People Who Found This Game Too Easy Before Update 7.7, Come Here And Gloat

[tcww]

Hey so I heard they stealth-buffed the enemies because some people were boasting about how they were too pro for the game... Come to this thread and tell people how its still too easy for your fully maxed mods.

To be honest, I agree that DE doesnt have to make any 'end-game' content because they can just keep on ramping up the difficulty to feed these internet egos. Players who can't deal with it need to cry moar..

[MJ12]

Hey so I heard they stealth-buffed the enemies because some people were boasting about how they were too pro for the game... Come to this thread and tell people how its still too easy for your fully maxed mods.

To be honest, I agree that DE doesnt have to make any 'end-game' content because they can just keep on ramping up the difficulty to feed these internet egos. Players who can't deal with it need to cry moar..

Poe's Law is fully in effect on this post. I really can't tell whether you're pro-7.7 stealth buff or anti-7.7. I'd expect sarcasm but there are people legitimately defending 'die in one second on anything past Earth' soooo...

[Astral_Waffle]

Hey so I heard they stealth-buffed the enemies because some people were boasting about how they were too pro for the game... Come to this thread and tell people how its still too easy for your fully maxed mods.

To be honest, I agree that DE doesnt have to make any 'end-game' content because they can just keep on ramping up the difficulty to feed these internet egos. Players who can't deal with it need to cry moar..

Why are you so upset that some people like to be challenged when they play games? Have you never played any single player games on a difficulty higher than the easiest? It isn't a matter of pro vs. casual (a strawman argument) it's a matter of challenge vs. complacency. I have only had the game for a week and I was already starting to become bored that there was no challenge involved when playing multiplayer (and I'm not a 'pro' like you seem to enjoy throwing around). I don't think that they went about the difficulty buff in the best way but I'm glad they are addressing the issue. Ideally, they will reach a point where the game becomes more difficult as you progress without being painful to those in early areas, but complaining because people don't like to be able to facetank enemies without punishment is ignorantly short-sighted.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Astral_Waffle

[V0LK]

They "facetanked" Venus by 30lvl frames with maxed mods. Why everyone should be punished because of some selfish "pros" feel too easy? If you feel too easy - remove mods, go to Ceres or Pluto. But they speedrun Mercury and cry how easy it is.

[Namacyst]

...but there are people legitimately defending 'die in one second on anything past Earth' soooo...

....sooo it must be your problem then when you 'die in one second on anything past Earth' because there are many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many and even some more, but atleast as many as those who cry that they 'die in one second on anything past Earth'... that don't 'die in one second on anything past Earth' and still find, not as much as it was before 7.7, that the game is still prrrrrrreeeeeetty easy in higher levels. Andyesifinditeasymyselfbecauseihavemaxedmodsonmaxedwarframesolololol.

Cheers!

Edit: And everyone who facetanks anything anywhere and then complains the game is either too easy or too hard.. burn in a fire and l2p!

Edited April 4, 2013 by Namacyst

[Astral_Waffle]

They "facetanked" Venus by 30lvl frames with maxed mods. Why everyone should be punished because of some selfish "pros" feel too easy? If you feel too easy - remove mods, go to Ceres or Pluto. But they speedrun Mercury and cry how easy it is.

They buffed health and shields immensely without changing enemy, of course the scale of damage vs. mitigation got altered. If you would read my damn post instead of creating your own imaginary arguments about what I'm saying, you'd notice that I support lower difficulty in earlier stages of the game, so you can stop trying to use that argument as though it applies to what I'm saying. I'm not a level 30 with maxed out mods. I have been playing one week and I haven't even used any catalysts. You can stop putting pros in quotation marks like it's something I refer to myself as, I clearly have not and it is making your argument seem incredibly childish. Either reply to MY words, or don't bother replying.

And telling me to remove mods? Surely you can think of a better solution than that. The entire point of this game is collecting gear and mods and continually improving your character. There is no point in playing this game if there is nothing to work toward. Shields regenerate for a reason.

[G3rman]

Just upping enemy DPS is sort of an artificial challenge though. I think they were trying to reset the balance with players having larger reserves of health and shields, but it ends up hurting the game more, in my opinion. They could have increased difficulty in new and exciting ways; hopefully this is just a stopgap measure.

[CaligoIllioneus]

They buffed health and shields immensely without changing enemy, of course the scale of damage vs. mitigation got altered. If you would read my damn post instead of creating your own imaginary arguments about what I'm saying, you'd notice that I support lower difficulty in earlier stages of the game, so you can stop trying to use that argument as though it applies to what I'm saying. I'm not a level 30 with maxed out mods. I have been playing one week and I haven't even used any catalysts. You can stop putting pros in quotation marks like it's something I refer to myself as, I clearly have not and it is making your argument seem incredibly childish. Either reply to MY words, or don't bother replying.

And telling me to remove mods? Surely you can think of a better solution than that. The entire point of this game is collecting gear and mods and continually improving your character. There is no point in playing this game if there is nothing to work toward. Shields regenerate for a reason.

This forum needs a like button :/

[Astral_Waffle]

Just upping enemy DPS is sort of an artificial challenge though. I think they were trying to reset the balance with players having larger reserves of health and shields, but it ends up hurting the game more, in my opinion. They could have increased difficulty in new and exciting ways; hopefully this is just a stopgap measure.

I think one issue that came up as a result of this is that health/shields and damage increased, but shield regeneration rate did not. Previously it was easier to get a decent amount of shield recovered mid-fight by rolling around or finding temporary cover for a couple of seconds before jumping back out into the madness, but now it takes a good amount of time to get that same fraction of shield back.

[Nokturnal]

I play every game on the hardest difficulty, but games that only ramp up the damage enemies do and increase their HP are doing it the extremely lazy way.

To create a truly challenging and fun difficulty you must create dynamic boss battles, better AI and balance abilities so there's no "I win" buttons.

[tcww]

Well, can anyone think of a reason why DE just didnt create lvl 69 zones to appease those who found the game 2ez?? You could even send those progaemers to the Andromeda Galaxy or something...

Also, I think DE really needs a solid vision on what Warframe should really be... I don't think ping-ponging about trying to appease both hardcore and casual gamers is going to lead to anything...

A big question that should be considered: Is Warframe going to stay as a PvE game? Or will it go the route of PvP? This might not seem like an important question at first glance, but it greatly affects how this game should be 'balanced'. In PvP games the goal is 'game-balance' because the commodity that they would be selling is Competition. If they focus on that, issues like 'game difficulty' really doesn't need to be addressed.

BUT, if this were to be a PvE game, emphasis should be placed on 1. a smooth and enjoyable experience for gamers at all stages; and 2. endgame content. The 7.0 update brought a mod system that actually decreased endgame playability because you could no longer keep on farming for better rare mod rolls... once you max a mod, you've finished. Compare this to WoW endgame where you grind bosses for epic gear, and the rolls on the gear are randomized... The current mod system is really more akin to the 'grind to level 60' mechanic, which can be enjoyable but isn't anything near 'endgame content'.

Basically, I want to say that DE is wrong in catering to the hardcore players by increasing the difficulty of all levels (and in a lazy way as well..). The whining of the pro players about the game being 2ez is really due to the lack of 'endgame' in Warframe, and this problem was exacerbated by the update 7.0 mod system revamp.

Solutions:

1.Make mods less grind-based and more roll-based

2.Add level 69 planets (maybe stick them full of stalkers too!)

3.Add bosses that require more than a party of 4 to beat (maybe 8-10 like a WoW raid)

4.Add PVP (you pros should be wetting yourselves over this one)

Thoughts/ideas/suggestions/criticism welcome...

[Telrakin]

I play every game on the hardest difficulty, but games that only ramp up the damage enemies do and increase their HP are doing it the extremely lazy way.

Although true, you can have the best AI in the history of gaming and it wont amount to much if they can't meaningfully hurt you.

[MJ12]

....sooo it must be your problem then when you 'die in one second on anything past Earth' because there are many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many and even some more, but atleast as many as those who cry that they 'die in one second on anything past Earth'... that don't 'die in one second on anything past Earth' and still find, not as much as it was before 7.7, that the game is still prrrrrrreeeeeetty easy in higher levels. Andyesifinditeasymyselfbecauseihavemaxedmodsonmaxedwarframesolololol.

Cheers!

Edit: And everyone who facetanks anything anywhere and then complains the game is either too easy or too hard.. burn in a fire and l2p!

I guess you play this game like a cover shooter and find it easy. Because if you don't (or you don't get lucky with spawns) you do literally evaporate in one second of fire facing lv20ish enemies. But let me ask you a question. If the game is meant to be a cover shooter... why is there no cover system? Could it be that the reason you find the game so easy is because you're not playing it as intended and exploiting a design oversight (there are currently very few enemies who punish you hiding behind a crate like a coward and shooting at them for ten minutes)? So try the game without ever taking cover for more than a second or two to get a breather.

Not so easy now, is it? Keeping in constant motion against enemies with extremely good aim and reflexes. Because this is how the game's meant to be played and if you try that on anything past maybe early Earth, you will get reamed. Because by catering to the people who have deluded themselves into thinking this game is a cover shooter (due to there being very few enemies who punish 'hiding behind a box like a coward') they have broken it for anyone who wants fast-paced melee/shooting play.

[Cakes]

They "facetanked" Venus by 30lvl frames with maxed mods. Why everyone should be punished because of some selfish "pros" feel too easy? If you feel too easy - remove mods, go to Ceres or Pluto. But they speedrun Mercury and cry how easy it is.

Actually I was facetanking Pluto with max Vitality/Redirection/Guardian and killing everything in my way with a Rank 20 Fang that had a Rank 2 Fury and a Rank 1 North Wind, thanks for keeping it accurate. People who joined in to watch thought it was pretty hilarious, tedious for how long it took for stuff to die, but funny all the same.

Thankfully now I am unable to just brute force and use subpar melee weapons to beat Pluto missions. Instead I must now zoom in my pistol (with a facetank mentality so no hiding behind cover allowed) and alternatively veer left and right a bit while walking forward towards the enemy to make the Grinner aim where I supposedly would have been, reducing the incoming damage by quite a bit to avoid getting slaughtered in a straight up facetank fest. Not the most fun, but better than just straight up rofltanking and more of an issue of Grineers predicting my path and getting juked than a "they can't kill me even if they hit me" problem.

Basically, I want to say that DE is wrong in catering to the hardcore players by increasing the difficulty of all levels (and in a lazy way as well..). The whining of the pro players about the game being 2ez is really due to the lack of 'endgame' in Warframe, and this problem was exacerbated by the update 7.0 mod system revamp.

Solutions:

1.Make mods less grind-based and more roll-based

2.Add level 69 planets (maybe stick them full of stalkers too!)

3.Add bosses that require more than a party of 4 to beat (maybe 8-10 like a WoW raid)

4.Add PVP (you pros should be wetting yourselves over this one)

Thoughts/ideas/suggestions/criticism welcome...

Its nice to be thought of as a pro, but deep down inside those who teamed up with me and I all know I'm a scrub as my dps output is negligible and all I'm good for is finding new ways to survive with base stats long enough to deal the kill damage simply from exploiting enemy weaknesses. There is something inherently wrong with the game when a player was able to facetank and Leroy their way through what are supposed to be the hardest missions in solo mode.

I would advocate heavily for a difficulty nerf for planets advertised as being under the level 20 range, especially Mercury, due to the relative inexperience of the players who generally access those missions. However, anything advertised above level 30 really should expect the player to exhibit some level of skill/experience to survive a ship/base full of enemies closing in on you, and in my ideal world the difficulty would increase exponentially as the advertised levels rose.

.:edit:.

It's come to my attention that after having 3 people watch me solo a few Pluto runs that I'm able to beat these missions while purposefully ignoring cover because stuff that shoots at me tends to miss due to my erratic mobility juking the AI's path prediction (tip: sprinting while repeatedly pressing [w][a][d] to run in circles will result in 90% of incoming Moa fire to just go around you) and never let myself get flanked/surrounded. Enemies don't really die all that fast because I don't quite have the right damage mods on usually, but they also aren't scoring enough constant hits on me that shield regeneration can't keep me going.

That said, not everyone likes tactical play or even learning how to avoid damage from specific enemies completely. So... might as well lower the skill requirement of the game down a bit and let facetank be the rule of the realm for every place but Eris and Pluto. Gotta keep someplace to encourage people to come on the forums, even if its just to complain about the difficulty.

Also, lots of games play like a cover shooter without a cover system. Halo, CounterStrike, Bad Company 2... etc. In most of them not scrambling for cover in a firefight tends to get you killed immediately, unless you're playing easymode... in which case you could melee everything while surviving everything they dish out at you.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Cakes

[Lyramion]

Level 55 Alerts on Pluto today. Level 55 moas and Raindeers. Ppl died a bunch, no storming into room full of marines. Had a great time !

[Prepoznator]

Level 55 Alerts on Pluto today. Level 55 moas and Raindeers. Ppl died a bunch, no storming into room full of marines. Had a great time !

No more speed running through mission :D time to get some fun :D

[CheeseHasLeafs]

They buffed health and shields immensely without changing enemy, of course the scale of damage vs. mitigation got altered.

Well before U7 most everyone had 400+ shields at least. I had 500+ on all my frames. And the enemies weren't changed at all from pre U7 to post U7. That is, until now.

So it's more like the damage vs mitigation got swung one way, then another, and back again.

[Prepoznator]

Was playing mobile defence on Europe,i camped the artifact in my rhino not a single hit on my hp and i only got 710 shield, in our party only 1 guy died once so if u know what you are doing and your team u ll be fine.

[MJ12]

Actually I was facetanking Pluto with max Vitality/Redirection/Guardian and killing everything in my way with a Rank 20 Fang that had a Rank 2 Fury and a Rank 1 North Wind, thanks for keeping it accurate. People who joined in to watch thought it was pretty hilarious, tedious for how long it took for stuff to die, but funny all the same.

Okay so you 'facetank' Pluto via staggering and slowing everything in front of you? And were, in fact, using absolute max survival mods? I think you've kind of proven his point.

Thankfully now I am unable to just brute force and use subpar melee weapons to beat Pluto missions. Instead I must now zoom in my pistol (with a facetank mentality so no hiding behind cover allowed) and alternatively veer left and right a bit while walking forward towards the enemy to make the Grinner aim where I supposedly would have been, reducing the incoming damage by quite a bit to avoid getting slaughtered in a straight up facetank fest. Not the most fun, but better than just straight up rofltanking and more of an issue of Grineers predicting my path and getting juked than a "they can't kill me even if they hit me" problem.

Grineer weapons are hitscan and their reaction time is zero. As in 'zero milliseconds'. Do you mean Corpus?

Its nice to be thought of as a pro, but deep down inside those who teamed up with me and I all know I'm a scrub as my dps output is negligible and all I'm good for is finding new ways to survive with base stats long enough to deal the kill damage simply from exploiting enemy weaknesses. There is something inherently wrong with the game when a player was able to facetank and Leroy their way through what are supposed to be the hardest missions in solo mode.

Are you? Because I tried 'not facetanking' in Pluto pre-7.7 and I still had challenge. Obviously I'm even scrubbier of a scrub-wait a minute I've played tons of shooters. There is something absolutely wrong when someone who plays tons of shooters is having this problem.

I would advocate heavily for a difficulty nerf for planets advertised as being under the level 20 range, especially Mercury, due to the relative inexperience of the players who generally access those missions. However, anything advertised above level 30 really should expect the player to exhibit some level of skill/experience to survive a ship/base full of enemies closing in on you, and in my ideal world the difficulty would increase exponentially as the advertised levels rose.

How about just 'scale solo difficulty back to where it was pre-7.7 so people can actually legitimately play Solo mode past Earth without being unduly frustrated'? Is that so hard?

.:edit:.

It's come to my attention that after having 3 people watch me solo a few Pluto runs that I'm able to beat these missions while purposefully ignoring cover because stuff that shoots at me tends to miss due to my erratic mobility juking the AI's path prediction (tip: sprinting while repeatedly pressing [w][a][d] to run in circles will result in 90% of incoming Moa fire to just go around you) and never let myself get flanked/surrounded. Enemies don't really die all that fast because I don't quite have the right damage mods on usually, but they also aren't scoring enough constant hits on me that shield regeneration can't keep me going.

That said, not everyone likes tactical play or even learning how to avoid damage from specific enemies completely. So... might as well lower the skill requirement of the game down a bit and let facetank be the rule of the realm for every place but Eris and Pluto. Gotta keep someplace to encourage people to come on the forums, even if its just to complain about the difficulty.

Ah yes, the sarcasm here is so thick I can cut it with a knife. "EVERYONE ELSE IS JUST AWFUL".

Also, lots of games play like a cover shooter without a cover system. Halo, CounterStrike, Bad Company 2... etc. In most of them not scrambling for cover in a firefight tends to get you killed immediately, unless you're playing easymode... in which case you could melee everything while surviving everything they dish out at you.

And notice all of them are FPSes-i.e. FPSes where implementing a cover system is very difficult due to a variety of factors. Many of them either had lean (Battlefield, Modern Warfare 1) or extremely slow enemies and projectiles (Halo) and all of them had extremely convenient obstacles just high enough that crouching made you invulnerable. Also "CounterStrike"? That was the anti-cover shooter. It was all about the bunnyhopping fastscope AWPs.

Was playing mobile defence on Europe,i camped the artifact in my rhino not a single hit on my hp and i only got 710 shield, in our party only 1 guy died once so if u know what you are doing and your team u ll be fine.

"Only" 710 shield. Also, not a single hit on your HP on a Warframe with invulnerability-on-demand. Why does this not reassure me of the difficulty actually being balanced? It's very strange.

[Prepoznator]

Well bud rhino isnt very moveable frame :D other 3 guys were common frames and they lived throu so...

[Aerensiniac]

Hey so I heard they stealth-buffed the enemies because some people were boasting about how they were too pro for the game... Come to this thread and tell people how its still too easy for your fully maxed mods.

To be honest, I agree that DE doesnt have to make any 'end-game' content because they can just keep on ramping up the difficulty to feed these internet egos. Players who can't deal with it need to cry moar..

You got it the wrong way around bro.

Keeping stuff lukewarm just to satisfy the egos of... "less skilled"... players was an issue.

I am running a non oc loki with non maxed mods and i could breeze through anything due to the passive buff changes.

Sorry mate, but if you call the fact that you never once seeked cover behind a corner "play style", then you are in the wrong game.

Demanding the game to be changed so you can stand into crossfires without even getting your shield depleted is not skill, not play, not a damn thing. If you have needs to be a bullet sponge then play global agenda or duke nukem.

Thank you.

[Cakes]

Okay so you 'facetank' Pluto via staggering and slowing everything in front of you? And were, in fact, using absolute max survival mods? I think you've kind of proven his point.

The point is no build should be able to noskill the hardest missions. Slowing down 1 or 2 enemies out of the 8 firing upon you and taking their staggers (Fang has no natural stagger) is a lot more incoming damage over time than the usual strategy of systematically killing all 8 in the shortest amount of time while actively avoiding damage. The newest buff to enemies has solved that, thankfully.

His point was people complaining about facetanking on low/mid level planets while challenging them to solo Eris/Pluto without health/shield mods, which has already been done without forced facetanking prior to the passive health/shield implementation.

And notice all of them are FPSes-i.e. FPSes where implementing a cover system is very difficult due to a variety of factors. Many of them either had lean (Battlefield, Modern Warfare 1) or extremely slow enemies and projectiles (Halo) and all of them had extremely convenient obstacles just high enough that crouching made you invulnerable. Also "CounterStrike"? That was the anti-cover shooter. It was all about the bunnyhopping fastscope AWPs.

You trying to tell me you sprint slower than the enemies you face?

Or that standing behind a wall/crouching behind a box in Warframe doesn't block incoming nonexplosives?

Or that Warframe environments are destructible?

Or that half the Warframe tilemaps aren't comprised of extremely convenient obstacles just a wallrun or sprint slide away?

Or that Corpus fire has been changed to hitscan? Grineer fire isn't even hitscan, just try sprinting zigzagged as you rush them and you'll see tracer rounds miss you. And yes, those tracer rounds aren't just for flash and pizzazz, someone running parallel to me took one to the face and was downed.

Playing a lot of shooters is great and I hope you had fun with most of them. However it just means you played a lot of shooters. It probably prepared you for the general basics that span shooter games, but it doesn't mean those prior games gave you insight on Warframe mechanics. Habits and expectations you carry over from those games may even be undesireable in Warframe.

[MJ12]

The point is no build should be able to noskill the hardest missions. Slowing down 1 or 2 enemies out of the 8 firing upon you and taking their staggers (Fang has no natural stagger) is a lot more incoming damage over time than the usual strategy of systematically killing all 8 in the shortest amount of time while actively avoiding damage. The newest buff to enemies has solved that, thankfully.

His point was people complaining about facetanking on low/mid level planets while challenging them to solo Eris/Pluto without health/shield mods, which has already been done without forced facetanking prior to the passive health/shield implementation.

Okay. Now I strongly suspect you're lying about your 'facetanking', because lv28ish Corpus moas/crewmen are throwing out 60+ dps per enemy easily, more in melee. So you'd have died in about ten seconds. Either you're not 'facetanking' and thus not 'noskilling' the game, or... you're outright lying. Really, your statements are so utterly and completely divorced from my game experience that I literally have no choice but to question your credibility here. Because there is absolutely zero conceivable way for me to imagine how I was taking literally ten times the damage you are pre-7.7.

You trying to tell me you sprint slower than the enemies you face?

Or that standing behind a wall/crouching behind a box in Warframe doesn't block incoming nonexplosives?

Or that Warframe environments are destructible?

Or that half the Warframe tilemaps aren't comprised of extremely convenient obstacles just a wallrun or sprint slide away?

Or that Corpus fire has been changed to hitscan? Grineer fire isn't even hitscan, just try sprinting zigzagged as you rush them and you'll see tracer rounds miss you. And yes, those tracer rounds aren't just for flash and pizzazz, someone running parallel to me took one to the face and was downed.

Grineer fire is hitscan, they just don't have perfect accuracy (due to having weapons with cones of fire) and tracer effects. Just like your guns are also hitscan despite occasionally firing tracers. But all of this is missing the point entirely. The point is that the game has become Yet Another Third Person Cover Shooter, because people didn't want to deal with the idea that they shouldn't be cheesing enemies by hiding behind boxes.

The problem was never 'facetanking'. The problem was people hiding behind boxes, and going "I NEVER DIE" because the enemies had no way of punishing excessive cowardice. The damage pre-7.7 enemies did was just fine as long as you didn't hide on a box against Infested/hide behind a box against Grineer/Corpus.

Playing a lot of shooters is great and I hope you had fun with most of them. However it just means you played a lot of shooters. It probably prepared you for the general basics that span shooter games, but it doesn't mean those prior games gave you insight on Warframe mechanics. Habits and expectations you carry over from those games may even be undesireable in Warframe.

They give me insight on the fact that I'm not actually bad at shooters as the singleplayer yardstick goes. So if I'm struggling to finish mid-level missions in Solo mode (a mode that exists and is not supposed to be imbalanced) there is something wrong with the difficulty.

Edited April 4, 2013 by MJ12

[Anelyn]

I guess you play this game like a cover shooter and find it easy. Because if you don't (or you don't get lucky with spawns) you do literally evaporate in one second of fire facing lv20ish enemies. But let me ask you a question. If the game is meant to be a cover shooter... why is there no cover system? Could it be that the reason you find the game so easy is because you're not playing it as intended and exploiting a design oversight (there are currently very few enemies who punish you hiding behind a crate like a coward and shooting at them for ten minutes)? So try the game without ever taking cover for more than a second or two to get a breather.

Not so easy now, is it? Keeping in constant motion against enemies with extremely good aim and reflexes. Because this is how the game's meant to be played and if you try that on anything past maybe early Earth, you will get reamed. Because by catering to the people who have deluded themselves into thinking this game is a cover shooter (due to there being very few enemies who punish 'hiding behind a box like a coward') they have broken it for anyone who wants fast-paced melee/shooting play.

Constant motion doesn't imply running like Rambo on a wall inside a room with 10 baddies and shooting them all dead before they even see you. This IS a cover shooter, any obstacle between you and enemy is cover, same as they use it too. You can do melee, by all means, and stylish kills, like slide / running on the wall and slash etc, but you need to decide when to do it, not go rambo.

Sitting behind a crate is worst thing you can do, you need to peak out, pan camera, and move. Enemies won't stay put like automated defense turrets. There are grenades in game of all types, and enemies will advance to your position (unles they are somehow blocked and can't access the area).

I challenge you to do 1 pluto mission of your choice (not defense) vs corpus, using only your weapons, no skills whatsoever. I did it, after 7.7, was INSANE fun. With combos, flashy kills / moves and what not. It took me ~40 mins to complete (but that has more to do with my playstyle, am sure you could cut that down in half at least if you didn't play the game to have fun and enjoy the challenge like I did, peaking every corner etc). I only have 500 shields and 450 hp on my Nyx (no armor mods). With a Lantron, Lato and Cronos - so no op shotgun / pistols etc.

[MJ12]

Constant motion doesn't imply running like Rambo on a wall inside a room with 10 baddies and shooting them all dead before they even see you. This IS a cover shooter, any obstacle between you and enemy is cover, same as they use it too. You can do melee, by all means, and stylish kills, like slide / running on the wall and slash etc, but you need to decide when to do it, not go rambo.

That's not a 'cover shooter'. A 'cover shooter' is a game where you die very fast out in the open so you have to spend most of your time cowering behind something. Call of Duty is a cover shooter. Unreal Tournament, for example, isn't a cover shooter because you rarely want, need, or use cover.

Sitting behind a crate is worst thing you can do, you need to peak out, pan camera, and move. Enemies won't stay put like automated defense turrets. There are grenades in game of all types, and enemies will advance to your position (unles they are somehow blocked and can't access the area).

Actually they kind of do stay fairly still if you stay still. They advance to your position eventually but that's why you cut them down while they're in the open. Also, basically every cover shooter has mechanics to flush you out of cover. The difference between them and a non-cover-shooter is that you get flushed out of cover and go to more cover, while in a non-cover shooter you get flushed out of cover and dodge incoming attacks/etc.

I challenge you to do 1 pluto mission of your choice (not defense) vs corpus, using only your weapons, no skills whatsoever. I did it, after 7.7, was INSANE fun. With combos, flashy kills / moves and what not. It took me ~40 mins to complete (but that has more to do with my playstyle, am sure you could cut that down in half at least if you didn't play the game to have fun and enjoy the challenge like I did, peaking every corner etc). I only have 500 shields and 450 hp on my Nyx (no armor mods). With a Lantron, Lato and Cronos - so no op shotgun / pistols etc.

No thanks. Like I said, if I wanted to torment myself (and I think I've made it obvious that right now I find high-level missions extraordinarily unfun) I'd hire a dominatrix.

Edited April 4, 2013 by MJ12