I Think It's Time Boltor Prime Stops Rendering ~130 Weapons Obsolete

[Chroia]

Boltor Prime?

Who uses that, in this day and age?

 

I only ever use it to burst down Zanuka when I'm farming for Sensors, and that only because it does a better job of it than my Boar Prime. :/

Otherwise I'll stick with my Amprex, thank you very much.

[Azawarau]

I think we're having a mis-communication issue here. All the better rifles are good up until no rifle is good anymore. At that point, nothing is good but bows and launchers. If you're going that far, you're running 4X Corrosive Projection and the mobs are CC locked. You don't build for status/elemental combos/anything but straight damage on the Dread and you definitely shouldn't be missing shots. You don't build status for anything at that point, you just run viral/heat on weapons that have space for more +dmg mods... 

 

All of which is besides the point! Braton Burston Boltor doesn't matter! They're good/great modded properly until they're not then they're useless and there is practically no difference between them in terms of when that happens! I don't understand what you're not understanding here. An electric blanket ruins a candy bar but does nothing to steel. Lave ruins a candy bar and ruins steel. All full auto rifles are electric blankets. Make sense now? All buff/nerf threads for auto rifles these weapons are pointless because as a weapon they don't hold a candle to other options. The Scindo P doesn't copter as well as Dakra P but they're both trash compared to Zoren/Ichor/Amphis/Scoliac. A motorcycle is faster than a moped but they're both snails compared to a jet. A boulder is bigger than a pebble but both are jokes compared to a mountain. Is this more clear?

Only bows and launchers?

 

Melee is alot stronger than you credit

 

L prime

 

Also

 

within game levels most full auto rifles fall out in ammo efficiency because they arent getting enough damage out anymore or are relatively slow to kill

 

Boltor overkills by comparison

 

Balance needs to happen

[Gahrzerkire]

The Boltor Prime needs to be nerfed a bunch.

 

OR IT NEEDS TO BE RANK LOCKED LIKE THE SOMA BUT BECUASE IT OUTCLASSESS IT IN EVERY WAY IT NEEDS TO BE RANK LOCKED AT SOMEHTING LIKE 10 OR 15 BECUASE THE GUN IS F!#$IN RIDICULOUS AND WAY TO POWERFUL FOR NOOBS.

 

I personally avoid the boltor P becuase it is too powerful. and I have it 5 formad. Get the sucker out of the beginning game, That gunneeds respect and currently players arent respecting it so either nerf that sh#$ or rank lock it.

 

IT IS KILLING THE GAME.

 

ITS TOO POWERFUL FOR ANYONE SUB TIER 8 MINIMUM IDEALLY T10 LIKE THE DRAGON NIKANA.

 

WHAT ADVANTAGE DO I A RANK 13 HAVE OVER SOME RANK 3 WITH  A BP? WELL OTHER THEN A BUNCH OF WEPS NOTHING. PLEASE DE NERF IT.

[ndantony]

 

The Boltor Prime needs to be nerfed a bunch.

 

OR IT NEEDS TO BE RANK LOCKED LIKE THE SOMA BUT BECUASE IT OUTCLASSESS IT IN EVERY WAY IT NEEDS TO BE RANK LOCKED AT SOMEHTING LIKE 10 OR 15 BECUASE THE GUN IS F!#$IN RIDICULOUS AND WAY TO POWERFUL FOR NOOBS.

 

I personally avoid the boltor P becuase it is too powerful. and I have it 5 formad. Get the sucker out of the beginning game, That gunneeds respect and currently players arent respecting it so either nerf that sh#$ or rank lock it.

 

IT IS KILLING THE GAME.

 

ITS TOO POWERFUL FOR ANYONE SUB TIER 8 MINIMUM IDEALLY T10 LIKE THE DRAGON NIKANA.

 

WHAT ADVANTAGE DO I A RANK 13 HAVE OVER SOME RANK 3 WITH  A BP? WELL OTHER THEN A BUNCH OF WEPS NOTHING. PLEASE DE NERF IT.

Nah. It's good as it is. No nerfing. Just need to buff other weapons up a little bit more.

Rank lock, as unlockable by tier/rank 8? I think that's pretty lame; and to use it as incentive for higher tier is even worse. At this point about everybody has already own one, including you; granted, at earlier rank. Hypocrite much, it seems. And don't you think it's better that we ask DE to give more incentive for higher ranks instead of locking the weapon that everybody already have?

 

And what games are you playing that it's killing? Perspective much? And avoiding it because too much power? You must jesting. Yeah, I'm so glad I have just picked up a $100 bill on the sidewalk because some guy in front of me suddenly felt a pang of justice and refused to pick it up when he saw it before me.

 

I would in fact love to use boltor, soma and rhino forever if I don't care must for mastery points or boredom. Actually, I also enjoy other frames and their abilities and other cool weapons, too; but never see those above as issue, even when they are in my squad and I'm not using ones. Maybe and just maybe, if I get killed in pvp by someone with rhino and boltor too much or stealing too many of my kills in pve, I may change my mind and come back here crying out for "nerfing" or "balancing"...

[Racter]

Only bows and launchers?

 

Melee is alot stronger than you credit

 

L prime

 

Also

 

within game levels most full auto rifles fall out in ammo efficiency because they arent getting enough damage out anymore or are relatively slow to kill

 

Boltor overkills by comparison

 

Balance needs to happen

 

Melee will get you instantly killed at the point rifles fall off + you need to bring actual coptering weapons like Dual Ichors/Zoren/Scoliac/Amphis instead of a half baked copter (Dakra P with Crimson Dervish) or terrible/no coptering Dragon Nikana/Scindo P. I already mentioned the Latron Prime being a slight exception. I thought my list of examples at the bottom of my last post would make this more clear but you either don't understand what I'm saying, have zero experience in long void missions or don't care and want to cry nerf all day. Have you done an endless mission with any of these weapons to the point that they fall off?

 

I have used all of these. All of these will absolutely decimate any normal mission, and any non endless Void mission. In T4 survival, with 4x Corrosive Projection, a 4 Forma Boltor P runs out of steam 70-80 minutes. 5 Forma Braton P runs out of steam around 50 minutes. 4 Forma Burston P lasts around 70 minutes. 2&3 Forma Latron P and Latron W last 75-90 minutes. 4 Forma Soma lasts around an hour. There is a large gap on paper. In practice, there is almost no difference. If anything I would say buff the Braton P up to around 30 slash and around 15-20 puncture and all the "end game" rifles would be pretty well lined up. Of course the huge stack of other weapons suck in comparison, they're supposed to. Primes should always be stronger than random other weapons progression and lore wise, and progression wise it would make zero sense for newer gear to not be stronger, especially since T4 was somewhat on the horizon when the Boltor Prime came out.

 

The only thing that can even be argued about the Boltor is that it's mastery requirement is too low, and I would be inclined to agree with that. However, if you know what you're doing, you can hit mastery rank 8 in less than two weeks, so it's not like raising it to 8 would even present a substantial gate to prevent new players from getting it. Not too mention newer players are typically not sitting on a stack of forma and fusion cores to max out all the mods needed to make any of these weapons this powerful. I cleared 2/3 of the star map with an unpotato'd unforma'd regular Braton with no good mods and the other third with a MK1 Braton, most of which was done with no Serration at all. Clearly just about everything in the game is overkill for random star chart content. The only thing that matters balance wise IMO are endless Void missions and the Boltor Prime is not at all amazing in them.

[xkillo32]

Latron Prime is not even remotely competitive with Dread/Penta in terms of raw damage. Not at all saying it's a bad weapon (I have 3-5 forma in both my Prime and my Wraith) but be realistic. Dread can damage cap AMD in 1-2 shots, Latron can't even come close to that. The ammo efficiency isn't the issue so much as the damage just not cutting it anymore.

you can't crit on an AMD tho

atleast that's what the wiki said

never tried it myself

[AlphaHorseman]

How's about lets not nerf stuff, to make sure people on the side of non-nerfing aren't angry. To compensate, lets buff up other weapons stat-wise so that vanilla players can see "ohh look it does the kinda same damage as that other gun I have".

 

It's also important to note that the mechanics of the weapons are different. Braton is burst after all, Paris is single shot, Boltor Prime is the vanilla aim and shoot. Though I'd agree its a high DPS weapon, I don't think its due for a nerf (c'mon, everyone hates nerfs, its only the haters that like them, and why feed the haters?). I think its better to stress and emphasize the mechanics and stats of other weapons to be on-par with the Boltor Prime.

 

It's also important to note that Boltor Prime is a top tier weapon. As such of course it's gonna wreck most anything in-game, but that's because our enemies are pretty much bullet sponges; nothing really different across the board other than looks and what they shoot/hit you with. Until we can get enemies with interesting mechanics (or mechanics that make fighting them more than just an aim and shot move), nerfing this gun isn't going to make things better.

 

DE Has stated that there may be weapon tiers in the future, in a DevStream I believe. So the Primes will of course be Top Tier, and each will shine through in different situations. The Boltor Prime at the moment is the "jack of all trades and master of none" because although it can dish out the damage over time, per shot it isn't anywhere near the Paris, Dread, Penta, and other high damage weapons. Again though, I must note that these weapons have different game mechanics, and shouldn't be put side by side because they aren't in the same class.

 

The other tiers I have no idea, but I'd guess that Wraith, Vandal, and Dragon will be a close second to the Prime Tier or even part of Top Tier. The other weapons will have to be discussed and decided by DE themselves. We'll most likely see these weapons being distributed by Mastery Rank levels, which would help a lot. Though I also do understand why DE hasn't locked Prime items behind Mastery Rank yet; its because they don't want to block off new players from getting them. 

Edited October 3, 2014 by AlphaHorseman

[Dasmir]

How's about lets not nerf stuff, to make sure people on the side of non-nerfing aren't angry. To compensate, lets buff up other weapons stat-wise so that vanilla players can see "ohh look it does the kinda same damage as that other gun I have".

 

Becouse thats how power creep works ?

 

-Release stronger weapons.

-Buff enemies.

-Buff weapons.

-Release stronger weapons.

 

and the cycle never ends.

[Azawarau]

Melee will get you instantly killed at the point rifles fall off + you need to bring actual coptering weapons like Dual Ichors/Zoren/Scoliac/Amphis instead of a half baked copter (Dakra P with Crimson Dervish) or terrible/no coptering Dragon Nikana/Scindo P. I already mentioned the Latron Prime being a slight exception. I thought my list of examples at the bottom of my last post would make this more clear but you either don't understand what I'm saying, have zero experience in long void missions or don't care and want to cry nerf all day. Have you done an endless mission with any of these weapons to the point that they fall off?

 

I have used all of these. All of these will absolutely decimate any normal mission, and any non endless Void mission. In T4 survival, with 4x Corrosive Projection, a 4 Forma Boltor P runs out of steam 70-80 minutes. 5 Forma Braton P runs out of steam around 50 minutes. 4 Forma Burston P lasts around 70 minutes. 2&3 Forma Latron P and Latron W last 75-90 minutes. 4 Forma Soma lasts around an hour. There is a large gap on paper. In practice, there is almost no difference. If anything I would say buff the Braton P up to around 30 slash and around 15-20 puncture and all the "end game" rifles would be pretty well lined up. Of course the huge stack of other weapons suck in comparison, they're supposed to. Primes should always be stronger than random other weapons progression and lore wise, and progression wise it would make zero sense for newer gear to not be stronger, especially since T4 was somewhat on the horizon when the Boltor Prime came out.

 

The only thing that can even be argued about the Boltor is that it's mastery requirement is too low, and I would be inclined to agree with that. However, if you know what you're doing, you can hit mastery rank 8 in less than two weeks, so it's not like raising it to 8 would even present a substantial gate to prevent new players from getting it. Not too mention newer players are typically not sitting on a stack of forma and fusion cores to max out all the mods needed to make any of these weapons this powerful. I cleared 2/3 of the star map with an unpotato'd unforma'd regular Braton with no good mods and the other third with a MK1 Braton, most of which was done with no Serration at all. Clearly just about everything in the game is overkill for random star chart content. The only thing that matters balance wise IMO are endless Void missions and the Boltor Prime is not at all amazing in them.

If your speaking about after end game on infinite missions that dosnt matter

 

But either way youre wrong

 

Melee can outdamage even the boltor but has a way higher risk factor to it

 

I use the Serro to beat the boltor users

 

No coptering at all

 

 

 

Nah. It's good as it is. No nerfing. Just need to buff other weapons up a little bit more.

Rank lock, as unlockable by tier/rank 8? I think that's pretty lame; and to use it as incentive for higher tier is even worse. At this point about everybody has already own one, including you; granted, at earlier rank. Hypocrite much, it seems. And don't you think it's better that we ask DE to give more incentive for higher ranks instead of locking the weapon that everybody already have?

 

And what games are you playing that it's killing? Perspective much? And avoiding it because too much power? You must jesting. Yeah, I'm so glad I have just picked up a $100 bill on the sidewalk because some guy in front of me suddenly felt a pang of justice and refused to pick it up when he saw it before me.

 

I would in fact love to use boltor, soma and rhino forever if I don't care must for mastery points or boredom. Actually, I also enjoy other frames and their abilities and other cool weapons, too; but never see those above as issue, even when they are in my squad and I'm not using ones. Maybe and just maybe, if I get killed in pvp by someone with rhino and boltor too much or stealing too many of my kills in pve, I may change my mind and come back here crying out for "nerfing" or "balancing"...

 

 

 

Whats the point in buffing everything else exactly?

[ndantony]

Whats the point in buffing everything else exactly?

LOL. Didn't think I need to answer that, but since you've brought it up twice.

If they don't give me as good a "kick" as one or few weapons, then I don't see why not. I'm sure you're ready for this answer so to fire away with rhymes and reasons like in other dozen posts. However, it's a good enough justification for me and I'm sure, too, for many thinking alike, as yours to yours, and that I am hard-headedly stand by.

[Kruglov]

As someone who loved the old boltor, and fell in love with the boltor prime I'd be fine with a small nerf.

 

That said, I'd also like to see all the other weapons in the game get damage boosts as well.

 

I really think the best nerf to weapons/abilities in this game is to simply buff the lackluster ones.

It worked for Oberon and Nova. Let's apply that same mindset to everything else.

 

Rather than ask: "Why is boltor prime so strong?"

We should ask: "Why is my spectra/grakata/miter not strong ENOUGH?"

 

Buffs.

Not nerfs.

[Azawarau]

Yes, I am of opinion for buffing up other weapons! And I am proud to stand up for this belief as well!! 

 

...in fact, I have mention about this on other posts.

 

Nerfing boltor may seem the easiest solution, and the nerfing enthusiasts love to use this in their arguments, but not necessarily the right one. Nor a solution that would help progressing the game or making the game as enjoyable. It seems to me it is an old generation of conservative thinking by gamers. But really, that how I believe the game should progress. And in fact, we need more cool weapon like bortor, or even a soma; some is also as good or close and I love it too; and I hope soma prime will be even better.

Im gonna break this down for you

 

You state that nerfing may be the easiest solution but not the right one and then continue with saying that it wont make the game enjoyable with no foundation or reason, calling the opposing side conservative thinking with no foundation or reason, saying you believe the game should progress that way with no foundation or reason, and calling the boltor/soma cool which is typically used to describe aesthetics rather than function/DPS

 

You dont have a base for any argument

 

You just say opinion and label the opposing side

 

Now either youre new here, not very good at this, or have a large bias

 

Unless you have a reason why buffing every weapon, which would require the enemies and powers to be buffed up to par, is better than nerfing a single weapon id suggest not bumping your post count further

 

LOL. Didn't think I need to answer that, but since you've brought it up twice.

If they don't give me as good a "kick" as one or few weapons, then I don't see why not. I'm sure you're ready for this answer so to fire away with rhymes and reasons like in other dozen posts. However, it's a good enough justification for me and I'm sure, too, for many thinking alike, as yours to yours, and that I am hard-headedly stand by.

Opinion is a good enough justification

 

Bias is as well i suppose?

 

As someone who loved the old boltor, and fell in love with the boltor prime I'd be fine with a small nerf.

 

That said, I'd also like to see all the other weapons in the game get damage boosts as well.

 

I really think the best nerf to weapons/abilities in this game is to simply buff the lackluster ones.

It worked for Oberon and Nova. Let's apply that same mindset to everything else.

 

Rather than ask: "Why is boltor prime so strong?"

We should ask: "Why is my spectra/grakata/miter not strong ENOUGH?"

 

Buffs.

Not nerfs.

I was with you at first but you lost me

 

We need buffs and nerfs

 

But among the nerfs the boltor stands out

[ndantony]

Im gonna break this down for you

You state that nerfing may be the easiest solution but not the right one and then continue with saying that it wont make the game enjoyable with no foundation or reason, calling the opposing side conservative thinking with no foundation or reason, saying you believe the game should progress that way with no foundation or reason, and calling the boltor/soma cool which is typically used to describe aesthetics rather than function/DPS

You dont have a base for any argument

You just say opinion and label the opposing side

Now either youre new here, not very good at this, or have a large bias

Unless you have a reason why buffing every weapon, which would require the enemies and powers to be buffed up to par, is better than nerfing a single weapon id suggest not bumping your post count further

Opinion is a good enough justification

Bias is as well i suppose?

I was with you at first but you lost me

We need buffs and nerfs

But among the nerfs the boltor stands out

I guess, take it as you will, whatever floats your boat.

[SirSlayer]

There never was any balance to begin with...

[Racter]

If your speaking about after end game on infinite missions that dosnt matter

 

But either way youre wrong

 

Melee can outdamage even the boltor but has a way higher risk factor to it

 

I use the Serro to beat the boltor users

 

No coptering at all

LOL So this whole time you've been crying because its OP in the star map! Everything is. What a joke /thread

[UnknownDeath666]

Boltor Prime might have tremendous power but you forma the Soma it is comparable if not better when built for critical damage and chance so saying that it is a crutch doesnt make any sense to me when there are two weapons that are fully automatic with the ability to kill what ever it needs to. 

[(PSN)Veg1ta]

Boltor Prime might have tremendous power but you forma the Soma it is comparable if not better when built for critical damage and chance so saying that it is a crutch doesnt make any sense to me when there are two weapons that are fully automatic with the ability to kill what ever it needs to. 

I have both at max potential , best builds every mod maxed, my fav is the soma cause its more old school, but am sorry boltor p better, theres no contest.

[taiiat]

this thread is still going? interesting.

Boltor Prime might have tremendous power but you forma the Soma it is comparable if not better when built for critical damage and chance so saying that it is a crutch doesnt make any sense to me when there are two weapons that are fully automatic with the ability to kill what ever it needs to. 

if you were to get 100% Headshots with Soma, it would still do less Damage than BoltorP does with only body shots.

even the extra 2x from Crit Headshots doesn't bring them together.

[TEZAQ]

If you less damage you can always use it without mods then. 

[Azawarau]

LOL So this whole time you've been crying because its OP in the star map! Everything is. What a joke /thread

Trolling wont get you anywhere

 

Star chart and void T 4s

 

Anything infinite content beyond lvl 45-50 shouldnt be balanced around

 

Boltor Prime might have tremendous power but you forma the Soma it is comparable if not better when built for critical damage and chance so saying that it is a crutch doesnt make any sense to me when there are two weapons that are fully automatic with the ability to kill what ever it needs to. 

Youre wrong

[Quizel]

Youre wrong

**Computations don't factor in the wind up of soma, but doesn't take too long.**

 

Well, Soma going for head shots does out perform Boltor Prime going for head shots by about 15-30% burst/sustained dps for builds I'd use in the void vs C heavy gunners (0 and 100% CP aura). 

 

Boltor Prime: ser, hc, split c, 300% corrosive/viral (4 mods), and shred

Soma: ser, split c, ps&vs, hammer shot, 180% corrosive or viral, and shred

 

With that said, I'd say BP is better because of the fact it's fairly close in dps when going for hs's but does better against body shots (44 to 55% better) . However, Soma is hit scan with more dependable accuracy (since hc isn't being used for this build). I highly value accuracy and hit scan.

 

With all of that said, I'd say the two weapons are about equal performance wise end game. 

 

Everyone is entitled to their opinion though. Even the builds I used for comparison is largely subjective. Some would say BP with HC can't be even modeled for head shots considering the accuracy loss and flight time. With this point of view, Soma is capable of waaaayyyy more paper dps than BP (~175% more). 

 

With all of that said, I'd still say the two weapons are about equal performance wise end game. Head shots vs some enemy types is not an easy task.

 

 

this thread is still going? interesting.

if you were to get 100% Headshots with Soma, it would still do less Damage than BoltorP does with only body shots.

even the extra 2x from Crit Headshots doesn't bring them together.

 

Guess my computations say otherwise.

Edited October 4, 2014 by Quizel

[MechaTails]

I think it's time Dual Cestras start rendering every other gun obsolete F*** YEAH CORPUS 4 LYFE!!!

[(PSN)Veg1ta]

Quizel your forgetting that the boltor p is also punture therefore performs better in the void because heavy gunners the hardest target to take down.

[Quizel]

Quizel your forgetting that the boltor p is also punture therefore performs better in the void because heavy gunners the hardest target to take down.

I used my spreadsheet found within my profile. It's accurate to within 1% vs any enemy I've tested it with to date.  Head shots, red crits, head shot red crits, head shot red crits through volt shield bonus, 100% CP aura, proc tic dmg using bane/expel mods, pretty much everything I could think of.

 

(okay, procs tics that are blow ~100 aren't always within that 1% error vs armored targets -> no idea how de rounds but rounding to whole numbers when the tic dmg is only like 6 or 7 is huge. for large tic values its back to being within 1%).

Edited October 4, 2014 by Quizel

[Azawarau]

**Computations don't factor in the wind up of soma, but doesn't take too long.**

 

Well, Soma going for head shots does out perform Boltor Prime going for head shots by about 15-30% burst/sustained dps for builds I'd use in the void vs C heavy gunners (0 and 100% CP aura). 

 

Boltor Prime: ser, hc, split c, 300% corrosive/viral (4 mods), and shred

Soma: ser, split c, ps&vs, hammer shot, 180% corrosive or viral, and shred

 

With that said, I'd say BP is better because of the fact it's fairly close in dps when going for hs's but does better against body shots (44 to 55% better) . However, Soma is hit scan with more dependable accuracy (since hc isn't being used for this build). I highly value accuracy and hit scan.

 

With all of that said, I'd say the two weapons are about equal performance wise end game. 

 

Everyone is entitled to their opinion though. Even the builds I used for comparison is largely subjective. Some would say BP with HC can't be even modeled for head shots considering the accuracy loss and flight time. With this point of view, Soma is capable of waaaayyyy more paper dps than BP (~175% more). 

 

With all of that said, I'd still say the two weapons are about equal performance wise end game. Head shots vs some enemy types is not an easy task.

 

 

 

Guess my computations say otherwise.

There are alot of things youre not factoring here

 

Headshots means less potential for crowd clearing or overall DPS because of he angle of the shots

 

If youre going to go for headshots youd be better off with the latron prime or a bow. youre wasting ammo on the Soma

 

Theres also the wind up time that you left out. This is where paper usually misses a beat

 

Under the assumption youre going to shoot and hold till your clip empties you could say that the wind up time doesn tmatter

 

But youre going for headshots. Youll be spending most of your time going from target to target rather than spraying and praying

 

If you were to hold the somas fire youd just be wasting ammo between targets and losing DPS

 

BP is better than the soma

 

I think it's time Dual Cestras start rendering every other gun obsolete F*** YEAH CORPUS 4 LYFE!!!

I have dual cestras potatoed and formad

 

Somehow fell in love with them