De. You Can't Ignore This Any More. (Penta, Ogris And Angstrum Feedback)

[Seele]

Great...first melee2.0 now ammo2.0... what is that going to be "safety bullets"?

but go ahead and make more crappy addons the last one leaving needs to turn off the lights.

How incredibly ignorant of you. Did you play during Melee 1.0? Are you actually berating the devs for continuing to support and improve this game?

[(PSN)GrandmaKilledU]

I am pointing out nothing is being done to fix flaws. I am rank 8 silver disciple with 320hrs on ps4. My jat kittag was ruined and with real effort and money(forma cost platinum) involved it is theft not "improvement"

so NO i am not berating the devs i am calling shenannigans...

[-Mr.Meeseeks-]

I don't quite understand the problem with this. How does this affect you in any way if I have an ogris with infinite ammo?

 

Most people tend to leave the Ogris for ODD or Dark sector defenses. Penta and Angstrum are a little bit more used outside of those mission types (Angstrum in particular due to it just coming out and people maxing it out for mastery) due to the smaller explosive radius and therefore less likely to suicide, but I don't see how them having infinite ammo affects you in the slightest. Are you hoping they just run out of ammo? Even if that were the case, they would just pop an ammo restore and go back to blowing stuff up.

 

Even if they lowered the amount of ammo for explosive weaponry, if used properly like it is in infested defence mission, blowing up 3+ infested with a single rocket / grenade will more than likely result in that person being able to replenish their ammo regardless; even if it were something as rare as sniper ammo.

 

If your point is to point out that some weapons run out of ammo very quickly (Dex furix, Grakata etc.) then don't attempt to nerf explosive weapons along with them. I can understand being frustrated since Dex furis can use all it's ammo in less than 30 seconds, but don't be upset about other weapons having nearly infinite ammo pools.

 

On top of everything, I never see anyone complaining about weapons that aren't explosive with nearly infinite ammo reserves.I don't see anyone crying about the Latron Prime. I don't see people upset about Tigris having infinite ammo. nor do I see anyone complaining about the Attica with it's inexhaustible ammo pool. I believe a lot of people simply want explosive weaponry nerfed because of "kill stealing" in a game based entirely on co-op where experience is shared.

[Crotax]

Great...first melee2.0 now ammo2.0... what is that going to be "safety bullets"?

but go ahead and make more crappy addons the last one leaving needs to turn off the lights.

 

Wow you sir need some icecream to chill off..

[Zeromanicus]

It's great just being able to have fun and not have to worry about rationing my ammo.

 

The more pressing issue are the weapons that run out of ammo so quickly, you cannot enjoy using them. You have to forma the amprex multiple times before it kills stuff without instantly running out of ammo and well, then its just dead weight.

 

The game should be about fun and ammo consumption should be a low priority for weapon balancing. 

 

A player armed with a ogris and a player armed with boltor prime are still pretty much equal. Ogris has a slower fire rate but can kill a load of enemies at once, while the boltor prime will mow down units.

[(PSN)DanteVincent]

Quite honestly, if we are to be fair here.

 

We can't simply expect every gun to have the same amount of ammo even if they are in the same category.

 

For example : Flux Rifle, Wraith Twin Vipers, Afuris, etc.

 

I'm sure many people here would love to bring their vipers to defenses. The aforementioned weapons, in order to be good and keep a decent dps need to literally burn through ammo to achieve the same potential as others do while firing 3 bullets.

 

There's no way we can say the above situations is fair or balanced. Then we have the miter.

 

Anyways, that's to say I completely agree with OP but the whole ammo system should be revised, taking into account each weapon's characteristics.

[(PSN)GrandmaKilledU]

Odd how so many players? Posting here seem to accept losing all the work they put into their weapons

[Davoodoo]

I'd note the angstrum can eat ammo very fast with the charge on it, so it probably shouldn't be limited so much.

I would find that pretty good limiting factor. If you go nuts firing 6 rockets on each and every grunt you meet you should run out pretty fast.

 

No weapon should have infinite ammo and theres plenty of those in warframe, even those that dont have it usually last about half hour of survival without running out.

 

Another problem is having 2 weapons, usually it means that you have to switch to not run out and thats somewhat tactical choice. Good tactical choice in warframe is not bringing extra weapon cause it will cut your exp gain while doing nothing to your ammo reserves.

[SpilockT_T]

I am pointing out nothing is being done to fix flaws. I am rank 8 silver disciple with 320hrs on ps4. My jat kittag was ruined and with real effort and money(forma cost platinum) involved it is theft not "improvement"

so NO i am not berating the devs i am calling shenannigans...

 

But you can get formas for free T^T

[Crotax]

Odd how so many players? Posting here seem to accept losing all the work they put into their weapons

 

We ain't ''losing'' any work, the game is being balanced and since there is PvP (even though the game is not focused on it) it is a very good thing. 

Now if you would like a game to stay the same forever and never change and innovate then you sir have chosen the wrong game.

DE has done an awesome job at being aggressive devs that listens to their community and this is something we should be thankful for.

[Seele]

-snip-

*sigh* That's not the point.

Refer to the fact that Nova and Trinity were toned down a bit - not because of whiners, but because DE, for their own reasons, decided it was for the best.

 

Balance is still relevant in co-op and PvE environments. If tomorrow they released a mastery rank 0, fully-automatic, hitscan rocket launcher that could not damage the user and did 4500 base damage, came preloaded with a catalyst and 5 polarities and costs 50 credits, would people be happy about that?

 

Clearly that's hyperbole, but the fundamental value is the same. Some people would get a sick thrill out of being that unfair. Some people don't like watching the game play itself.

 

I myself can't justify any amount of affinity earned by standing on a pillar and firing Ogris rockets at the same spot over, and over, and over, for wave after wave, hour after hour. Done it before. Never again.

I get that some people may enjoy that... somehow... but adding some form of balance is only fair. The worst it would do to you, in this scenario, is force you to climb down and scavenge for ammo pickups between waves.

 

However following the (unfounded) trail of tears from Nova's "nerf" I don't imagine DE sees fit to further "nerf" such a curiously popular play style. So maybe everything should have unlimited ammo.

[(PSN)GrandmaKilledU]

Lol...build a dojo and you will buy a forma or wait.. point is built a lot tohave a jat kittag and it was ruined. What is left in place of melee1.0 is a flawed product. I didnt do that i simply found DE is not fixing anything and instead pumping fictitious improvements for some reason.

[Deidaku]

As more awareness and discussion on this occurs it'll help us prioritize attention.  There a lot of compelling arguments that are being made around "Ammo 2.0", especially in relation to the rocket/grenade weapons ammo amounts. 

Thank you .

 

 

 

+ if you intend to add Pvp imagine infinite ammo launchers.........

[Rakosta_Kai]

What does the development time on this accomplish exactly?

 

Can't be weapon usage... If you have the weapon, you doubtless have Mutation Mods.

So a player gets to go from an infinite supply of ammunition to a near infinite supply of ammunition ? OK.

 

Unless the devs cut the number down to 10 or 20, discussions about ammo are irrelevant.

 

Sure, limited ammunition for heavy ordinance fits from a thematic standpoint... But we're mechanically augmented space ninja who rely on stealth and, as such, probably shouldn't have them in the first place.

 

It's just one more inconsistency amongst a sea of them...

 

Why does Trinity have a lobster tail but no matching claws?

Why are Frost's shields affected in icy environs when he uses ice as a weapon?... For that matter, why does a master of Ice attacks even need a coat?

Why aren't we having to deal with perma-death?

Why do we attain more inertia from rapidly swinging light melee weapons as opposed to rapidly swinging heavy ones?

 

The list goes on....

 

Please know that I don't really care one whit whether they change the ammunition count for these weapons... It's irrelevant to me what they do with them as I don't use them often.

What is relevant to me is the opportunity cost.

 

I always marvel at what we choose to get animated about and ask the devs to spend their time on when their time is obviously in short supply.

 

What gets pushed back to feed irrelevancies like this?

That's what I want to know.

[(PSN)GrandmaKilledU]

Its a culture thing i suppose.. some folks work and some folks steal and some folks lie...

my money has been stolen because DE thinks its okay to do that.

going PvP should simply have a handicapping gatekeeper and leave PvE alone..

[Llyssa]

I'm not entirely sure what the duration was on PS4, but the PC shelf life of the "awesome" charge attack on Jat Kittag was about 2 weeks. So there wasn't much to miss.

 

Looking it up, it was tad over a month on PS4.

 

I don't know why you spent money on forma(for the PC, they drop from the void and from alerts and from invasions).

 

As you still have the jat, you didn't actually lose anything, and if you get the hammer stances, you can still fairly much do the same thing with it.

 

I've started posts before about the possibility of getting "charge stances", ie. stances where the combo opens with "hold e". So I'd personally suggest going to talk there, as I believe that would get you most of what you want.

[Seele]

Its a culture thing i suppose.. some folks work and some folks steal and some folks lie...

my money has been stolen because DE thinks its okay to do that.

I will inform you that you agreed to an end user license agreement stating that you own nothing in this game but the platinum you've purchased. Digital Extremes holds every right to reset every account in the game to rank 0 with nothing but the chosen starter frame, the Mk-1, Lato, and Skana.

 

The only thing you would be owed is the platinum you've purchased, which would be restored to you.

[(PSN)GrandmaKilledU]

Silver Eagle... yes i have the weapon but function has been ruined. And forma do not drop often on ps4 so i added as needed which is spending real money on dojo. I even used forma sparingly but even then there were a lot needed. Weapons need them as well

[(PSN)GrandmaKilledU]

Agreed SEEKER but i was talking "culture" not legality..

[(PSN)ShadowDancing-]

I love how much people think weapons and frames should be made less fun as a solution to other weapons and frames not being fun.  That DE pays any attention at all to the nerf this, balance that, it's just not realistic (but anything involving space ninjas is?) crowd is disappointing.  Nerfing favorite frames in a quixotic attempt at balance doesn't make the game any more fun.  The vast majority of people complaining about frames being OP don't actually play those frames.  So all this does is make the people who do enjoy those frames have less fun.  Less fun is not good business for DE and it's not fun for me.

 

There are far far more serious problems that need addressing.  

(1) End game is completely missing.  I love how Dark Sectors have brought the infested back onto the map, but it's basically the same missions as before.  And story wise tenno murdering tenno over credits and rails is just bizarre if not an outright contradiction.  And that's what is missing most, story.

 

(2) The RNG system is blatantly unfair and consequently terribly frustrating.  The drop tables in the void have been diluted beyond all reason.  As more things get added, the problem only gets worse.  Some clan mates get that rare drop on a first try and others grind for weeks to no avail.  Human beings hate unfairness, and this system is not fun.  I don't have a problem with rare things being hard to get, but difficulty should be proportional to effort.  Powerful or rare items should be achievement driven not exclusively uck driven.

 

(3) New weapons keep getting introduced with inflated power.  I don't mind this in the least, it's PvE, and the new effects have been fun.  Which is really what the game ought to be about.  Fun.  Not balance.  Not realism.  Fun.  But haring off to nerf old favorites while adding Boltor Primes and Angstrums is just grudge inducing.

 

Instead of avoiding the challenges and "balancing" things to be less fun, under powered frames, weapons, and mods should all be boosted to be more fun.  And the difficulty of void or dark sector missions can be ramped up to compensate.

[(PSN)ShadowDancing-]

p.s. We're space ninjas in a PvE game.  We're supposed to be demi-gods, not "balanced"

[Lag_Killed_You_Not_Me]

I don't quite understand the problem with this. How does this affect you in any way if I have an ogris with infinite ammo?

 

Most people tend to leave the Ogris for ODD or Dark sector defenses. Penta and Angstrum are a little bit more used outside of those mission types (Angstrum in particular due to it just coming out and people maxing it out for mastery) due to the smaller explosive radius and therefore less likely to suicide, but I don't see how them having infinite ammo affects you in the slightest. Are you hoping they just run out of ammo? Even if that were the case, they would just pop an ammo restore and go back to blowing stuff up.

 

Even if they lowered the amount of ammo for explosive weaponry, if used properly like it is in infested defence mission, blowing up 3+ infested with a single rocket / grenade will more than likely result in that person being able to replenish their ammo regardless; even if it were something as rare as sniper ammo.

 

If your point is to point out that some weapons run out of ammo very quickly (Dex furix, Grakata etc.) then don't attempt to nerf explosive weapons along with them. I can understand being frustrated since Dex furis can use all it's ammo in less than 30 seconds, but don't be upset about other weapons having nearly infinite ammo pools.

 

On top of everything, I never see anyone complaining about weapons that aren't explosive with nearly infinite ammo reserves.I don't see anyone crying about the Latron Prime. I don't see people upset about Tigris having infinite ammo. nor do I see anyone complaining about the Attica with it's inexhaustible ammo pool. I believe a lot of people simply want explosive weaponry nerfed because of "kill stealing" in a game based entirely on co-op where experience is shared.

QFT.

[(PSN)GrandmaKilledU]

++++20000000!!!! Way to say it like it is shadowdancing!!!

[-Mr.Meeseeks-]

-snip-

 

I disagree entirely on the the idea of DE nerfing things because they think they are unbalanced. I think it's entirely about people crying about things being OP.

 

For example: people cry Trin needs a nerf because blessing is too strong. Fair enough I can agree with that to a certain extent.

People cry Nova needs a nerf due to MP clearing a low-mid level army in a blink of an eye. Ok fine I can understand that.

 

Now ever since Since Nova got the nerf to her ult i've decided make my 0-forma Ember Prime my new Nova. I've run a lot of Grineer vs. corpus invasions recently and have been able to rush them just as well with her as I have with Nova pre-nerf. The enemies may not disappear Immediately but fast enough for me to spam 4 and run down the hallway while killing everything in my path and almost never firing any guns. In nearly every single one of those run's I've gotten 80%+ damage out of the 3-4 people in all my missions.

 

Now why hasn't Ember gotten a nerf to her ult? I believe it's due to people not ever complaining that she's OP.

 

 

On the main topic at hand, I don't believe people will be happy until every piece of explosive weaponry can only be used for a few minutes and then have to be put away without the use of an ammo restore; unlike 90% of weapons that exist in warframe today. Even the Soma with proper ammo expenditure won't run out of ammo; and that's an LMG!

[Seele]

Perhaps DE should make another server with another build of the game.

 

We "nerf-nazis" can continue playing the game we all play now.

The other server can host a build in which players may choose a number key (1-4) or the left mouse button to win the game with each option offering a differing variety of explosions and number pop-ups.

 

Know what else was a PvE co-op game? Borderlands. And in Borderlands, rocket launchers, and the rockets which were fired out of them, were both rare and expensive. So you couldn't just blow up everything in the game with your overpowered rocket launcher. There were reasons to use other weapons and strategies.

And yet they were still wildly popular! Imagine that. But here we are trying to suck all the fun out of the game, shame on us.