full energy in no time.

Well my point was that Despoil just further cements Nekros' role as an immobile loot machine. I don't need to go into why many people in this thread don't like that because it's littered on nearly every page.

And yeah, Fire Panic is pretty nutty :x The shining example of bandaid features that should already be a part of the ability.

Edited December 13, 2014 by Noble_Cactus

[EvanTheNewbie]

Well my point was that Despoil just further cements Nekros' role as a loot machine. I don't need to go into why many people in this thread don't like that because it's littered on nearly every page.

I don't disagree, but having Despoil tie into health gives wiggle room to be more offensive with the ult and terrify. The ult and terrify are still pretty bad in my book, though. I'm still looking forward to when they actually do do something to make him less of a farmer, I just think that this bandaid makes him more palatable to me, personally.