Bladestorm Improvements Needed

[Llyssa]

Okay, new bladestorm is super fast. That kind of sucks in a way, but that's beside the point.

 

Main issues(besides losing out on the invuln period):

1. No visual feedback. You don't get to see anything about the clones, so you have NO idea how much stuff you've killed, and how much stuff you've missed. There needs to either be a camera pan or a split screen or something to help with this.

 

2. Lost loot. It's always been a requirement to do some scavenging after a bladestorm if you want everything, but grabbing a majority of the items as you were teleporting(a good 90%+ with a carrier) was one of the perks of it. Even if you didn't grab everything, you at least knew where the bodies were to go after them.

 

The clones don't pick up anything, so you're left searching the entire map to see most/all of the loot you've created. They should either carry it back to you, or be able to pick things up themselves.

 

Overall, bladestorm is now very disorienting(always has been), but without the added protection and without the pickups. It's faster, but it's not actually "better". In fact, I'd almost go so far as to say it's a shade worse, as you're purposely confusing yourself/losing your bearings, with no trade up beyond a few dead enemies.

 

I really think a camera pan would help most--it'd allow you to see the clones working, see the loot they're missing, and reduce/remove the virtually pointless disorientation.

 

With these quality-of-life improvements, I think bladestorm would finally be where it needs to be. Until then, I'm much less-likely to use ash in the future, as the quick screen change for a partial mode is more trouble than it's worth.(When it was longer, you got a feel for the mode shifts. As-is, it's a bit hard to process properly despite knowing what's going on).

 

EDIT: Possibly better idea: Use the hydroid puddle trick(shrink ash, move him into the floor) so that he cannot be hurt and the camera does not move, and then spawn the clones. That way, you get to see the cool ninja attacks, you get to see where most things are dying, and you don't end up lost and confused.

 

EDIT2: It would also be pleasant if the clones were free and optional. That way, if someone wanted a full on bladestorm, they could have it, but could summon clones by pressing 4 again during the bladestorm. That way, if they need the super-fast version to save someone's life, they can, and if they need to buy themselves time, they can.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Llyssa

[Orbister]

Maybe Ash could just stay in the place "in a cool stance" while the clones kill, and that way we could see where is the loot dropping.

[Moderius]

Okay, I'm going to point out two things, here.

 

First: There are so many Bladestorm topics right now. No reason to make a new one.

 

Second: "Lost loot".. you realize every other Warframe that kills things also has to run around and pick up items too, right? If an ally kills something, you don't immediately know about it. If Volt kills an enemy through a wall with Overload, he still has to find the loot, too.

[Orbister]

Okay, I'm going to point out two things, here.

 

First: There are so many Bladestorm topics right now. No reason to make a new one.

 

Second: "Lost loot".. you realize every other Warframe that kills things also has to run around and pick up items too, right? If an ally kills something, you don't immediately know about it. If Volt kills an enemy through a wall with Overload, he still has to find the loot, too.

But the problem with ash is that the weird camera and animation does not allow you to keep track of where everything dropped. 

[Moderius]

But the problem with ash is that the weird camera and animation does not allow you to keep track of where everything dropped. 

 

That...what did I just say?

 

The camera doesn't focus on every enemy that's killed by any other ability, either. Mag or Volt or Ember or Rhino or pretty much anyone with an AoE ult doesn't get a camera panning to show every enemy they kill.

[Llyssa]

Maybe Ash could just stay in the place "in a cool stance" while the clones kill, and that way we could see where is the loot dropping.

Hm. Maybe. Perhaps something better, borrowing a trick from our good friend hydroid: Shrink ash, move him into the floor(so that the camera stays put and he cannot be hurt--that's what puddle skill does), and then just spawn the clones. That way, you'd still see the cool ninja attacks, you'd still get the sense that it's your warframe doing it, but you wouldn't be subjected to the very disjointed experience we have now, and you'd see the bodies as they fall.

[Orbister]

That...what did I just say?

 

The camera doesn't focus on every enemy that's killed by any other ability, either. Mag or Volt or Ember or Rhino or pretty much anyone with an AoE ult doesn't get a camera panning to show every enemy they kill.

BUT U CANT FREAKING CONTROL IT! seriously what is your problem? ash's camera is unique and weird and uncomfortable, do you even have anything useful contribute? it is the ONLY ability in which u cant control the camera, with all others you can rotate it and see what you are killing and where.

Edited May 29, 2014 by Orbister

[Llyssa]

That...what did I just say?

 

The camera doesn't focus on every enemy that's killed by any other ability, either. Mag or Volt or Ember or Rhino or pretty much anyone with an AoE ult doesn't get a camera panning to show every enemy they kill.

Yeah, but Mag and Volt and Ember and Rhino stay standing in the same place. Ash ends up teleporting to a new location, facing a new direction, after having NO idea where ANYTHING he killed died at, and only a vague sense of where he was standing before. The day the other frames start teleporting around and facing random directions when they use their ults, with the screen blanked out completely while the ult is firing, you'll have a point. Until then, you do not.

[Orbister]

Hm. Maybe. Perhaps something better, borrowing a trick from our good friend hydroid: Shrink ash, move him into the floor(so that the camera stays put and he cannot be hurt--that's what puddle skill does), and then just spawn the clones. That way, you'd still see the cool ninja attacks, you'd still get the sense that it's your warframe doing it, but you wouldn't be subjected to the very disjointed experience we have now, and you'd see the bodies as they fall.

yea, whatever they come up with but something less "cool looking" and more "user-friendly"

Edited May 29, 2014 by Orbister

[VoidPunch]

I agree, Blade storm is underwhelming now. It goes by too fast. I see about 3 animations and it's over, that's no fun. I think a split screen effect or just total zoom out of the entire tile so you can see all three ash's kill would be cool. Right now it's weird, you kill a couple things and when you come back 3 times the enemies you killed are now dead but you didn't see a single clone

[Novocrane]

Maybe Ash could just stay in the place "in a cool stance" while the clones kill, and that way we could see where is the loot dropping.

Supporting this, but with some visual effect to show that Bladestorm is ongoing, and that you can't be attacked while it's happening.

Doubly so if it involves standing on one leg, with smoke effects and flickering invisibility.

Edited May 29, 2014 by Novocrane

[Llyssa]

I agree, Blade storm is underwhelming now. It goes by too fast. I see about 3 animations and it's over, that's no fun. I think a split screen effect or just total zoom out of the entire tile so you can see all three ash's kill would be cool. Right now it's weird, you kill a couple things and when you come back 3 times the enemies you killed are now dead but you didn't see a single clone

I did see a clone once, he killed the guy next to the guy I was killing, with the same animation. But after about 30 bladestorms, that's the only clone I've seen.

[BIossome]

I miss knowing how many kills you got with the combo counter. I think the clones should add their kills/hits to our combo counter.

[Stefanovich]

Also Blade Storm is bugged and doesn't force bleed procs right now, also, the clones don't contribute to your melee hit combo.

DE, fix dem bugs pwease.

[Joyfulmama]

Oh god too many problems people have no matter what DE do to try improve

[Orbister]

Oh god too many problems people have no matter what DE do to try improve

People dont have problems, bugs are problems, they are caused by changes, it is natural, contribute something useful or leave.

[RealPandemonium]

That...what did I just say?

 

The camera doesn't focus on every enemy that's killed by any other ability, either. Mag or Volt or Ember or Rhino or pretty much anyone with an AoE ult doesn't get a camera panning to show every enemy they kill.

They do get damage or affinity numbers to indicate where their abilities struck, however. 

 

I agree, Blade storm is underwhelming now. It goes by too fast. I see about 3 animations and it's over, that's no fun. I think a split screen effect or just total zoom out of the entire tile so you can see all three ash's kill would be cool. Right now it's weird, you kill a couple things and when you come back 3 times the enemies you killed are now dead but you didn't see a single clone

The animation speed up is fine but the clones are unnecessary and turn the ability into a generic nuke while both reducing its survivability bonus and taking away the oportunity cost of using it.  Being locked in an animation in exchange for huge damage and clutch survivability is the essence of Blade Storm and makes it powerful without making it mindless.  The animation was a bit slow, but that has been fixed.  The clones are overkill and remove the ability's unique niche while being pretty lame in execution, which removes the skill's "cool factor" which was formerly one of its best properties. 

Edited May 29, 2014 by RealPandemonium

[Llyssa]

They do get damage or affinity numbers to indicate where their abilities struck, however. 

 

The animation speed up is fine but the clones are unnecessary and turn the ability into a generic nuke while both reducing its survivability bonus and taking away the oportunity cost of using it.  Being locked in an animation in exchange for huge damage and clutch survivability is the essence of Blade Storm and makes it powerful without making it mindless.  The animation was a bit slow, but that has been fixed.  The clones are overkill and remove the ability's unique niche while being pretty lame in execution, which removes the skill's "cool factor" which was formerly one of its best properties. 

I think, to that cause, the clones are okay, but they should be free and optional... ie. hitting 4 again spawns one, hitting 4 again spawns another.

 

That way, you could get the ultra-high-speed we have now, if you needed it(HATE watching people bleed out while bladestorm is taking its time), or you could have the "I'm buying time while we regen" option of yore.

[Nagisawa]

The problem is Ash.

 

He's a single player ONLY action figure in a game about teams of four.  He's built for Stealth (although Loki is technically better.but whatevs), which works best alone (Why do think all the stealth action games have been single player only?) and Assassination, again a job best done solo.

 

He should not exist.

 

And I say this as both a soloist in Warframe, and a HUGE fan of that 'frame.  It's just not tenable.  And it likely never will be.

[TheErebus.]

The problem is Ash.

 

He's a single player ONLY action figure in a game about teams of four.  He's built for Stealth (although Loki is technically better.but whatevs), which works best alone (Why do think all the stealth action games have been single player only?) and Assassination, again a job best done solo.

 

He should not exist.

 

I call complete bulldookie on that.

I play as a full-time ash and never has he been a detriment to the team, his melee can be very useful for eliminating huge amount of crowds.

[Nagisawa]

I call complete bulldookie on that.

I play as a full-time ash and never has he been a detriment to the team, his melee can be very useful for eliminating huge amount of crowds.

You mean they NEVER TOLD YOU that you were a detriment to the team.  Either that, or you primarily use him for his health pool and his Shuriken or Smokescreen, rarely do people want you to pop Blade Storm.  Especially if you have a Nova or a Rhino in the group.  Which have a more effective and efficient Power 4.

[TheErebus.]

You mean they NEVER TOLD YOU that you were a detriment to the team.  Either that, or you primarily use him for his health pool and his Shuriken or Smokescreen, rarely do people want you to pop Blade Storm.  Especially if you have a Nova or a Rhino in the group.  Which have a more effective and efficient Power 4.

I use blade storm on a regular basis.

And yes, you're right I do use a high health Ash, but that's how he's best used.

 

The fact that you say he shouldn't exist is downright ridiculous.

[Nagisawa]

I use blade storm on a regular basis.

And yes, you're right I do use a high health Ash, but that's how he's best used.

 

The fact that you say he shouldn't exist is downright ridiculous.

He shouldn't exist as he stands now.  Because all his powers are built around the 'Ninja' Ideal, which is a fantasy (But so is this game) and the Ninja Ideal is a SOLO OPERATIVE.  A silent killer able to get into anything, anywhere, no matter how secure.  And this game is about a four man fire team, nothing more, nothing less.

 

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Ash, because he works damn well as a solo frame, but this game's solo component is a bloody joke that the Devs threw for us pathetic casuals.

[Endrance]

 

, but this game's solo component is a bloody joke that the Devs threw for us pathetic casuals.

The game coop components is as bloody joke as the solo. Since the only "coop" feature you have is opening blast doors and additional damage/meat shields.

 

So, basically Ash is the only frame that is actually well made for this game, since he has all the required to play it.

[Nagisawa]

The game coop components is as bloody joke as the solo. Since the only "coop" feature you have is opening blast doors and additional damage/meat shields.

 

So, basically Ash is the only frame that is actually well made for this game, since he has all the required to play it.

Unfortunately, DE is trying to groupify him,  Not going to work.