Glorious Battle And Victory In The Name Of Your Clan [Dark Sector Megathread]

[Kyte]

hey hey, not the entirety :P

At least we damaged their rail significantly ... that's like 160k in repairs.

160k is just 11 runs in Eclipse^TM-sponsored Solar Rails.

[OniDax]

By the way, demanding 0% tax or what you personally deem as "reasonable" is the exact opposite a lot of you dunce caps are claiming this is. Social Control (not freedom) deals with what people think is "reasonable". Just call it what it is. If most of the WF community likes 0% tax, then they do. If most of the WF community likes Eclipse and their taxes, then they do. Don't accuse people of attacking freedom, when you've obviously proven you have no clue what true freedom and capitalism is. Slandering (which is what you, Antionne have been doing spread across numerous threads) a group of people based on personal preference and arguing even after facts have been presented, (yes, from both sides) is pretty much the personification of ignorance.

 

By continuing your insults, you are part of the problem. Just like you were part of the problem yesterday. You slander by insulting anyone who doesn't agree with you and who doesn't support Eclipse. You've repeatedly done that. You accused players in support of Sov of being greedy, and I responded that many see Eclipse trying to take a rail as being greedy, and that if anyone is being greedy, it's Eclipse much more than SoV supporters. Yes, that's an accurate statement. IF both are being greedy, then it's Eclipse more so. Yes, there actions can be considered "greedy". That's debatable though. But most of yesterday was spent arguing that people wanting to keep a free tax rail free weren't greedy. You were the one slandering. You were the one insulting. And you continue to insult and flamebait here when some are actually being civil.

Edited April 29, 2014 by AntoineFlemming

[Calayne]

Wow. Two alliances, working for the  betterment of the Solar System?

 

Please.

 

Count me in. <3

 

I really do hope something like that could happen. It would be for the benefit of all.

[OniDax]

Except that's wrong because WiK was losing from the beginning.

 

Look at the graph: http://deathsnacks.com/wf/bl_history.html#5348d46207c56f9c997b24e2_1398706026

 

People just Didn't Care, because it was not Eclipse. When I pointed Malva out in this very thread, nobody even looked at it. The entire "integrity movement" is a sham.

 

What I said doesn't negate what you've just said. There wasn't as much support for WiK, and I'm talking even before the conflict started. If you look at that graph, you'll see that for a very little bit, MotherRussia was below WiK. Also, I think the other issue was 25% vs 0% seems like the more unfair fight, and again, Eclipse already having eight rails, taxing 25%, hurt their push to take two more. All that was known to many, and that played against Eclipse, where as MotherRussia didn't have that situation, and yeah, people either didn't care as much or they didn't know. And at the end of the day, they may be more willing let MotherRussia win against WiK than Eclipse against Shadows of Vengeance because of Eclipse's tax.

[Blatantfool]

 Kyte's right in calling out the 'For honor' crowd on this. Eclipse getting a few lumps for going on the offensive is funny and all but it isn't like anyone is actually trying to organize and stabilize Rails for the 'greater good'. It's really just hating on Eclipse because they're the flavor of the month.

 

 And it's funny because really it has nothing to do with the sort of Alliance Eclipse is. They're just the biggest and most easily visible target. They don't really have a particular presence that makes their objectives or goals clear like Warbros did at their best so everyone just assumes the worst in everything they do. They're a convenient villain and so the spotlight is on them.

[BolognaPogna]

bunch of garbage aimed at Bologna, but was one of the dozens of others I have argued with over the past week. Blah blah, blippity blippity him haw.

 

 

When Did I ever say anyone was being greedy? I would never say that. You seriously have issues, dude. I personally don't care who charges what tax. Here's a pro tip; since you like to do it a lot, editing your post won't make your ignorant garbage go away.

[Squig]

 Kyte's right in calling out the 'For honor' crowd on this. Eclipse getting a few lumps for going on the offensive is funny and all but it isn't like anyone is actually trying to organize and stabilize Rails for the 'greater good'. It's really just hating on Eclipse because they're the flavor of the month.

 

 And it's funny because really it has nothing to do with the sort of Alliance Eclipse is. They're just the biggest and most easily visible target. They don't really have a particular presence that makes their objectives or goals clear like Warbros did at their best so everyone just assumes the worst in everything they do. They're a convenient villain and so the spotlight is on them.

Blatant, y u gotta be telling people the truth. They can't handle the truth!

[DeltaMercenary]

 Kyte's right in calling out the 'For honor' crowd on this. Eclipse getting a few lumps for going on the offensive is funny and all but it isn't like anyone is actually trying to organize and stabilize Rails for the 'greater good'. It's really just hating on Eclipse because they're the flavor of the month.

 

 And it's funny because really it has nothing to do with the sort of Alliance Eclipse is. They're just the biggest and most easily visible target. They don't really have a particular presence that makes their objectives or goals clear like Warbros did at their best so everyone just assumes the worst in everything they do. They're a convenient villain and so the spotlight is on them.

 

If Eclipse were to collaspe and disappear tomorrow I doubt anyone would pay it more than 5 minutes of their attention before they moved onto the next big alliance that would step in to take their place.

 

Seriously. All I see is "wah wah wah, Eclipse has so many dark sectors. y wont they let us have one too"

 

Well why dont you get a rail up and hit them so they lose it?

 

We did but we lost.

 

Well then I dont see how thats Eclipse's problem. Sounds more like your problem.

 

b-but muh dark sectors.

 

I like Armistace. It means more than 24 hours ramming as many missions through before seeing the rail getting locked up for another 48 hours.

 

And Im speaking as a nonaligned player. I dont really give two * about who has what rail. So long as you dont touch my resources and the credit taxes are low.

[Blatantfool]

 I'm not the first person to point this out in this thread Squig. I wont be the last either.

 

 I'm interested in seeing either the Community or Eclipse finally wake up and make the wheels start turning. 

 

 Perhaps the Community really does have a handful of half decent Alliances who will agree to coordinate on Eclipse and burn the Empire down. I'd be interested to see that.

 

 However, it is equally interesting for me if Eclipse properly coordinates and works out an identity for itself - be it a Peaceful or Aggressive attitude. I would like to watch that Alliance turn into an Alliance each of it's members could be proud of. (I'd wish that for any Alliance or Clan.)

[OniDax]

When Did I ever say anyone was being greedy? I would never say that. You seriously have issues, dude. I personally don't care who charges what tax. Here's a pro tip; since you like to do it a lot, editing your post won't make your ignorant garbage go away.

 

Forgive me. Guess I should be more general in my references to Eclipse supporters. Eclipse supporters accused players in support of SoV of being greedy. There. That was my problem yesterday. That's what I was arguing against. Because I wasn't one of those anti-tax guys, as I've repeatedly said. But calling people dunce caps doesn't help your message or cause. Oh, and all I did with my edit was bold the word "if" to emphasize my point. Again, your insulting, and that of other Eclipse supporters yesterday, p.o'd a lot of people and it only serves to make Eclipse look worse in the eyes of many.

[-CM-Chips]

@Salishaz,

 

I do appreciate the kind words and your suggestions to Eclipse. However, there will always be those who want us out of the solar system. We own 8 nodes and people don't like that, even when we were promising 0% tax with our first rails. I do not see the community coming together on our behalf to defend rails less valuable than Sechura. What you might suggest next is for us to give up some of these nodes, but this is not -nor will it ever be- how we operate. Yet, that is not to say we don't want to make these nodes more valuable to the common player. We will do everything in our power to offer better services, as long as it does not come at the cost of our rails.

[Ezren]

Here's a rundown of how Eclipse exists.

 

The first Dark Sector conflicts they were involved in included the promise of "no tax".

 

This is now "ha ha we fooled you highest tax".

 

Due to the high tax on a large number of nodes, all collected with the false promise of no tax, they have the funds to offer higher battle pays. They also employ bait-and-switch battle pay, offering a large amount for a very limited number of people (but it still shows up for a time, causing some people to join without being awarded the pay promised)

 

Of course, other "scumbag" clans and alliances do the same. For example, promising to give away Forma or Reactors as a reward to a random person.. You can't. But people unfamiliar with the way the Dark Sectors work fall for it, supporting under false pretense.

 

The real problem with the conflicts is entirely in the ability to set the message, and fabricate some lie that can't be enforced. If it was just straight numbers, this is the tax to be, this is the battle pay, it would be at least more rewarding for people who aren't going to lie their way through.

[Squig]

 I'm not the first person to point this out in this thread Squig. I wont be the last either.

 

 I'm interested in seeing either the Community or Eclipse finally wake up and make the wheels start turning. 

 

 Perhaps the Community really does have a handful of half decent Alliances who will agree to coordinate on Eclipse and burn the Empire down. I'd be interested to see that.

 

 However, it is equally interesting for me if Eclipse properly coordinates and works out an identity for itself - be it a Peaceful or Aggressive attitude. I would like to watch that Alliance turn into an Alliance each of it's members could be proud of. (I'd wish that for any Alliance or Clan.)

   I'm well aware that you aren't the first(Not that more people pointing it out is bad of course). I just felt it was a good chance to use that one. It always amuses me thinking about "You can't handle the truth.". Anyways I don't see any alliance between alliances with the purpose of fighting against Eclipse to last long. People as a whole have a hard time putting aside their egos and identity for the sake of the whole. The fact any large Alliance is able to exist in a semi stable existence is shocking.

 

  Would be nice if there was any depths to the integrity but as Kyte points out there really isn't.

 

EDIT:

 

Here's a rundown of how Eclipse exists.

 

The first Dark Sector conflicts they were involved in included the promise of "no tax".

 

This is now "ha ha we fooled you highest tax".

 

Due to the high tax on a large number of nodes, all collected with the false promise of no tax, they have the funds to offer higher battle pays. They also employ bait-and-switch battle pay, offering a large amount for a very limited number of people (but it still shows up for a time, causing some people to join without being awarded the pay promised)

 

Of course, other "scumbag" clans and alliances do the same. For example, promising to give away Forma or Reactors as a reward to a random person.. You can't. But people unfamiliar with the way the Dark Sectors work fall for it, supporting under false pretense.

 

The real problem with the conflicts is entirely in the ability to set the message, and fabricate some lie that can't be enforced. If it was just straight numbers, this is the tax to be, this is the battle pay, it would be at least more rewarding for people who aren't going to lie their way through.

 

There was -never- any promise of free tax node forever. The fact you people keep parroting this non truth does not turn it into fact. As for the bait and switch of battle pay we consistently endevour to make sure people get paid. If you have a beef with the system there be mad at DE. Not Eclipse.

Edited April 30, 2014 by Squig

[Ezren]

 

Absolutely. On some other thread I talked about how the tax rate should be no less than 30%. I laid out the maths stated that if anyone is trying to use dark sectors for farming credits, they're missing the point of the dark sectors in the first place.

 

Are you in no way connected to reality?

[Blatantfool]

 THE MEGATHREAD GROWS

[birdei]

I have to say that the hatred over Eclipse is so bad that they would rather have a resource tax than credit tax. Take a look at Babii, Ceres. Eclipse lost the fight and now taxes went up to 13% and look a resource tax. Correct me if I am wrong, I read that its rounded up so if you do find an orokin cell there, it gets taken away by the alliance. Credits you get to potentially earned back via battle pay, resources you can't.

wow sometimes blind hatred just amazes me.

[OniDax]

I have to say that the hatred over Eclipse is so bad that they would rather have a resource tax than credit tax. Take a look at Babii, Ceres. Eclipse lost the fight and now taxes went up to 13% and look a resource tax. Correct me if I am wrong, I read that its rounded up so if you do find an orokin cell there, it gets taken away by the alliance. Credits you get to potentially earned back via battle pay, resources you can't. wow sometimes blind hatred just amazes me.

 

That most certainly does suck. I didn't personally support TW Alliance. I supported SoV, who didn't raise theirs.

[Kyte]

Forgive me. Guess I should be more general in my references to Eclipse supporters. Eclipse supporters accused players in support of SoV of being greedy. There. That was my problem yesterday. That's what I was arguing against. Because I wasn't one of those anti-tax guys, as I've repeatedly said. But calling people dunce caps doesn't help your message or cause. Oh, and all I did with my edit was bold the word "if" to emphasize my point. Again, your insulting, and that of other Eclipse supporters yesterday, p.o'd a lot of people and it only serves to make Eclipse look worse in the eyes of many.

Wanting to defend SoV for the sake of 0% tax is greedy. It's the greediness of wanting all the mission reward. Whether it's better or worse than Eclipse's institutional greediness of wanting the valuable nodes is up to the reader to decide.

 

Also, do you even know who's an actual Eclipse member or just a random dude from the peanut gallery?

[fishworshipper]

You guys are sad.

 

It's this simple: If you don't like a clan, alliance, or the taxes, just DON'T FARM THERE. Eclipse is never going to be able to hold all of the Dark Sectors, and even if they do regular defense and survival missions are still a thing you can farm at.

[birdei]

That most certainly does suck. I didn't personally support TW Alliance. I supported SoV, who didn't raise theirs.

ya that does suck, people just sees the word Eclipse and immediately think they are evil regardless of the situation.

[Thirsty_Pickle]

I hope my confederation doesn't generate this amount of uproar.

[Kazzamo]

 It's the greediness of wanting all the mission reward.

 

I'm sorry you find people wanting to get all the credits the mission says they should get is greedy. I mean all they are doing is all the work of running the mission after all, how dare they want the credits they work for.

[Kyte]

As for bait and switch, I guess you haven't noticed the HUGE battle pay TW alliance was handing out last night? They used a baiting tactic, of putting up 200k for 3-5 tickets just to entice people to fight for them. They did this a few times through out the battle ranging from 40-50k with less than 10 tickets each.

It'd be really really cool if deathsnacks put a graph of battle pay tickets.

 

I'm sorry you find people wanting to get all the credits the mission says they should get is greedy. I mean all they are doing is all the work of running the mission after all, how dare they want the credits they work for.

Well yeah it kind of is. Greed isn't necessarily bad. Plus, taxes were to be expected in the system DE set up. Otherwise it wouldn't be an option.

As I said, which kind of greed is better is on the eyes of the reader.

[Salishaz]

@Salishaz,

 

I do appreciate the kind words and your suggestions to Eclipse. However, there will always be those who want us out of the solar system. We own 8 nodes and people don't like that, even when we were promising 0% tax with our first rails. I do not see the community coming together on our behalf to defend rails less valuable than Sechura. What you might suggest next is for us to give up some of these nodes, but this is not -nor will it ever be- how we operate. Yet, that is not to say we don't want to make these nodes more valuable to the common player. We will do everything in our power to offer better services, as long as it does not come at the cost of our rails.

 

Greetings Tenno,

 

I think you may be right regarding the defense of rails other than Sechura.

 

No, I would never suggest or support any plan for you to simply give away rails. We never just gave them away. We fought tooth and nail for the two we lost. It is your right to do all you can to maintain what you currently possess.

 

My suggestion and offer was simply that, a suggestion and offer. I do believe your leadership will navigate this morass of rail confusion and flux to the other side of wherever this is leading. By the graces of the community, we will stand on that shore with you.

 

Honor to you, Mighty Eclipse.

 

- Salishaz, Warlord of the Shadows of Vengeance

[OniDax]

Wanting to defend SoV for the sake of 0% tax is greedy. It's the greediness of wanting all the mission reward. Whether it's better or worse than Eclipse's institutional greediness of wanting the valuable nodes is up to the reader to decide.

 

Also, do you even know who's an actual Eclipse member or just a random dude from the peanut gallery?

 

The only reason I know whether somebody is CM or not is because they keep plastering -CM- into their usernames. The way it's set up, the voice of CM is just another voice.

 

No, it's not greedy to defend the rail for the precise reason SoV is holding it - to allow people to get all of their mission reward +any other credits they collect. The whole reason there was an argument yesterday is because of this faulty idea that people wanting all of what they gain is greedy. A person earning a paycheck is now greedy because he wants all of it. A person growing some produce is now greedy because he farms it all for himself. It's now greedy to enjoy no taxes, and selfless to want to be taxed. Do you even listen to yourself? You really expect people to believe that they should want Eclipse's 25% tax? Tell me, what is the non-greedy reason to support SoV? Or is supporting SoV now greedy as well?

Edited April 30, 2014 by AntoineFlemming