Battle Pay Changes Need A Cooldown Timer To Prevent Accidental (Or Intentional) Fraud

[Babellon]

it becomes duplicitous when it happens repeatedly and in the case of this alliance, it was happening repeatedly. i don't know or care if they are still doing it, the point is they did.

my dear gods, "happens repeatedly" yes, they set up battle pay for 500 people, 500 people run,, they setup more battle pay, you're right it is repeatedly. People are "repeatedly running the rail". they have to repeatedly replenish the battle payout.  its  very simple. albeit a bit annoying granted when you get no pay for the run. 

[Squig]

it becomes duplicitous when it happens repeatedly and in the case of this alliance, it was happening repeatedly. i don't know or care if they are still doing it, the point is they did.

Okay I'm going to weigh in on this and I note I -am- a member of this alliance as full disclosure. In case you haven't figured it out yet the current system is flawed in that tickets are handed out at -completion- not at entering a mission. And due to the fact one cannot add/renew/increase battlepay until all present ones are used up it's disadvantageous to set ticket counts too high. At the same time we have to balance the issue of making sure as many people as possible actually get pay. Because it may come as a shock but people -really REALY- hate not getting paid.

[LazyTheGypsy]

the system should be like:

-accepting the 50k reward mission and starting it , you'd be automatically entitled and registered with the mission quota with a sure 50k. 

 

because the current system does:

-you will only get your reward if it havent reached the mission success quota.

if it reached the quota and youve just finished the mission you will recieve nothing even if you completed the mission which logically wrong.

I agree entirely. However that arises a problem of "what if the squad fails?" Does that 50k reward get put back in the pot, or put back into the alliance vault since the squad failed?

 

Either would work, however it would still need to be adressed.

[LobsterFiend]

no, this is entirely different.

It's the same.  Demands for credits is just way to high and so are the demands for potatoes.  It's all about speed running and timing.

[LurkenLurker]

slander my fat &#!. regardless of how many runs they were paying out on, it was not paying out for a lot of people, and then was promptly being put back up and then not paying out again, meaning the people in charge were there designing payouts to get the results they want while spending as little as possible total-wise.

Your still not understanding the battle pay the more you offer the faster it is gonna go regardless of how many runs you set it for  and for the record you have to balance a budget and the number of runs determines the budgets for that session  you manage your budget setting a different number of runs if they set it for low runs it means there being careful and playing smart its not the alliance's fault that they have 8 other rails to look over so they have to be very careful with battle pay.

[fatpig84]

This is no different than those potato alerts and people complaining about needing only one more run.

 

Invasions you mean.

Yes this is the same exact flaw.

 

The problem is the way the meta game is set, alliances will always try to outbid each other on battlepay, so even if faction A set for 15k for 7500 games and a hostile alliance goes in for 20k for 7500 games, the game will automatically roll to who has higher battlepay.

 

Barring community reasons of course.

But even then, it will not stop the issue when the node already has 7500 games done but there are still 3k guys running.

 

So pals, gotta go reaaally fast.

Edited April 30, 2014 by fatpig84

[Retrikaethan]

my dear gods, "happens repeatedly" yes, they set up battle pay for 500 people, 500 people run,, they setup more battle pay, you're right it is repeatedly. People are "repeatedly running the rail". they have to repeatedly replenish the battle payout.  its  very simple. albeit a bit annoying granted when you get no pay for the run. 

yep. they send it out and got a lot of extra free runs for the pay they were insufficiently offering. that's what they wanted, and thats what they got. probably still getting too.

[LobsterFiend]

Invasions you mean.

Yes this is the same exact flaw.

 

The problem is the way the meta game is set, alliances will always try to outbid each other on battlepay, so even if faction A set for 15k for 7500 games and a hostile alliance goes in for 20k for 7500 games, the game will automatically roll to who has higher battlepay.

 

Barring community reasons of course.

 

 

1 way is to be basically limit on how many times BP can be changed.

But this will be a sweeping change, over set too much and your entire alliance vault is basically forfeit, set too little and no one cares.

Barring community reasons of course.

Yup invasions.  I must have confused a good number of people.

[LazyTheGypsy]

yep. they send it out and got a lot of extra free runs for the pay they were insufficiently offering. that's what they wanted, and thats what they got. probably still getting too.

But they literally have no way of that not happening. Unless they set up a battlepay with enough tickets to run the opposite rail down entirely.

 

But if they were to do that, they'd be unable to competitively use battlepay against the opposing rail if the opposing rail were to set up a higher one.

Edited April 30, 2014 by LazyTheGypsy

[Retrikaethan]

Your still not understanding the battle pay the more you offer the faster it is gonna go regardless of how many runs you set it for  and for the record you have to balance a budget and the number of runs determines the budgets for that session  you manage your budget setting a different number of runs if they set it for low runs it means there being careful and playing smart its not the alliance's fault that they have 8 other rails to look over so they have to be very careful with battle pay.

and you're not understanding they set the number of runs very low so (relatively speaking) that by the time people got out hundreds more have already not gotten paid.

[Dalawantahr]

So it is exploitable/abusable? If a clan setup 100 runs/pay per person whatever, what happens to the 101st? We know that the player get zip. But does it still damage the solar rail afterward? If indeed it's still count as a damage to rails then it is abusable. Entice tenno with a handsome rewards with few runs for example, keep doing it and you get free runs.

[fatpig84]

But they literally have no way of that not happening. Unless they set up a battlepay with enough tickets to run the opposite rail down entirely.

 

But if they were to do that, they'd be unable to competitively use battlepay against the opposing rail if the opposing rail were to set up a higher one.

 

And even if they win as no one can counter bid, there will still be the issue.

7500 games complete.

But 3000 dudes are still running.

[Retrikaethan]

But they literally have no way of that not happening. Unless they set up a battlepay with enough tickets to run the opposite rail down entirely.

 

But if they were to do that, they'd be unable to competitively use battlepay against the opposing rail if the opposing rail were to set up a higher one.

hah if they had sustained battle pay they would have had my support once i found the other team to be doing that bullS#&$. cuz whats the point of running for maybe 50k when most of the time you get nothing? id rather take in whatever small number they have if for no other reason than to spite the other clan.

[Babellon]

yep. they send it out and got a lot of extra free runs for the pay they were insufficiently offering. that's what they wanted, and thats what they got. probably still getting too.

Right. because the inherent flaw in the system that effects EVERYONE was all part of their plan. I can see them now, sitting there planning it out, "ok guys heres what we're going to do, we're gonna offer 500 people 10000c to run, we're counting on 600 people to run so hey we'll get 100 free runs out of it, good plan guys"..is every other alliance/clan that has this happen also planning for it? 

 

Lets talk about the flaw in the system. Yes, it could be used for leverage, if the clan/alliance has a quantifiable way to gauge that sort of thing. How ever the flaw in the system does not denote a deliberate subterfuge on the part of any clan or alliance.. budgeting, money management, these are the things a clan/alliance are using to gauge how much and for how many people  they are setting battle pay for. No one has a way of calculating how many people beyond that amount is going to run at one time. 

[Retrikaethan]

So it is exploitable/abusable? If a clan setup 100 runs/pay per person whatever, what happens to the 101st? We know that the player get zip. But does it still damage the solar rail afterward? If indeed it's still count as a damage to rails then it is abusable. Entice tenno with a handsome rewards with few runs for example, keep doing it and you get free runs.

this is a good question, i'd assume the answer is yes, if not then i would stop giving a F***.

[fatpig84]

and you're not understanding they set the number of runs very low so (relatively speaking) that by the time people got out hundreds more have already not gotten paid.

 

Even if they did not set it low, the game is still hard capped at 7500 tickets.

Once it reach 7500, there can be another 2000 guys still running and they get zilch.

 

That is the bigger issue which has being plaguing potato invasions.

And DE has no solution for those yet.

[Ritchel]

I agree entirely. However that arises a problem of "what if the squad fails?" Does that 50k reward get put back in the pot, or put back into the alliance vault since the squad failed?

 

Either would work, however it would still need to be adressed.

 

ive given out my feedback and i hoped any staff would read that block of text i made, i just want to let them hear what i think should be done and its up to them to make solutions, the issue here isnt hard to fix, its just that we need to let the DEVS see the things that we think is really flawed

 

onced they resolve this, it will really be a big step to the credit that being sent.

 

and next to be looked up into is engineers in clan implementing security measures to further defend rails. because damn it, its your rail and you should be able to make security options n shyt.

 

these people battling about clans and not battling about the system flaw is just pathetic

Edited April 30, 2014 by Ritchel

[DoomsDayDan]

You should be notified of any battle pay changes mid-mission in case it goes from 50k to 0 when you're halfway through

[Yurilica]

The run was done within 2 minutes. "Within" meaning less, not than and not over 2 minutes with a Volt+Nova combo.

The screenshots were taken a bit further apart, but you can clearly see that the time difference between the deathsnacks screenshot and the post-run screenshot on the Conflict screen is 3 minutes.

(2 minutes mission time, 3 minutes screenshot time, just to avoid confustion)

Let's do some math with ideal scenarios that go with your claims, shall we?

 

50k * 100 /4

 

That's the ideal scenario formula because every player in a group will get 50k battle pay. That means a group of 4 people take 4 battle pays, 4*50k.

If every group had full 4 players on, that's 25 runs needed to deplete that battle pay supply. Again, that's the absolute ideal scenario. And even that would not happen within 2 minutes.

 

Maybe i would've bought that story on peek days like weekends, but on a wednesday morning(at least in this time zone)? You can sell that bull to someone else.

[LazyTheGypsy]

hah if they had sustained battle pay they would have had my support once i found the other team to be doing that bullS#&$. cuz whats the point of running for maybe 50k when most of the time you get nothing? id rather take in whatever small number they have if for no other reason than to spite the other clan.

You're missing the point.

 

The point is the Alliances that own the rails at this time have no way of making sure everyone gets a payout. If they could ensure that everyone gets their payout, I'm sure the would.

 

I have an extremely hard time believing that any clan set up a low ticket count on a high battlepay for the intent of getting free runs. It was most likely because they didn't have the credits in their vault to afford more tickets.

 

Despite what you may believe, most people don't strive to be A******s.

[Retrikaethan]

Right. because the inherent flaw in the system that effects EVERYONE was all part of their plan. I can see them now, sitting there planning it out, "ok guys heres what we're going to do, we're gonna offer 500 people 10000c to run, we're counting on 600 people to run so hey we'll get 100 free runs out of it, good plan guys"..is every other alliance/clan that has this happen also planning for it? 

 

Lets talk about the flaw in the system. Yes, it could be used for leverage, if the clan/alliance has a quantifiable way to gauge that sort of thing. How ever the flaw in the system does not denote a deliberate subterfuge on the part of any clan or alliance.. budgeting, money management, these are the things a clan/alliance are using to gauge how much and for how many people  they are setting battle pay for. No one has a way of calculating how many people beyond that amount is going to run at one time. 

yes because turning sarcasm at me makes what happened not happen. if other clans are doing it, i hate them to death too.

 

the abuse is that they set the number of runs low KNOWING that it will be depleted in a matter of minutes, which all of the players know because the pay keeps disappearing, who then all rush the hell in to try to get a piece of that tiny pie.

[Babellon]

The run was done within 2 minutes. "Within" meaning less, not than and not over 2 minutes with a Volt+Nova combo.

The screenshots were taken a bit further apart, but you can clearly see that the time difference between the deathsnacks screenshot and the post-run screenshot on the Conflict screen is 3 minutes.

Let's do some math with ideal scenarios that go with your claims, shall we?

 

50k * 100 /4

 

That's the ideal scenario formula because every player in a group will get 50k battle pay. That means a group of 4 people take 4 battle pays, 4*50k.

If every group had full 4 players on, that's 25 runs needed to deplete that battle pay supply. Again, that's the absolute ideal scenario. And even that would not happen within 2 minutes.

 

Maybe i would've bought that story on peek days like weekends, but on a wednesday morning(at least in this time zone)? You can sell that bull to someone else.

each person running it counts a 1 run. so yes, if 25 people run 1 mission, in 2 minutes that battle pay is gone.

[Aercascade]

slander my fat &#!. regardless of how many runs they were paying out on, it was not paying out for a lot of people, and then was promptly being put back up and then not paying out again, meaning the people in charge were there designing payouts to get the results they want while spending as little as possible total-wise.

What a charming gentleman you are. Nobody is forcing you to run these things.

[Zhoyzu]

NONE of what you just said is accurate. Once the battle pay has been set it must run out in order to be set  again. it cannot be withdrawn haflway through. If a clan/alliance sets a battle pay at 100c for 100 missions, it cannot be changed until 100 missions are run, you, running that 101st missions might not get the batttle pay, because the clan/alliance has not had a chance to get it reset yet. This is not evidence of a scam. 

 

They  have hashed this out for over 2 weeks now. People  keep spreading this misinformation as though it is fact even though we have the facts right in front of us. Yes DE needs to re-evaluate the system, so that it can be  more streamline, How ever battle pay running out in the middle of a mission for some does not show duplicity on the part of the clan, but merely a matter of timing. 

you forgot

 

/thread

[LobsterFiend]

The run was done within 2 minutes. "Within" meaning less, not than and not over 2 minutes with a Volt+Nova combo.

The screenshots were taken a bit further apart, but you can clearly see that the time difference between the deathsnacks screenshot and the post-run screenshot on the Conflict screen is 3 minutes.

(2 minutes mission time, 3 minutes screenshot time, just to avoid confustion)

Let's do some math with ideal scenarios that go with your claims, shall we?

 

50k * 100 /4

 

That's the ideal scenario formula because every player in a group will get 50k battle pay. That means a group of 4 people take 4 battle pays, 4*50k.

If every group had full 4 players on, that's 25 runs needed to deplete that battle pay supply. Again, that's the absolute ideal scenario. And even that would not happen within 2 minutes.

 

Maybe i would've bought that story on peek days like weekends, but on a wednesday morning(at least in this time zone)? You can sell that bull to someone else.

I've seen plenty of people do speed runs of about 1 min.  Depleting that supply within 2 mins is not only very possible, but very probable.