Feral Kubrow Feedback

[Carl_Bar]

Couldn't find a thread on these guys. Just decided to go back to earth for some rudebo and ran into them for the first time.

 

And to be blunt their utterly, hilariously, stupidly overpowered.

 

Lets look at their health. My Lex can currently headshot kill everything on earths first exterminate bar heavy gunners in one head shot, one critical body-shot, or two normal body shots. Heavy gunners take about twice that, (based on the ones Vor spawns in, didn't encounter any the run and upgraded my Lex since i last ran earth). Kubrow on the other hand are absorbing 4 non-crit headshots. Yet due to their Den mechanics they're nearly as common as Lancers and Troopers.

 

Damage wise they're even worse. Whilst their charges are well telegraphed the way they come in groups makes avoiding them virtually impossible as they'll start wind-ups at different times so if you dodge the first you will get hit by the second. Add in the knockback so you can't continue dodging to avoid the third and you can pretty much kiss any attempt to effectively avoid them good night. The worst part. 350+ damage per charge. 4 is close to a one shot.

 

And the really insane part. They turn up on EARTH. A planet new players get as their third planet in. Back when i first ran this my lex was putting out no more than 2/3 it's current damage, (double headshots or triple body shots for the Lancers for reference), and my effective health would have made 3 charges a guaranteed one shot. it's utterly insane that a newish player who still has middling gear has to face something this insanely damaging and tough so early on.

 

This isn't helped by the fact that prior to this there where really no non-boss enemies with avoid or die attacks, (not that you can avoid a packs worth of attacks as i mentioned). In fact previously Earth was a solid lead into the concept by providing a build-up to that mentality with the avoid or get badly hurt Hellion rockets.

 

Honestly these need a major balance pass. If they're going to be this common they shouldn't be any more dangerous than a Lancer is.

[CY13ERPUNK]

another perfect example of how ingame content is stupid hard for newbies but stupid easy for vets =[

[Carl_Bar]

another perfect example of how ingame content is stupid hard for newbies but stupid easy for vets =[

 

It's not even that, (though this is a running issue from Venus onward), they're just vastly tougher and more damaging than anything else on the level by a huge margin. They're quite clearly out of whack with the missions level range. Actually i didn't check to see what level they where, maybe they're not obeying the mission level caps? I know Vor spawns as a 17 now for me whilst this mission is supposed to be a 6-7 but it feels like packs of them have nearly as much health as he does.

[sixmille]

OP have you read the advanced mobility tutorial in game? Because cy13erpunk is right, and i'm not even an old vet, I just more or less know how to dodge and when to shot at things.

 

Just FYI they're strong because you can destroy dens. Not all enemies have to be dull and quietly waiting to be killed in one hit.

Edited May 22, 2014 by sixmille

[notionphil]

i haven't experimented with them much (besides slaughtering them). Is it true they won't attack you unless you attack/invade their space?

 

If so...this isn't really a problem.

[Feallike]

Feral Kubrows need to be in places other then earth... Hopefully they get weaker on earth and come in at later planets very strong. (Greneer Kubrows i hope are late level and are very very powerful)

[MayPeX]

Like  what notionphil said, if the Kubrows are too hard don't pester them. Let the Grineer provoke them and you just simply ignore them. It's a win win.

[notionphil]

Like  what notionphil said, if the Kubrows are too hard don't pester them. Let the Grineer provoke them and you just simply ignore them. It's a win win.

 

Let me clarify a bit.

 

If they don't attack you unless you aggro - it's not a 'problem' and is a good mechanic (non-aggro higher level enemies) to add to the game. However, there should be other (or the same for now) non-aggro higher level enemies on higher levels too.

 

The fact the DE keeps adding challenge elements to only Earth is not a good thing.

[xShadowsaur]

I never had issues with these Kubrow. They're quite easy to go through ,even with weak weapons and a weak frame (despite the fact I have strong weapons). The key is don't stand still. I know it sounds silly and possibly even insulting but these guys can't get you if you don't stand still. Their AI is not good enough (yet) to our maneuver you and if you're close enough they won't really attack you. Okay, one might bite your ankle, but if you run you can out maneuver then. Hek, if you stand on a rock they can't get you at all. Standing on higher ground makes them insanely vulnerable to anything you have to throw at them. I have never once been taken down by these guys because they attack things with less health than me, and even when they're trying to wolfpack me they never seem to hit. I have introduced newbie friends to them and just told them to never stand still and they wen through missions without being touched by the Kubrow. And hey, they kill some of the enemies with guns which were causing actual issues.

I like the Kubrow, I've been waiting since I saw them in the Codex art gallery for them. I think they add variety and life to the game, the jungle tileset desperately needed at least one animal in it (what is a jungle without some fauna anyway?), and they're all in all pretty harmless if you don't stand perfectly still waiting for them to hit you.

If you don't want to fight them, don't. Just run away from them, they're not that fast. They're easy to distract.

And if you want to fight them, at least they're not like the Desert Skates that have tons of armor for no particular reason.

I can't wait till our domestic Kubrow come in!

[xShadowsaur]

i haven't experimented with them much (besides slaughtering them). Is it true they won't attack you unless you attack/invade their space?

 

If so...this isn't really a problem.

No, they will attack you. But it doesn't matter. Just don't stand still. Or stand on high ground. If you stand on their dens they're powerless to stop you. But I find it rather difficult to get their attention. Currently they appear to be ... deaf. Not sure how to put it but unless you're in their line of sight, they won't react to you.

[xShadowsaur]

another perfect example of how ingame content is stupid hard for newbies but stupid easy for vets =[

Just don't stand still! they can't hit you even if you're just walking. I have had newbies walk through kubrow infested areas without a scratch on their shield because they just walked. It's when you stand still and aim for them do the issues come in.

[Carl_Bar]

To address a few posters.

 

1. Yes they wll aggro o you and from much better distances than greneeir

 

2. No walking won't deal with them. Their only attack that i've seen is a massively powerful, (300 odd damage), slash dash style attack preceded by a wind up. Walking won't get you out of the way once they start moving, you have to do a quick sprint or dodge roll, at the last second, but then the second will track right into you unless they started their windups at exactly the same time. Sounds like where experiencing different AI here, if they tried to run up and bite me Infested charger style i'd tear them to shreds with my Orthos and move on. They'd still be far too tough to actually be balanced given how common they are, but they would be at least somewhat balanced damage wise since a newbie can get a decently upgraded melee by earth if they grind at it allowing them to be taken out before they do major damage.

 

3. I haven't seen their pathfinding have any issues with elevation, they run up and down stairs and ledges just fine, or at least no worse than other melee mobs, (one may get stuck on occasion).

Edited May 22, 2014 by Carl_Bar

[Carl_Bar]

Ok just re-ran the mission t check what other posters said, see if it was AI. And yep it was. This time virtually no slash dash like attacks. Turned into pansies vs my orthos though given they took two swings from it and my Orthos is well modded that's still insane toughness for something newbies will face. Also can't say i'm a fan of fighting only these all mission long since they utterly decimate the greneeir before i get there.

 

Was also able to confirm they had a listed in mission level equal to the greneeir so not a scaling issue.

[Prophet_Last]

IMO, if you are not a new player your "they are so easy" is completely worthless, you have more experience and much MUCH better gear than a new player. As someone who is a relatively new player (2 weeks) I can say that they are a major pain in the &#!. When I got to Earth I had the most basic of gear and mods (Mk-1 Bratton, Dex Furis, Cronus, Excal) And, being a new player, the standard enemies were hard enough for me. At that level I had no hope of killing one, let alone the swarms that can quickly create problems for new players while trying to dodge and fight the Grineer. It doesn't help that once they aggro you, they don't stop EVER.  I didn't even find out That you could destroy their Dens until long after I got through earth. 

This game has a nasty habit of Punishing new player at every turn. Be it enemies like the Kubrow, Other player just speed running through levels, no explanation for lots of key features, Or just a general lack of gear scaling at lower levels. I hope that they really do make the game better for newer players in update 14, because I just about turned the game off at the start from all the bulls**t frustrating crap (I'm looking at you Vor)

[sixmille]

IMO, if you are not a new player your "they are so easy" is completely worthless, you have more experience and much MUCH better gear than a new player. As someone who is a relatively new player (2 weeks) I can say that they are a major pain in the @$$. When I got to Earth I had the most basic of gear and mods (Mk-1 Bratton, Dex Furis, Cronus, Excal) And, being a new player, the standard enemies were hard enough for me. At that level I had no hope of killing one, let alone the swarms that can quickly create problems for new players while trying to dodge and fight the Grineer. It doesn't help that once they aggro you, they don't stop EVER.  I didn't even find out That you could destroy their Dens until long after I got through earth. 

This game has a nasty habit of Punishing new player at every turn. Be it enemies like the Kubrow, Other player just speed running through levels, no explanation for lots of key features, Or just a general lack of gear scaling at lower levels. I hope that they really do make the game better for newer players in update 14, because I just about turned the game off at the start from all the bulls**t frustrating crap (I'm looking at you Vor)

 

I agree that the all of the speedrunning tools like zorencopter, which allows people to rush everything without you, is an issue for new players. However by the time you reach earth you should be more prepared and earth is a small difficulty increase. Note that difficulty scaling has nothing to do with speeedrunning and you should make your own separate thread about this. Now back to kubrows, like i said earlier, if you read the advanced mobility tutorial you will NEVER be in trouble when you're surrounded by kubrows.

 

Also you should have a lvl 15ish frame and you have enough room to slot a 4 ability. I see a lot of rank 0-4 players not even using their warframe's spells. There's a tutorial for this too but basically all you need to do is to equip the = polarity mods, read what they're doing and clicking on it. Any kubrow will die in one hit or won't be able to hit you anymore with the starting warframe's 4 ability... Mostly a L2R issue, it seems. The tutorials aren't decorative.

[KF5AQX]

 

Also you should have a lvl 15ish frame and you have enough room to slot a 4 ability. I see a lot of rank 0-4 players not even using their warframe's spells. There's a tutorial for this too but basically all you need to do is to equip the = polarity mods, read what they're doing and clicking on it. Any kubrow will die in one hit or won't be able to hit you anymore with the starting warframe's 4 ability... Mostly a L2R issue, it seems. The tutorials aren't decorative.

 

 

Most players don't have mods to waste ranking up warframe powers before shields, especially their four, with it's rare energy requirements. I dare you take an unranked Radial javelin, equip nothing but it, and go see how well it does versus anything above Mercury.

 

Hint: It doesn't.

[SirCris]

My issues with the feral Kubrow:

1. They kill everything on Exterminate missions before I even get there. Then they steal the spoils and take them back to their den so I almost certainly have to deal with them.

2. The fact they even show up on Exterminate missions. What's the point of sending me to exterminate these Grineer troops when these things do it for me?

3. They have too much health or armor or something that keeps them from dying from a reasonable amount of damage. Throwing my Kestrel one shots almost everything I have come across except these. Sometimes I get lucky with a critcal hit and it takes them out, other times it's 2 or 3 throws. My other options are to empty 2 clips of my primary or secondary weapon into each one of them.

4. They glitch all over the place.

 

Background info on myself:

I'm a casual player that has been playing on and off for over a year, but I only have 140 hours in the game. I play solo almost exclusively, though I've broken down once or twice and teamed up with some strangers on some defense missions that I wasn't capable of finishing myself. I play solo mostly because I am a completionist and I like to take my time and play stealthily for the most part. I tend to search every inch of the map, find every hidden area, and open everything I can find, often running through the map 2 or 3 times. OCD: maybe.