I Think It's Time Boltor Prime Stops Rendering ~130 Weapons Obsolete

[Countess_Hapmuhr]

I'll paraphrase one of the coolest guys I never remembered the name of:

 

"Until your weapon can physically EAT the other weapons, it does not render them obsolete by just existing."

 

Also. No.

 

Edit: Also, the Angstrom is the highest DPS weapon in the game. It makes Boltor Prime look (and feel) like a simple toy.

Edited June 10, 2014 by Hap-muhr

[PeripheralVisionary]

Not random OP stats. Just for the weapon models they like it seems. Compare Pyrana to Marelok. Pyrana is a Shotgun with less damage even up close than Marelok does over far greater distances. Also the ludicrous recoil the Pyrana has doesnt make it better. Im sure nobody will go full auto beyond the distance of 5 metres. And please dont go "But you cannot compare a Shotgun to a Lever action pistol." Its about raw damage stats.

Depends if they want an alternative weapon or a more powerful weapon. I'm not entirely sure that DE is devoted to the mathematics as some warframe players are. 

*Okay, 100% sure they aren't. Hardcore players abound in any online shooter.

[Dewnin]

I'm going to throw this out here~  what I think most people mean by 'obsolete' is that, in almost ANY situation, using a particular thing is superior to using any other thing.  Which from what even Mr. Stefanovich's detractors are saying seems to be the case.

If you only take it out when you absolutely have to have unassailable DPS+crowd control, you are pretty much agreeing that this here weapon makes others obsolete, at least from a numbers standpoint.

 

okay okay, but is that a bad thing?  that's really up to DE.  As it stands, -the- choice for endgame content is the BoltorPrime.  It is your Ultima Weapon, your Material Blades(shut up, they were cool), your Meat Cleaver.  This is neither really a good thing or a bad thing, while this sort of "super weapon" doesn't exist for the warframes, it certainly makes people WANT the boltorP, and it's hard enough to come by to justify it's power.

IF the plan was for prime weapons to generally ALL be on the same, final-ish tier of power this clearly isn't working though. 

I would say the boltor could be brought down a squige in some way, to be more in line with it's peers, or some other weapons could be buffed(or heck, just added to the game) up into "boltor tier".  I sort of suspect, and hope, we'll see one of these two things happen soon™, DE's design philosophy tends to give us at least a couple of relatively equal options for completing any task.

[PeripheralVisionary]

We have plenty of obsolete weapons. Namely melee weapons.

 

 

 

okay okay, but is that a bad thing?  that's really up to DE.  As it stands, -the- choice for endgame content is the BoltorPrime.  It is your Ultima Weapon, your Material Blades(shut up, they were cool), your Meat Cleaver.  This is neither really a good thing or a bad thing, while this sort of "super weapon" doesn't exist for the warframes, it certainly makes people WANT the boltorP, and it's hard enough to come by to justify it's power.

IF the plan was for prime weapons to generally ALL be on the same, final-ish tier of power this clearly isn't working though. 

I would say the boltor could be brought down a squige in some way, to be more in line with it's peers, or some other weapons could be buffed(or heck, just added to the game) up into "boltor tier".  I sort of suspect, and hope, we'll see one of these two things happen soon™, DE's design philosophy tends to give us at least a couple of relatively equal options for completing any task.

Power creep is a bad thing. It introduces linear progression. A gun shouldn't be in a tier all its own. 

Edited June 10, 2014 by PeripheralVisionary

[Dewnin]

mr. PeripheralVisionary

euugh....that's sort of...weirdly phrased?  I think you're agreeing with me?  angrily? .-.

uh... +1 :D

?????

 

Also I dunno, melee weapons are decent at finishing off a single scary enemy at most of the early levels.  like leveling up my Saryn recently, using sybaris and scoliac, it actually paid off pretty well to slide in and stunlock stuff like fusion moas and bombards, lots of fun.  Not so much in lategame though, with a maxed penta, all I ever use is that penta.  Also never switch to melee to use the stance :/ 

thats sort of off topic though, I guess.

[Cursor]

I think Peripheral's point is that there are a lot of obsolete melee weapons, although I may be mistaken. Melee 2.0 made melee feasible at least, although you have the problem of the game every few seconds saying to you, "Whoa friend, not so fast there" when you run out of stamina.

 

And I'd have to disagree with him on his statement about power creep. It's not bad because it introduces vertical progression, because vertical progression is not inherently evil. However, I do still think it's bad, demonstrably bad, and the only people it harms is the players.

 

Frankly, I still think Brakk is the disgusting "what are you thinking" option when it comes to OP weapons, because of its reliability and shocking ease of use on top of raw strength, and the numbers seem to suggest it beats Boltor Prime outright as well, but that's its own problem and doesn't excuse the Boltor Prime for what it is. But anyway, the bottom line is power creep. If we allow this kind of progression, it won't be long before we experience even more cycling out of weapons. 6 months from now, perhaps Boltor Prime will be though of as average, and something entirely new will be setting the bar in terms of power, and I don't like that kind of blatant manipulation to waste our time and get into our wallets.

[Nagisawa]

If we'd go back in time. A time when Boltor Prime wasn't around.

 

Do you really think there wasn't a gun dominating every other gun?

 

Of course there was, which renders this directed disapproval towards a single weapon, rather redundant.

 

Not saying a check on weapon power would be a bad thing. I just don't see a nerf to Boltor Prime as a solution to this predicament.

The Soma is still considered a top tier weapon.

[fatpig84]

The Soma is still considered a top tier weapon.

 

Go back earlier than that.

 

Ogris was blasting the crap out of a ton of things since it's introduction in U8.

And to date it is still the premier AOE weapon.

 

While it does not have the burst damage and spread of the Angstrum, or the trapping nature of Castanas and Penta, it still by far the best if you are on a static position and need to fire rockets, repeatedly and accurately across large distance. And with the biggest damage to boot.

 

The reason people don't whine about it now is because they have "accepted" it.

Back then people whine about Kunai and Despair as well, where are those complaints now ? :/

Edited June 11, 2014 by fatpig84

[PeripheralVisionary]

mr. PeripheralVisionary

euugh....that's sort of...weirdly phrased?  I think you're agreeing with me?  angrily? .-.

uh... +1 :D

?????

 

Also I dunno, melee weapons are decent at finishing off a single scary enemy at most of the early levels.  like leveling up my Saryn recently, using sybaris and scoliac, it actually paid off pretty well to slide in and stunlock stuff like fusion moas and bombards, lots of fun.  Not so much in lategame though, with a maxed penta, all I ever use is that penta.  Also never switch to melee to use the stance :/ 

thats sort of off topic though, I guess.

Huehuehue.

Melees gotten more useful with life leech. Although, funnily enough, once you run out of ammo, your melee will feel like pinpricks either way. unless we're talking like, Dual Ichors. (Have not mastered them completely)

[TonyFoot]

You are so ignorant you are amusing you know that?Wiki is wrong because that would be in perfect conditions and Supra cant perfome that well basically cant perform at all at high level the top weapons are those who can crit Soma / Synapse /Amphex / Pris Prime . Boltor has the highest FLAT damage . Boltor prime can be out damage by the red crits of  ampex i believe and other weapons of that level and it can also be out damaged by Angstrum not to mention it can out damaged also by Burston prime . Look by yourself how wrong you are Burtson prime (http://goo.gl/TYGc8D) / Boltor prime (http://goo.gl/mFp9fB) / Soma (http://goo.gl/RVkVjT) . That page is 100% accurate so tell me again how monsterly OP boltor prime is (check the boxes to see max damage multi shot and crit) 

 

Went and checked this over, and it's grossly misrepresentative of actual performance. I reached this conclusion by pulling all the mods off and checking the machine's representation of each weapons base stats. They're ALL wrong except the boltor's. (How they missed this I have no idea)

 

For starters, the Burston Prime is out-right wrong, in that the machine counts its burst fire mechanism as multi-shot. It's not, especially since burst fire essentially locks your fire rate to your frame speed. This artifically inflates its DPS to nearly triple what it actually is, and that's assuming perfect pc performance.

The fire rate can also be called into question, as the burston's fire rate is displays it as 25 before burst lock (as in, this is the speed the gun progresses through the burst, not the actual firerate), but the machine lists it as 10 after burst lock, which is wrong because that would be 10 rounds per second as a base (maybe if the before stat was 30...still, wrong), which is a bit too fast for the actual weapon. this is likely a miscalculation related to the counting of the burst as multishot.

 

The soma's base damage is also wrong: Soma has 1 impact, 4 puncture, 5 slash. The modding machine shows it as 1.6 impact, 6.4 puncture, 8 slash (6 points higher). This is an actual error that throws off the final DPS by a considerably large margin, especially considering the multiplicative nature of mods and the crit system on which soma relies for most of its dps.

 

Still, you raise a valid point: the wiki can't exactly be trusted, as anyone can post and they're all human, so they could be wrong. Your modding site is wrong too, because it calculates dps incorrectly, but that just leaves us with no reliable sources.

 

With my own personal experiences, adding heavy calibre to my soma was far more disrupting than adding it to my boltor P; My accuracy with my soma dropped considerably, while my boltor stayed almost unchanged. 

I can't speak for the burston, as I've never tried it, but all semi-auto fire triggers have so far, in my experience, fallen short of full-auto in terms of fire rate when they have similar statistics, no matter how hard/fast I click.

 

That's why I support the nerf; I still think the Boltor has a far better performance than any other gun I've used, and I'm rank 13, so I've used quite the arsenal. I enjoy it, but I definitely feel like it's very unbalanced/overpowered.

[kultuu]

Went and checked this over, and it's grossly misrepresentative of actual performance. I reached this conclusion by pulling all the mods off and checking the machine's representation of each weapons base stats. They're ALL wrong except the boltor's. (How they missed this I have no idea)

 

.....

 

The soma's base damage is also wrong: Soma has 1 impact, 4 puncture, 5 slash. The modding machine shows it as 1.6 impact, 6.4 puncture, 8 slash (6 points higher). This is an actual error that throws off the final DPS by a considerably large margin, especially considering the multiplicative nature of mods and the crit system on which soma relies for most of its dps.

 

.....

 

 

Its not wrong, just uncheck the critical check box.....Seriously. FFS

 

 

http://warframe-builder.com/Primary_Weapons/Builder/Soma

Edited June 11, 2014 by kultuu

[Thrymm]

"No" Because the assertion that "nerf Boltor Prime" is the only right way to handle the matter what is arrogant and foolish.

"No" Because this horse has been kicked way too many times, the topic is tired to the point of being a repeat topic, a bannable offense on many forums.

"No" Because the original poster literally edited into a name calling temper tantrum in lieu of discussion--because, you know, his way of thinking was clearly the rational one.

 

 

"No" Because, frankly, it sums up the entire opinion on the matter for a great many of us.

[Basilisk1991]

personally i dont agree with you. i think these weapons are supposed to be very powerful! they are the prime version of their counterpart nerfing weapons that you think are OP is not how i would balance it. also im gonna thumbs up their comment because you asked me not too :)

 

Just to clarify do you think nerfing things that are Op isn't a good way to balance things, or do you think nerfing things the Original Poster thinks are OP isn't a good way to balance things?

 

The main thing about the Boltor Prime that just bugs me thematically is just the huge magazine capacity on that thing, you'd think that a weapon that fires forearm sized darts would have a limited ammo capacity but nope, it's got a 60 round magazine and a ridiculously high firing rate too! Mind you I had the same issue with the original Boltor so it's more an issue with the source material than with the prime itself.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Basilisk1991

[BloodArmoredApostle]

"No" Because the assertion that "nerf Boltor Prime" is the only right way to handle the matter what is arrogant and foolish.

"No" Because this horse has been kicked way too many times, the topic is tired to the point of being a repeat topic, a bannable offense on many forums.

"No" Because the original poster literally edited into a name calling temper tantrum in lieu of discussion--because, you know, his way of thinking was clearly the rational one. (your opinion of the matter)

 

 

"No" Because, frankly, it sums up the entire opinion on the matter for a great many of us.

This really isn't necessary to make a valid point. Addressing "those as foolosih" isn't contructive thus it wouldn't make a difference what point you made. You are judging people based on a opinion, and that isn't the way to go to make your point any clearer. 

 

Nice way to make it seem in the majority there, but truth be told there is a fair amount of disagreement on this thread. So, This statement of "entire opinion" is rather moot. Some agree and some don't making others seem ignorant still isn't within the guidelines of the forum and is not a way to relay any particular idea.

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

Just to clarify do you think nerfing things that are Op isn't a good way to balance things, or do you think nerfing things the Original Poster thinks are OP isn't a good way to balance things?

 

The main thing about the Boltor Prime that just bugs me thematically is just the huge magazine capacity on that thing, you'd think that a weapon that fires forearm sized darts would have a limited ammo capacity but nope, it's got a 60 round magazine and a ridiculously high firing rate too! Mind you I had the same issue with the original Boltor so it's more an issue with the source material than with the prime itself.

 

Yeah the whole realism thing doesn't come into play with Warframe...  Space ninja wizards with rocket launchers remember?  XD

[Basilisk1991]

Yeah the whole realism thing doesn't come into play with Warframe...  Space ninja wizards with rocket launchers remember?  XD

 

I'm not saying it's unrealistic, I accept that all the Warframes have super strength considering that their bows pack enough kinetic energy to send grineer covered in heavy armor flying through the air like they're made of paper. My point is that you have this huge ammo capacity (it's tied with the Grakata for having the 4th largest magazine out of all the rifles), low reload speed, and a very high rate of fire which just runs counter to the weapon concept IMO. Is is a heavy rifle or is it a machine gun, right now it feels like both and that drives me crazy.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Basilisk1991

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

I'm not saying it's unrealistic, I accept that all the Warframes have super strength considering that their bows pack enough kinetic energy to send grineer covered in heavy armor flying through the air like they're made of paper. My point is that you have this huge ammo capacity (it's dead even the the Grakata), low reload speed, and a very high rate of fire which just runs counter to the weapon concept IMO. Is is a heavy rifle or is it a machine gun, right now it feels like both and that drives me crazy.

 

Why you gotta go crazy over a virtual item in a video game?  It's not a big deal.  It's neither a machine gun or a heavy rifle; it's just what it is a Boltor Prime.

[DalaiLlama]

Really quickly, you all do know how difficult it is to acquire this weapon, yes?

Edited June 11, 2014 by DalaiLlama

[ArsVampyre]

I disagree.  If anything, other weapons need buffed.

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

T4 void missions are coming.  Let's all chill with the buff/nerf talk for a while.  We're getting more difficulty to match our more powerful weapons now!  

 

OK?

[Archistopheles]

Really quickly, you all do know how difficult it is to acquire this weapon, yes?

 

You pay $49.95 USD?

[Vaskadar]

You pay $49.95 USD?

 

It's not difficult to acquire. Just tedious. There's a difference.

[shepshifter]

The gun is far to overpowered, I don't care how much people whine it should be nerfed. Before people start throwing around more 5 hour survivial comments, there is no need to do survival for 5 hours in one mission, nothing pivitol revolves around it.

[kultuu]

The gun is far to overpowered, I don't care how much people whine it should be nerfed. Before people start throwing around more 5 hour survivial comments, there is no need to do survival for 5 hours in one mission, nothing pivitol revolves around it.

 

 

trololol, the boltor prime loses efficiency at  40minutes +  (t3 survival) against corrupted heavy gunners , you need almost one full clip to kill  one. there are better weapons after that point.

Edited June 11, 2014 by kultuu

[Vaskadar]

trolollol, the boltor prime loses efficiency at  40minutes +  (t3 survival) against corrupted heavy gunners , you need almost one full clip to kill  one. there are better weapons after that point.

 

herp derp, all weapons lose efficiency with numbers inflation.