Thoughts On Releasing The Aklato Prime And Dual Skana Prime [Please Be Civil And Constructive]

[Yezzik]

And again, why not just make completely new gear rather than trying to take what Founders have?

And again, why not just make completely new gear rather than trying to take what Founders have?

I'm not trying to take what Founders have.

I'm trying to strike a balance between the two sides here.

Entirely different gear wouldn't concern this issue at all.

[The_Lunatic_]

I'm not trying to take what Founders have.

I'm trying to strike a balance between the two sides here.

Entirely different gear wouldn't concern this issue at all.

 

Why does there need to be a strike between balance?

 

The balance is as followed.

 

Want founder items?

 

Did you buy it?

 

There you go. You can have the founder items.

 

 

Didn't buy it? Oh. Well, plenty of other weapons.

[Yezzik]

Why does there need to be a strike between balance?

 

The balance is as followed.

 

Want founder items?

 

Did you buy it?

 

There you go. You can have the founder items.

 

 

Didn't buy it? Oh. Well, plenty of other weapons.

Please stop projecting your concerns with the people who want the Founders' items onto me.

[The_Lunatic_]

Please stop projecting your concerns with the people who want the Founders' items onto me.

 

Then stop asking for Founders items.

 

You've yet to explain why there needs to be some "Compromise" in the face of overwhelming voices of "Leave it as it is".

 

Look at the first page. Look at the amount of "+1"s the posts which say "No" get compared to yours.

 

People do not want to compromise. Stop trying to act like there's any to be had.

[Kazzamo]

The whole 1+1=2 thing isn't exactly correct, not with the way the system works here. If dual wield was based on you equipping a weapon in each hand of the tenno such as putting one skana in one hand and another skana in the other like most games handle it than it would be. Warframe does not do this, here a ak/dual version counts as a different weapon. 

[NightBeats]

The whole 1+1=2 thing isn't exactly correct, not with the way the system works here. If dual wield was based on you equipping a weapon in each hand of the tenno such as putting one skana in one hand and another skana in the other like most games handle it than it would be. Warframe does not do this, here a ak/dual version counts as a different weapon. 

 

It blows my mind that so many people don't get this.

 

When you equip Dual Skana Prime, what do you have in your hands? 2 SKANA PRIMES.

 

What does Dual mean? 2! So what does Dual Skana Prime mean? 2 SKANA PRIMES.

 

What is exclusive to the Founders? SKANA PRIME.

 

You can't give people 2 SKANA PRIMES and then turn around and tell the Founders that they're magically different because THEY'RE NOT.

[Kazzamo]

Wrong, it's a different fighting style, different move set, different stats. They are different. You do not have 2 hand slots where you can put any one hand weapon mix you want there, it's not giving two skana primes to people it's giving 1 dual skana prime. There is a difference.

[NightBeats]

it's not giving two skana primes to people it's giving 1 dual skana prime.

 

Dual means 2, you are literally contradicting yourself.

[Yezzik]

Then stop asking for Founders items.

You've yet to explain why there needs to be some "Compromise" in the face of overwhelming voices of "Leave it as it is."

Simple.

It'll mean less arguing over this issue, which means less of these topics. As long as Team A and Team B are diametrically opposed and unable to set aside their differences and discuss the possibility of a middle ground, neither side will relent.

I'm trying to make that discussion happen. I'm not asking for your items; I'm trying to debate the possibility of a solution that won't screw over one side or the other.

I've tried looking at this issue from the perspective of gameplay and balance, but it became clear to me from seeing this talk of Ak variants that it's more cosmetic than anything else.

Hence, I tried to find a balance between "we want Dual Skana Prime" and "we don't want you to have it."

People will either compromise on this somehow, some way, or at least one side will come away disappointed with nothing to show for it.

And the arguing will continue unabated no matter who wins.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Yezzik

[Zaresin]

One way they can get around the founders issue is release the Aklato and Duel Skana in the marketplace for plat and tie their mastery into the single versions as well as their duel counterparts.  The original agreement by DE to the founders never included the Duel or Ak versions of the founders weapons.  To suggest otherwise means you didn't read.  

 

They can also tie the mastery gained from Excal to his excal prime counterpart so that people would get the mastery for that.  In the end people don't want the weapons, they want the mastery as none of the founder equipment is good anymore (minus excal and he is still very niche and the plain version is just as good as the prime).  

 

For founders they could get the complete blueprint to make the duel and ak versions for free (remember the complete frost prime blueprints they gave out?).  then.....TAAADAAAA...argument is now over forever.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Zaresin

[Doom_Bunny]

 

And we should have to negotiate because...?

 

De offered a deal. Founders bought the deal. That should be the end of the story, but no. People start doing everything in their power to find whatever loophole they can to get Founders' exclusives and say we're selfish when we try to stop them. Utter insanity. We don't have to negotiate because we never did anything wrong.

 

And Aggh, don't even bother. Dual Skana Prime = 1 Skana Prime + 1 Skana Prime. You can't have one without the other, so yes, it would be extremely dishonest of DE to release these.

"De offered a deal. Founders bought the deal. That should be the end of the story." That is the end of that story along with some new players complaining which stopped a few months ago arfter ps4 was released.

 

This on the other hand is a new story one in which that does not invovle the previous story, but people will still get involved and twist the story. This is not about founder's gear it is about two weapons which have not been created besides in trailers and no one besides DE has claim to them. Unfourtunatley people believe this story does involve the founders and that the founders own these varients even though they did not pay for them.

 

They did not buy them, they didn't even conceive the idea that these weapons could be primed. Yet players believe they are entitled to these weapons because they bought the single varients. So they will interfere because they believe it inflects on their founder's pack. We even offered componsation to these people most accepted but some still believe that the weapons are theirs and should not be released.

 

So why should DE with hold items just because players believe they are entitled to them?

 

 

 

It blows my mind that so many people don't get this.

 

When you equip Dual Skana Prime, what do you have in your hands? 2 SKANA PRIMES.

 

What does Dual mean? 2! So what does Dual Skana Prime mean? 2 SKANA PRIMES.

 

What is exclusive to the Founders? SKANA PRIME.

 

You can't give people 2 SKANA PRIMES and then turn around and tell the Founders that they're magically different because THEY'RE NOT.

You do that, you will still be swining as if you had a single sword. This is a game, a dual weapon isn't as simple as copying the weapon.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Postal_pat

[Garuda112]

Considering that these are, for most intents and purposes, upgrades of the single versions, I would feel like that Founders would be ripped off of the value of their purchase. Spending that money (don't remember the prices) for an exclusive reward should be special and valued. Adding in what is essentially an upgrade in the game doesn't feel fair for those that decided to finanically support the game like that.

 

Besides, the concept that one has to pay over 100 dollars for a single version of a weapon to then find the dual version in game with only costing paitence and time doesn't seem logical. This is in reference to the 1+1 = 2 discussion above.

 

I'd rather leave the Skana and Lato Prime not have any other versions, upgrades, alternates, or rereleases whatsoever. They paid for them as exclusive in a limited window of time, and that time ended long ago. Any reiteration, as said, defeats the point of exclusivity and the value of what was paid for.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Garuda112

[The_Lunatic_]

Simple.

It'll mean less arguing over this issue, which means less of these topics. As long as Team A and Team B are diametrically opposed and unable to set aside their differences and discuss the possibility of a middle ground, neither side will relent.

I'm trying to make that discussion happen. I'm not asking for your items; I'm trying to debate the possibility of a solution that won't screw over one side or the other.

I've tried looking at this issue from the perspective of gameplay and balance, but it became clear to me from seeing this talk of Ak variants that it's more cosmetic than anything else.

Hence, I tried to find a balance between "we want Dual Skana Prime" and "we don't want you to have it."

People will either compromise on this somehow, some way, or at least one side will come away disappointed with nothing to show for it.

 

Then let them be disappointed. DE is not under any obligation to break promises it made to Founders on behalf of people who want a shiney weapon.

 

What's wrong with one side being disappointed?

 

As this discussion has shown, this "One side" is pretty much just You, a guy that doesn't get 1+1 and the occasional indifferent founder.

 

You can't get everything you want.

 

If I wanted DE to add giant obnoxious neon lights which flash every time a player walks into a room, and everyone said it was an awful idea, that doesn't mean DE has to find some middle ground between it.

 

DE has said, Founders' items are exclusive. Now, to be fair, they could word it better so as to avoid any technicalities, but, it's obvious they don't want to annoy anyone whom help found the game.

 

But, it's still "No". And even if they just wrote a paragraph of the word "No" on the topic, people would still try to wiggle through it and complain.

 

So, let them complain.

[Zaresin]

Considering that these are, for most intents and purposes, upgrades of the single versions, I would feel like that Founders would be ripped off of the value of their purchase. Spending that money (don't remember the prices) for an exclusive reward should be special and valued. Adding in what is essentially an upgrade in the game doesn't feel fair for those that decided to finanically support the game like that.

 

Besides, the concept that one has to pay over 100 dollars for a single version of a weapon to then find the dual version in game with only costing paitence and time doesn't seem logical.

 

I'd rather leave the Skana and Lato Prime not have any other versions, upgrades, alternates, or rereleases whatsoever. They paid for them as exclusive in a limited window of time, and that time ended long ago. Any reiteration, as said, defeats the point of exclusivity and the value of what was paid for.

 

That is like saying you bought a computer one month and a month later they were selling a better computer for the same price and you should get the better computer and still get to keep the original that you bought.....that doesn't quite work son.  Especially when the original agreement didn't include anything about upgrades.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Zaresin

[Kazzamo]

I'll be blunt, I hate exclusivity in general. Even more so when that exclusivity has stats to it since it just breeds some form of elitism and resentment, there's enough of that in the world without it being part of virtual pass times for fun. But exclusives exist so oh well. Now, this issue isn't about exclusive items no matter how much you try to make it be. Our single skana prime is the exclusive, our excal prime is exclusive, the possibility of ak/dual versions of founders weapons is something that is still on the table until DE itself states that it includes variants, if you have this proof please show it. What this really comes down to is elitism trying to claim what should not exist because they "feel" it's too much like something they have. Am I for these items showing up tomorrow? Probably not, down the road yes I am because there is no obligation for them /not/ to do it and *gasp* it might make more people happy than it makes mad, isn't that a horrid though, people being happy about something? 

Edited June 11, 2014 by Kazzamo

[Twilight053]

...Or, they release the Skana Prime and Lato Prime to public, but make the dual version exclusive to the founders...?

[Kazzamo]

They can't do that, they have a legal obligation to not re-release the single versions of those weapons. Now, if they did that many years from now I doubt enough founders would be around to really care and give them trouble, unless some people just want to be jerks that hadn't played the game in years but want a legal payout... which probably would happen knowing people.

[Zaresin]

...Or, they release the Skana Prime and Lato Prime to public, but make the dual version exclusive to the founders...?

 

Then we are back to where we are now...people don't want the weapons as frankly...the weapons just suck.  People want the mastery that they will never get from them especially when mastery starts meaning something again (focus system for instance).  

 

They can either release the duel and ak versions of the weapons in the marketplace for plat tying their mastery to their single counterparts and the same with reg excal.....

 

or 

 

they can remove the mastery from those items...one way everyone is happy....other way someone loses something.

[Mesyra]

 

Dual means 2, you are literally contradicting yourself.

 

 

nightbeats, You have been playing this game long enough to know that in the game its self, there is a difference between 2 latos, and the aklato. please use critical thinking. we all know what the ak weapons and dual weapons are in this game. yes 1+1=2, but its not lato + lato = aklato. its lato + lato = 2 lato.

[Garuda112]

That is like saying you bought a computer one month and a month later they were selling a better computer for the same price and you should get the better computer and still get to keep the original that you bought.....that doesn't quite work son.  Especially when the original agreement didn't include anything about upgrades.

Well on those grounds it makes complete sense. Maybe my original statement was too strong. However, I don't think that because it can be done because they are technically different weapons doesn't mean Founders would lose some of its inherent value. Despite that yes, the value is arbitrary it could still be of high worth to those that purchased it. Depends on who we ask.

 

I sure cannot think of an easy way to figure out a solution - so I suppose this is a discussion for the devs to make the judgement call and not us since they were the ones that created it. I don't know.

[NightBeats]

nightbeats, You have been playing this game long enough to know that in the game its self, there is a difference between 2 latos, and the aklato. please use critical thinking. we all know what the ak weapons and dual weapons are in this game. yes 1+1=2, but its not lato + lato = aklato. its lato + lato = 2 lato.

 

I can't make it any simpler VYR3. You make Aklato Prime and the game calls it Aklato Prime and in your hands are 2 Lato Primes, which is what Aklato Prime means. There is no getting around it. 1 + 1 = 2.

 

We have been at an impasse since the very beginning because so many people do not understand this and no matter how simply it is put, they don't get it. The thread will only continue to go round and round in circles.

[Mesyra]

 

I can't make it any simpler VYR3. You make Aklato Prime and the game calls it Aklato Prime and in your hands are 2 Lato Primes, which is what Aklato Prime means. There is no getting around it. 1 + 1 = 2.

 

We have been at an impasse since the very beginning because so many people do not understand this and no matter how simply it is put, they don't get it. The thread will only continue to go round and round in circles.

then where is my offhand pistol and off hand melee weapon slot in the equipment screen?

[NightBeats]

then where is my offhand pistol and off hand melee weapon slot in the equipment screen?

 

I don't even know how to respond to this. You quoted me but what you said has nothing to do with my quote.

 

We now live in a world where there are people who believe that Dual Skana Primes doesn't mean 2 Skana Primes and Aklato Prime doesn't involve the use of Lato Primes. Where is the logic?

[OniDax]

Then we are back to where we are now...people don't want the weapons as frankly...the weapons just suck.  People want the mastery that they will never get from them especially when mastery starts meaning something again (focus system for instance).  

 

They can either release the duel and ak versions of the weapons in the marketplace for plat tying their mastery to their single counterparts and the same with reg excal.....

 

or 

 

they can remove the mastery from those items...one way everyone is happy....other way someone loses something.

No, they don't want the mastery. If they wanted the mastery, any new weapon would do. They want the weapons because they look cool. It's not about having dual prime weapons. They want weapons that look like the lato prime and the skana prime. They first asked for the single variants., on other threads, and didn't get it. So now they ask for dual variants. . It's all about getting weapons that look the same.

[The_Lunatic_]

then where is my offhand pistol and off hand melee weapon slot in the equipment screen?

 

And there you go ladies and gents.

 

This is the response from somebody whom wants a "Civil Debate".

 

 

His idea of a "Civil debate" being one in which he repeats the same thing over and over again whilst struggling with basic mathematics.