ndantony Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Those disadvantages are really tiny compared to huge advantages it has. Most of those disadvantages automatically disappear simply by modding the weapon. (damage type ones) Crit is not needed at all considering huge damage it does, and bolts travel very quick, absolutely no need lead your shots in 90% fights. ...similar argument can be used on quite a few other weapons. And if it says bolt take some travel time and you say, no, it travel very quick and "90%", then there is no argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azawarau Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 The boltor prime has its advantages and disadvantages just like many weapons in the games... but these nerfing arguments are just ignoring that fact... Need to give this weapon more disadvantages?? http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Boltor_Prime ---------------------------- This weapon deals primarily Puncture damage. Advantages: ■High base damage. ■Deals high Puncture damage; effective against armored targets. ■High rate of fire. ■Due to its high fire rate and damage, it yields one of the highest sustained single target dps of all primary weapons, the other being the Boar Prime. ■Knocks target back on kill, dealing damage to nearby enemies behind the target. ■Low Recoil. ■ and polarities. Disadvantages: ■Bolts have a small amount of travel time. ■Generally less effective against shields and flesh ■Low Impact damage, which is compounded by the damage penalty Puncture has against shields ■No Slash damage, making it less effective against flesh and Infested. ■Low critical chance. ■Below-average ammo efficiency in general, especially when used with Speed Trigger. Comparisons: ■Boltor Prime, compared to the Boltor: ■Higher base damage (55.0 vs. 25.0). ■Higher Impact damage (5.5 vs. 2.5). ■Higher Puncture damage (49.5 vs. 20.0). ■Does not have Slash damage (0.0 vs. 2.5). ■Higher critical damage (200.0% vs. 150.0%). ■Faster rate of fire (10.0 rounds/s vs. 8.8 rounds/s). ■Slightly faster reload time (2.4s vs. 2.6s). ■Higher accuracy (50.0 vs. 25.0). ■Have an extra polarity. The travel time means near nothing in PvE Enemies are too slow and dumb to dodge and large open spaces are relatively rare The lower damage against shield sand flesh is also not taking into account that the weapon is so much more powerful that youll beat out other weapons despite the fact Ammo efficiency can be fixed with a single mod and using speed trigger is generally a bad idea for ammo efficiency on any weapon that doesnt charge Low critical chance just means you can mod more for damage and less for crit, which is hardly a disadvantage especially considering youre getting alot more bang for your buck The only actual disadvantages i can see are the low status chance and somewhat the travel time on shots Aside from that its towering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgedemon Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 (edited) this has drag for too long, with only reason for most arguments being translated as "i don't want to choose another weapon because this is so OP i'm forced to use it even when i don't like it" ill abandon THREAD* Edited October 1, 2014 by Edgedemon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deruser Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Guys, Boltor prime does not equal to all prime weapons. When everyone only wants the boltor prime and completely ignores all other primes, you know there's something wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)ElZilcho Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Guys, Boltor prime does not equal to all prime weapons. When everyone only wants the boltor prime and completely ignores all other primes, you know there's something wrong. I agree. There is something very wrong with the sort of boring sack that only ever uses a single weapon. How do they even enjoy this game, or any game for that matter, if they only do one thing? The gun, on the other hand, is just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dasmir Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Warframe is fulled with power creep and de is too lazy to even balance mods soo........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azawarau Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 this has drag for too long, with only reason for most arguments being translated as "i don't want to choose another weapon because this is so OP i'm forced to use it even when i don't like it" ill abandon THREAD* Thats not even close to accurate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolake Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Even if not a nefr Boltor P needs mastery 8 requirement thats for sure, or it makes a joke of the entire game's content. It's 'balanced' vs much higher levels than you normally meet anywhere. Its a high-end weapon, it should only be accessible to veteran players for the quasi 'end-game' not to noobs with some 30-40 plat. Latron P should have higher mastery requirement too (5 or 6) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-_Zeron_- Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 (edited) This argument is unfounded, if you nerf the Boltor prime something else is going to take its place. Something has to be at the top and something has to be at the bottom, it's how video games work. You're not going to stop min-maxers from min-maxing, it's what they find enjoyable. It's their problem if they feel they need to use the best of the best to do a mercury mission. I do however think it should be a MR 8+ weapon. There are a lot of new players who just buy a plat pack, buy a Boltor P set and claim they've "beaten the game" or that "everything else sucks" or some such nonsense. Seeing as it's MR2 i believe. Edited October 1, 2014 by Zeronthe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Veg1ta Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 What happens if they make a auto rifle thats better than the boltor p? Everyone who uses the boltor p will switch over, cause its the same ppl that want easy mode op weapon,like how everyone used the acr or ump45 in cod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azawarau Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 This argument is unfounded, if you nerf the Boltor prime something else is going to take its place. Something has to be at the top and something has to be at the bottom, it's how video games work. You're not going to stop min-maxers from min-maxing, it's what they find enjoyable. It's their problem if they feel they need to use the best of the best to do a mercury mission. I do however think it should be a MR 8+ weapon. There are a lot of new players who just buy a plat pack, buy a Boltor P set and claim they've "beaten the game" or that "everything else sucks" or some such nonsense. Seeing as it's MR2 i believe. Its fine if boltor stays on top But obsoleting entirely so many other weapons is not OK Noone wants to nerf it to the ground IMO it should stay the best but not by as much as it is currently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racter Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 60m is enough to clear any room in the game. 30 - 40 would still be a just nerf without removing any of your beloved numbers you jerk off to I don't think English is your first language or you're a little slow... talking about survival times not range. The gun is the best full auto rifle in the game, but full auto rifles are only viable for mid level or below content. Latron Prime goes a little farther but really bows and launchers are the only viable end game primaries anyway so what's the point? The Boltor P is too strong on Venus please make useless everywhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naftal Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 I don't want to read this whole thread so can someone explain me how boltor prime makes weapons useless and how you are forced to use it in any mission? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 I don't want to read this whole thread so can someone explain me how boltor prime makes weapons useless and how you are forced to use it in any mission? Nobody is forced to do anything. However, the statistical outlier that is the Boltor Prime makes other weapons feel irrelevant, which is a no-no. You want all weapons to feel viable. It also trivializes content to an extent other weapons do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naftal Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Nobody is forced to do anything. However, the statistical outlier that is the Boltor Prime makes other weapons feel irrelevant, which is a no-no. You want all weapons to feel viable. It also trivializes content to an extent other weapons do not. It maybe makes other automatic primaries irrelevant, but that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racter Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 It maybe makes other automatic primaries irrelevant, but that's it. That's the thing, it doesn't even do that. All content full auto rifles are good for, any of them will work. Which is just about everything in the game. So... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azawarau Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 I don't think English is your first language or you're a little slow... talking about survival times not range. The gun is the best full auto rifle in the game, but full auto rifles are only viable for mid level or below content. Latron Prime goes a little farther but really bows and launchers are the only viable end game primaries anyway so what's the point? The Boltor P is too strong on Venus please make useless everywhere? Latron prime is just as viable as bows And by sacrificing a bit of damage,using items, and/or bringing a nekros youll likely have little issue even at 60 minutes with ammo efficiency AND EVEN IF YOU DID Thats no way to balance the game Around lvl 45-50 the boltor wont have these issues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racter Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Latron Prime is not even remotely competitive with Dread/Penta in terms of raw damage. Not at all saying it's a bad weapon (I have 3-5 forma in both my Prime and my Wraith) but be realistic. Dread can damage cap AMD in 1-2 shots, Latron can't even come close to that. The ammo efficiency isn't the issue so much as the damage just not cutting it anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dasmir Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Latron Prime is not even remotely competitive with Dread/Penta in terms of raw damage. Not at all saying it's a bad weapon (I have 3-5 forma in both my Prime and my Wraith) but be realistic. Dread can damage cap AMD in 1-2 shots, Latron can't even come close to that. The ammo efficiency isn't the issue so much as the damage just not cutting it anymore. The thing is Latron Prime its hit scan and doesnt have issues against large crowds unlike bows you need to lead and mobs running straight to dealt with crowds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndantony Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Latron prime is just as viable as bows And by sacrificing a bit of damage,using items, and/or bringing a nekros youll likely have little issue even at 60 minutes with ammo efficiency AND EVEN IF YOU DID Thats no way to balance the game Around lvl 45-50 the boltor wont have these issues Better to buff a little more with other weapons than to use them to argue for nerfing boltor. Apparently here, it can be argued either for or against. And those following lines of argument are just that. And around lvl 45-50 it won't matter because the enemies are crowded enough and are next to you and kill you anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brynslustafir Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 I never use Boltor Prime. It's just so boring. Amprex and Miter are my usual choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azawarau Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Latron Prime is not even remotely competitive with Dread/Penta in terms of raw damage. Not at all saying it's a bad weapon (I have 3-5 forma in both my Prime and my Wraith) but be realistic. Dread can damage cap AMD in 1-2 shots, Latron can't even come close to that. The ammo efficiency isn't the issue so much as the damage just not cutting it anymore. Dread has an aim time and requires a bit of leading on anything that isnt too close by when you miss a shot it hurts your DPS quite a bit and you cant build for status abuse >Reducing armor/killingshields/stun< as effectively Also the Latron prime does better in crowds and will likely never run out of ammo unlike bows If youre looking at raw damage alone youre not going to actually figure out whats better And as for the Penta So whats your point? It outclasses near every gun in the game along with the Ogris Thats hardly a point to make Better to buff a little more with other weapons than to use them to argue for nerfing boltor. Apparently here, it can be argued either for or against. And those following lines of argument are just that. And around lvl 45-50 it won't matter because the enemies are crowded enough and are next to you and kill you anyway. Buff every weapon in the game VS nerf boltor Hmmm... Buff only top tier weapons VS nerf boltor That power jump AND low mastery? Makes everything mastery fodder Better to drop the boltor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndantony Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 (edited) ... Buff every weapon in the game VS nerf boltor Hmmm... Buff only top tier weapons VS nerf boltor That power jump AND low mastery? Makes everything mastery fodder Better to drop the boltor Yes, I am of opinion for buffing up other weapons! And I am proud to stand up for this belief as well!! ...in fact, I have also mention about this in other posts. Nerfing boltor may seem the easiest solution, and the nerfing enthusiasts love to use this in their arguments, but not necessarily the right one. Nor a solution that would help progressing the game or making the game as enjoyable. It seems to me it is an old generation of conservative thinking by gamers. But really, that how I believe the game should progress. And in fact, we need more cool weapon like bortor, or even a soma; soma is also as good or close and I love it too; and I hope soma prime will be even better. Edited October 3, 2014 by ndantony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azawarau Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 (edited) Yes, I am of opinion for buffing up other weapons! And I am proud to stand up for this belief as well!! ...in fact, I have mention about this on other posts. Nerfing boltor may seem the easiest solution, and the nerfing enthusiasts love to use this in their arguments, but not necessarily the right one. Nor a solution that would help progressing the game or making the game as enjoyable. It seems to me it is an old generation of conservative thinking by gamers. But really, that how I believe the game should progress. And in fact, we need more cool weapon like bortor, or even a soma; some is also as good or close and I love it too; and I hope soma prime will be even better. Whats the point in buffing everything else exactly? Edited October 3, 2014 by Azawarau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racter Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 (edited) I think we're having a mis-communication issue here. All the better rifles are good up until no rifle is good anymore. At that point, nothing is good but bows and launchers. If you're going that far, you're running 4X Corrosive Projection and the mobs are CC locked. You don't build for status/elemental combos/anything but straight damage on the Dread and you definitely shouldn't be missing shots. You don't build status for anything at that point, you just run viral/heat on weapons that have space for more +dmg mods for the extra damage. Building for killing shields? Lollll All of which is besides the point! Braton Burston Boltor doesn't matter! They're good/great modded properly until they're not then they're useless and there is practically no difference between them in terms of when that happens! I don't understand what you're not understanding here. An electric blanket ruins a candy bar but does nothing to steel. Lave ruins a candy bar and ruins steel. All full auto rifles are electric blankets. Make sense now? All buff/nerf threads for auto rifles these weapons are pointless because as a weapon they don't hold a candle to other options. The Scindo P doesn't copter as well as Dakra P but they're both trash compared to Zoren/Ichor/Amphis/Scoliac. A motorcycle is faster than a moped but they're both snails compared to a jet. A boulder is bigger than a pebble but both are jokes compared to a mountain. Is this more clear? Edited October 3, 2014 by Racter0325 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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