Proto Armor Should Mask Over Helmets, Not Replace Them

[shut]

Title.

 

I was ridiculously excited when I bought the skin, but the excitement plummeted when I noticed that wearing the skin meant that I can no longer receive stats from Pendragon or Avalon helmets.

I was spouting on about how great the Proto skin was a couple hours ago, but considering that it didn't mention anywhere that you'd be losing the ability to wear alt helms for a cost of 150 plat, I'm having second thoughts.

 

It'd be great if the Proto armor merely acted as a skin slapped on top of any additional helmet stat bonuses rather than something that replaced them outright. It's not like looking good + having the stats you want is "overpowered" or anything, it just adds to customization (which is always a plus in any game).

 

 

EDIT: To clarify, I'm not suggesting that new Proto Pendragon or Proto Avalon appearances be made or anything like that. I'm suggesting that you wear the Proto set exactly as it is now, but you can freely select between Default, Avalon, or Pendragon's stat bonuses as you wear it.

Edited March 27, 2014 by SortaRandom

[RyojinOrion]

I completely agree. If we can't have the original heads over the skin, we should at least be able to have their stats while the actual model being masked by the Proto skin.

[Cemges]

De already wants to replace stat helms so, I don't think your demand is reasonable considering the roadmap DE has explained.

[ChaoticVice777]

It also made me disappointed as well, but think about it these ways:

 

1) It's almost as if you're purchasing an entirely new Warframe. The Immortal Skins give different textures to a Warframe, while the Proto-Armor skin changes everything.

 

2) I don't think the Proto-Armor was advanced enough to accept alternative helmets from the future.

 

3) You're purchasing the combination of an alternative helmet (75 platinum), a skin (40 platinum), and a limited edition price (35 platinum).

[8bit_Ghost]

It would be a little awkward making 4 different decals for Excalibur's helmets. Textures would be resized, remapped, reappropriated. A bit too much work. Besides, it wouldn't complete the Hayden Tenno look if he had a different helm, right? I know customization is super awesome but this is supposed to be the original Excalibur and the helmet is part of that look. Changing it defeats the purpose.

[RyojinOrion]

De already wants to replace stat helms so, I don't think your demand is reasonable considering the roadmap DE has explained.

 

I dunno. It doesn't seem that unreasonable to want to use one of the variant head skins with the variant body skin.

 

 

It also made me disappointed as well, but think about it these ways:

 

1) It's almost as if you're purchasing an entirely new Warframe. The Immortal Skins give different textures to a Warframe, while the Proto-Armor skin changes everything.

 

2) I don't think the Proto-Armor was advanced enough to accept alternative helmets from the future.

 

3) You're purchasing the combination of an alternative helmet (75 platinum), a skin (40 platinum), and a limited edition price (35 platinum).

 

Your logic doesn't seem that sound to me, but I am pretty inebriated right now, so I could be wrong. :p

[BizarreFetalChimpanzee]

It would be a little awkward making 4 different decals for Excalibur's helmets. Textures would be resized, remapped, reappropriated. A bit too much work. Besides, it wouldn't complete the Hayden Tenno look if he had a different helm, right? I know customization is super awesome but this is supposed to be the original Excalibur and the helmet is part of that look. Changing it defeats the purpose.

I don't think he means "let me run around as proto-excal with a pendragon/avalon helmet." I'm pretty sure he's meaning "keep the skin, but let me have the stats of the helmets, if I so choose to use them." If this is the case that I understood his main point correctly, then this argument against the suggestion, at least at a glance, seems invalid. 

[shut]

I don't think he means "let me run around as proto-excal with a pendragon/avalon helmet." I'm pretty sure he's meaning "keep the skin, but let me have the stats of the helmets, if I so choose to use them." If this is the case that I understood his main point correctly, then this argument against the suggestion, at least at a glance, seems invalid. 

Yeah, that's what I meant. Stats only; nothing visual.

 

 

De already wants to replace stat helms so, I don't think your demand is reasonable considering the roadmap DE has explained.

Honestly, I think DE's roadmap itself is unreasonable. Their proposed solution to stat helmets is to keep the stats but turn them into game-changing exclusives. That doesn't solve anything; it only adds one new problem on top of the list. xD

 

The best way to go would be to allow helmets and their stats be equipped independently of each other. So you can wear Default helmet and use Avalon stats, or wear Pendragon and use Default stats, or, of course, wear Proto and use Pendragon stats.

This has been suggested for ages, and I have yet to see someone post a significant downside to this system.

[Jiminez_Burial]

De already wants to replace stat helms so, I don't think your demand is reasonable considering the roadmap DE has explained.

They have also mentioned that you can keep the helms stats if you already have the helm, so why would they do that, and not put a few extra lines of code into the game giving players what they want?

[MEsoJD]

We should have been given a heads up about the change before purchasing. This was a new move and as the consumer we were not properly educated on this item. How the hell would i know that the helms I purchased were incompatible with this skin when other skins in the past were? This wouldn't be an issue for me if the item didn't cost money. I hope they come up with a solution.

[SquirmyBurrito]

The best way to go would be to allow helmets and their stats be equipped independently of each other. So you can wear Default helmet and use Avalon stats, or wear Pendragon and use Default stats, or, of course, wear Proto and use Pendragon stats.

This has been suggested for ages, and I have yet to see someone post a significant downside to this system.

 

I disagree. IMO, the best way to go would be to just completely remove all stats. No exclusive issue, no stat issue, no imbalance issue, nothing. Just good old fashioned cosmetics with nothing further encouraging/discouraging your choice.

 

On topic: The 'skin' is a two in one. Just like you can't expect to get the stats of pendragon when you equip avalon, you shouldn't expect to keep the stats of one helmet while wearing the proto one (which happens to come bundled with the skin at all times).

Edited March 27, 2014 by SquirmyBurrito

[shut]

I disagree. IMO, the best way to go would be to just completely remove all stats. No exclusive issue, no stat issue, no imbalance issue, nothing. Just good old fashioned cosmetics with nothing further encouraging/discouraging your choice.

 

On topic: The 'skin' is a two in one. Just like you can't expect to get the stats of pendragon when you equip avalon, you shouldn't expect to keep the stats of one helmet while wearing the proto one (which happens to come bundled with the skin at all times).

 

I think that removing stats altogether is better than the path that DE currently wants to go towards, but I see it only as the lesser of two evils. I think it would be much better to simply give all helmets their own stats (new ones included), but allow players to select the stats separately.

 

Want to use another helmet's stats? No problem. Don't want to use any stats at all? No problem. All of these become viable options. Players should be given the option to customize both appearance and playstyle with full freedom, independently of each other. DE's plan to make stats old-player-exclusive will accomplish neither of these things, and removing stats altogether will only accomplish one. Separation of helms and stats accomplish both with minimal effort and minimal complaints from the players, since they're losing literally nothing.

 

The only downside that separation of helms and stats will have is the issue of "overpowered" helmets such as Vanguard and Essence (an issue that will only be as prevalent as it is now). Some rebalancing may have to be done. It's not urgent, though; in terms of imbalances, helmets really aren't too bad.

Edited March 27, 2014 by SortaRandom

[Rakosta_Kai]

I think that removing stats altogether is better than the path that DE currently wants to go towards, but I see it only as the lesser of two evils. I think it would be much better to simply give all helmets their own stats (new ones included), but allow players to select the stats separately.

 

Want to use another helmet's stats? No problem. Don't want to use any stats at all? No problem. All of these become viable options. Players should be given the option to customize both appearance and playstyle with full freedom, independently of each other. DE's plan to make stats old-player-exclusive will accomplish neither of these things, and removing stats altogether will only accomplish one. Separation of helms and stats accomplish both with minimal effort and minimal complaints from the players, since they're losing literally nothing.

 

The only downside that separation of helms and stats will have is the issue of "overpowered" helmets such as Vanguard and Essence (an issue that will only be as prevalent as it is now). Some rebalancing may have to be done. It's not urgent, though; in terms of imbalances, helmets really aren't too bad.

I like this idea.

It promotes freedom of build and freedom of look at the same time. All while evening out the playing field for all frames and providing build diversity without a lot of fractious bickering.

[SquirmyBurrito]

I think that removing stats altogether is better than the path that DE currently wants to go towards, but I see it only as the lesser of two evils. I think it would be much better to simply give all helmets their own stats (new ones included), but allow players to select the stats separately.

 

Want to use another helmet's stats? No problem. Don't want to use any stats at all? No problem. All of these become viable options. Players should be given the option to customize both appearance and playstyle with full freedom, independently of each other. DE's plan to make stats old-player-exclusive will accomplish neither of these things, and removing stats altogether will only accomplish one. Separation of helms and stats accomplish both with minimal effort and minimal complaints from the players, since they're losing literally nothing.

 

The only downside that separation of helms and stats will have is the issue of "overpowered" helmets such as Vanguard and Essence (an issue that will only be as prevalent as it is now). Some rebalancing may have to be done. It's not urgent, though; in terms of imbalances, helmets really aren't too bad.

 

You think Essence is OP... take all my lols.

[shut]

You think Essence is OP... take all my lols.

I don't mean that in a "game breaking" sense, but come on, +15% efficiency with no downside is a teensy bit above the par level set by the stock helmet that all helms should gravitate around. There is literally no reason to use Default over Essence when you look at the stats, and that's a bit of an issue. Not exclusive to Essence, mind you.

As I mentioned, alt helms should promote alternate, "specialized" playstyles. They should have advantages that allow them to excel in specific areas, but there should be downsides to counter it. Essence does not fit this description.

[Rakosta_Kai]

You think Essence is OP... take all my lols.

What's funnier is that you think Vanguard is....

[shut]

What's funnier is that you think Vanguard is....

Am I detecting a reference to an argument in a different thread?

If I am, then please keep your argument in that thread.

Edited March 27, 2014 by SortaRandom

[Rakosta_Kai]

Am I detecting a reference to an argument in a different thread?

If I am, then please keep your argument in that thread.

Nope...

You mentioned 2 specific helmets... I noted I completely agreed with your assessment. if they became available to everyone those two (amongst others) would need to be adjusted.

 

Squirmy only noted Essence... Which suggests he feels Vanguard is in need of adjustment more than Essence.

Which isn't true... 

Nor would it be true for Aura, Pulse, Chorus, Vespa, or Meridian.

 

if you want to caution someone for de-railing... Caution Squirmy first.

[shut]

Nope...

You mentioned 2 specific helmets... I noted I completely agreed with your assessment. if they became available to everyone those two (amongst others) would need to be adjusted.

 

Squirmy only noted Essence... Which suggests he feels Vanguard is in need of adjustment more than Essence.

Which isn't true... 

Nor would it be true for Aura, Pulse, Chorus, Vespa, or Meridian.

 

if you want to caution someone for de-railing... Caution Squirmy first.

Haha, my bad.

In any case, this is getting slightly off-topic. Let's end the specific helmet discussion and bring the attention back to the Proto skin.

[SquirmyBurrito]

What's funnier is that you think Vanguard is....

 

Stop. You want to debate that, take it to the other thread.

 

I don't mean that in a "game breaking" sense, but come on, +15% efficiency with no downside is a teensy bit above the par level set by the stock helmet that all helms should gravitate around. There is literally no reason to use Default over Essence when you look at the stats, and that's a bit of an issue. Not exclusive to Essence, mind you.

As I mentioned, alt helms should promote alternate, "specialized" playstyles. They should have advantages that allow them to excel in specific areas, but there should be downsides to counter it. Essence does not fit this description.

 

It doesn't completely outshine his other stat helmet, and it doesn't cover his innate weakness (low health, shields, and armor). The only helmets that give you any reason to use the default over them are the ones that are aimed at stamina, because most (or all) have terrible downsides and pathetic upsides. Essence (pathetically) further decreases Loki's squishyness. Now, that is not to say that I don't support the complete removal of stats on all helmets or (if DE absolutely refuses to do that) a large increase to their debuffs across the board. I just don't think the Essence helmet is OP for the reasons I started.

 

Caution Squirmy first.

 

Just stop.

Edited March 27, 2014 by SquirmyBurrito

[Rakosta_Kai]

Haha, my bad.

In any case, this is getting slightly off-topic. Let's end the specific helmet discussion and bring the attention back to the Proto skin.

Apologies for the derail. It's not my intent.

It would be very good for this to get hammered out sooner rather than later as I am inclined to think that skins like Proto will only get more prevalent as time goes on.

DE stands to make more money if they can release opposite sex frames (female Ash for example) as skins as opposed to reserving content for them. That's just one form skins have the ability of taking.

I have the sneaking suspicion that helmets are closer our weapons inthe manner implemented than they are cosmetic though which may be where the issue lies.

Either way, I'm sure it can be fixed if DE decides to do so.

[Toom1275]

I can't really use this skin on either of my Excaliburs without a downside. My normal Excalibur needs his Pendragon to squeeze as much height as possible from his Super Jump, since the only function I have for that frame is to be a sneak-thief and hopping up into all the secret loot holes in levels. My Prime has the problem that if I have any helmet other than the Excal Prime base helmet, he's pretty much indistinguishable from a regular Excal. I stick with the base Prime helmets for the other Primes for similar reasons.

 

I'd like to see the proto skin broken into a Helmet part and a Body part like the Phased skin for Vauban. While I'd look pretty silly with a not-completely-matching head compared to the body, it's better than being unable to use the Proto skin at all. And players that want the complete Proto look can just equip the Helmet portion and have everything look just the same as it does now.

[theammostore]

Apologies for the derail. It's not my intent.

It would be very good for this to get hammered out sooner rather than later as I am inclined to think that skins like Proto will only get more prevalent as time goes on.

DE stands to make more money if they can release opposite sex frames (female Ash for example) as skins as opposed to reserving content for them. That's just one form skins have the ability of taking.

I have the sneaking suspicion that helmets are closer our weapons inthe manner implemented than they are cosmetic though which may be where the issue lies.

Either way, I'm sure it can be fixed if DE decides to do so.

DE already stated something on opposite sex frames (I'm just going to call them OSF for easier typing), in which that they'd probably give gender swapped themes, rather than literal frames. Example everyone gives is Ember and Blaze, where Blaze would have his own set of powers. (seperate conversation for a separate thread)

 

More on topic, I'm not so sure about the skin just masking over helms and not replacing them. It's meant to be a nod to Dark Sector, the original Warframe before publishers got involved. While I wouldn't be horrified or upset about us getting a Proto Pendragon or whatever, I don't think it'd be really worth the effort to make that a reality.

[Oriviagene]

Agreed,altho I love that skin I want my pendragon buff helmet >.<