Thoughts On Founder Exclusivity

[PoorCensored]

The only real speculation is what the greater proportion of traders would have done without a trading system in place. If they were already actively purchasing plat en masse before this avenue opened up, then yes my entire arguement here is completely invalid because the plat is now just effectively being purchased indirectly.

It really isn't that far of a stretch to assume that there is a large bulk of traders who have never or would have never purchased plat with real life currency. I will admit, though, that it is likely impossible to prove or disprove without data from DE that we can never hope to actually acquire.

I think it's a little bit more complicated than that, but I completely agree that it is currently unknown.

You have to account for elasticity of currency. So, say player 0 wants a item that costs 150p in the store, and the item is available for trade as well from player 1, but player 1 is only asking 50p. Player 0 buys 100 less platinum from DE and, instead of that platinum immediately becoming destroyed by the purchase, 50p now goes to player 1. Player 1 sees an item of the same type, but different style, as the item he just sold that he wants. Like the item he traded away, it cost 150p, but player 1 is a shrewd trader and finds player 2 offering it for 50p. Player 1 makes the trade. Now player 0 and 1 both have the items they want, player 2 has 50p, and DE only made 50p, instead of 300p; and DE may lose further money as the trading cycle continues...

Of course, that presumes everyone would purchase at the store price, but we don't know what percentage would - and I don't think DE has enough data to figure that out. Even large companies and governments have trouble sorting out that sort of data. (We can't use common trade values to determine maximum price willing to be paid by all consumers, as consumers may very likely accept offers below their maximum cost threshold; and we are comparing a pseudo free market with a monopoly for overall wealth benefit for the monopoly holder.)

I agree that we just don't know.

Edited April 8, 2014 by PoorCensored

[Aggh]

You really think it's that easy to hide from creditors?

 

See, that's the thing: I don't think the legal situation says no. It would need very thorough analysis going over the laws that govern contracts between players and DE, the implied promises, the laws of their incorporation rules, the canadian tort... I think they're in the clear, but it would take a bit of research to be sure.

 

Also, it looks like they updated the ToS without telling us? I don't remember the section on epilepsy or implied endorsements existing previously.

Like most ToS it also has a clause where it says they can change the TS any time they want and that we don't have to be notified about it :|

[VergilDT]

Forenote: I neither desire nor have any stake in getting Founders stuff. I didnt get it because I was too broke at the time and that's obviously just too bad for me. Same goes for exclusive event stuff, my laptop was a brick for a few events before I got a new one, again too bad for me.

Easy solution here boys, release a skin pack that makes said items look like the prime ones, the only real difference between Founders and the normal stuff can be remedied with a few forma. Founders get the real deal as they should and with a little work and a bit of platinum anybody that wants it can look shiny too.

[(PSN)nightmare1100]

My Thoughts on the matter

That was on pc, they should have added it to ps4 when it was released, even for few months would have been nice.

Edited April 8, 2014 by (PS4)nightmare1100

[nobucketrequired]

That was on pc, they should have added it to ps4 when it was released, even for few months would have been nice.

 

this is the worlds smallest violin playing just for you

 

Edited April 8, 2014 by BACON4BREAKFAST

[Abenoki]

Lol...ps4 players be bringin the heat today xD

Not a terrible idea...but not gonna happen...I regret putting off buying founders then not being able to get it in time :c

[-CdG-Obtenebris]

There's plenty of things I'd love to have and I'm a Founder. I'd love to have a Snipetron or Snipetron Vandal. Or some of the other Vandal stuff that I missed or a Strun Wraith. But guess what? I'm not getting it. I'll agree with some others in that your idea is interesting and well though out, but like someone earlier said it would be breach of contract.

 

Something similar happened with League of Legends where there was a special skin for the champion Annie. Said skin was only available via buying this special bundle for YEARS, and when Annie got a visual update Riot Games wanted to put this special Annie skin up for anyone to buy for one week. Not permanently, just one week. There was so much fury from veterans and new players alike that Riot backed off because people were declaring fraud as the skin was labeled exclusive to the bundle.

 

If DE gave access to Founder's gear(which as others said isn't even that good) there'd be fraud issues. Plus it's not like Founder's gear is the only thing you can't get anymore. Did you miss out on the Vandal gear? Oh well. Did you miss out on one or more of the Wraith weapons? Too bad. Did you miss out on the Cicero Crisis or Tethra's Doom event mods? Unless you feel like shelling out a LOT of plat for them, you're gonna have to live with it. And another example, there's the Primed Chamber mod. There's only 100 in existence(assuming some haven't been sold in-game for credits lol) and only the top 100 players from a single event got them. You can't even trade them anymore because some people were trading them for THOUSANDS of plat. Should we be asking for DE to give us any of this simply because we missed out? Nope, because we didn't earn them the way everyone else did. 

[Llyssa]

That was on pc, they should have added it to ps4 when it was released, even for few months would have been nice.

Why?

 

I think it's a little bit more complicated than that, but I completely agree that it is currently unknown.

You have to account for elasticity of currency. So, say player 0 wants a item that costs 150p in the store, and the item is available for trade as well from player 1, but player 1 is only asking 50p. Player 0 buys 100 less platinum from DE and, instead of that platinum immediately becoming destroyed by the purchase, 50p now goes to player 1. Player 1 sees an item of the same type, but different style, as the item he just sold that he wants. Like the item he traded away, it cost 150p, but player 1 is a shrewd trader and finds player 2 offering it for 50p. Player 1 makes the trade. Now player 0 and 1 both have the items they want, player 2 has 50p, and DE only made 50p, instead of 300p; and DE may lose further money as the trading cycle continues...

Of course, that presumes everyone would purchase at the store price, but we don't know what percentage would - and I don't think DE has enough data to figure that out. Even large companies and governments have trouble sorting out that sort of data. (We can't use common trade values to determine maximum price willing to be paid by all consumers, as consumers may very likely accept offers below their maximum cost threshold; and we are comparing a pseudo free market with a monopoly for overall wealth benefit for the monopoly holder.)

I agree that we just don't know.

Except you can't trade any item that you can buy in the store.

[Sixty5]

That was on pc, they should have added it to ps4 when it was released, even for few months would have been nice.

I'll clarify

[LoGicMoTion]

if founder gear were to ever be available for trade.

I'd buy exacalibur prime for 10k easily.

[VK4502b]

I want it to stay exclusive, but being able to sell it, complete. (No parts or BP's)

I wouldn't sell it myself, but for people willing to pay/sell it 10K or more it's a good thing.

[sedu13]

Let's add the factor of player choice here:

 

You had 400 bucks. Warframe was available on PC and on the PS4, only the PS4 hadn't launched yet. You could have bought a PC with your Playstation money, yet you chose not to. You waited, while the deal expired.

 

"But I didn't even know Warframe existed!"

 

Then if you had taken a PC instead of the PS4, you most likely would have missed the deal anyway. Either way, it's gone. There's Founders and Non-Founders, not PC players, PC Founders and PS4 players. Deal with it.

Edited April 8, 2014 by sedu13

[RoboDoge]

People dont understand concept behind Founders program. Nor do they even try to understand it.

 

 

They want something because of reasons, and logic is not gonna work on them.

 

 

Dear ComMods, lock this thread as there is no point in going on.

 

 

Words of Rebecca:

 

 

"I think it's time to wrap this up, it was civil and quite engaging for a while but we've reached a point where discussion isn't moving forward.

 

No matter what the stance, the team has no plans to return the original Founders Program."

Edited April 8, 2014 by RoboDoge

[Rakosta_Kai]

People dont understand concept behind Founders program. Nor do they even try to understand it.

 

 

They want something because of reasons, and logic is not gonna work on them.

 

 

It's not that they don't understand.

They don't care.

 

Seeing Excal Prime in the Codex vexes them.

I can dig that... Completionists like to complete stuff.

 

I find it funny that all of the exclusivity talk heated up just after the Codex was released.

 

Personally, I don't even think it's so much about Excal prime as it is about the star next to the name asserting that have acquired it.

[LoGicMoTion]

People dont understand concept behind Founders program. Nor do they even try to understand it.

 

 

They want something because of reasons, and logic is not gonna work on them.

 

 

Dear ComMods, lock this thread as there is no point in going on.

 

 

Words of Rebecca:

 

 

"I think it's time to wrap this up, it was civil and quite engaging for a while but we've reached a point where discussion isn't moving forward.

 

No matter what the stance, the team has no plans to return the original Founders Program."

THERE'S HOPE!

[RoboDoge]

It's not that they don't understand.

They don't care.

 

Seeing Excal Prime in the Codex vexes them.

I can dig that... Completionists like to complete stuff.

 

I find it funny that all of the exclusivity talk heated up just after the Codex was released.

 

Personally, I don't even think it's so much about Excal prime as it is about the star next to the name asserting that have acquired it.

Give the Excal, Lato and Skana Prime and they will ask for Founder Forums mark next. Because they need to have it or game is ruined.

[RoboDoge]

THERE'S HOPE!

Original Founders means, Excal, Lato and Skana. And badges.

 

 

You want plat from Founders or what? Because most people cry about items. Stop being delusional. :)

[LoGicMoTion]

Original Founders means, Excal, Lato and Skana. And badges.

 

 

You want plat from Founders or what? Because most people cry about items. Stop being delusional. :)

lol im sorry i'll be serious for a second here though.

 

I do believe in a couple years that DE will decide to release excalibur prime to the public,

I might not have any logical reasoning behind it.

But... I got this feeling in my gut i'd be willing to bet anything on that.

[PoorCensored]

Except you can't trade any item that you can buy in the store.

You can't buy and trade void keys, cores, or mods? You can't buy and trade Primes (Access)?

I don't like trading, so I don't pay much attention to what can be traded, bbut I know somethings have overlap.

[ToeSama]

So, the logical, legal thing is "God no", but your gag-o-matic, ultra-illegal thing is tots tops? Wow.

 

The only sense in which it is "gag-o-matic" is that your E-Peen feels threatened that someone else will also be able to play with your super special (and in the case of the Lato and Skana prime, ultra low tier) items all of a sudden. To say nothing that the legal ramifications (if any) of it are irrelevant at best, and the whining of a little baby who's been told to share their toys at worst.

 

Totting on about "Exclusives" is imaginary prick waving at its finest, and the only people that care are the ones waving their imaginary pricks. It's time to grow up kids...

[sedu13]

The only sense in which it is "gag-o-matic" is that your E-Peen feels threatened that someone else will also be able to play with your super special (and in the case of the Lato and Skana prime, ultra low tier) items all of a sudden. To say nothing that the legal ramifications (if any) of it are irrelevant at best, and the whining of a little baby who's been told to share their toys at worst.

 

Totting on about "Exclusives" is imaginary prick waving at its finest, and the only people that care are the ones waving their imaginary pricks. It's time to grow up kids...

I'd say that to ask for an item that isn't being sold anymore after being told that it won't make a return is more infantile.

 

And saying "It's time to grow up kids" makes you sound like a teen wanting to be a grown up, Just sayin'.

[Arkuno]

There's plenty of things I'd love to have and I'm a Founder. I'd love to have a Snipetron or Snipetron Vandal. Or some of the other Vandal stuff that I missed or a Strun Wraith. But guess what? I'm not getting it. I'll agree with some others in that your idea is interesting and well though out, but like someone earlier said it would be breach of contract.

Something similar happened with League of Legends where there was a special skin for the champion Annie. Said skin was only available via buying this special bundle for YEARS, and when Annie got a visual update Riot Games wanted to put this special Annie skin up for anyone to buy for one week. Not permanently, just one week. There was so much fury from veterans and new players alike that Riot backed off because people were declaring fraud as the skin was labeled exclusive to the bundle.

If DE gave access to Founder's gear(which as others said isn't even that good) there'd be fraud issues. Plus it's not like Founder's gear is the only thing you can't get anymore. Did you miss out on the Vandal gear? Oh well. Did you miss out on one or more of the Wraith weapons? Too bad. Did you miss out on the Cicero Crisis or Tethra's Doom event mods? Unless you feel like shelling out a LOT of plat for them, you're gonna have to live with it. And another example, there's the Primed Chamber mod. There's only 100 in existence(assuming some haven't been sold in-game for credits lol) and only the top 100 players from a single event got them. You can't even trade them anymore because some people were trading them for THOUSANDS of plat. Should we be asking for DE to give us any of this simply because we missed out? Nope, because we didn't earn them the way everyone else did.

Except Goth Annie is still available though, but I get what you mean it's like the King Rammus skin for beta players.

But still, a game where you mostly just collect weapons, exclusive stuff kills it.

Edited April 8, 2014 by Arkuno

[Seasonsofclarity]

That was on pc, they should have added it to ps4 when it was released, even for few months would have been nice.

DE had absolutely no need to add it to the PS4...because the game was founded already.

 

PS4 users had a choice.  If they're *@##$ing now, they chose poorly.

 

Deal with it.

[Emeere]

There is no good reason to rerelease the Exclusive Founders gear, the only argument that has been made is that people who don't have it feel like they should have access to it.

DE, the company who designs, owns and operates this game, disagree.

What else is there to say?

/thread

[Tiqalicious]

Stop bringing up this topic when you've been told time and time and time again that founders items are not coming back.