Devstream 30: An Unexpectedly Large Blow To My Hopes For The Game

[Ryjeon]

I feel like you probably have valid criticism but I'm discouraged to read it since it seems so resistant and caustic. I think it's possible to criticize something without saying "what the flying F***? Are you serious?." I just feel like such a disrespectful tone detracts from the overall value of the criticism.

[Innocent_Flower]

I feel like you probably have valid criticism but I'm discouraged to read it since it seems so resistant and caustic. I think it's possible to criticize something without saying "what the flying F***? Are you serious?." I just feel like such a disrespectful tone detracts from the overall value of the criticism.

Why would a disrespectful tone detract from the value of criticism? Isn't it the opposite? Wouldn't a respectful tone tell the devs that they're mostly doing alright when they're not? 

[Rajko]

Why would a disrespectful tone detract from the value of criticism? Isn't it the opposite? Wouldn't a respectful tone tell the devs that they're mostly doing alright when they're not? 

No, Ryjeon had it the right way around.  Respectful criticism is good communication.  Disrespectful criticism is just insults + volume.  

 

I didn't really take away a disrespectful tone from the OP, but I can see how it's possible to get that from it.  I'm impressed with how civil this thread has remained, many others don't and lose their meaning as the shouting takes over.

[DiabolusUrsus]

I feel like you probably have valid criticism but I'm discouraged to read it since it seems so resistant and caustic. I think it's possible to criticize something without saying "what the flying F***? Are you serious?." I just feel like such a disrespectful tone detracts from the overall value of the criticism.

 

I want to say most of my actual feedback carries a perfectly respectful tone, because I think that's generally how one is supposed to give feedback when things are mostly going well. Sort of like https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/212182-melee-20-and-stances-what-it-should-have-been/'>this. 

 

At the same time, my overall tone in this post was intended to be part of the overall feedback. It was my way of trying to say, "look, I'm really not joking here. Trying to be serious." It's like when you raise your voice to get people's attention. They're more inclined to listen. 

 

Part of me is actually dismayed that this thread has gotten so much attention when the stuff I really want to be discussing and refining (see the previously linked thread) is acknowledged but glossed over. The unfortunate truth of the situation is that confrontational posts get more attention. The stuff that was covered in the livestream was severe enough to convince me to be confrontational about it, because I felt what I had to say needed to be heard. Thankfully, I was not alone in my thinking. 

Would it be nicer to be able to get the point across without being so emphatic about it? Yes. Would it have gotten nearly as much traction and recognition? No. There is rarely ever an appropriate time to sugarcoat things. 

Edited June 16, 2014 by DiabolusUrsus

[Beas7ie]

Totally agree, especially with melee and the boss fights.  The new bosses look nice but they suck and I hate fighting them.  They just spend most of the time in invisible shields and then when those are down the only way you can hurt them is to shoot a tiny little weak spot.  And now Nef Anyo is probably gonna be the same way.  Though it would be awesome if we can hijack his floating platform thing and beat him down like we did in Halo 2 when you fight the prophet.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

I still remember many livestreams ago that they didn't want Warframe to be nothing but a grindfest and I think it was Scott who said that and this was the week before Nekros was released. So instead of loosening up the RNG rates, it just ended up getting larger and larger and more and more diluted.

 

Good example of recent increases to grinding is the 600 Oxium in total that you need to craft all 3 of Zephyrs components and Oxium is hidden behind heavy RNG. I only found 2 Oxium after doing a 30 min survival on Earth the other day.

 

Today I only have 88 Oxium, I bet I could get 5 Lakoria Fangs first before I ever reach 600 Oxium to craft Zephyr.

 

Not that you don't have a point with how much the RNG/grinding sucks, but Earth isn't going to have much oxium at all owing to the fact that it's grineer. Oxium drops from a corpus enemy and very rarely from containers.

[Papa_Nuk_Nuk]

+1, Make DE see the truth!

PREACH BRUTHA!

[Zoid25]

The problem is that WF has no system or standard for balance. You can't tweak a number when you haven't even made a rough guideline of what it's "supposed" to be near.

 

Why is the MR2 Boltor Prime stronger than the MR 6 Flux? Why is the MR 6 grinlok weaker than the MR0 Tetra? Why is the most defensive frame also nearly the most mobile? There is no rhyme or reason. Why? Because as Diabolus just said, the people designing these disparate frames and weapons are doing so in a vacuum.

 

There appears to be little overarching vision, goals or guidelines to Warframe's design other than the Rule of Cool. If there is, we certainly haven't heard it.

This this and this. How is my Rhino Prime the same speed as a Loki? This is NOT okay. +1000 for notionphil and his analysis of balance issues pertaining to our weapons. I have a 5 forma'd Braton prime that I love to use but it still cant hold a candle to my Boltor Prime, so why bother? Why is my Boltor Prime which is all puncture destroy all infested at an incredible rate when the flux rifle which is all slash can barely do anything. They need to rework or improve the mastery system and it pertains to.

 

Notionphil is correct, there is little overarching vision in what I have seen from Warframe's design. Whenever any Lore is introduced I doubt it will be anything intricate and insightful. Most likely just attempting to "connect the dots". Which is sad because Lore is a huge part of my motivation to play a game. I really hope that Update 14 focuses on game mechanics rather than "Oh cool! New shiny things!".

[DirkDeadeye]

I feel like you probably have valid criticism but I'm discouraged to read it since it seems so resistant and caustic. I think it's possible to criticize something without saying "what the flying F***? Are you serious?." I just feel like such a disrespectful tone detracts from the overall value of the criticism.

 

It's attributed to over a year of talking to a brick wall. And the occasional Zeus like reactions we get from Steve. Sort of just happens, hell, you should've seen the forums for InfantryZone/InfantryOnline before and after they were bought destroyed by SOE, and assimilated into Planetsides development team.

[Madotsuki]

Please don't turn this into something it isn't. Or rather, something it's not supposed to be. I'm not particularly concerned about DE's ability to "fix" the game. I think they definitely have it in them, and this game is very far from "unsalvageable," or "hopeless." Sure, it needs to go through quite a few Overhaul 2.0s before it'll be close to passable, but I think that the community is largely to blame for how long it takes to push beneficial changes through. (Yes, balance this! No, don't balance that! More content! Hold off on content and fix this!) Just look at people starting up "hype trains" left and right before they even have a reason to expect something. 

I'm not angry with DE. I'm not "tired of their S#&$." Anyone who thinks that they aren't genuinely interested and personally invested in the success of this game is full of it. Even more so if they think that there is some sort of malicious usury going on here. This isn't a conspiracy thread. I am genuinely concerned that they have been reading our feedback, listening to our feedback, and completely misinterpreting which parts of our feedback are flexible and which parts are absolutely essential. I am unsettled by how little communication between separate departments there seems to be (the enemy design team is not the enemy balance team is not the weapon balance team, etc.)

 

I believe they can sort out the existing issues, provided they knuckle down and take a decisive stance on where they want to go with this game rather than pandering to back-and-forth sects within the community. I know it's sort of dodging your actual question, but I believe that DE will try. I don't think that they're complacent or unconcerned. I think that they are inept, and too hung up on modifying user-generated ideas to feel more "original." I don't want this to be a "bash on DE for not fixing things sooner" thread. I don't want this to be a "OMG DE are so incompetent and lazy" thread. I want this to be a "DE, please show us that you're listening, that you believe us when we say you have a problem, and reach out to us concerning how we can go about fixing it" thread. 

 

Sorry if I sounded particularly bitter, as I said before it was completely on a whim i even decided to get on the forums or write a reply, so i didn't particularly think that hard before writing. However, you said that DE would "try" to fix the game's serious problems. But seriously...HAVE they? Devs say: "We hate T4 keys", BOOM you get T4 keys now. Devs say "we don't want this game to be a grindfest", BOOM you get exponentially more grind. And other examples.

 

When I said the game needed a complete reset I was perfectly serious, because as I said before practically every mechanic needed a huge overhaul, equivalent to a complete reset even if it's step by step. Maybe "nothing being salvageable" was an exaggeration, but I suppose that has more to do with what I want the game to be, which is almost the polar opposite of what the game is now, which is ironic because my vision is actually based around players being space ninjas, with evasion and melee systems akin to a simplified DmC, lots of enemy variety and unique challenging bosses (as notionphil said, AI doesn't have to be smart, we just need VARIETY in the tools that the enemies use), weapons that are tiered BUT balanced within their tier and against enemies, stealth that actually works (think Dishonored with parkour instead of teleports), mods being a supportive upgrade system instead of the be-all-end-all, ripping out most rng in the loot system etc. Maybe I'm expecting too much out of an f2p, i dunno, but the point is I had dreams of what WF could become that were smashed with every update. I don't bash on DE for not fixing things sooner, because that implies they'll fix things in the future. I'm simply upset they made all the wrong decisions.

 

Believe me i WAS passionate about the game and what it could become. And regardless of how much I tell myself this game is dead and i should put it all behind me, I know i STILL cling on to fantasies that DE would miraculously turn this game around some day even though i shouldn't. I spent hours upon hours writing concept threads for mechanic overhauls and enemy/boss additions and overhauls, i wrote huge suggestion PMs based on forum suggestions and my own to Rebecca almost twice a month, I was a bloody warlord for a Moon Clan for crying out loud, AND won a livestream lottery at one point so i don't even have plat problems for the most part. And I still quit, because i was just that disappointed. Now I'm just glad that everyone else's optimism is dropping, in a sort of "that's what you get" kind of feeling towards DE I suppose.

 

So this is my take on the topic you want this thread to be about. I don't think DE are or have been listening, and even if they have it's only to what they want to hear and not what they need to hear. The only times when DE have admitted to the existence of problems is when the playerbase made huge angry fusses about it, such as when DE claimed the damage and armor system was working as intended which drew huge fire from the forums, and even then they decide to go their own way with solving the problems which usually end with screwing things up worse, it's like they never even did research on the forums considering the large amounts of good suggestions there were. They're not going to reach out to us concerning how they're going to fix things, never have never will. It's always "IT'S GONNA BE A SURPRISE GUYS", or an announcement about "this is how it's gonna be, deal with it" when the work is already pretty much done and set in stone, rendering feedback pointless. They even contradict themselves repeatedly, and are terrified of even letting players know their bloody drop rates, in a game that they themselves made entirely focused on loot farming! And in the end, your thread will have educated players on the core problems of WF's development or made them feel satisfied that someone else felt the same way they did and voiced their concerns for them, but it'll change nothing.

 

Take from what I said what you will, I'll be taking my leave now.

[Mirriky]

So many parts of warframe are out dated from closed beta that need to be fixed before they make new content.

[Loswaith]

Nice post, while I agree with everything in the OP, the bosses arent really that great an example (though the core is in it).  Unfortunatly those bosses shows tend to have a one way to fight with this approach.  IE with X setup you need to use Y approach to actually win.  Warframe on the other hand uses with any setup you need to use Z approach to win (whether your setup is good or bad for that approach), which is also bad.

 

A better way for bosses is with X setup there is W, Y or Z way to defeat the boss (if this was the OP's point it kinda gets missed showing the single take on for the boss videos), or with A setup you have B, C or D options to defeat them, while say with K setup you may have Y, B and R way to beat the boss.  In essence some choice in how you approach the fight that is coloured by your setup, maing both option worth while.

 

I personally like the shield bypassing, prior to damage 2.0 there was little point investing in heath mods and it was often ignored, the current system really makes both health and shields equally viable options to build with (bleed can be a bit over the top at times still though).

 

 

I quote: "But a player should still be able to succeed at bringing him down with a sword through a greater expenditure of effort and demonstration of skill."

It should be much (much, much) harder, but ultimately still feasible.

While this is an interesting aspect, I dont feel it should be the case (though the core concept is sound).  If you do take just melee against a Boss that perpetually flies, then thats just a bad choice, you chose not to take all your tools with you.   It actually makes for a world that feels more real rather than gamey (that said alot of flyers would have rest spaces which can leave for attack windows), if just sometimes because you didnt bring all your tools there is a downside.

Sure the tenno have huge ability with their tools, but at the end of the day, if you chose to leave your gun at home then tough luck, you got out-smarted by your opponent (that said with the ability to deflect and return projectiles pure melee wouldnt often be something you cant do), which makes them and your character feel more real in my opinion.

The lacking aspect isthe inability to leave the mission without killing the boss (obviously forfeting the boss reward) becuase you simply dont have the tools to win (kinda like you can with the G3/Harvester/Stalker) but keeping whatever you gained otherwise.

 

All that said, bosses shouldn't really be completly invunerable (very short invulnerability like Vor's bubble is fine).  A better way to have them is give them huge health pools (yea i know bullet sponges are a controvercial aspect but finish reading), however use their soft spots (sargus's cooling crystals for example) as masive damage boosts.  In this way the most viable option is to attack the soft spots (the battle would go much the same as now) however you still have the equivlent damage immunity with the huge health becuase you are only chipping away at it, but because you are still doing damage you will eventuially defeat the boss (this could work for prosecutors too).

 

Adding to that it would be great if lotus offered sugestions or hints to direct the player to attacking those points.  This is actually the bigest flaw for bosses now, the game never tells you that the bosses even have the soft spots (most arent at all even remotly obvious), leaving playes to think the boss is completly immune to damage.

 

Another aspect would improve (sugested by others) is moving criticals from a RNG feature, to a skill feature.  Warframe already has the ability to do larger damage for soft spots, this would be simply better to use as the critical system than the RNG way now.  It would add a skill apsect to the game as well as and move the onus on good damage for crits on to the player than simply be enemy dependant (snipers would get a huge boost from this too).

Status could happily be left as the RNG system it is at now, that way you have both the damage for skill options or damage for RNG option.

Edited June 17, 2014 by Loswaith

[DiabolusUrsus]

*snip*

 

1. I disagree. The first boss example I gave has literally one strategy (the purpose of the example was showing how to do a single-strategy boss well,) while the second boss has easily three or four viable strategies discounting the more outlandish methods and the "exploit" strategy. (The example was for showing that bosses didn't have to be designed in a way that catered to every different strategy, just that multiple strategies should be possible.) The point here is that it's perfectly fine for certain strategies to be substantially more difficult than others, provided they are available. 

 

2. Shield-bypassing has existed since long before Damage 2.0; it was just a lot less prevalent. I wouldn't mind the shield bypassing so much if it was avoidable. Toxic Ancients are okay since all you need to do is stay far enough away, but Venemous Eximi and random bullet bleed is not cool. In exchange for making it avoidable, the shield-bypassing damage could be made more powerful. In other words, more punishing of player screw-ups rather than punishing at random. 

 

For example, Toxin damage has no effect for 1.5 or 2 seconds, but once it procs the player takes more damage over time. This would accomplish two things: 

 

1. Toxic Ancients would still be very dangerous at melee ranges, but players wouldn't be completely unable to melee them without taking health damage. They would still be forced to resort to hit-and-run tactics which are not particularly practical against the Infested, leaving them at a decisive disadvantage in comparison to firearm-wielding compatriots. 

 

2. It would pre-emptively "fix" every single one of the toxic enemies they showed in the most recent livestream. They would no longer be infuriating and unfair because of their ability to rapidly saturate players with poison, just dangerous. This effect would also need to be applied to the player's toxin damage, making it less decisively overpowered against the Corpus. I don't think we should be able to completely bypass an entire Faction's main line of defense. 

 

3. I can see where you're coming from (and where I think ElZilcho before you was coming from, too,) but you're not going to win me over with arguments from realism. As I mentioned with the whole "not every strategy needs to be equal" thing from the example bosses, it should of course be much easier to simply use an automatic hitscan gun on an airborne Vay Hek. However, there is no reason that I, as an awesome space-ninja warrior-deity, should be forbidden from parkouring up the jungle walls or a nearby tree and jumping onto Hek's hovercarriage to bash his face in... aside from the fact that it simply takes less work to leave it as-is. 

 

For example... let's say players strike Hek 3 or 4 times with aerial slide-attacks while he is airborne to destabilize one of his thruster engines. This causes him to careen out of control and crash into the environment. The player then has a few vital seconds to get to wherever Hek crashes, and beat him up in melee a little bit while his engines come back online. If you've tried using melee on other aerial enemies you should know that this is no easy task, especially for Hek who moves erratically and has an energy disruption attack. It wouldn't even take much work on the part of the devs to implement. 

 

This is not about "I want to play one certain way, so bend over backwards to cater to my every whim." This is "If I need to kill this boss some random number of times in order to knock specific loot out of it, I'd rather not have to do it the same exact way every single time." Boss strategy variety carries a number of other benefits with it as well. I tried running Sargas Ruk with a Viral Soma for the first time a few days ago, and *insert inappropriate expletive here* was it boring. The fight took all of 30 seconds, with most of that time spent waiting for his weak points to open up. 

 

4. Boss durability would be better-implemented by reducing the player's ability to deal horrendous amounts of damage obscenely quickly. This is especially important because DE seems to like percent-scaling so much. The higher we drive the numbers, the more drastic the differences between modded and unmodded gear are going to be. A boss that is balanced to be durable against a maxed-Serration Ogris is going to be ridiculously powerful against anything less, and if the boss isn't balanced to be durable against a maxed-Serration Ogris it's going to be fragile to a trivial extent against most "end-game" weapons. 

 

What I'd really like to see is DE scrap percentage scaling and implement flat bonuses to both players and enemies. I think this would be a lot easier to balance, and it would narrow the gaps between low-tier, mid-tier, and high-tier weapons to a more reasonable rendition. It would also make scaling bosses to player level a lot easier, and the modding system a lot less confounding to new players. No more wondering about how percentages stack up, etc. All of a sudden, things like Concussion Rounds or Jagged Edge would no longer be useless on weapons with low or non-existent physical damage stats, etc. 

 

5. Lotus analysis of boss tactics and vulnerabilities sounds like it could be fairly interesting, provided it doesn't stray into the realm of game-guide styled "here is how you beat this boss." 

 

6. I agree that crits should not be RNG based. I disagree that status procs should be RNG based. RNG has no real place in true action combat, and I'm sticking to that. 

 

7. Thank you very much for taking the time to read and provide a thoughtful response. I appreciate it. 

[HurpadurpusRex]

There are no words I have to describe I literally need a book. DE = Dagny Taggart. Most of you = James Taggart.

 

This is a giant thread of who is John Galt. Build your railway DE.

 

 

“Do you know the hallmark of a second rater? It's resentment of another man's achievement. Those touchy mediocrities who sit trembling lest someone's work prove greater than their own - they have no inkling of the loneliness that comes when you reach the top. The loneliness for an equal - for a mind to respect and an achievement to admire. They bare their teeth at you from out of their rat holes,thinking that you take pleasure in letting your brilliance dim them - while you'd give a year of my life to see a flicker of talent anywhere among them. They envy achievement, and their dream of greatness is a world where all men have become their acknowledged inferiors. They don't know that that dream is the infallible proof of mediocrity, because that sort of world is what the man of achievement would not be able to bear. They have no way of knowing what he feels when surrounded by inferiors - hatred? no, not hatred, but boredom - the terrible, hopeless, draining, paralyzing boredom. Of what account are praise and adulation from men whom you don't respect? Have you ever felt the longing for someone you could admire? For something, not to look down at, but up to?"
"I've felt it all my life," DE said.”
― Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

[DiabolusUrsus]

*Discretionary Snip*

 

So, are you gonna actually back up your accusations of my (or anyone else's) incompetence, or are you gonna continue to hide your actual opinion behind a contextually obscure literary reference as part of a hollow attempt at appearing educated? 

 

Because I'm definitely willing to listen. 

 

How exactly are you going to justify claiming that all we're doing here is resenting DE's glorious artistic achievement when what we're despairing over is the apparent futility of our genuine efforts to help them improve it? Keeping in mind, of course, that they continually claim to want our help with improving it? 

 

Or is your argument truly just as half-baked as your criticism? 

[Loswaith]

...

1. This is why the video's fail to make your point.  They show one strategy, not many alternate ones (compare those to a warframe boss battle video and warframe bosses look good too).  Only one strategy is the issue we have now, the benefit we have is that it will work with any kitted out build where you have all your tools.  Reguardless of a single strategy done well (some are in warframe some arent), is if you play it enough times it is still boring, even now the first 3-5 times (once you figured out what to do) is fun after that its a yawn (which I gather is the point your making).

 

3. As to realism, Im not talking in the real world sence, I'm talking about realism within the setting, thus the immersion and believeability of the setting.  A boss intelligent enough to turn themselves into a flying cyborg, like Hek does, isnt going to sit around at low altitudes where a tenno can just run up a wall/branch/whatever and whack him with their melee weapon of choice (he is going to keep his altitude advantage).  Especially since he used the tenno technology to make himself the cyborg.  It may make melee viable for every frame but it does so at the expence of Hek's percieved intelligence.  That said a warframe like Zeypher (among others) do have the extra tools to combat that (as she can also effectivly fly), so in her case she could effectively achieve the melee result, while Hek's inteligence isn't insulted at the same time (atleast where his arena is now).

This does allow much of what you are saying as well as keeping the realism of the setting.  Gameplay and setting realism can co-inside, they arent mutually exclusive. (throwing an enemy at a window to break said window is a case where the gameplay is mutually exclusive to the setting realism of the far more efficient and effective way by whacking the window with your own weapon)

Edited June 17, 2014 by Loswaith

[DiabolusUrsus]

1. This is why the video's fail to make your point.  They show one strategy, not many alternate ones (compare those to a warframe boss battle video and warframe bosses look good too).  Only one strategy is the issue we have now, the benefit we have is that it will work with any kitted out build where you have all your tools.  Reguardless of a single strategy done well (some are in warframe some arent), is if you play it enough times it is still boring, even now the first 3-5 times (once you figured out what to do) is fun after that its a yawn (which I gather is the point your making).

 

3. As to realism, Im not talking in the real world sence, I'm talking about realism within the setting, thus the immersion and believeability of the setting.  A boss intelligent enough to turn themselves into a flying cyborg, like Hek does, isnt going to sit around at low altitudes where a tenno can just run up a wall/branch/whatever and whack him with their melee weapon of choice (he is going to keep his altitude advantage).  Especially since he used the tenno technology to make himself the cyborg.  It may make melee viable for every frame but it does so at the expence of Hek's percieved intelligence.  That said a warframe like Zeypher (among others) do have the extra tools to combat that (as she can also effectivly fly), so in her case she could effectively achieve the melee result, while Hek's inteligence isn't insulted at the same time (atleast where his arena is now).

This does allow much of what you are saying as well as keeping the realism of the setting.  Gameplay and setting realism can co-inside, they arent mutually exclusive. (throwing an enemy at a window to break said window is a case where the gameplay is mutually exclusive to the setting realism of the far more efficient and effective way by whacking the window with your own weapon)

 

1. Except the commentary both preceding and following said videos elaborates on additional strategies that are relevant to the topic at hand. Beyond that we are in agreement concerning strategic boss design. 

 

3. Hek does fly around at altitudes that are within *relatively* immediate reach through parkour. He just doesn't have a hitbox that registers melee damage. You make a pretty good point about Zephyr having an easier time of getting into melee range with Hek, so why should he be completely immune to melee? An intelligent decision doesn't need to play out flawlessly to be intelligent, and a poor decision doesn't have to be a guaranteed failure to be a poor decision. What I'm suggesting doesn't involve making Hek fly lower so that he is easier to hit. It only involves adding contextually appropriate hitboxes to introduce alternative combat strategies that add variety and player choice into the game after they were removed. 

 

The old Vay Hek was a much simpler and more aesthetically drab boss character. I still had more fun fighting the old Vay Hek than I do fighting the new Vay Hek because I wasn't strong-armed into fighting him the exact same way every single time. 

[Renegade343]

The Eximi suffer from the same problem. They're the same old trash mobs that are a little bit more difficult to kill, and simply have the most annoying abilities available to them stuck on with duct tape. Venemous Ancients that can proc poison on you from across the room make the game harder, sure, but they don't make it more fun. They make it frustrating and arduous simply by virtue of how decisively simple they are. The only viable solution is to kill them faster. How imaginative. Parasitic Eximus? Wow, I'm out of energy. Still just going to shoot it. Fire Eximus? Wow, damaging knockdown attack with a huge AOE. Still just going to shoot it. Blast Eximus? Wow, a Grineer Heavy that looks like a MOA. Still just going to shoot it. The problem here is that the only viable way to counter the "challenges" the Eximi bring to the table is to kill them faster. You can't dodge them. You can't block them. You can only kill them before they proc, and that is indescribably dull. 

Currently solving that in response to the cheap mechanics of the Shock Eximus. Do you want to see it?

[DiabolusUrsus]

Currently solving that in response to the cheap mechanics of the Shock Eximus. Do you want to see it?

 

Sure, I'd love to. 

[Renegade343]

Sure, I'd love to. 

The link is here (but please be reminded that it will constantly change and it is currently WIP): 

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/247791-enemy-eximus-overhaul-suggestions-now-with-guardian-eximus-rework/

[DiabolusUrsus]

The link is here (but please be reminded that it will constantly change and it is currently WIP): 

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/247791-enemy-eximus-overhaul-suggestions-now-with-guardian-eximus-rework/

 

I've given it a cursory look-over, and I have to see I'm glad to see the inclusion of power-resistances. It looks interesting, but please allow me to give it a more thorough read when it is no longer close to 3:00 AM where I am. 

[Renegade343]

I've given it a cursory look-over, and I have to see I'm glad to see the inclusion of power-resistances. It looks interesting, but please allow me to give it a more thorough read when it is no longer close to 3:00 AM where I am. 

It is? What GMT are you in?

[HurpadurpusRex]

So, are you gonna actually back up your accusations of my (or anyone else's) incompetence, or are you gonna continue to hide your actual opinion behind a contextually obscure literary reference as part of a hollow attempt at appearing educated? 

 

Because I'm definitely willing to listen. 

 

How exactly are you going to justify claiming that all we're doing here is resenting DE's glorious artistic achievement when what we're despairing over is the apparent futility of our genuine efforts to help them improve it? Keeping in mind, of course, that they continually claim to want our help with improving it? 

 

Or is your argument truly just as half-baked as your criticism? 

Atlas shrugged is not obscure, and education seems to be what you are concerned about.

 

Your backing up my accusations better than i feel i am able.

I mean what I say directly, so it would seem listening is not generating a favorable result for you.

 

I justify it by none of you being offered a job working for DE. your only shown skill set 18 pages of disappointments, wearing the corpse of help like some deranged hat.

 

 

So if your attempting to help me by criticizing my criticism in the same fashion that you believe DE finds invaluable I would prefer you didn't and leave it half baked.

[CBAROG]

Atlas shrugged is not obscure, and education seems to be what you are concerned about.

 

Your backing up my accusations better than i feel i am able.

I mean what I say directly, so it would seem listening is not generating a favorable result for you.

 

I justify it by none of you being offered a job working for DE. your only shown skill set 18 pages of disappointments, wearing the corpse of help like some deranged hat.

 

 

So if your attempting to help me by criticizing my criticism in the same fashion that you believe DE finds invaluable I would prefer you didn't and leave it half baked.

WAT? I don't understand what you want to say.

[HurpadurpusRex]

WAT? I don't understand what you want to say.

I already said what i wanted to say. just not in what you quoted. I just sometimes respond even when I'd rather not. A feeling that I'm sure I'm not alone in.