DPV111 Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 I can understand and don't mind making the helmets cosmetic-only. It both makes it easier to wait for them to show up in Alerts and makes me enjoy the game more by wearing the helmet I like looking at the most rather than the one that has the best stats (if those aren't the same thing). It does mean, however, that people who have one of a frame's two helmets with stats but the other without will never or at least rarely use the one without stats. It also seems slightly unfair and ill advised to boot to remove from players who are currently playing the game something they may well view as an incentive to play. What I would suggest is turning these helmet stats into "Helmet Mods". They would come with their current helmet like Sentinel Weapons come with the Sentinel but are interchangeable. The current helmet mods would be restricted to being swapped between the helmets of the specific Warframe but DE could also develop new Helmet Mods (to replace or add to the current ones) that could be slotted to any helmet, including the Frame's Default Helmet. They could come attached to specific helmets (including the Default one) and/or available via Alerts. The Helmet Mods could be utilized to re-purpose some of the incredibly utile but rarely prioritized mods in the current Warframe Mod deck: Intruder, Handspring, Thief's Wit, etc. If that is not feasible it would be great to have all the stat helmets go on alert for 24 hours each, one a day leading up to the phase out. Or allow accounts created before the phase out to still get helmets with stats... YEAH RIGHT! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genoscythe Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Suggestion has been made a million times already, and I can only say its a good one. There is the helmet-mod possibility, If DE want to limit us more they could also just give us an on/off switch for stats on helmets. Both of this would possibly satisfy many more people that just taking it all away, as some helmet stats are rather important for some playstyles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyroki Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Now that's what I call an old school suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsoe Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 some ppl suggested an aura slot for helmet that could deal with that issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarash2110 Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Sounds like a great idea, i'd rather have more health or energy rather then a beautiful helmet when im being shot at Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcane_Intelligence Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 I just use them for looks so I don´t care... P.S: Slap me on the face if I said something horrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey1779 Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 As much as I like the idea, the thought of adding 28 (i think there are 28 stat helmets) more mods to drop tables would not be pretty. I think if DE plans to do this change, they need to bite the bullet and just remove the stats from ALL helmets and issue a refund to those people that paid the 75 platinum for the stat helmets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AscendantWyvern Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 What I would suggest is turning these helmet stats into "Helmet Mods". That...right there is where I stopped reading and automatically +1'd. I know what you want, it's what I want, it's what many want. And it's what DE should do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttariel Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Yep all for the helmet slot idea DEs idea right now is terrible if you ask me. Not only will most people that have the helmets keep the broken stats, player that are unlucky or simply new will not have a chance anymore to get them having a clear downside. Give the option to put every stat to every frame or remove them for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPV111 Posted April 8, 2014 Author Share Posted April 8, 2014 (edited) some helmet stats are rather important for some playstyles. i'd rather have more health or energy rather then a beautiful helmet when im being shot at See the 2 interconnected problems are the current stats are "broken" due to how arbitrarily you can build with the Mod system (you really should only be able to slot one mod per frame/weapon that affects a specific stat, Nightmare should be less powerful but more useful and Corrupted should be more powerful but also detrimental compared to the Regular mods) and that the stats on helmets both encourage and discourage use of certain helmets, builds, and play styles. But by adding special Mod Slots to helmets, DE could approach the problem with much more flexibility than they currently are. For instance, if they don't care that much about the stats, they could just let the mods be slotted across all frames. If that is too broken, they could let current owners of the helmets have mods of their helmet stats that work only on the helmets of the frame they are currently equipable to and those helmets would have different mods for other players. Or turn them into mods but modify/nerf them. Or leave the current owned stat helmets with their stats and no mod slot/no way to get the new mod replacing the old stats without re-crafting with the supplied BP or crafting a new one (yay choices!) Now that's what I call an old school suggestion. Heh, well I haven't been here very long. I just use them for looks so I don´t care... P.S: Slap me on the face if I said something horrible. No nothing horrible. But wouldn't you like to use them for looks without arbitrary stat increases/decreases? Just use your favorite helmet and the mod that helps you out the most? More time on ciphers, easier to spot mods, etc? Stuff that does not hurt but also does not significantly alter your play style? Not only will most people that have the helmets keep the broken stats, player that are unlucky or simply new will not have a chance anymore to get them having a clear downside. Give the option to put every stat to every frame or remove them for everyone. As much as I like the idea, the thought of adding 28 (i think there are 28 stat helmets) more mods to drop tables would not be pretty. I think if DE plans to do this change, they need to bite the bullet and just remove the stats from ALL helmets and issue a refund to those people that paid the 75 platinum for the stat helmets. Sorry if I wasn't clear above. But Helmet Mods would not be drops. They would either come with specific helmets but be usable across all (just like Sentinel Weapons) or they would be available from Alerts separate from the Helmets. Also the Helmet Mods would not be new mods they would be re-purposed from current mods that exist but that no one uses. Remove Intruder, Thief's Wit, Enemy Radar, Handspring from the drops and make them Helmet Mods instead. They aren't broken like the current stats and they can be swapped so player play with mods they never played with before because they don't have room in their builds for utility while using their favorite helmet with any they want. Also DE is definitely grandfathering the current stat helmets. This would give them more flexibility in how they do so though. some ppl suggested an aura slot for helmet The problem is that Auras are extremely easy to prioritize and only a few would ever be used. The Helmet Mods should be pure utility and nothing but. The current stats should be grandfathered but they are broken for the developers because of nigh-invincible builds and they are broken for players because they force conformity to specific play styles for lack of viable alternatives. With Utility Helmet Mods at least if everyone plays the same they can still have a bit of pure preference variety. Edited April 8, 2014 by DPV111 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasonsofclarity Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Remove all helmet stats period, fix the underlying frame balance issues that make people act like they "require" them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPV111 Posted April 9, 2014 Author Share Posted April 9, 2014 Remove all helmet stats period, fix the underlying frame balance issues that make people act like they "require" them. Well it's not advisable to remove the stats from currently owned helmets bought with platinum. That would make a lot of people very angry. And you shouldn't just remove stats from the ones that were crafted, not bought, because nothing that influences gameplay experience should be exclusive to platinum. Really the issue is that the stats affect the choice in helmets rather than preference on appearance. Whether that is a balance issue or a design issue is debatable but I consider the Helmet Mod redesign to detach specific stats from specific helmets give back the full freedom of preference to helmet owners without taking away the stats they are accustomed to. And it also allows DE to provide content for helmets going forward using fun and interesting efdects which do not affect gameplay, but enhance enjoyment of the game. Effects which currently exist but are stagnating because no player would prioritize fun and interesting over gameplay effectiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasonsofclarity Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Cosmetic helms and stat helms are both purchasable with platinum. Doesn't really matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)atpbx Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Cosmetic helms and stat helms are both purchasable with platinum. Doesn't really matter. I have bought helmets because of the stats, not the looks. If they take the stats away I want my platinum back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPV111 Posted April 9, 2014 Author Share Posted April 9, 2014 (edited) Cosmetic helms and stat helms are both purchasable with platinum.That is because helmets should always have been cosmetic only. The stats were a terrible idea. I do not understand why they were implemented when utility effects would have suited them much better.The problem is that it is bad business to take away something someone has paid money for. Not just because the customer is experiencing a depreciation in value of their investment, but because removing incentives to play is the opposite of what any sane game developer should think to do. The system in place is very rough and broken, yes. But so was the skill tree, damage system, and melee system. None of those have been removed but rather have been improved and evolved into better, more appealing versions. This is all I am asking for with the Helmets. Helmet stats are a significant aspect of the game. They shouldn't be but since they are, removing them will leave a hole that would be better filled with something else than left to scar over. A helmet mod system with utility would add a dimension of choice and fun to the point that I guarantee if it was implemented, in a few months most people will be poking fun at the old school stubborn players clinging to 15% of this or that with a single helmet when everyone else is playing how they want and how they want to look. Not to mention significantly cleaning up the mod system by making the utility mods something players will actually ever use. Edited April 9, 2014 by DPV111 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shut Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Cosmetic helms and stat helms are both purchasable with platinum. Doesn't really matter. There are better ways of solving the problem. DE seems to keep purposely evading the most popular solution (i.e. allowing stats and helmets to simply be equippable independently of each other) and peering at the solution that they think will net them the most cash. Something tells me that the only reason they didn't go through with their "no-stats-on-any-helmet-obtained-after-this-day" plan is that the helmet-purchasing scramble that they expected to result did not happen. Their next target is a plan that causes players to have to pay double if they want to freely switch between the same helmet with and without its stats. The helmet issue has been really bothering me. The past two Community Hot Topics clearly show that they're hearing the players' demands for independent helmets and stats, but are simply ignoring the playerbase's pleas (as demonstrated by their version of what "the majority of players" want). They also did this with the majority of Update 10, and look how that went. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPV111 Posted April 9, 2014 Author Share Posted April 9, 2014 the solution that they think will net them the most cash I highly doubt that since if the stats are removed much fewer people will feel compelled to buy helmets with platinum. Especially at 75 apiece. I believe that DE simply wants helmet choice to be reliant on appearance and build choice not reliant on helmets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasonsofclarity Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 I have bought helmets because of the stats, not the looks. If they take the stats away I want my platinum back. Legally, DE doesn't even have to. Regarding the "backing away", I don't think they have. U13 was the earliest I'd heard of them doing the removal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shut Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 I highly doubt that since if the stats are removed much fewer people will feel compelled to buy helmets with platinum. Especially at 75 apiece. I believe that DE simply wants helmet choice to be reliant on appearance and build choice not reliant on helmets. What I meant is that their plan was to use "Buy these helmets while they still have their stats!" as a means of making a quick buck. My guess is that their plan failed, which is why they changed to the next-"best" thing-- having to purchase multiple helms in order to freely enable or disable one's stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuscleVictor Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 I think the best option would be to not remove the stats at all. Just introduce an extra slot on the Warframe's appearance tab for vanity; a helmet equipped on the vanity slot will have appearance only, but no stats, while a helmet equipped the normal way will have appearance and stats. When both helms are equipped, the Warframe will take the appearance of the vanity helm, but the stats of the regular helm. Of course, since DE wants to remove the stats from helms completely, it's all or nothing; having players keep stats on their helms brings up the whole exclusivity can of worms again, so it's best if they just remove the stats entirely and issue plat refunds for those who actually bought their helmets, much to my chagrin as I farmed all of mine through alerts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)GrahamMasterJ Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 I can see it now:need rhino with vanguard helm that has stats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPV111 Posted April 9, 2014 Author Share Posted April 9, 2014 (edited) What I meant is that their plan was to use "Buy these helmets while they still have their stats!" as a means of making a quick buck. My guess is that their plan failed, which is why they changed to the next-"best" thing-- having to purchase multiple helms in order to freely enable or disable one's stats. But nobody without platinum to burn (in other words, veteran traders) will drop platinum on a non-stat version of a helmet they already have. If helmets go pure cosmetic, everyone will just grab what they can from Alerts. I have over a dozen helmets all from alerts, none purchased. Edited April 9, 2014 by DPV111 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)atpbx Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Legally, DE doesn't even have to. Regarding the "backing away", I don't think they have. U13 was the earliest I'd heard of them doing the removal. It's not a question of what's legal it's a question of what I want. The same reason I defend the founders for having what they paid for protected, I expect the same courtesy from DE in return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasonsofclarity Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 It's not a question of what's legal it's a question of what I want. The same reason I defend the founders for having what they paid for protected, I expect the same courtesy from DE in return. Completely different. They paid for the items directly with money. You bought platinum with money. Then you spent the platinum. You received exactly what you paid for: platinum. Everything after that is on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolake Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 conundrum of being 'beta' and pay4power at the same time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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