Response To "boltor Nerf Thread" (And All Nerfs In General)

[UndeadGhostWarrior]

If u have ever been passed and hour in survival u will see that boltor prime is ineffective and essentially nearly useless as enemies just soak up most of the damage (speaking from experience with a 5 forma boltor prime) . I'm talking about void T3 Survival. u people run around normal missions on earth with fully formad weapons and then cry for nerfs yet half of u cant make it passed an hour in void missions. YOU SHOULD NOT be using fully formad weapons for regular missions and alerts, they should be used for high level missions namely high end defense or survival. Planet level enemies are not sufficiently equipped to survive against anything with more than 5 formas. What's the point using fully formad weapons on regular planets then crying for nerf? OBVIOUSLY its going to be OP as the enemy levels are 10-20.

 

If u people want to nerf every strong weapon in the game then what about the people who like to do a few hours of survival and like to go passed wave 100 in defense? What about the people who want to make it on the Leaderboards? Obviously i'm not saying the game should be balanced around wave 100 defense but by asking for nerf after running planet missions do u want the game to be balanced around level 20 enemies?

 

End game is slowly being destroyed 1 nerf at a time. Please try playing high end before deciding something needs a nerf

 

Please use common sense when entering normal planet missions, If u are taking in fully formad gear then understand what u are doing and what level of enemies u will be facing, Don't join , kill everything, then say oh too OP lets nerf.

 

As a veteran, i love playing for long periods of time in defense/survival , but the amount of weapons one can actually use to do a decent amount of damage is dwindling.

 

EDIT : So essentially what some people are saying is because THEY don't like playing endlessly the weapon should be scaled down for regular planets because that's what the devs intended anyway?

Edited June 3, 2014 by UndeadGhostWarrior

[Zareek]

If they keep nerfing, they will have to rebalance that much more when harder content is being released.

[Arunafeltz]

What end game

[Dalu__Ka]

Make ''end game'' actually difficult? how dare they!

[CBAROG]

If you consider endless game modes endgame, you are really dumb. DE said that endless survival/defense is not endgame. it's just a result of being endless. And they said it not once, not twice but multiple times.

[tocorro]

OP is right. I don't understand this cry for equality. High tier weapons as it name states is for high end enemies. Then they are not OP at all. And prime weaponry is a pinnacle in this game. If U people don't want them to make such massive damage on low-mid levels, then change mods in them, or don't mod them at all. Crying for nerf isn't right. Consider people that play only high level void. What are they supposed to fight with when every weapon would be equall ? Every one should just run with Loki or something and slash away ? Everyone should have a chance to choose how they want to play. Don't impose Your ideals on others.  

[CBAROG]

If u people want to nerf every strong weapon in the game then what about the people who like do do a few hours of survival and like to go passed wave 100 in defense? What about the people who want to make it on the Leaderboards?

 

They can shove their opinion up their asses.

 

End game is slowly being destroyed 1 nerf at a time. Please try playing high end before deciding something needs a nerf

 

There's no endgame in Warframe. 

[Hawner]

If u have ever been passed and hour in survival u will see that boltor prime is ineffective and essentially nearly useless as enemies just soak up most of the damage (speaking from experience with a 5 forma boltor prime) . I'm talking about void T3 Survival. u people run around normal missions on earth with fully formad weapons and then cry for nerfs yet half of u have no idea what end game is and cant make it passed an hour in void missions. YOU SHOULD NOT be using fully formad weapons for regular missions and alerts, they should be used for high level missions namely high end defense or survival. What's the point using fully formad weapons on regular planets then crying for nerf? OBVIOUSLY its going to be OP as the enemy levels are 10-20

 

If u people want to nerf every strong weapon in the game then what about the people who like do do a few hours of survival and like to go passed wave 100 in defense? What about the people who want to make it on the Leaderboards?

 

End game is slowly being destroyed 1 nerf at a time. Please try playing high end before deciding something needs a nerf

 

Do you think people do listen to people like us? I've been trying to tell just that several times in other threads, but they do not listen at all. It's a lost cause, the game is going downhill because of guys like that.

[VKhaun]

Endless is not a metric of strength, it's a metric of variety. If only one or two weapons makes sense at 60min then something is wrong.

[VKhaun]

Do you think people do listen to people like us? I've been trying to tell just that several times in other threads, but they do not listen at all. It's a lost cause, the game is going downhill because of guys like that.

 

That's not correct. I've talked to you before and anyone can see your post history. You get real answers and you go way off into outer space trying to argue everything but the point.

 

You can't leave a game imbalanced or it kills variety when only one weapon is viable to the longest amount of time. You can't balance enemies and bosses to be fought by both OP weapons/skills and by UP weapons at the same time, not knowing what the player will be using. You can't balance one enemy to fight four Nova's and Embers with crazy damage buffs but no pre-nerf Trinity, and at the same time that enemy can't be balanced to fight four Trinity with no damage buffs. It just doesn't work that way. The difference is too great. It will never make sense.

 

You have to balance in both directions using nerfs and buffs to even the scales, not throw both scales at the ceiling or chop the chain and let them both fall.

 

If we had more STRUCTURE maybe we would need fewer nerfs, like a loadout point cost similar to conclave rating. Boltor Prime could be left OP if it was 'expensive' to equip by costing a lot of points, or DE could declare an intended group composition of 1 support, 1 dps, etc and make that public. Just a very rough example to illustrate the third aspect of support, not a ready-to-go-solution or anything.

Edited June 2, 2014 by VKhaun

[Mastikator2]

Both I and Endorphinz are basing our view on Boltor Prime on how it fares compared to other primary weapons, it has higher DPS than Soma, a weapon considered to be the king of power creep.

It has nothing to do with what level you're at.

[UndeadGhostWarrior]

If you consider endless game modes endgame, you are really dumb. DE said that endless survival/defense is not endgame. it's just a result of being endless. And they said it not once, not twice but multiple times.

 

 

yes genius , if u read carefully u will notice that i did not say that end game=endless def/surv

[CBAROG]

yes genius , if u read carefully u will notice that i did not say that end game=endless def/surv

 

End game is slowly being destroyed 1 nerf at a time. Please try playing high end before deciding something needs a nerf

Oh, so you were not talking about Endless Defense/Survival? What is it then? What's that "high end"?

[CBAROG]

OP is right. I don't understand this cry for equality. High tier weapons as it name states is for high end enemies. Then they are not OP at all. And prime weaponry is a pinnacle in this game. If U people don't want them to make such massive damage on low-mid levels, then change mods in them, or don't mod them at all. Crying for nerf isn't right. Consider people that play only high level void. What are they supposed to fight with when every weapon would be equall ? Every one should just run with Loki or something and slash away ? Everyone should have a chance to choose how they want to play. Don't impose Your ideals on others.  

Everyone should just run with pre-nerf Trinity with Boltor Prime? And actually it's you, OP lovers, impose you OP ideals on others.

[Vyrn]

Sure, Boltor Prime's damage will fall off, but I think the point is that it falls off *later* than other weapons' damage. In other words, in some circumstances it will be useful for much longer than other weapons. Its stats on paper, and I emphasize the "on paper" part, show it to be significantly "better" than other weapons in similar categories, so of course people will cry for nerfs, cry for buffs, cry for enemy nerfs, cry for enemy buffs, or decry it as "op" and "broken." As for me, I've found other weapons that work just as well if not better, so I really don't care. However, it is pretty annoying to see a fair percentage of players all running around with the same equipment that "warframe-builder.com said is best" lol

 

Also, OP, about the leaderboards thing...How about we make it more about skill and less about who has been playing longer (and has "better" gear/mods) or is willing to sit down for the longest time.
 

 

What are they supposed to fight with when every weapon would be equall ? Every one should just run with Loki or something and slash away ? Everyone should have a chance to choose how they want to play. Don't impose Your ideals on others.  

You answered your own question. If all weapons were equal (or at least more equal than they currently are), then people would be able to play how they want and with the weapons they want without others condescending to them or acting like said player is "dragging them down." Also, that "don't impose your ideals part" is a dangerous game.

[neKroMancer]

OP is right. I don't understand this cry for equality. High tier weapons as it name states is for high end enemies. Then they are not OP at all. And prime weaponry is a pinnacle in this game. If U people don't want them to make such massive damage on low-mid levels, then change mods in them, or don't mod them at all. Crying for nerf isn't right. Consider people that play only high level void. What are they supposed to fight with when every weapon would be equall ? Every one should just run with Loki or something and slash away ? Everyone should have a chance to choose how they want to play. Don't impose Your ideals on others.  

 

Want to play high level? Use Boltor prime?

What about other weapons? Are they supposed to be junk for mastery (and also sold in platinum/research)? 

 

You can clearly see where this is going. When the game has 150 weapons to choose but we actually have just one that reach far higher than others (with mastery rank 2 requirement) then we have literally no choice at all. We can't choose just "any" weapon if we want to maximize our chance to get the most loot - only Boltor prime.

 

Everyone should have a chance to choose how they want to play? Well, I can't bring 150 others to the same 'high' level of Boltor prime - Shouldn't I have a chance to bring Flux rifle to the same level? Shouldn't I have a chance to bring Dera?

 

Able to equip the item isn't truly a choice.

Able to use it without feeling gimping yourself is a choice. It's a meaningful choice vs illusion of having one. 

 

I am probably the person who is supposed to defend Boltor prime since I bought it through prime access but the gun's capability is just disgustingly high compared to other weapons to the point that it has already been sitting on the shelf for a few months. 

[UndeadGhostWarrior]

Everyone should just run with pre-nerf Trinity with Boltor Prime? And actually it's you, OP lovers, impose you OP ideals on others.

 

noboody said anything about trinity. 'OP' lovers?  what we are actually trying to say is use op weapons where its actually needed , not in planet missions or alerts. otherwise theres no point, planet level enemies are not sufficiently equipped to survive against anything with more than 5 formas. its like using an ogris running around mars. they will die but try using it after wave 100? not so tough now eh

[5stareraser]

Dont nerf it . After lvl 40-45+ even Boltor Prime is useless.

[CBAROG]

I don't understand what are you trying to say, UndeadGhostWarrior. Frist of all, this reply isn't for you. Second, what do you want? Game balanced around 100th wave of defense? Not happening.

Edited June 2, 2014 by CBAROG

[UndeadGhostWarrior]

I don't understand what are you trying to say, UndeadGhostWarrior. Frist of all, this reply isn't for you. Second, what do you want? Game balanced around 100th wave of defense? Not happening

 

Not at all. i just want players to use common sense. Common sense being to not use fully formad weapons on weak enemies then say nerf. Unless u want the game balanced around level 20 enemies?

[CBAROG]

Not at all. i just want players to use common sense. Common sense being to not use fully formad weapons on weak enemies then say nerf. Unless u want the game balanced around level 20 enemies?

Nope. I want the game balanced aroud 1-40(don't remember max Pluto level). 

[UndeadGhostWarrior]

If u have ever been passed and hour in survival u will see that boltor prime is ineffective and essentially nearly useless as enemies just soak up most of the damage (speaking from experience with a 5 forma boltor prime) . I'm talking about void T3 Survival. u people run around normal missions on earth with fully formad weapons and then cry for nerfs yet half of u cant make it passed an hour in void missions. YOU SHOULD NOT be using fully formad weapons for regular missions and alerts, they should be used for high level missions namely high end defense or survival. Planet level enemies are not sufficiently equipped to survive against anything with more than 5 formas. What's the point using fully formad weapons on regular planets then crying for nerf? OBVIOUSLY its going to be OP as the enemy levels are 10-20.

 

If u people want to nerf every strong weapon in the game then what about the people who like to do a few hours of survival and like to go passed wave 100 in defense? What about the people who want to make it on the Leaderboards? Obviously im not saying the game should be balanced around wave 100 defense but by asking for nerf after running planet missions do u want the game to be balanced around level 20 enemies?

 

End game is slowly being destroyed 1 nerf at a time. Please try playing high end before deciding something needs a nerf

 

Please use common sense when entering normal planet missions, If u are taking in fully formad gear then understand what u are doing and what level of enemies u will be facing, Don't join , kill everything, then say oh too OP lets nerf.

 

As a veteran, i love playing for long periods of time in defense/survival , but the amount of weapons one can actually use to do a decent amount of damage is dwindling.

Edited June 2, 2014 by UndeadGhostWarrior

[Lunamaniac]

End game gets better with every nerf.

[DMan]

The use of logic / brain was abandoned since the release of the world wide web.

You shouldn't waste your time to explain that to them. They won't read it anyway due to TL;DR reasons.

[Tulzscha]

You already have an existing thread for this - merging.