Removing Stat Helms Gives Older Players Yet Another Advantage

[Kartumterek]

Thankfully in a few days we won't have to bother with this anymore

[TheBlueMagician]

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Vespa_Nyx_Helmet

• Power Efficiency +15%
• Armor -5%

She has 15 armor, this is -1 armor for her. That's essentially no negative stat at all.

 

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Vanguard_Rhino_Helmet

• Movement Speed +25%
• Power Strength -5%

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Aura_Trinity_Helmet

• Power duration +25%
• Health Max -5% ^{(Applies after all other bonuses)}

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Phoenix_Ember_Helmet

• Energy Max +25%
• Shield Max -5%

 

25% is minor? No, 25% is gigantic and a huge advantage, especially on stats with no cap, and when you factor in that you can use this helmet on top of your weapons and your frame, and cannot gain these free 25% stat increases any other way besides helmets.

 

Also, if the stats are "extremely small"(they aren't, as I just showed you), why would you care if helmet stats were removed or not?

 

You showed raw statistics. Anyone with a middling intellect can point out how 1/4th of something should technically be statistically significant.

 

But when it comes to a 3 second difference in Trinity's Blessing ability (19 - 22/26 - 29), everything should be dead by the end of the un-modified time, anyway.

 

Rhino being actually able to keep up with a group and get kills before a Nova/Loki/Ash does isn't a bad thing, in my opinion. "WHAT RHINO CAN MOVE FAST AND NOT DIE AT THE SAME TIME? IF HE CAN MOVE FAST HE HAS TO DIE JUST AS FAST AS ME." That is the argument you are making, and it is laughable. Note that Rhino still does not outspeed any of the faster Warframes.

 

Energy max being relevant is a joke. Play one match with a Necros with maxed Energy Siphon, never worry about energy ever. I usually get more energy than I can consume when I Desecrate.

 

For energy efficiency, see the above point.

 

What all of your discussion fails to take into account is the entire game taking place in the meantime.

 

http://youtu.be/EL8e2ujXe8g

Edited May 4, 2014 by TheBlueMagician

[Ishki88]

Do people forget this is a team based game?  

[TheBlueMagician]

Do people forget this is a team based game?  

 

The real question is, did they ever know in the first place?

[holdenagincourt]

Every game does things over time that lock in advantages for early adopters.

 

Given that, Warframe and DE are remarkably forgiving and sensitive about these issues than many others.

[Tr1ples1xer]

Do people forget this is a team based game?  

exactly !

 

advantage over who ? grineer and co,. ?  YES !! that is the whole point.

 

We are not playing against other tennos, what is he talking about ?

Edited May 4, 2014 by Tr1ples1xer

[Kiaru]

You showed raw statistics. Anyone with a middling intellect can point out how 1/4th of something should technically be statistically significant.

 

But when it comes to a 3 second difference in Trinity's Blessing ability (19 - 22/26 - 29), everything should be dead by the end of the un-modified time, anyway.

 

Rhino being actually able to keep up with a group and get kills before a Nova/Loki/Ash does isn't a bad thing, in my opinion. "WHAT RHINO CAN MOVE FAST AND NOT DIE AT THE SAME TIME? IF HE CAN MOVE FAST HE HAS TO DIE JUST AS FAST AS ME." That is the argument you are making, and it is laughable. Note that Rhino still does not outspeed any of the faster Warframes.

 

Energy max being relevant is a joke. Play one match with a Necros with maxed Energy Siphon, never worry about energy ever. I usually get more energy than I can consume when I Desecrate.

 

For energy efficiency, see the above point.

 

What all of your discussion fails to take into account is the entire game taking place in the meantime.

 

http://youtu.be/EL8e2ujXe8g

So the stats don't matter, then why would you care if they're removed entirely?

Edited May 4, 2014 by Kiaru

[Tr1ples1xer]

So the stats don't matter, then why would you care if they're removed entirely?

No they should NOT matter to you because other tennos are friendly and in your team which means you have a better chance of completing the mission with them, what advantage are you talking about again ? please...

[ZephyrPhantom]

So the stats don't matter, then why would you care if they're removed entirely?

The real question here is why do you keep jumping back and forth between "Oh, the stats are a big deal, they need to be removed!" and "Oh, the stats aren't a big deal, so removing them isn't a problem!"

 

Honestly, I respect your opinion, but I'm not even sure what you're trying to point out.

Edited May 4, 2014 by ZephyrPhantom

[(PSN)USRevenge2]

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Vespa_Nyx_Helmet

• Power Efficiency +15%
• Armor -5%

She has 15 armor, this is -1 armor for her. That's essentially no negative stat at all.

 

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Vanguard_Rhino_Helmet

• Movement Speed +25%
• Power Strength -5%

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Aura_Trinity_Helmet

• Power duration +25%
• Health Max -5% ^{(Applies after all other bonuses)}

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Phoenix_Ember_Helmet

• Energy Max +25%
• Shield Max -5%

 

25% is minor? No, 25% is gigantic and a huge advantage, especially on stats with no cap, and when you factor in that you can use this helmet on top of your weapons and your frame, and cannot gain these free 25% stat increases any other way besides helmets.

 

Also, if the stats are "extremely small"(they aren't, as I just showed you), why would you care if helmet stats were removed or not?

 

Thank you for this. this is what I been saying.  it's true that SOME helmets suck, but some are straight up awesome.

 

Trinity stands out to me as having a useful helmet. the duration helps every skill. blessing? longer invincibility time (yes people hate this but w.e)  link lasts longer meaning more damage can be done. well of life keeps an enemy stunned longer.

 

the only thing it remotely hurts is energy vampire, but it does keep the enemy stunned longer. which can be very useful.

 

if all the helmets were crap like add stamina take shield or w.e the bad ones are this wouldn't be a big deal, but many of the current helmets are great.

[TheBlueMagician]

So the stats don't matter, then why would you care if they're removed entirely?

 

I don't, actually. You've just made no compelling argument that DE actually should. DE has said they're going to retire them so they aren't available in the future, but keep the old ones, and that is just fine to me. If they were getting rid of the stats I'd be kinda sad, but ultimately wouldn't care.

 

As the one challenging the decision, the burden to prove they were in error rests with you. And you did not really fulfill that role.

 

Also, good job ignoring the rest of my post.

Edited May 4, 2014 by TheBlueMagician

[(PSN)USRevenge2]

the only idiots are the ones thinking that the stat helms are minor stat boosts.

 

As I said the the OP,  just give helmets a single slot for a single helmet mod if you want them to be cosmetic only there you go.   with the upcoming system it's going to be BS and honestly I'm surprised people are actually defending these actions, any other game they wouldn't get away with it.

[Hyunsai]

I really feel for Rhino players who missed Vanguard Helm, one of the most OP item ever.

[PeterKha]

the only idiots are the ones thinking that the stat helms are minor stat boosts.

 

As I said the the OP,  just give helmets a single slot for a single helmet mod if you want them to be cosmetic only there you go.   with the upcoming system it's going to be BS and honestly I'm surprised people are actually defending these actions, any other game they wouldn't get away with it.

They are minor stat boosts... The numbers show how minor they actually are... 

 

Sure, it'd be a huge advantage if the numbers were a lot bigger like for example, the +25% energy helm. If that was based off your max energy rather than base energy, then you'd end up with 562.5 energy rather than 465 energy. That would be an incredible advantage over somebody else, but you're seriously sitting there and crying over someone who has 15 energy more than you or the fact that you have to slide an extra few metres to be able to kill the unit because you're about a few meters shy of killing them without the helmet.

 

It's not like the range on your skill is 10m and wearing this helmet miraculously allows you to cover the whole map and kill everything.

 

I'm defending the case because it's more of a novelty collection item to me rather than the stats they produce. Seriously, if you have played this game anywhere remotely as long as I have, you would know by now that these stats mean absolute jack. Having these helmets are more of a sense of achievement like other exclusive weapons and items in this game where you feel slightly achieved for playing the game/participating in the event.

 

To completely remove stats off every single helmet and make everyone have the same non statless helmet would honestly be a poor move and if the only argument you can come up with refers to new players having a disadvantage or how the stat boosts are so "OVERPOWERED" then show me how they're incredibly strong with numbers and facts to back you up rather than made up bullS#&$ otherwise shut up because you're going to look like an idiot.

Edited May 4, 2014 by PeterKha

[Judge_Hellboy]

besides the obvious easy way to complain...can someone who wants to remove stats completely tell us how stat helmets are overpowered or not fair?

 

Have you did a comparison of your warframe without the stats vs. a warframe with the stats? PLUS an optimized build since stats do stack?

 

Can you show us detailed calculations on why they should change?   DE should not take anybodies (even mine) suggestions into consideration if they can not provide a full thesis on the matter......

 

edit;  if you really think this is stat helmets divide the player base................  -_- You want to know what divides us?   Skill.  Knowing how to Optimize.  Time/Resources.

 

Not a helmet.

Rhino has base .9 Sprint Speed, Tied with Frost for the slowest Warframe.

Vanguard Helmet +25% MOVEMENT (Run & Sprint) Speed, Rush +30% Sprint Speed

Equals: 1.395 Movement Speed

 

Rhino Prime has base 1.0 Sprint Speed

Vanguard Helmet +25% Movement Speed, Rush +30% Sprint Speed

Equals: 1.55 Movement Speed

 

Loki has base 1.25

Rush +30% Sprint speed

Equals 1.625

 

Rhino Prime is now second fastest WF losing out by .075. Perhaps a little more or less if rounding is used.

Third if you count Volts ability. Depends on how you see things.

 

This much movement speed extremely changes the playstyle of Rhino or at least the way I (note: ME) play him.

 

Can't speak for the other WFs but I can see how a few of them can vastly change up builds. Especially helmets that can offset some negatives of corrupted mods.

[Ov3rd0se]

Why are people even complaining about helmet boosts? So what if someone is better than you? Even without it someone is still going to be better than you. Do you think removing some minute advantage that you are all of a sudden going to be better than those who had the helmets? You're not. I think removing the stats even from future helmets is stupid, this game is becoming more and more of a generic space shooter and it's not fun anymore because I can have the same experience from Gears of War or some other Third Person shooter. Seems people just like to complain to enrage other people cause they have no life.

Edited May 4, 2014 by Ov3rd0se

[Ishki88]

Rhino has base .9 Sprint Speed, Tied with Frost for the slowest Warframe.

Vanguard Helmet +25% MOVEMENT (Run & Sprint) Speed, Rush +30% Sprint Speed

Equals: 1.395 Movement Speed

 

Rhino Prime has base 1.0 Sprint Speed

Vanguard Helmet +25% Movement Speed, Rush +30% Sprint Speed

Equals: 1.55 Movement Speed

 

Loki has base 1.25

Rush +30% Sprint speed

Equals 1.625

 

Rhino Prime is now second fastest WF losing out by .075. Perhaps a little more or less if rounding is used.

Third if you count Volts ability. Depends on how you see things.

 

This much movement speed extremely changes the playstyle of Rhino or at least the way I (note: ME) play him.

 

Can't speak for the other WFs but I can see how a few of them can vastly change up builds. Especially helmets that can offset some negatives of corrupted mods.

 

 

Now how is this a negative towards a team if you decide to join a game with 3 people who do not have your helmet.

[Judge_Hellboy]

Now how is this a negative towards a team if you decide to join a game with 3 people who do not have your helmet.

Its not.

Rhino Prime is the second fast WF out there.

New players with the same WF will be at the bottom never having the build option I have.

I want others to have the same opportunity for fun that I have.

 

There is a disparity and I'm torn on how I'd want this handled.

The current way is for current helm owners is to keep their stats they earned / bought and no options for future players.

You could remove stats completely, compensate those who used plat and move on with everyone on equal footing.

But a third option seems most ideal, a WF augmentation slot.

- All helmets become appearance items and current Arcane helmets turn into augment mods to equip in head slot.

- A huge range of augments can be released for all WFs and future players will get the same benefits as old.

- But then this screws with the drop system even more and at WFs current state it can't handle much more.

Edited May 4, 2014 by Judge_Hellboy

[Ishki88]

Basically if DE keeps listening to topics like this, once this game hits Final Stages...it's just going to be another cookie cutter game because people are slowly getting rid of any and everything that peaks into uniqueness and/or one of a kind..

 

I wonder if people know the helmets are still available right now in alerts.....if they are so bent out of shape...they have enough time to donate money to DE and use plat to buy the helmets.....or is it because they want to be the voice of the people and make everyone suffer?..why does this forum continue to make OG players irritated 

[Kartumterek]

Scott-"Congrats you were in beta."

/thread

 

 

all that needs to be said about it. Word of God has spoken on the matter

[Kratos]

If I got a platinum for every time I've seen a topic like this. I'd be able to buy myself a damn Prime Chamber by now.

 

Here is my outlook on this. Yes, it hurts newer players, but in the long run, us "older" players have something to show for being here a long time. Whether this be Gorgon Wraith, or a Stat Helm that gives us a tiny boost. This is how the world works. You don't walk into a job and say: "Oh, he's a higher position than me? Him and everyone else should be brought down to our level." The boss would either suspend you, or fire you right away.

 

Taking away something we've gone many weeks/months to earn would be a slap to the face of us older players.

 

The preaching *needs* to stop. Do you think this game will expand further with people crying poverty at every little thing that happens? No.

[KIREEK]

How about, All helmets with stats are replaced with helmets with no stats (no exceptions)............................and to compensate the obvious fustration, reward a legendary core for each helmet change.

 

 

Just a sugestion.

 

Edited May 4, 2014 by KIREEKPSO

[PeterKha]

Its not.

Rhino Prime is the second fast WF out there.

New players with the same WF will be at the bottom never having the build option I have.

I want others to have the same opportunity for fun that I have.

 

There is a disparity and I'm torn on how I'd want this handled.

The current way is for current helm owners is to keep their stats they earned / bought and no options for future players.

You could remove stats completely, compensate those who used plat and move on with everyone on equal footing.

But a third option seems most ideal, a WF augmentation slot.

- All helmets become appearance items and current Arcane helmets turn into augment mods to equip in head slot.

- A huge range of augments can be released for all WFs and future players will get the same benefits as old.

- But then this screws with the drop system even more and at WFs current state it can't handle much more.

If they want to build speed, they can always use Rush + Sprint Boost. The helmet isn't mandatory to have and who needs speed nowadays anyway when you can do this.

 

http://gfycat.com/PowerlessSecondhandDesertpupfish

 

Back then, I could launch myself with Zorens and reach the extraction point faster than anybody on my team as a frost. 

[Dargon22wp]

Considering how small the stat boost is (And the fact that it comes with a negative stat) I do not see a problem with the way it is being handled. 

[Arxiun]

 

 

Banshee chorus helmet ads 10% power efficiency with a loss to stamina. 

Ember phoenix has an ok helmet that ads energy made while hurting shield.

excaliber avalon adds shields small loss to health, meh but still possible to use well.

excaliber pendragon adds 15% power strength with a 5% loss to armor.

Frost aurora adds 25% armor with a small loss to health max

Frost Squall adds 15% power strength while 5% loss to shield.

Loki essence 15% power effiency -5% armor

loki  15% power range -5% health

mag coil 25% range -5% shield

Nyx Vespa 15% power effiency -5% armor

Rhino Vanguard 25% speed -5% power strength

Trinity aura 25% power duration -5% health

Vauban 1 espirit 0% energy max -10% shield

Volt storm 10% power strength -5% stamina

Volt pulse 10% power duration -5% shield max

First of all, thank you for doing what the wiki couldn't do... oh wait.

Second; I can't help but notice you're a PS4 player, meaning this won't affect you for a while

Third: This only benefits new players. I earned my Aurora and Squall helms, and I like them. I waited for the Vanguard for months after I got Rhino. The stats don't even make much of a difference. Like Vanguard: My new-found speed on the slowest frame shall give me a tactical advantage-oh hai loki, wait up. Honestly, I have never seen a difference when Using alt helmets, other then the new styles. There is no tactical advantage you couldn't accomplish much more efficiently (and noticeably) without mods that are easily found. I like the Idea of arcane helmets, and if you really thin they're bad, why not instead suggest that they stay in alerts, while the purely cosmetic are retained in the market (or also found in alerts). This isn't smart or fair, just another "its not fair because x missed their chance". No players will ever get Dex furis, or Snipetron, or (etc.). Just let it be.