Thoughts On Releasing The Aklato Prime And Dual Skana Prime [Please Be Civil And Constructive]

[Mithie]

yaa before that we had Founder(all ) vs Non founder  over ex prime

now we have Founder (grandmaster ) argument with Founder (< hunter) over limited weapon.

yup

 

why founder thing alway had problem.

There is no problem.

 

It happened, it's over, quit digging it back up.

[Aggh]

1. Okay. Even if we completely ignore the fact that aklatos are just 2 latos and dual skanas are just one normal sized skana and one stunted one, make a weapon like that but don't call it a dual skana. That's not hard, right? Or are you saying the only reason you want such a weapon is for the name and the name alone? Release a similar weapon (can't be that hard), and call it something else.

 

2. If you don't care about getting these, why are you so passionate about arguing for their release? What benefit could you possibly derive from that? Your only purpose seems to be going on a vendetta against founders.

 

3. Quit dodging the question. Explain to me why DE would have to do a complete 180 on the EXACT SAME BUSINESS MODEL that they're using now for prime access for doing THE EXACT SAME THING with dual founders weapons. 

1.)  Oh?  And how is that not a "loophole?"  Why on earth does DE have to have to jump through these hoops when they owe you nothing in regards to these weapons?

 

2.)Because all the people arguing against them are acting like ignorant entitled children.  I've yet to see a single rational argument as to why this should not be done. If DE has to make concessions like this once, they'll have to bang their head against the wall every other time they do something like this.  Why is this a problem, but letting normal users into the design council isn't one?

 

3.) I edited it into the prior post as you were responding.  Calm down please.

 

 

Because the prime access packs have allowed people to buy just the weapons in a cheaper package.  And all the weapons have been put into the void as well.  Think before you type more nonsense please.  DE chose to do this in part because of complaints about how the founders program was tiered.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Aggh

[Mithie]

1.)  Oh?  And how is that not a "loophole?"  Why on earth do they have to jump through these hoops when they owe you nothing in regards to these weapons?

 

2.)Because all the people arguing against them are acting like ignorant entitled children.  I've yet to see a single rational argument as to why this should not be done.

 

3.) I edited it into the prior post as you were responding.  Calm down please.

 

1. It's not about what they owe me. They already gave me what they owe me. It's about what they owe you. Why on earth do they have to deal with discomfort over their longest and most stalwart backers to jump through loopholes to appease you?

 

2. There's plenty. One key characteristic of ignorant children is ignoring what grown-ups are saying and think it's all nonsense. I don't agree with your position, but I certainly won't accuse those arguing against my position of being irrational.

 

3. Can you farm the prime extractors in the void? How about the Prime sydanas? 

[Letter13]

Just throwing this out there, but if Aklato Prime is ever in the works, then I would opt for having tha akimbo version as a gift to founders and the single version to be released for all. Sort of the reverse of what the OP proposes.

 

As for dual skana... Meh. I think I can speak for every founder who has it when I say that the Skana Prime is so bad that a dual version is not something to be that enthused about.

[Aggh]

1. It's not about what they owe me. They already gave me what they owe me. It's about what they owe you. Why on earth do they have to deal with discomfort over their longest and most stalwart backers to jump through loopholes to appease you?

 

2. There's plenty. One key characteristic of ignorant children is ignoring what grown-ups are saying and think it's all nonsense. I don't agree with your position, but I certainly won't accuse those arguing against my position of being irrational.

 

3. Can you farm the prime extractors in the void? How about the Prime sydanas? 

 

1.)  It most certainly is.  You wouldn't be making this argument if you didn't have either of those weapons.  Please, I'm sure if they put it up to a vote most founders wouldn't even care.  The staggering majority of them don't even post on the forums.  Worse than that, DE shouldn't have to cow to founders on anything that they've made no promises on.  You guys didn't pay for Aklato or Dual Skana prime.  Stop acting like you did.

 

2.)  That doesn't change the fact that your argument is irrational.  Contrary to what your teacher may have told you, there is such a thing as a wrong opinion.  Yours is wrong this time round.  I've refuted your every argument and the best you can managed now is "I'm rubber and you're glue" arguments? 

 

Unless you've found a way to justify your line of reasoning with actual facts, just sit down already.  School is over.  No gold star for you.

 

3.) Are they weapons?

 

 

 

Just throwing this out there, but if Aklato Prime is ever in the works, then I would opt for having tha akimbo version as a gift to founders and the single version to be released for all. Sort of the reverse of what the OP proposes.

 

As for dual skana... Meh. I think I can speak for every founder who has it when I say that the Skana Prime is so bad that a dual version is not something to be that enthused about.

But why does this have to be done for these weapons?  The fact that you're setting a double standard simply because the skana prime is bad (strange since lato is bad in every form as well) makes your reasoning seem dubious at best. 

Edited June 6, 2014 by Aggh

[CrimsonPorpoise]

Just throwing this out there, but if Aklato Prime is ever in the works, then I would opt for having tha akimbo version as a gift to founders and the single version to be released for all. Sort of the reverse of what the OP proposes.

 

As for dual skana... Meh. I think I can speak for every founder who has it when I say that the Skana Prime is so bad that a dual version is not something to be that enthused about.

 

Hmmm.... With that logic, DE can create a Founder's version of Excalibar Prime and can then toss the normal Excalibar Prime into the Void drop tables. Not sure how you founders would react to that beside giving this:

 

No.

 

Edited June 6, 2014 by NIXYNIXYNIX

[Azawarau]

Why are people complaining about the dual prime versions being released when theyll still be far outclassed by better weaponry

 

Wasnt that a defense for why it doesnt matter? Spin the table and things change really fast

[Letter13]

Hmmm.... With that logic, DE can create a Founder's version of Excalibar Prime and can then toss the normal Excalibar Prime into the Void drop tables. Not sure how you founders would react to that beside giving this:

I'd be fine if we were given a Dex Excalibur Prime as an exclusive founder gift while non founders were allowed to get normal Excalibur Prime.

 

I mean, the whole point of founders gifts was that they'd remain exclusive. The only acceptable way for them to become non-exclusive is if we, the holders of said gifts were given compensation equal to or greater than the value of said gifts. Since refunds or credit towards platinum/prime access would be a silly thing to ask for, the other option would be to have a different set of gifts get handed out. But that wouldn't solve this "problem" of exclusivity. 

 

At the end of the day, there is no real fix for this. Founder gifts will forever remain exclusive.

[Alpha56]

What about the Boar, Machete, Ether Daggers, Snipetron experience (12000xp) ?

[Aggh]

I'd be fine if we were given a Dex Excalibur Prime as an exclusive founder gift while non founders were allowed to get normal Excalibur Prime.

 

I mean, the whole point of founders gifts was that they'd remain exclusive. The only acceptable way for them to become non-exclusive is if we, the holders of said gifts were given compensation equal to or greater than the value of said gifts. Since refunds or credit towards platinum/prime access would be a silly thing to ask for, the other option would be to have a different set of gifts get handed out. But that wouldn't solve this "problem" of exclusivity. 

 

At the end of the day, there is no real fix for this. Founder gifts will forever remain exclusive.

 

They will remain exclusive regardless of whether dual version are released.  These are different weapons.  Even if they introduced the Aklato prime and the dual skana prime, Lato prime and Skana prime would remain exclusive.

 

The only thing remotely close to a fix for founders item's exclusivity is trading.  It doesn't change how exclusive they are, allows people that really want them to get them and generates new income for DE without reintroducing the items.  That is a win win.

 

 

 

What about the Boar, Machete, Ether Daggers, Snipetron experience (12000xp) ?

Who cares?  New weapons are constantly getting introduced and mastery behind rank 8 means next to nothing.  There's also a chance that at least the skinned versions of some of those weapons will be reintroduced at one point or another.  With each increase in maximum mastery, the advantage of discontinued/exclusive weapon mastery gets smaller and smaller.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Aggh

[Letter13]

Only real fix for founders items exclusivity is trading.  It doesn't change how exclusive they are and generates new income for DE without reintroducing the items.  That is a win win.

Big image in spoiler as a reply:

 

That's actually a very good idea. Allowing Founder gear to be tradeable.

 

I wonder how much platinum I could get for my Skana Prime... Considering it's really kind of bad.

[CrimsonPorpoise]

I'd be fine if we were given a Dex Excalibur Prime as an exclusive founder gift while non founders were allowed to get normal Excalibur Prime.

 

I mean, the whole point of founders gifts was that they'd remain exclusive. The only acceptable way for them to become non-exclusive is if we, the holders of said gifts were given compensation equal to or greater than the value of said gifts. Since refunds or credit towards platinum/prime access would be a silly thing to ask for, the other option would be to have a different set of gifts get handed out. But that wouldn't solve this "problem" of exclusivity. 

 

At the end of the day, there is no real fix for this. Founder gifts will forever remain exclusive.

So as long as the exclusivity of the Founder status is maintained, you'll be alright?

[Aggh]

Big image in spoiler as a reply:

 

That's actually a very good idea. Allowing Founder gear to be tradeable.

 

I wonder how much platinum I could get for my Skana Prime... Considering it's really kind of bad.

 

 

It's been brought up so many times I've really begun to wonder why DE hasn't done it by now.  The only possible problem I can see are the super hardcore "exclusive means exclusive" founders who don't want new kids to get founders gear no matter what. 

 

But honestly, the positives outweigh the negatives by quite a bit in regards to that imo.

 

Bwahaha.  Imagine the value of founders stuff on Ps4 once account migration goes live :|

Edited June 6, 2014 by Aggh

[.__Chiyo__.]

You founder guy just had to accept it in you heart that you are the Founder!

and release all of exclusive to people so you can be the leagend that give a peaceful to founder conflict.

 

xDDDDD

 

Just kidding , I don't care much about founder thing.

[Letter13]

So as long as the exclusivity of the Founder status is maintained, you'll be alright?

Well that's kind of the point of the limited time exclusive thank you gift from DE to the founders. So yes.

 

It's also more than that. DE has promised on multiple occasions that founder gear will remain absolutely 100% exclusive. For me personally I want them to stay true to their promise, because reneging on it would severely damage their relationship with the player base.

 

It's not a "I'm greedy and want to keep my exclusives to myself" as much as it is a "I'm going to hold the developers to their word" thing.

[Azawarau]

Big image in spoiler as a reply:

 

That's actually a very good idea. Allowing Founder gear to be tradeable.

 

I wonder how much platinum I could get for my Skana Prime... Considering it's really kind of bad.

Except theres never a way to get excali prime

[Mithie]

So as long as the exclusivity of the Founder status is maintained, you'll be alright?

 

Speaking for myself - it's not about the exclusivity but the exchange of trust between founders and DE.

 

I would be okay with releasing the dual skana and dual latos FOR FREE to whoever wants it as long as they don't render their single counterparts more useless than they already are.

 

But if the dual versions come out with superior stats, which so far has been the case, then I feel a part of the trust that was native to the founders program has been lost.

 

Again - I don't care about exclusivity. I want a solution that benefits the most people, and most people aren't founders, but I also want a solution that doesn't relegate the founder's program meaningless.

[Aggh]

 

Speaking for myself - it's not about the exclusivity but the exchange of trust between founders and DE.

 

I would be okay with releasing the dual skana and dual latos FOR FREE to whoever wants it as long as they don't render their single counterparts more useless than they already are.

 

But if the dual versions come out with superior stats, which so far has been the case, then I feel a part of the trust that was native to the founders program has been lost.

 

Again - I don't care about exclusivity. I want a solution that benefits the most people, and most people aren't founders, but I also want a solution that doesn't relegate the founder's program meaningless.

 

And whether there is a breach of trust in this case is based on your perception of where the line is drawn on the exclusivity founders items.

 

So in fact it is entirely about exclusivity even if you're not willing to admit it.

 

Nothing can render the single weapon versions more useless.  They're already completely useless as is.  The dual versions will be just as outclassed as well.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Aggh

[CrimsonPorpoise]

Well that's kind of the point of the limited time exclusive thank you gift from DE to the founders. So yes.

 

Hm. That's an interesting idea actually. All founders so far have been rather black and white with the issue (Or non-issue) of founder's items, so it's quite interesting to get another idea regarding it.

 

I don't know, the idea seems interesting enough to be discussed. Mind if I start another thread on this suggestion? It would mean you will have another thread to lock soon though.

[Mithie]

And whether there is a breach of trust in this case is based on your perception of where the line is drawn on the exclusivity founders items.

 

So in fact it is entirely about exclusivity even if you're not willing to admit it.

How is it about exclusivity?

I'm proposing that you release the dual latos and dual skanas, but make them comparable or inferior to the single lato and the single skana. You get your dual weapons, I keep my single versions, but my versions need to be just as viable as yours. In other words, if the dual versions aren't just straight up upgrades of their single counterparts, then I think it's fine.

 

My perception is, when I purchased the founders program, that the token I'm getting back in return is something unique. Down the line, there may be better weapons, but there will never be another version of the Lato prime or Skana prime.

You say dual latos and dual skanas are different weapons. Fine. Let's say I accept that, and I want to, I really do. I want more varieties of weapons. I want more content in my game. But I DON'T want the new weapons to be straight upgrades. I DON'T want them to invalidate the tokens which were provided to me for my trust in DE.

 

Does that sound fair?

[Aggh]

How is it about exclusivity?

I'm proposing that you release the dual latos and dual skanas, but make them comparable or inferior to the single lato and the single skana. You get your dual weapons, I keep my single versions, but my versions need to be just as viable as yours. In other words, if the dual versions aren't just straight up upgrades of their single counterparts, then I think it's fine.

 

My perception is, when I purchased the founders program, that the token I'm getting back in return is something unique. Down the line, there may be better weapons, but there will never be another version of the Lato prime or Skana prime.

You say dual latos and dual skanas are different weapons. Fine. Let's say I accept that, and I want to, I really do. I want more varieties of weapons. I want more content in my game. But I DON'T want the new weapons to be straight upgrades. I DON'T want them to invalidate the tokens which were provided to me for my trust in DE.

 

Does that sound fair?

 

So where would you be if lato prime and skana prime weren't exclusive?  Every single part of your argument finds its way back to your perceptions on that issue.  Don't know why you keep trying to deny it.

 

And no, it still sounds ridiculous.  Those tokens have been crappy bling weapons since they were first released.  It shouldn't matter what weapon invalidates it since they've both been bad for ages.  You're getting worked up over nothing.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Aggh

[(PSN)The_Moustache]

It's been brought up so many times I've really begun to wonder why DE hasn't done it by now.  The only possible problem I can see are the super hardcore "exclusive means exclusive" founders who don't want new kids to get founders gear no matter what. 

 

But honestly, the positives outweigh the negatives by quite a bit in regards to that imo.

 

Bwahaha.  Imagine the value of founders stuff on Ps4 once account migration goes live :|

I'd rather not. Our prices for things in the Trading channel are already higher than on PC. A RP chassis or Tranquil Cleave can go for around 40-100+ plat, easily. We already have to deal with enough problems as it is.

[Aggh]

I'd rather not. Our prices for things in the Trading channel are already higher than on PC. A RP chassis or Tranquil Cleave can go for around 40-100+ plat, easily. We already have to deal with enough problems as it is.

Tranquil cleave started out at 400-600 on PC (though admittedly it worked its way down to 200 and then 100p in about a week or so and has settled at around 20-40p atm).  Rhino prime chasis still sells for 40-60p.

 

DE has already repeatedly said they're never going to reintroduce founders exclusives so trading + account migration are really the only way PS4 will ever get them if at all.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Aggh

[Mithie]

So where would you be if lato prime and skana prime weren't exclusive?  Every single part of your argument finds its way back to your perceptions on that issue.  Don't know why you keep trying to deny it.

 

And no, it still sounds ridiculous.  Those tokens have been crappy bling weapons since they were first released.  It shouldn't matter what weapon invalidates it since they've both been bad for ages.  You're getting worked up over nothing.

 

Trust. 

 

It's not the exclusiveness of the weapons which I care about, it's the trust they represent from DE to the founder's program. I feel this is a point of view which you're struggling to understand or relate, which is why you keep shoehorning me into this exclusive peg.

 

You asked for a founder's opinion. I'm giving it to you. You can dismiss it. You can wave it away. But don't try to misrepresent what my reasons are for disagreeing with you.

 

In fact, you know what? Now that I think about it? I'd be fine with DE releasing all the founder's gear to the public, and give the founders exclusive syndana's instead.

 

[Aggh]

Trust. 

 

It's not the exclusiveness of the weapons which I care about, it's the trust they represent from DE to the founder's program. I feel this is a point of view which you're struggling to understand or relate, which is why you keep shoehorning me into this exclusive peg.

 

You asked for a founder's opinion. I'm giving it to you. You can dismiss it. You can wave it away. But don't try to misrepresent what my reasons are for disagreeing with you.

 

In fact, you know what? Now that I think about it? I'd be fine with DE releasing all the founder's gear to the public, and give the founders exclusive syndana's instead.

 

This is getting silly.  I think you're going to have to spell out for yourself.  Let's start out with this question: How is DE releasing Aklato prime and Dual Skana prime a breach of trust?

Edited June 6, 2014 by Aggh