Ash Is Useless

[Triburos]

Ash fan rage is right!

 

I may be a Nekros player... wait not don't put me in the same category as the farmers... I AM THE SHINIGAMI NEKROS!!! The Master of death! In all its beautiful, and wonderfully delightful forms...

 

But Ash is like second best on my list. Extreme survival, and could easily outlast an army of Loki's who die all over the room because they lack the ability to keep up in the massacre... Ash on the other hand is master of the harvest... He is like the Shinigami Nekros right hand man. Like Shinigami Nekros is The Death God, and Ash is his archangel of death...

 

Loki is just some trickster playing around the room. If you want serious killers you would play as Serious killing machines like Nekros, and Ash.

If you're done with your role-playing of being the japanese equivalent to the grim reaper and whatever the hell else yer going on about, when you get right down to it, Ash needs a buff.

He's very lackluster. No way around it. The funny thing is that Loki is potentially a better Infested killer than Ash because Blade Storm is so damn slow, and Loki is capable of turning entire waves of Infested into harmless sacks of flesh with Decoy.

Ash meanwhile has to go chasing down Infested or has to rely on Blade Storm / Smoke Screen.

I may play Loki, but even I know that Ash deserves better. Him and Banshee. Ash is designed as a pure assault frame, and that fact alone makes him poor in teams by default. He has very little if anything that can contribute to team play. But his assault isn't even that good on top of that.

They need to buff Blade Storm. He would jump up the power list in an instant if that happened. His ult is literally his main hope right now. It needs to hit all enemies at once and not take 50 years to execute all enemies, and it needs to potentially have it's damage power raised.

Edited April 23, 2014 by Triburos

[SquirmyBurrito]

Ash fan rage is right!

 

I may be a Nekros player... wait not don't put me in the same category as the farmers... I AM THE SHINIGAMI NEKROS!!! The Master of death! In all its beautiful, and wonderfully delightful forms...

 

But Ash is like second best on my list. Extreme survival, and could easily outlast an army of Loki's who die all over the room because they lack the ability to keep up in the massacre... Ash on the other hand is master of the harvest... He is like the Shinigami Nekros right hand man. Like Shinigami Nekros is The Death God, and Ash is his archangel of death...

 

Loki is just some trickster playing around the room. If you want serious killers you would play as Serious killing machines like Nekros, and Ash.

 

I'm confused, how is Ash better at extreme survivals than Loki? It can't be his damage abilities... because in extreme (I assume you mean high level) survival missions his abilities fall off hard. It can't be his speed. It can't be his health (health means nothing to either Loki or Ash). Nekros I can understand, but why Ash?

Also, leave it to a Nekros fan to think of everything in terms of long survival missions...

 

As for that bit about Loki not being a serious killer:

Edited April 23, 2014 by SquirmyBurrito

[paragasu]

Well I don't think ash is useless at all...he need fixing ...sure but he is not useless :/

he is a lalala kiling machine...

annoying drone fly here and there? press shuriken...done

see a cluster of enemy firing at you at far far away? telepot and smoke bomb... then shred them to pices...

Omg out of shield?...dun worry press 4...as soone as you finish your killing spree...your shield is already fully restored

 

now...how to buff ash

 

shuriken...stun enemy

teleport...can teleport anywhere...meke it shorter than nova portal and loki switch thou or else people will  make some other smoke

ash smoke bomb..already good next

ash ulti...replace it with something else...like making ash faster(melee attack and movement speed) and have a 500 armor ignore damage bonus for his melee, remove imortality...alow him to use his other ability during his ulti

 

or

make it a kagebunshin no jutsu, where the clones and only the clones will go beserk and attack enemies just like ash current ulti..ash real body on the other hand will go invisible just like the smoke bomb when he activate this ulti...but for a shorther duration than smoke bomb

[Prinex]

Ash has all the tools he needs to be a great melee frame.

 

He can hit drones with 1, he can stun with his 2 and buff his melee damage AND proc berserker, and his 3 is a great initiation ability, his 4 hits rather hard and builds up combos, it will also let you regen your shields/

Finally he is both bulky and fast.

 

There are no bad frames, only bad players.

 

 

 

Edit, as for comparisons with Loki, Loki's skillset specializes in manipulation, which is as a whole more effective, however most people are scrubs and run loki as a slave to the 2 key, and therefore are not using his full potential. Comparing him to ash in this respect is like saying Banshee is worse than Excalibur because Radial Javelin hits harder than Soundquake.

This sums it up amazingly, before i read this i was just staring at the page like "Blargh." But this is exactly how it is summed.

[Instinction]

I can only agree by saying that Ash's skills are sub-par. Way sub-par albeit, but his stats are rather nice, so I wouldn't call him useless.

But as to his skills being mostly useless, that I can agree with.

 

EDIT: I love the "mark for death" idea with his Shurikens. My take on the idea would be that those "marked for death" would be subject to instagib from his Bladestorm. Granting him some synergy in his skills, and making his Bladestorm much more useful at high levels, while not making it op, as you have to cast Shuriken to mark enemies before using Bladestorm.

Edited April 23, 2014 by Instinction

[Darzk]

So just to get in on this discussion early...nothing in your post provides evidence for, or even really argues that, Ash is "useless."

 

Useless means just what it sounds like. The rescue target, for example, is generally "useless." 

 

You're getting hung up on the word useless. While he might not be useless as in -unable to do anything-, he is useless as in -has no particular use-.

 

He doesn't fill any niche, and anything he can do, can be done better by other frames. 

 

I'd rather have a rescue target than Ash, as that leaves room for someone to join me with a more useful frame.

[shayvidas]

first of all ash is great

he is not great like loki but he is awsome...

and he looks awsome doing all the stuff he does

[CandyDragon]

Ash has had several changes:

 

His ult now extends melee combos.

His teleport is useful due to melee changes.

his "poor cc stun" also wipes him from any existing threat table. Not many CC's offer that.

His kunai is pretty much not that great, but 3 out of 4 is pretty good considering how most frames work.

 

His durability and survival are drastically higher than nova's. I wish people would stop citing her glass cannon as a balance point. Shes great in baby tier content, later on it gets dangerous to even lean out into fire lanes with her. Where Ash can actually just pop his ult, extend the melee combo, and keep doing damage without taking any for a moment. 

Edited April 23, 2014 by Nariala

[Ardorax]

I just like to point out here, if you believe having a katana makes you a true ninja .... uhm well sorry to break the fantasy ... but katana's are a samurai his choice of weapon.

 

Granted some would use a katana ... but a shorter version is a more prefered choice (with a straighter edge) So in warframe that would be more like the skana.

 

A bit shorter than the nikana, it would ensure the blade wouldn't bump around much, the nikana with its fancy sheat and all that is a warrior class sword.

 

Just felt like pointing it out, and I do agree ash feels a tad off VS loki

[UmbraLotus]

Is this even a thing? Why is this a thing? I like my Ash, because he doesn't look like a deer with masculinity problems, and because his abilities scream ninja way more than Loki ever could. Loki is like, I don't know, Solid Snake or something, while Ash is more akin to older ninja stuff, he's traditional. You can't hate a guy because he's old school. All jokes aside, you don't really see many Ash players very often. Why? Because he's the solo player's box of magic. Loki benefits (Cough cough "Benefits"... Switch teleport trolls, I see you.) more of a team playstyle with his radial disarm, especially on Defense missions. Bladestorm? You won't get much out of it unless you're playing solo, I mean, that's where it really shines. And I mean, sure you could just solo a mission with your glass cannon Nova or your full force power of the horse Rhino, or even try soloing with Loki (Results may vary... Dat Armor tho.) But nothing is more satisfying than throwing a stun bomb down and wrecking everything in sight while they're staggered and I have around 4x damage on melee. Or just bladestorming a whole room of unalerted, unsuspecting enemies.

 

Besides, I hear so much "Lokey best frayme 4 liyfe best 4 evr all da utility k u r all bad bcuz u r ash d rhino nd nova u r all uncleen newbz",

It makes me want to be Ash.

Just to enrage people.

:3

[SlapClown]

OP is just a Loki player that does not  have the skill to play Ash so he has to QQ about 

[Sorez]

Dont treat Ash like his is Loki. Ash is to be played differently and not like Loki. He is a completely different frame. Loki is utility, Ash is offense.

 

But I do agree, Ash needs a buff.

Edited April 23, 2014 by Sorez

[nemarsde]

I think Ash and Excalibur are both soloists warframes.

 

If I'm playing a linear mission solo, they're the most enjoyable frames and both play like space ninjas.

 

I wouldn't choose either of them for a solo defence (Nyx) or a boss (Rhino).

 

But is that a bad thing? Not imo.

 

Sure, you can take Nyx or Rhino for a linear mission, but their powers aren't as fun.

[HasuShiro]

I agree with this. This is the reason why I preffer using the Loki, but still have the Ash in case of it going to be changed to a good frame, which is worth while.

[TunaMayo]

Some interesting things I have heard about buffing Ash but not changing him drastically :

 

1. Let Shuriken add to the melee combo like bladestorm

 

2. Let smokescreen be a team buff, so for the duration of the smokescreen, Ash leaves behind a smoke cloud. Any allies that run through the smoke cloud go invisible for the rest of the duration of the power.

 

3. Let Teleport have short range free-aim ontop of the long range to-target teleport.

 

4. Let Bladestorm "re-target" during the skill. So if an ally kills a marked target, Bladestorm will keep attacking enemies who enter the radius until Ash's quota is filled.

[Ritchel]

hello. ive used ash ALOT.

 

1. i wont use ash for hardcore defence unless i have a team.

 

2. i always use ash for everything,  because he's a survivor, and resurrects alot, + mobility

 

3. invisible while mellee-teleport combination is good. and totally fun

 

4. i use bladestorm if mobs are too scattered. and hiding on crates, + panic button 

 

5. bladestorm is useless if enemies have bigger hp than ur bladestorm dmg. 

 

 

 

... ive used ash alot. and one thing i want for him to be improved is...........

 

bladestorm marked enemies should run in FEAR. for added crowd control. so  even  if it takes too long and when it doesnt 1 hit an imba mob will still be useful because it has crowd control capability.....

 

. you see shuriken is a mediocre skill, since it only hits 2 mobs. if it has a 100% proc to make enemies bleed it'll be alright

 

smoke screen should be AOE since loki already can be invisible, and smoke screen last not that long, why not make it AOE to make squad invis also? makes ash iinvis not like lokis

 

thats my feedback.....at the moment i see frames abilities as boring .. why dont d.e. make abilities with more additional usefullnes... i wish all frames can be used in all situations... i hate using the frame THAT I DONT LIKE for a specific mission. dont you all?

Edited April 23, 2014 by Ritchel

[SquirmyBurrito]

smoke screen should be AOE since loki already can be invisible, and smoke screen last not that long, why not make it AOE to make squad invis also? makes ash iinvis not like lokis

 

That could cause problems in defense missions, as having your whole team removed from the threat list will only leave the defense object. Essentially an instant 'we lose' button. Should work for all other missions. It could be chained with Chaos.

This change would fail to affect its standing in comparison to Invisibility as (unless it had a duration buff) Invisibility would still last longer.

Edited April 23, 2014 by SquirmyBurrito

[KeepOnFlowing]

I have to agree. Having played as Ash, I can vouch for his uselessness. DE's heart was in the right place by creating him but it seems that the whole "Warframes" thing panned out a little more different then what they were hoping for. So much so that Ash has become useless in all regards.

Edited April 23, 2014 by BecomeLikeWater

[CrazyCatLad]

I love Ash. His Shuriken needs some love though. They should have punch through. And perhaps toss one more when maxed. Pathfinding with them used to be broken but is better since U13.

Oh and Bladestorm can be a bit of a let down in certain instances.

Edited April 23, 2014 by Lanieu

[ThePoopHunter]

Every now and then, I see people scoffing at players always using Loki's invisibility. Why? He is squishy. He needs to be invisible, preferably all the time. 

pretty much what I was thinking. lvl 50 enemies will gun down loki in the time it takes to use radial disarm. he NEEDS to be invisible all the time on those high level enemies.

On the whole ash debate, I only like him because he's freaking bad &#!. but comparing him to nova/loki has set him up for failure. he'll never beat nova in room clearing and he'll never beat loki in CC. He's just sorta average. Still good enough to be able to do fine on higher missions tho.

[VergilDT]

I just like to point out here, if you believe having a katana makes you a true ninja .... uhm well sorry to break the fantasy ... but katana's are a samurai his choice of weapon.

 

Granted some would use a katana ... but a shorter version is a more prefered choice (with a straighter edge) So in warframe that would be more like the skana.

 

A bit shorter than the nikana, it would ensure the blade wouldn't bump around much, the nikana with its fancy sheat and all that is a warrior class sword.

 

Just felt like pointing it out, and I do agree ash feels a tad off VS loki

 

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninjatō

 

This.

[Fomiru]

I'd say he's more of a Warframe for solo content.

 

Otherwise he brings nothing to a team that another frame cannot already do, and doesn't even do it as good as they do.

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

Yeah the annoying beep/denial "ability still in use" for shurikens needs to go.  The way I used to fire off 2 shurkens (well technical 4) because they didn't do enough damage, and I'd be happy with that.

 

Prior to Melee 2.0 I never really included invisibility or teleport in my builds.  I played with invisibility allot when I was noobing Ash, but later just felt that if I wanted to go invisible and enjoy a melee bonus I'd simply play Loki.

 

I did have an idea in another thread that Ash's Smokescreen and Teleport should be merged into one ability, so that if Ash targets an enemy and activates this #2 he could teleport and smokescreen near them. If there's no enemy targeted, then the original smokescreen would activate.  This would leave Ash's #3 ability slot open for something else.

 

In that other thread I also suggested an idea that was mentioned earlier in this thread, that Ash's #3 ability be turned into a teamwide invisibility.  However, I can see how it would be problematic as SquirmyBurrito described above.  However, it would help to take away Ash's bad reputation for being a "solo" only or "selfish" frame.

[CharlieTheGunner]

Ash needs some reworking, definitely. 

 

 

His first skill is useless, is like a bad version of volt's 1 skill except absolutely no crowd control like chain stuns.

 

His second skill gives him a stun on enemies upon use, the invisibility doesn't last as long as loki and you have to abuse the stun it provides. The skill itself is pretty bad because it isn't instant and the 1 sec delay is all it takes for the napalm grineer to come and shoot you with his amazing AoE fire wave(getting close to these guys is dangerous to begin with and we can't even use ninja smoke in mid air to get the drop on em, so ya)

 

 

his 3rd skill is a teleport, it's a useless skill without the stretch mod, but I feel these two slots can be reserved for something more useful, because as soon as you teleport into a group you have to chain the skill with ninja smoke otherwise you're better off just handling the group of enemies regularly, chaining these two combos together is energy inefficient in survival imo. 

 

his 4th is a complete eye candy, don't even bother taking this to serious fights lol

 

 

---------------

 

 

 

The only thing ash got going for him is his massive HP, I have 950+ hp with a 320% hp mod at rank 30, therefore making mods like rage more useful, to soak up the damage and convert it to energy for emergency ninja smoke, slap on some duration mods and you have a weird meaty alternative for loki.

 

 

In short, Ash looks cool, but leaves a lot to be desired.

 

 

 

P.S Anyone can say any frames is good, I can go in with any of the frames with my brakk and dread and absolutely not use any of their skills and still top the charts in group play survival, Ash just doesn't do a good job compare to others, he is more of a frail tank than a ninja. 

Edited April 23, 2014 by CharlieTheGunner

[(PSN)luminousvoid26]

Why do people bother posting threads that just antagonize or annoy fans of various warframes? Shouldn't we be seeing more threads about how to effectively use each frame instead of just calling all of them useless because you don't personally enjoy or know how to use them?