Replacing Exterminate

[Ghobe]

Alright as we all know, exterminate sucks in its current state and I think even DE has acknowledged that it needs replacing. So here's my ideas, feel free to comment on, support, counter, etc.

 

Right now the current exterminates involve fighting 40~190 enemies. This is incredibly low for a normal mission(I don't know about you guys but I'm typically in the 350-500 area on missions like sabotage solo). Not to mention there are very few(if any) mod/resource drops.

 

Now here's my suggestions.

 

First off, remove the current form of exterminate from the solar map(excluding mercury since...well...tutorial planet).

 

Next, change alert based exterminates to be large enough to contain over 1k enemies, increasing with player count and planet difficulty. I get that it's only a "large" platoon(16-40 in real world), but it should honestly be either several battalions(500-600) or even a whole company(3-5k). I mean we regularly annihilate hundreds of enemies per mission, why would we care about a measly 40-190 enemies? That should be flying under the radar really...

 

Finally, on the solar map, replace exterminates with a new mission type I'm calling "Complete Destruction". The mission here is to completely annihilate everything on a ship, including the ship itself. The mission will start with a series of hacks(4-8) to get information on the ship(spy) and then uploading that data to Lotus(Interception 1 round). Lotus will then have you clear out the area(small exterminate mission for a section of the ship) while she compiles the data. Afterwards she will have you perform a data download(1 round Interception again), and then hack a console to create a datamass. You will then take this datamass to the ship's navigation and reroute the ship(sabotage A). This alerts the crew and you will be forced to holdout against enemy forces for a time(Defense where you're preventing them from rehacking the console instead of defending a destructable object for 5 waves). At this point the enemy realizes they can't take the room by force so they take out life support to try and take you out(Survival). For the first 5 minutes Lotus can not send you capsules and no enemy forces will appear unless you hack consoles around the ship to re-establish life support for your area(this does not give you life support, but halts the drain for that room). Doing so, will cause enemy forces to come after you(providing life support drops) and attempting to rehack the console to turn the life support system back off(causing the room to drain you again). After 5 minutes, the enemy force will have broken the life support system and you can no longer rehack the system, but good news is that Lotus can now send you Life Support Capsules since the ship has traveled into Lotus Controlled Space. After managing to successfully hold out for an additional 10 minutes, Lotus will have repaired the Life Support System and the mission can now continue. She will then have you either Rescue a set of hostages from prisons(Rescue 2.0), Capture Key Targets(3+), or perform another spy hack and data upload(interception). After successfully completing these objectives, you are given your final objective: Destroy the Reactor(Sabotage B) and Escape(Integrity Compromised). Random additional objective of Reactor Room being guarded by a mini-boss like enemy. (this could also be an assassination mission type deal too!)

 

To sum that up...

Hack 4-8 consoles.

1 round Interception.

Clear area. (exterminate current form)

1 round Interception.

Hack console.

Sabotage.

5 wave Defense.

15 minute Survival.

Rescue 2.0 OR Capture OR Hack 4-8 consoles AND 1 round Interception.

Possible Mini-Boss/Boss Encounter.

Destroy Reactor.

Escape from ship before it explodes.

 

As all this is quite an endeavor, the rewards need to be pretty darn good, so keep that in mind. Don't forget about nightmare either.

 

Opinions? Comments? New pants?

Edited May 10, 2014 by Ghobe

[(PSN)Juicyington]

Rather than taking Exterminates out completely and replacing it with this, it'd be better just to add something like this to the game in general. Kind of like a raid, only because it would take so long. And you would receive a reward at the end of each stage. Just my 2 cents.
 

[VKhaun]

Alright as we all know, exterminate sucks in its current state and I think even DE has acknowledged that it needs replacing. So here's my ideas, feel free to comment on, support, counter, etc.

 

Sideball much?

 

No I don't think it's something we can write off as needing replacement. Killing all the things is an action gaming tradition. 

 

I disagree 100% with your approach. Currently the entire game already uses density in place of difficulty. Exterminate's value lies in being able to control when you're fighting and how much you fight, because you don't have things spawning behind you, so I think that's the one place where the game should go for fewer and more difficult enemies. More elites, more A.I. improvements, mini bosses with weak points that matter for interruptions. More frequent invasions. Etc. etc. Not another horde mode.

[PsychedelicSnake]

Sideball much?

 

No I don't think it's something we can write off as needing replacement. Killing all the things is an action gaming tradition. 

 

I disagree 100% with your approach. Currently the entire game already uses density in place of difficulty. Exterminate's value lies in being able to control when you're fighting and how much you fight, because you don't have things spawning behind you, so I think that's the one place where the game should go for fewer and more difficult enemies. More elites, more A.I. improvements, mini bosses with weak points that matter for interruptions. More frequent invasions. Etc. etc. Not another horde mode.

And more A.I. improvements.

 

And the most important part... A.I. improvements.

[(PSN)STARSIDE_DESTINY]

I think Exterminate is fine, it's supposed to be a generic "kill all the enemies" mission and it does that well. I'm fine with the enemy count too, high-level/Void/Derelict Exterminates take long enough as it is. 1,000 enemies, seriously? That would take forever! It works in Survival and Defense because there is a more important objective, and they are endless missions. But in Exterminate you would just see this giant number of enemies you have to slog through, and it wouldn't even be beneficial to people who are farming something because of the ever-present threat of host migration. Can you imagine having a mission failure after killing 900 enemies? That would suck as bad, if not worse, than a long Defense or Survival failure.

[Ghobe]

So let me get this straight. You're all cool with this mission type? That means you all run it regularly right? Or only when there's an alert that has something you want?

[VKhaun]

So let me get this straight. You're all cool with this mission type? That means you all run it regularly right? Or only when there's an alert that has something you want?

 

That's not a fair metric. There's currently no incentive to rerun anything on the star chart unless there's an alert or invasion, or you want to kill large quantities of enemies for XP and loot. That doesn't mean the entire game needs to be missions that throw hordes of enemies at you. In fact, we already have two very different mission types for that.

 

I actually do play exterminates. I like to use them to level weapons with low RoF like sniper rifles and... well mostly sniper rifles. :X But it's easy to look around and see what the popular nodes are so I don't consider my personal preference an argument. Though the fact that we need more difficult enemies worth more XP for leveling in ways other than slaughtering hordes does present a lot of arguments. Places to level slow RoF weapons. Places to level at a different pace just for variety's sake.

Edited May 10, 2014 by VKhaun

[Ghobe]

That's not a fair metric. There's currently no incentive to rerun anything on the star chart unless there's an alert or invasion, or you want to kill large quantities of enemies for XP and loot.

Most people I talk to consider exterminates to be a huge waste of time, not just in relation to defense/survival/mobile defense.Very few enemies, piss poor mod/resource rate, very rarely are there any loot rooms, etc. They're just kind of nodes you do once and never again. On the other hand, I'll redo defense, survival, interception, mobile defense, and sabotage(on earth) repeatedly for various reasons(mostly just being decent drop rates/massive exp).

[Xylia]

So let me get this straight. You're all cool with this mission type? That means you all run it regularly right? Or only when there's an alert that has something you want?

 

I do run Exterminates from time-to-time, especially when I'm looking to level weapons up (I don't need constant respawns overwhelming me), when I'm farming Nav Coords (because those only drop from lockers, and I don't need enemies constantly bothering me).

 

Sabotages.... sometimes they give you Timed Extraction at random (except for the Mining Machine ones, but there's no real reason for me to want to run Asteroid Base maps because Galleons and Corpus Maps have way more lockers/containers).

 

Also, newbies love Exterminate, because it is the only mission type where being slow doesn't get you killed. You can take time to pace yourself and retreat if you're out-gunned. With all the other game types, enemies are spawning in front of you and behind you (and sometimes within 10 feet of you!) in this constant quagmire.

 

Exterminate has its place, and there's nothing wrong with the gametype itself. Sometimes a simple "kill em all" is a nice diversion from "OMGWENEEDAIRNOW!" or "OMGTHEPIECEOFCARDBOARDISABOUTTODIE!!!" type gameplay.

 

And Interception....

 

Bleck.

 

No Thanks. I don't really like Interception (mostly because of the enemies' BS insta-cap if you miss that 1 guy hacking away at a console) TBH.

[Ghobe]

Can we take a time out and reread...or maybe I need to elaborate more.

 

I said to leave the current exterminate on mercury and change the alert versions to be much larger(in area) and enemy count(I'm not saying 250 enemies in a single room!).

 

A lot of your counter points are "just having a kill everything mission is good" which is still there! I didn't say to remove it completely from the game!

 

Here's some little anecdotal things...

Alert Exterminate: 148 Enemies 517 Salvage 1 Oxium 2 Mods

Invasion Exterminate: 68 Enemies 393 Ferrite 108 Rubedo 1 Nav Coord (0 Mods!)

Invasion Exterminate: 102 Enemies 300 Ferrite 59 Rubedo 1 Detonite Ampule 2 Mods

Invasion Exterminate: 102 Enemies 135 Ferrite 138 Rubedo 1 Nav Coord 5 Mods

Invasion Defense 10 Wave: 372 Enemies 907 Ferrite 254 Rubedo 1 Neurode 2 Nav Coords 5 Detonite Ampules 7 Mods

Alert Sabotage - Beryl: 125 Enemies 825 Ferrite 171 Rubedo 4 Nav Coords 1 Detonite Ampules 4 Mods

Alert Exterminate: 74 Enemies 623 Alloy Plate 308 Circuits 2 Nav Coords 5 Detonite Ampules (0 Mods!)

 

All solo.

Edited May 10, 2014 by Ghobe

[00zau]

Can we take a time out and reread...or maybe I need to elaborate more.

 

I said to leave the current exterminate on mercury and change the alert versions to be much larger(in area) and enemy count(I'm not saying 250 enemies in a single room!).

 

A lot of your counter points are "just having a kill everything mission is good" which is still there! I didn't say to remove it completely from the game!

 

Here's some little anecdotal things...

Alert Exterminate: 148 Enemies 517 Salvage 1 Oxium 2 Mods

Invasion Exterminate: 68 Enemies 393 Ferrite 108 Rubedo 1 Nav Coord (0 Mods!)

Invasion Exterminate: 102 Enemies 300 Ferrite 59 Rubedo 1 Detonite Ampule 2 Mods

Invasion Exterminate: 102 Enemies 135 Ferrite 138 Rubedo 1 Nav Coord 5 Mods

Invasion Defense 10 Wave: 372 Enemies 907 Ferrite 254 Rubedo 1 Neurode 2 Nav Coords 5 Detonite Ampules 7 Mods

Alert Sabotage - Beryl: 125 Enemies 825 Ferrite 171 Rubedo 4 Nav Coords 1 Detonite Ampules 4 Mods

Alert Exterminate: 74 Enemies 623 Alloy Plate 308 Circuits 2 Nav Coords 5 Detonite Ampules (0 Mods!)

 

All solo.

Invasion exterminates are long enough as it is, since you have to run 5 in a row. I don't want to have to kill 10000 enemies for 3 feldron, then to it again 12 hours later when another one shows up. Removing all the ones from the normal map besides terminus doesn't help the fact that you're still removing them. I like to run exterminates because I like the directionality. If I'm running a capture or sabotage and want to go slow and have some fun, the enemies spawning behind me get me turned around and makes the missions very long. I like being able to run quick solo exterms with whatever I want, taking it at my own pace, regardless of all else. I can take an underleveled gun onto ceres and slowly grind through if I want to.

 

Bottom line, removing exterminate for yet another horde mode doesn't increase diversity.

[Ghobe]

It really surprises me at how many of you are claiming to level weapons in these missions. Especially when you consider they're a joke for exp in their current state. You get what? 10k? Maybe? For whatever weapon you primarily use. As opposed to even being dead weight in the back of a mobile defense(not endless!) and walk away with 10-20k+ for all weapons. But maybe you just want to solo, which every single other mission type is a better option. Not only are there more enemies in literally every other mission type, but they're done much faster and offer much better rewards(fairly certain I've never gotten a 0 mod run in any other mission type).

 

Invasion exterminates are long enough as it is, since you have to run 5 in a row. I don't want to have to kill 10000 enemies for 3 feldron, then to it again 12 hours later when another one shows up.

yea...if only I brought that up...oh wait...

As all this is quite an endeavor, the rewards need to be pretty darn good, so keep that in mind. Don't forget about nightmare either.

If you thought that was only toward the new mission mode, nope. It could be as low as a single run of 500-1k as opposed to 5 runs of ~100.

[UncommonUnicorn]

So let me get this straight. You're all cool with this mission type? That means you all run it regularly right? Or only when there's an alert that has something you want?

Regularly, yes.

Lotus even agreed with me for a while, changing 3 sabotage missions in a row to exterminate.

I rarely play survival or endless defence, btw.

And Interception is utter rubbish to solo.

[Sindrall]

I do not think that Exterminate should be removed, and i also do not think that the way you are responding to the input is very.. well.. polite lol.. for one that welcomed it in the end of his initial post.. however that is very unimportant. I think exterminate should stay, end of that discussion, i do however like the game mode that has been suggested. It adds more depth in a way to missions, which is sorely needed, and it creates a game mode that cant just be speed run through by people you randomly group up with. it requires people staying together and coordinating in a way. That period of time when you have no LS at all would be a good means of freaking people out because you cant just extract. you have to see the mission through to the end. Yes it could be long with lots of enemies, but i think it could be fun and a nice change.

[Sindrall]

Look at it this way, it would be a game mode that would last longer than 2 minutes, and have more depth than the missions that do last longer than 2 mins (survival, defense) other than just standing in one area or running back and forth through hordes of enemies to keep LS up.

[Sindrall]

So just throw away the idea of getting rid of exterminate, but think of it as a new game mode or "raid" a one person put it. Raid like events are sorely needed, because as it is now, its all just farm farm farm. A raid that would guarantee you something good, which is the case in raids in any other game, would in my opinion be a VERY nice change of pace. 

[RealPandemonium]

Right now the current exterminates involve fighting 40~190 enemies. This is incredibly low for a normal mission(I don't know about you guys but I'm typically in the 350-500 area on missions like sabotage solo).

It seems you may be a little biased toward killing excessive numbers of enemies. 

[XRAY0128]

So let me get this straight. You're all cool with this mission type? That means you all run it regularly right? Or only when there's an alert that has something you want?

Exterminate is one of my favourite gamemodes actually. Since no enemies randomly popping in out of nowhere...

 

Also, 300+ enemies is kind of ridiculous, 'specially for low level players.

[Mokkania]

Exterminate is one of my favourite gamemodes actually. Since no enemies randomly popping in out of nowhere...

 

Also, 300+ enemies is kind of ridiculous, 'specially for low level players.

I like exterminate for the same reason but it's not really my favorite, I especially liked doing exterminate a long time ago when I was doing my firsts nightmare mission underleveled.

 

I wouldn't mind if you removed a bit or half of them but I do think exterminate are alright it's just the simplest alternative for missions type,  also while it's the case for the majority, not everyone are aiming to kill large number of ennemies, you want a lot? I don't.

 

Now about your mission idea I feel that it's the sort of big mission that we could get mainly if we ever get lore+game progression but right now not really, the overall concept can get a bit refined but it's not bad.

[XRAY0128]

I guess if the other linear missions didn't have respawning enemies, I wouldn't play exterminate so often though.

[Terrence_Knight]

I strongly disagree about removing exterminates, frankly your mission sounds obnoxiously long. Only thing I would add to exterminates would be allowing the players to choose enemy density via difficulty sliders, hell I feel this game should have difficulty sliders in general so we can decide how hard or easy we want our missions.

[Warriorrogue]

What you are suggesting is in no way whatsoever something that belong permamently on the starmap. It would be a brilliant event, but it should not be on the starmap 24/7

 

Exterminate is there if you want a simple mission where you go through, shooting everything. If there was smarter AI, it'd be all it needed.

[Ghobe]

So primary complaints against it...

 

"I like to level my unranked weapons in them"

"Enemies don't respawn behind you in exterminates like in other missions"

 

dot dot dot

 

So you level your unranked weapons in Pluto/Ceres/Void/Derelict solo?

 

I don't even see how enemy spawn patterns has any weight in this discussion. That should be something addressed in the other mission types not a point for keeping this mode unchanged.

 

I'm sorry, but I just can't accept these as real arguments against this change. I mean some of you have a problem with the number I picked which I can understand, but arbitrary number was arbitrary.

 

What if...

Mercury: 60-120

Venus: 150-250

Earth: 350-500

Jupiter/Mars/Saturn: 450-650

Sedna/Europa/Phobos/Uranus/Early Eris/T1 Void: 600-750

Late Eris/Neptune/Early Ceres/Early Pluto/T2 Void: 700-850

Late Ceres/Late Pluto/T3 Void/Derelict: 800-1k

 

Sound better to you people complaining about the unit count?

 

As to people complaining that AI should be made tougher instead of increasing the unit count...yea...this is a simple thing that can be done in less than an hour, as opposed to complex AI that can take upwards of a couple days just to program for a single room. Think of it more like a placeholder that is worthwhile if you will.

[RealPandemonium]

So primary complaints against it...

 

"I like to level my unranked weapons in them"

"Enemies don't respawn behind you in exterminates like in other missions"

 

dot dot dot

 

So you level your unranked weapons in Pluto/Ceres/Void/Derelict solo?

Some people don't like leeching ODD and actually enjoy core gameplay so they have fun in solar map missions leveling their equipment.

[Ghobe]

Some people don't like leeching ODD and actually enjoy core gameplay so they have fun in solar map missions leveling their equipment.

Where did that come from? You can't tell me you're leveling unranked weapons past anything level 20, not in solo. Yet there are still exterminates higher than this level range.