Please Remove General +Dmg Mods And Nerf Elemental Damage Mods

[Kiaru]

NO WAY!

This would make the game damn boring.Its fun to test Mods around and see whats best.

Can you guys let anything on Warframe like it is?I ask myself why you guys play the game when you want to change damn everything.Then stop playing and find a game thats better for you or fits you more.

 

Unbelievable.Guys in quite every game is a progress.How longer you play how better gear you have.Whats the problem with that?Thats the point of playing this game and i think alot people like how they get there stuff more and more powerful and test around which build is best for their playstyle.

There are no builds. General dmg, multishot, as many elemental dmg mods as you can fit, punch through. Crit and crit damage if applicable, ta-da, nearly every single weapon!

 

What exactly are you testing? There is no testing, because these mods exist. My point is to add more builds. Your response doesn't make any sense at all.

 

 

What testing is there?

Nearly every weapon follows an extreme cookie cutter build. Serration, Split Chamber, 2 or 3 Elementals, then whatever increases DPS the most from what's left.

Secondaries are even easier since they have more required mods in the form of Lethal Torrent + Barrel replacing Split Chamber.

 

Exactly, thank you :D So confused with that guys post.

Edited May 17, 2014 by Kiaru

[Seele]

They could be compensated with Legendary Cores and be refunded the total amount of Credits they used to rank it up.

Legendary Cores are compensation enough.

 

Anyone who's managed to get their damage mods maxed has no issue gathering credits, especially now that Dark Sectors are a thing.

[alphex2357]

Why is it every now and then I see "Nerf this" thread and see the same OP every time?

>Looks at user content

 

oh hey your right..

[K0bra]

@ OP

My comment make any sense?Dude you play the game since 30 days? and you are to lazy to achieve things like serration on 10."Then lets change it because im to lazy".ALOT of the people here played ALOT for that R10 mods.Its easy a Legendary Core cant compensate all that efford.The other thing for what use a legendary core?Wait most of R10 mods then gone.

AND there are enough variations you can test around.

Edited May 17, 2014 by K0bra

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

They could be compensated with Legendary Cores and be refunded the total amount of Credits they used to rank it up.

Yeah but if they remove all worthwhile rank 10 mods what good are those legendary cores?

Legendary cores were made for people who dumped a large amount of fusion cores to rank up a rank 10 mod that the devs "changed their mind" on.

Legendary cores for removing damage mods isn't a solution.

People working for their damage is. XD

[Motakshi]

Why is it every now and then I see "Nerf this" thread and see the same OP every time?

The OP is irrelevant, the points they being up are more important.

Damage output needs to be cut down somehow, and looking at these flat, mandatory damage increasers is the best way to kill two birds with one stone and open up the doors for a more flexible and real Modification system.

Warframe is a slowly growing game. DE can't be forced into staying with old systems simply because players have invested into them. This is a beta afterall, and by proxy I and everyone else am beta ~testers~. Calling other players too lazy is a sad copout and shows little understanding of the underlying problems they're talking about. I have nearly two maxed Serrations and a maxed Hornet Strike and I wouldn't even blink if DE were to take them out, compensation or not.

Edited May 17, 2014 by Motakshi

[Seraiya.Gier]

On another note, keep in mind.Where there is an option to create a build, there will always be a cookie cutter norm. Even if you remove the current mandatory mods, another set of mods become mandatory to increase the effectiveness. It will always be an endless cycle of You need this to be good.

[Kiaru]

The OP is irrelevant, the points they being up are more important.

Damage output needs to be cut down somehow, and looking at these flat, mandatory damage increasers is the best way to kill two birds with one stone and open up the doors for a more flexible and real Modification system.

Dunno what they're talking about anyways, my last 4 current threads I've made have been 2 bug report threads and a thread about keeping hydroid easily farmable, as well as this one. Not a single nerf thread, and this is a "Fix" thread.

 

Literally not a single nerf thread in my entire thread start history besides this one, but it's about revamping a system :)

 

Damage output is indeed far too high, at least for what they seem to be trying to balance around(Level 30). Level30 enemies are easily 1 shottable by any potato'd weapon with only rank5 of general damage mods.

Edited May 17, 2014 by Kiaru

[ZNoodle]

Yeah, I don't see how giving out fusion cores to people so they essentially lose nothing, and in return making the game more complex, fun, interesting, and BETTER is "bad".

 

You seem to be stuck in the mindset of "Removing and nerfing dmg related mods will make the game diverse".... Well let me tell you something, from all my time in MMOs there is no such thing as a fix that will create true diversity when it comes to endgame content. 

 

Ok so lets say they remove the DMG mods and weapons scale up with your rank on it.  No damage mods to increase the damage and elemental combos being nerfed will make no real difference since we'll just hit a cap on the max output of the weapon's damage. What happens then? Well guess what, we'll just be stuck in another cookie cutter layout but will it be based on the damage mods? Nope obviously itll grow into a Fire Rate/Reload cookie cutter build. If we cant have the dps we desire straight out from the get go then we'll enforce higher dps by just making the guns faster and faster. Bullet Hoses will make up our new DPS meaning we will be back to square one and people whining about Fire Rate mods.

 

"But Noodle that'll make mods that are rarely used be viable for once"

 

As it was said before a game with stats will always end up with MANDATORY mods in the end because what really matters for the most part is damage. All that would come from this suggestion is a temporary bliss for you till you realize that now there are new mods that Void/Derelict parties will expect you to run to even consider survival but no I can't be right can I? Let me put this in the perspective of games on a grander scale: MMOs. Lets say Game X decided to go "Well guys we have heard that x stat build on x class is too much so we're gonna nerf these certain stats to better the playing field be it PvP or PvE". Sure the community that plays that class will be in an outrage for a bit, like some of our Trinity community members at the moment, it will ultimately lead to a replacement of the current cookie cutter build with a new one to make the class usable again. So what happens to diversity? It never appeared! You just replaced the current cookie cutter build!

 

Remember in this game NUMBERS are king, meaning no matter what we'll find a way to turn the numbers into our favor, less dmg? More Fire Rate. Lower Fire Rate? More Ammo. Less Ammo? Goes back to more Damage. In the world of Numbers in video games there will never be an area that doesnt require a mandatory item(s).

Edited May 17, 2014 by ZNoodle

[ArchPhaeton]

I disagree with OP.

 

This is because as he wrote it, the main complaint is about damage mods taking a lot of mod space and makes you potato/forma a gun several times to get the most out of it... Sounds more like someone is lazy and wants most guns doing max dmg for little effort.

 

I don't have a problem with the current system, you always have 1-2 slots to slap in a mod that covers the weapon specific drawback and can choose to take out some dmg mod to increase versatility. The time it takes (which isn't even that much) to level up, and the effort to max mods, makes you feel like you're achieving something, and as many have said it is now completely bypass-able via trading.

 

The system may not be perfect but I don't think this is the answer. There's still a lot of changes coming in the future, let's see how the game develops into a better system.

[K0bra]

HMMM lets think about why so much people play Warframe,buy plat,support Devs?

Because they like the game like it is and enjoy it and dont want a complete diffrent game.

Edited May 17, 2014 by K0bra

[(PSN)USRevenge2]

you realize multishot mods are mandatory as well right?

 

one thing they should do though is buff physical damage mods.  it's almost always better to put  extra 15% fire than to put 15% more slash. or w.e 

[Kiaru]

you realize multishot mods are mandatory as well right?

 

one thing they should do though is buff physical damage mods.  it's almost always better to put  extra 15% fire than to put 15% more slash. or w.e 

Yeah slash/puncture/impact mods are really meh :(

[Moderius]

Yeah, I don't see how giving out fusion cores to people so they essentially lose nothing, and in return making the game more complex, fun, interesting, and BETTER is "bad".

 

Well your idea doesn't do those things, so it's not really relevant.

 

It's been explained repeatedly, by several people. You just pretend those points don't exist and roll along, claiming you're right.

[(PSN)Pengu_Imperialus]

You seem to be stuck in the mindset of "Removing and nerfing dmg related mods will make the game diverse".... Well let me tell you something, from all my time in MMOs there is no such thing as a fix that will create true diversity when it comes to endgame content. 

 

Ok so lets say they remove the DMG mods and weapons scale up with your rank on it.  No damage mods to increase the damage and elemental combos being nerfed will make no real difference since we'll just hit a cap on the max output of the weapon's damage. What happens then? Well guess what, we'll just be stuck in another cookie cutter layout but will it be based on the damage mods? Nope obviously itll grow into a Fire Rate/Reload cookie cutter build. If we cant have the dps we desire straight out from the get go then we'll enforce higher dps by just making the guns faster and faster. Bullet Hoses will make up our new DPS meaning we will be back to square one and people whining about Fire Rate mods.

 

"But Noodle that'll make mods that are rarely used be viable for once"

 

As it was said before a game with stats will always end up with MANDATORY mods in the end because what really matters for the most part is damage. All that would come from this suggestion is a temporary bliss for you till you realize that now there are new mods that Void/Derelict parties will expect you to run to even consider survival but no I can't be right can I? Let me put this in the perspective of games on a grander scale: MMOs. Lets say Game X decided to go "Well guys we have heard that x stat build on x class is too much so we're gonna nerf these certain stats to better the playing field be it PvP or PvE". Sure the community that plays that class will be in an outrage for a bit, like some our Trinity community at the moment but the only thing that change will do is just replace the current cookie cutter build with a new one to make the class usable again. So what happens to diversity? It never appeared! You just replaced the current cookie cutter build!

 

Remember in this game NUMBERS are king, meaning no matter what we'll find a way to turn the numbers into our favor, less dmg? More Fire Rate. Lower Fire Rate? More Ammo. Less Ammo? Goes back to more Damage. In the world of Numbers of video games there will never be an area that doesnt require a mandatory item(s).

I think mods need to be nerfed, but it's just the current damage threshold is way to high for non endless content.

[Motakshi]

Remember in this game NUMBERS are king, meaning no matter what we'll find a way to turn the numbers into our favor, less dmg? More Fire Rate. Lower Fire Rate? More Ammo. Less Ammo? Goes back to more Damage. In the world of Numbers of video games there will never be an area that doesnt require a mandatory item(s).

Simply chopping out Damage mods would create this problem, yes. Since fire rate seems to be what everyone brings up, if ammo was rebalance to give guns more balanced ammo (Grakata vs Ogris for example) fire rate would carry a drawback in that you still burn through ammo and are forced to constantly reload. You'd trade longevity for burst damage, which seems fair enough IMO.

I think the OP's real intention with all of this is to create diversity in some form or fashion. With 2-3 mod slots cleared out of a lot of builds (their damage somewhat retained via Rank Ups), DE would have freedom to implement actual mods without them being neglected and buried under the cutrent mound of optimal DPS-increasing mods.

Edited May 17, 2014 by Motakshi

[Sasquatchias]

you realize multishot mods are mandatory as well right?

 

one thing they should do though is buff physical damage mods.  it's almost always better to put  extra 15% fire than to put 15% more slash. or w.e 

 

The issue with buffing the physical damage mods is that all it does is increase our already excessive fire-power. 

 

Edit: Removed the rest due to embarrassment and the fact that I was arguing about something completely different. This is why you don't post arguments while half-asleep. 

Edited May 17, 2014 by Sasquatch180

[Moderius]

The OP is irrelevant, the points they being up are more important.

Damage output needs to be cut down somehow, and looking at these flat, mandatory damage increasers is the best way to kill two birds with one stone and open up the doors for a more flexible and real Modification system.

Warframe is a slowly growing game. DE can't be forced into staying with old systems simply because players have invested into them. This is a beta afterall, and by proxy I and everyone else am beta ~testers~. Calling other players too lazy is a sad copout and shows little understanding of the underlying problems they're talking about. I have nearly two maxed Serrations and a maxed Hornet Strike and I wouldn't even blink if DE were to take them out, compensation or not.

 

Your post makes a lot of assumptions, starting with "damage output needs to be cut down", and ending with the claim that you have an understanding of the game others don't.

 

It's been laid out very clearly how this is not the case. It's your choice to ignore that, but I'll just refer you back to it. This argument will not go in pointless circles every time somebody regurgitates an already-refuted point.

[ZNoodle]

Simply chopping out Damage mods would create this problem, yes. Since fire rate seems to be what everyone brings up, if ammo was rebalance to give guns more balanced ammo (Grakata vs Ogris for example) fire rate would carry a drawback in that you still burn through ammo and are forced to constantly reload. You'd trade longevity for burst damage, which seems fair enough IMO.

 

Either way itll just create that loop even with ammo changes, people will always want to go longer and then you will have people like OP who will complain about the new cookie cutter build and if they get their way will just enforce one of the 3 items listed, it sadly is the loop that never ends.

[Tali]

Or...  You know...  Because in Warframe the essence of modding is built on ranking things up...  how about we keep the damage mods, and introduce utility slots on our weapons?

 

That way everyone is happy.  People can use those mods that they normally have to forego to favor damage.

 

Yeah of course it's boring and tedious to a newbie to collect 1000 cores or "earn that right of passage" to max out a serration, etc.  But it's not impossible and most of us here have done it the old fashioned way.

 

It's even easier now more than ever with trading, etc.  People just bypass that whole grind now.  How?  collect 20 Orokin Derelict Mods from vault mods and sell them for 10p each and buy a serration for 200p.  Geez.  I wish I could have done it that easily last year.

 

Also, everyone can cry OP all they want, but how bout we consider this?  I've actually stopped building and forma'ing my weapons for max DPS.  Why?  it's easy to just fire off another round!!!  I don't have to one shot everything...  In fact, I feel the developers have started releasing strong weapons, so people would stop needing to to build for max DPS.  On the Angstrum, I'm probably going to stick a reload mod on it (which is something I haven't done in months) just because it's plenty strong against most content.

 

No one is forcing anyone to max out weapons.  It's this whole max dps e-peen (which leaves most people empty after they've achieved it anyways) that's causing these feels.  lol.

 

I had a 2 forma'd Braton (regular) with only damage mods and no elementals doing perfectly fine against level 30s in the void yesterday.  There's really no need to grind out a 6 forma braton anymore, especially when my guns stop working I can just use melee 2.0.  Did it matter that I wasn't one shotting the enemies like with my stronger guns?  Nope.  Did I have fun?  Hell yeah.

i agree with you so much on that

[Data-Zero]

How about no?

Im seriously pissed about all those whines.

Gun too powerful?

You got mods.

SET THE POWER LEVEL TILL IT FEELS RIGHT FOR YOU!

I like to do occasional 100 wave defence and i like to do that in the future.

[Motakshi]

Your post makes a lot of assumptions, starting with "damage output needs to be cut down", and ending with the claim that you have an understanding of the game others don't.

It's been laid out very clearly how this is not the case. It's your choice to ignore that, but I'll just refer you back to it. This argument will not go in pointless circles every time somebody regurgitates an already-refuted point.

I don't think assuming that damage needs to be cut down is without basis though. "Properly" modded guns (I.e those modded to simply output the most damage) will still completely obliterate higher level things with 40~K DPS. I never claimed I understood the game while others didn't (If anything I try to make it a point not to attack others in a discussion) simply that I wouldn't be bothered by these being removed (assuming that's what you're referring to?). I was responding to K0bra saying that those who wanted them removed were just too lazy to get them theirselves. Edited May 17, 2014 by Motakshi

[K0bra]

Yeah when all guns are too powerful for you guys why you dont go there in the game where they arent???????

I dont get it!This places are in the game!

Edited May 17, 2014 by K0bra

[Tengu-musume]

no.

 

 

 

edit: what about the people who grinded and grinded over and over just to max serration and heavy caliber that would be like saying well sry your mods are now worthless cause weps now scale with level my bad

It's either pleasing those people and letting the balance and difficulty of Warframe be a S#&$ joke

or man up and take away what shouldn't have been given to begin with- ingredients for OP gear.

[Sloan441]

The devs have already addressed this.

 

It's not going to happen. They seem perfectly content with the present system. They might loosen up with droprates--which they have done--involving base damage mods.