Why Are Accessories So Useless?

[MechaTails]

Some people are in that odd min/maxer crowd, who will not allow any possible stat change to escape their grasp on their trek towards pristine perfection.

 

Adding stats on cosmetic items forces players of that type to use cosmetics that they may not like, just to gain statistical advancement.  Personally, though I dig the art style used with all of the armors, I honestly think that none of any of the chest armors look even slightly right on any warframe at all.  Some shoulders look good on some frames, but even then there are frames that look wholly out of place donning any part of any existing armor set.

 

It bothers those of us in this crowd because having cosmetic attachments with stats totally overrides any chance of them being cosmetic.  In our eyes, all they are is more statistical gain to pile on, which hamper the artistic design we may enjoy.

 

Long story short, I hate this idea with every fiber of my being and hope its never implemented.  Atop that, as an avid user and owner of basically every stat helm (I'm only missing one of Nyx's), I truly wish DE would've just said "No helmet stats for anyone." and removed them all outright and been done with it rather than choosing the route they've chosen.

 

If you want more stats for interesting character customization, ask for that.  Tying stats to cosmetics has never made sense in any game.

 

Or they can simply add a toggle switch to turn stats on or off, then there's zero reason for anyone to complain.

 

Although, I guess it must be a monumentally impossible task to add that little toggle switch because DE got rid of stat helmets instead of adding the toggle.

 

Seriously, there must have been blood sacrifice involved for them to refuse to add the toggle and instead create entirely new helmets. Or I guess it was easier to add new helmets *shrug*

Edited June 25, 2014 by DarkTails

[RedDirtTrooper]

Or they can simply add a toggle switch to turn stats on or off, then there's zero reason for anyone to complain.

 

Although, I guess it must be a monumentally impossible task to add that little toggle switch because DE got rid of stat helmets instead of adding the toggle.

 

Seriously, there must have been blood sacrifice involved for them to refuse to add the toggle and instead create entirely new helmets. Or I guess it was easier to add new helmets *shrug*

A toggle does nothing. Why would we use an option to gimp ourselves? If there are stats on an item, one of them will always be the best item for a particular build. Not using it means not hitting your full potential. The problem isn't caused by people not wanting the stats, the problem is a direct result of people wanting the stats. The result is every perma invis loki wearing an essence helmet, every disarm loki using a swindler helmet, Every Ember wearing a phoenix helmet, etc. So what if I could turn the range boost on the swindler helmet off? The essence helmet still makes a better invisible loki. The phonix helmet and more energy is always a better choice for Ember, turning off the stats on the other one doesn't somehow make it less stupid to use anything else.

 

Basically, being able to choose cosmetics is nice, but for non scrubs the stat boost is always more important and that results in everybody's warframe looking the same. That's why they removed stats from helmets, and that's why they'll never add them to any of the other attachments. 

[MechaTails]

stuff

 

The problem is 90% of players are absolutely fine with a toggle, they aren't obsessed with stats. The whiny OCD-inflicted 10% throw a monkey wrench into the game, making a fuss about nothing and it's insane to pander to their whims.

 

I don't care if we do/don't get stats, as an impartial observer I can clearly see what the problem is, the minority of players who have personal issues with self-control. That's the bottom line.

 

But of course DE can't say, "Hey knock it the F*** off already, keep your S#&$ in check and let everyone else have their fun", so they cave to look like the good guys.

 

Edit: I take that back, DE caves so they don't have to listen to the whining anymore.

Edited June 25, 2014 by DarkTails

[(PSN)kcarpe2007]

Oops, I'm sorry, I thought this was the Warframe forums. Ya know, Space Ninjas, Robust Robotical Renegades.

Guess I stumbled in on a Hollywood Fashion Trend thread. Silly me.

Honestly, I am embarrassed to play a VIDEO GAME so pathetically rife with Prima Donnas who whine about someone else having a slight edge over them or how the best stat helmets look so "icky".

The majority of replies to this thread are pseudo-intellectual attempts to purport a case where players are "forced" to wear ugly cosmetics due to the stat advantages. Have you really looked at the majority of these stats? Are they game breaking? No. You whiners who missed the helm alerts or struggle with having to be aesthetically gorgeous at all times are the REAL in-game "accessories" that need to be rendered impotent.

The only entities "forcing" any player to do ANYTHING in this game are called Ego and Envy.

DE --- PLEASE --- STOP ---HEEDING --- CODDLING ---- APPEASING --- THE PRIMA DONNAS

(You have a far greater number of players who actually believe function supersedes form. Give all the nancy-boys free statless pacifiers that accentuate their color schemes and lip gloss. Stop allowing them to continually degrade the gameplay for others.)

Edited June 26, 2014 by (PS4)kcarpe2007

[TenshuYuusha]

Armor should totally have base stats.  ARMOR stats.  They could all have a +10 or 20% armor.  All equal.  There.  Done.  Sure, make them moddable.  Great idea.  Otherwise, don't call it ARMOR!  That's just ri-frickin-diculous.  Hell, do the same thing with the helmets.

 

Don't compare them to the helmets.  The helmets were alert mission rewards.  The Armor is bought with plat.  Totally different.  

 

No, that doesn't make it P2W.  Why?  Because the game IS P2W already!  Anyone that doesn't think this is deluding themselves.  Let me take you on a magical journey.  The game is called Warframe.  It is a never ending grind.  Free, you can get 2, maybe 3 warframes.  There are a great many more frames than that.  A major point of the game is to try them out to find the one that "fits" you and your aesthetic.  Guess how you get more?  You have to PAY FOR IT!!!!!!  There has NEVER been a reward that nets you a new frame or a slot for one.  No VANDAL frame.  No Wraith Frame.  You can get more weapons for free.  You can earn a free weapon slot almost once a month or so with the event rewards.  That is cool.  That is also not very often., therefore, Pay to Win.

 

You don't want any armor on your frame because it will hurt the look?  You still have the frame itself hurting the aesthetic. There are frames that I like using because I like their abilities more than others that have some parts about their frame that I find more appealing.  It's called not having everything handed to you on a platter.  It's called having to choose.  Besides, once you get powerful enough, a small stat boost itself becomes an aesthetic, and no matter what you do or how good you are in this game, there is ALWAYS going to be someone who's played longer and payed a lot of money and is a LOT more powerful than you because of how much monies they payed.  That IS Pay To Win.  But, as it was pointed out, this is PVE, so all that does is further help the squad.  IT HINDERS YOU NOT.

Free players can have all the frames without spending a single bit of cash plat, just need to be business savvy, namely people who don't want to grind for R5s yet you go out of your way to get a surplus of it and start selling. Know how many free players rejoiced when Tranquil Cleave was "the" stance people wanted? :v

Edited June 27, 2014 by TenshuYuusha

[NixinVictus]

Free players can have all the frames without spending a single bit of plat, just need to be business savvy, namely people who don't want to grind for R5s yet you go out of your way to get a surplus of it and start selling. Know how many free players rejoiced when Tranquil Cleave was "the" stance people wanted? :v

 

I will try this thing you speak of.  However, as someone posted earlier, it still comes down to a transaction involving platinum to get slots, even if they're not mine.

 

The idea to give them all the same small stat boost seems to stand with everyone's input so far.  I don't know why so many people incessantly whine about more helmets.  No one ever said anything about having to put multiple stats and/or positive and negative stats on the different armors to make them functionally different.  I think I'm going to write that one up to random comments from those too lazy to actually read the thread.  Let me just lay it out to get specific responses.

 

Whatchoo guys think?

 

*All Armors get you 10% armor boost

*All Syndanas get you 10% speed (or something like that) boost

*All newer (non-arcane) helmets get you 10% energy something or other and 10% shield

*All weapon decorations get your weapons 10% crit chance or status chance

 

Is this not goods?

[__Kanade__]

It would move towards buying power, right now this game doesn't have that, rather if you don't have the time or patience to craft everything, then you can just buy everything which isn't that much better.

 

Look at the new free-to-play Soul Caliber game. It's "free-to-play" meaning it's pretty much a free download but it has no multiplayer. The devs said it themselves that the game was intentionally made to be pay-to-win if you want to achieve everything in the game with minimal difficulty, but because the model is heavy on p2w. they removed mutiplayer so that it wasn't so unfair to players who don't have the luxury of buying power against players who do nothing but buy power.

 

Dynasty Warriors Online EN was the same way, it was so heavy on p2w that pretty much every player that couldn't afford it quit since they were always getting one-shotted by a heavy p2w user and the game was shut down. But that's how every game from Aeriagames are. heavy p2w games.

 

 

Blacklight: Retribution has a better buisness model than what Warframe has, you just need to reach a certain level to unlock new attachments and you can rent or perma buy each attachment and receiver with in-game points that you get jsut from playing the game and everything is cheap so you can get a new receiver after doing 3-4 games. You can't buy stuff power ups and such to boost your weapons or armor with virtual currency called Zen, all you can buy with Zen are camos for your weapons and gear as well as new heroes who each have their own set armor and perks.

 

If Warframe didn't have a PvP element, then I wouldn't care if buying a full set of Daedalus gave me an armor bonus.

Edited June 26, 2014 by __Kanade__

[Kestral9999]

Why Accessories are useless comes to the (and not take these personally to all other people out there) scrubs and newbies out there who constantly complaining about stuff giving stats and they cant have it cause they dont wanna use money on the game and Waah waah.

 

Its a reason Arcane helmets are no more. Cause of the constant bickering about it being pay to win when it never was.

 

Plus I like the armor sets without any bonuses. Makes it easier to customize the looks of a warframe without having to think "S#&$ if I do this, then he will suck" and so on. Accessories are just ment to be accessories. pretty stuff. Making you FEEL special, while they dont boost anything else than visuals. 

If you're frame is relying on minor stat boosts to not suck, he sucks. Btw, they are no longer called accessories, they are attachments now and such a name would denote some kind of utilizable feature where there is none. Sugatra, syandana, and armor are all just useless features when they really shouldn't be. 

 

I'm also going to point out that I think they should all be attainable as a rare reward for alert missions. And on top of that, I'm proposing a new item that will allow you to make two items of the same type switch appearances, I call it Trans-Forma! I'm kinda kidding about that last part, but that would be cool and would totally shut down any arguments that stat boost attachments would result in everyone looking the same.

[Kestral9999]

Am I seriously the only person who sometimes equips loadouts with only Warframe powers? Even without mods, some Warframes can survive quite well even on planets like Ceres. Point is, I'm proposing small supplemental benefits to the current cosmetic items, small ones. Ones that wouldn't be missed if you decided to change armors or other attachments. Everyone quit throwing around the P2W label.

Edited June 26, 2014 by Kestral9999

[BloodArmoredApostle]

It would move towards buying power, right now this game doesn't have that, rather if you don't have the time or patience to craft everything, then you can just buy everything which isn't that much better.

 

Look at the new free-to-play Soul Caliber game. It's "free-to-play" meaning it's pretty much a free download but it has no multiplayer. The devs said it themselves that the game was intentionally made to be pay-to-win if you want to achieve everything in the game with minimal difficulty, but because the model is heavy on p2w. they removed mutiplayer so that it wasn't so unfair to players who don't have the luxury of buying power against players who do nothing but buy power.

 

Dynasty Warriors Online EN was the same way, it was so heavy on p2w that pretty much every player that couldn't afford it quit since they were always getting one-shotted by a heavy p2w user and the game was shut down. But that's how every game from Aeriagames are. heavy p2w games.

 

 

Blacklight: Retribution has a better buisness model than what Warframe has, you just need to reach a certain level to unlock new attachments and you can rent or perma buy each attachment and receiver with in-game points that you get jsut from playing the game and everything is cheap so you can get a new receiver after doing 3-4 games. You can't buy stuff power ups and such to boost your weapons or armor with virtual currency called Zen, all you can buy with Zen are camos for your weapons and gear as well as new heroes who each have their own set armor and perks.

 

If Warframe didn't have a PvP element, then I wouldn't care if buying a full set of Daedalus gave me an armor bonus.

I mentioned that armor would have to be implemented in alerts and tradable to prevent the P2W scenario.

Edited June 26, 2014 by BloodArmoredApostle

[(PSN)Bobtm0]

I will try this thing you speak of.  However, as someone posted earlier, it still comes down to a transaction involving platinum to get slots, even if they're not mine.

 

The idea to give them all the same small stat boost seems to stand with everyone's input so far.  I don't know why so many people incessantly whine about more helmets.  No one ever said anything about having to put multiple stats and/or positive and negative stats on the different armors to make them functionally different.  I think I'm going to write that one up to random comments from those too lazy to actually read the thread.  Let me just lay it out to get specific responses.

 

Whatchoo guys think?

 

*All Armors get you 10% armor boost

*All Syndanas get you 10% speed (or something like that) boost

*All newer (non-arcane) helmets get you 10% energy something or other and 10% shield

*All weapon decorations get your weapons 10% crit chance or status chance

 

Is this not goods?

 

I still dislike the idea personally.  I honestly don't like any of the armor, the only slight exception being the EOS shoulder armor.  Even then I only like that on like... maybe 1 frame.

 

Giving a cosmetic a stat boost forces players to wear a cosmetic to reach that statistical point.

 

Now some people are touting "It's not PVP so it doesn't matter." and that's just in blatant disregard to any understanding of game balance.  If the boosts are actually worthwhile and not pointlessly small, you're giving players who choose cosmetics a better leg up over all the foes in the game.  This means that the effective possible challenge for a "cosmetic user" is inherently lessened, which eventually leads to people asking for more challenge.  DE would be forced to choose to either balance for people who do use cosmetics, or people who don't use cosmetics.

 

The only other option is making their stats so minimal that they're pointless.  But why give them stats at all if they mean nothing?

 

Wanting more statistical customization is nice, but tying it to a cosmetic is just off point.  The reason such things work in other RPG type games is due to how they're set up.  Of course wearing plate mail is more defensive than a poncho.  But here, we're all Warframes to begin with, these attachments are just frilly bits to make one look more unique or cool, and that's all.

[(PSN)edwinp426]

If one buys armor one should notice an increase in the armor stat of at least 10%. It just doesn't make any kind of sense to have your Warframe maintain the same armor rating after adding armor. It might as well be made out of paper!

Edited June 26, 2014 by (PS4)edwinp426

[PeripheralVisionary]

Custom armor sets should have base stats added to your Warframe instead of being strictly cosmetic. Same goes for Syandanas and Sugatra. I want to actually use some kind of logic when choosing what accessories go on a Warframe or weapon instead of just "Eh, that looks cool."

That is the entire reason why non arcane helmets don't give stats. People shouldn't have to sacrifice appearance for stats by DE's view.

[BloodArmoredApostle]

That is the entire reason why non arcane helmets don't give stats. People shouldn't have to sacrifice appearance for stats by DE's view.

Again my suggestion still stands for those who are concerned about appearances, and implementations of stats aren't out of the subject by DE's view as well. They are looking for a alternative solution as long as it is a current subject.

[PeripheralVisionary]

Again my suggestion still stands for those who are concerned about appearances, and implementations of stats aren't out of the subject by DE's view as well. They are looking for a alternative solution as long as it is a current subject.

I'm explaining DE's train of thought. The min max urge is strong. Of course, they're not forced to attach said armor to their warframe, but DE just wants to eliminate the urge altogether.

[-SLX-J3tAc3]

There is nothing to discuss here, really. Give folks the ability to have this or that stat on any armor set/set pieces they want, restricted to this or that class (leg, chest, arm augmentation), and have the mods available for purchase using plat on the market - everyone's happy and this will lead to greater player customization.

 

For instance, here are some examples:

Edo Armor piece - has Edo-era art on it. you can buy it and it will boost your attack speed by so much. Put it on any armor piece you want that is part of the arm class.

Burning Squirrel -art cover inspired by the Eos armor set/concept behind it (Eos, goddess of dawn). Put it on any armor piece you have, but restricted to the chest class. Boost your energy recharge speed by X% if you have energy siphon on, otherwise it will recharge your energy at a set rate per tick.

Maximum Power -art cover inspired by the Lilac armor Set. Increases how hard you hit. Art is inspired by the Lilac armor set/idea behind the concept (bio-engineering), restricted to the arm-class.

Fleeting Gazelle - art cover inspired by the lilac armor set/concept(s) behind it. Equipping it to your foot armor will increase your footspeed by "x " percent.

[NixinVictus]

K, so, every attachment gets a small boost depending on the category, so every type gets the same boost. Then, in each category, NINJA ARMOR!  As in, it's SO ninja, you can't even see it!  Right?!  YEAH!!!!!! Go Team Venture?

 

ps

 

(invisible armor)  for those that want the stat boost without equipping any new appearance. 

[-SLX-J3tAc3]

That's the only way to do it to make it not seem to be "gimping" other players, and there's nothing wrong with the post whatsoever. It's more about players being able to customize their Warframe even more the way they like.

If you think the idea is bad, then what do you suggest?

[Otaiken]

That's the only way to do it to make it not seem to be "gimping" other players, and there's nothing wrong with the post whatsoever. It's more about players being able to customize their Warframe even more the way they like.

If you think the idea is bad, then what do you suggest?

 

What is the point of this? If you want to avoid all problems with this you have to make it available for free and without changing appearance. So every frame would essentially have a set of passive buffs for no reason whatsoever. So why tie it into cosmetics at all?

 

Aren't mods enough? Also, even more power creep. Might as well go all the way and make completely new system... such system is worked on as we speak: Focus.

 

What you're proposing has nothing to do with cosmetics, as tying it into cosmetics just creates problems. What you want is another stat customization on top of mods. Let's wait and see what Focus will bring.

As for any stats tied to cosmetics in any way: NO

Edited June 26, 2014 by LocoWithGun

[-SLX-J3tAc3]

No, I disagree with this viewpoint completely, view it as an oversimplification and needless overdramatization of my post, as is usual of the forums. I myself offered the lockless solution as an aside to those who say this or that armor having this or that buff gimps players - I disagree with that assertion, but this was made in concession to them.

Going through this post, I don't see where you've made any viable points. I've already told you why I pressed this idea, and then you come back and ask me, "What's the point of this?"

Don't worry about it, mate. If you don't get it, you don't get it. You simply don't like the idea, end of story.

[BloodArmoredApostle]

I'm explaining DE's train of thought. The min max urge is strong. Of course, they're not forced to attach said armor to their warframe, but DE just wants to eliminate the urge altogether.

Look at dev stream 26 or 27 they clearly say they are looking for a way to implement this and they agree they should have stats on them. You should look at the whole video before jumping to conclusions.

 

 

What is the point of this? If you want to avoid all problems with this you have to make it available for free and without changing appearance. So every frame would essentially have a set of passive buffs for no reason whatsoever. So why tie it into cosmetics at all?

 

Aren't mods enough? Also, even more power creep. Might as well go all the way and make completely new system... such system is worked on as we speak: Focus.

 

What you're proposing has nothing to do with cosmetics, as tying it into cosmetics just creates problems. What you want is another stat customization on top of mods. Let's wait and see what Focus will bring.

As for any stats tied to cosmetics in any way: NO

Your probably a veteran I take it. There are a whole list of useless mods and the fact we can only really use 6 slots without "gimping" our ability sets. 

 

I think your whole power creep ideal is something that is a pile of hogwash sadly. There is no basis for it. This game is built on becoming more powerful. Enemies already have an advantage if you fight the grineer constantly. Then explain why veterans and other players are running from enemies that are just tier 2 lvl 15-23 dying constantly. I think you need to evaluate your point of view which seems vary narrow.

[PeripheralVisionary]

Look at dev stream 26 or 27 they clearly say they are looking for a way to implement this and they agree they should have stats on them. You should look at the whole video before jumping to conclusions.

They explained it by creating arcane and non arcane versions. I don't really see the difference between helm customization and armor accessories. Of course, it's not unreasonable imo to create boosts without negative effects, i.e. -5% sprint speed.

Edited June 27, 2014 by PeripheralVisionary

[Zaresin]

I would be ok if my Misa Syandanna Prime gave me extra mod slots....soooo sure DE get right on that lol

[TenshuYuusha]

I will try this thing you speak of.  However, as someone posted earlier, it still comes down to a transaction involving platinum to get slots, even if they're not mine.

 

The idea to give them all the same small stat boost seems to stand with everyone's input so far.  I don't know why so many people incessantly whine about more helmets.  No one ever said anything about having to put multiple stats and/or positive and negative stats on the different armors to make them functionally different.  I think I'm going to write that one up to random comments from those too lazy to actually read the thread.  Let me just lay it out to get specific responses.

 

Whatchoo guys think?

 

*All Armors get you 10% armor boost

*All Syndanas get you 10% speed (or something like that) boost

*All newer (non-arcane) helmets get you 10% energy something or other and 10% shield

*All weapon decorations get your weapons 10% crit chance or status chance

 

Is this not goods?

Armors and Syndana boost, agreeable to a degree, since you don't really see people *@##$ing about Arcane Vanguard helmet. Helmet and Weapon decoration, no... just no. I'd say for Helmets, give them the same system people have been wanting for a while, let the user slot them with some precepts. Sugatras should stay as simple accessories.

Also the reasoning for getting your plat off of someone else who paid for it is irrelevant, the bottom line is that you got your plat without spending a dime, you only had to work harder for it than the payer, which is normal and is a smart business plan for this type of game, as someone said: Pay4Convenience, the only perk of paying for plat is getting stuff faster, otherwise the free player can just piggyback off the plat user through trading (no matter what the reasoning may be, just because you needed 20p for a warframe slot doesn't necessarily mean that person that gave you the plat was going to use that 20p to get themselves a warframe slot)

Edited June 27, 2014 by TenshuYuusha

[Otaiken]

snip

 

Nope, you said you wanted more player customization. You want players to be able to equip certain buffs to customize their playstyle. What I'm asking is this: What does this have to do with cosmetics?

 

You need a visual representation of the buffs you have equiped? But then again.. people don't want to be forced to use cosmetics to get stat benefits. What's the difference between having 4 slots: arms, chest, legs, keychain, whatever and having slots: Buff slot A, Buff slot B, Buff slot C, etc.

 

There's no point or way to tie this into cosmetics without creating unnecessary problems. So what exactly do you want? Do you want stat customization or do you want your stat customization choices to be visually represented on your frame?

 

 

There is nothing to discuss here, really. Give folks the ability to have this or that stat on any armor set/set pieces they want, restricted to this or that class (leg, chest, arm augmentation), and have the mods available for purchase using plat on the market - everyone's happy and this will lead to greater player customization.

 

For instance, here are some examples:

Edo Armor piece - has Edo-era art on it. you can buy it and it will boost your attack speed by so much. Put it on any armor piece you want that is part of the arm class.

Burning Squirrel -art cover inspired by the Eos armor set/concept behind it (Eos, goddess of dawn). Put it on any armor piece you have, but restricted to the chest class. Boost your energy recharge speed by X% if you have energy siphon on, otherwise it will recharge your energy at a set rate per tick.

Maximum Power -art cover inspired by the Lilac armor Set. Increases how hard you hit. Art is inspired by the Lilac armor set/idea behind the concept (bio-engineering), restricted to the arm-class.

Fleeting Gazelle - art cover inspired by the lilac armor set/concept(s) behind it. Equipping it to your foot armor will increase your footspeed by "x " percent.

 

 

You want visual representation of the buffs. That's what this post is about. But we've already been through this... tying stats to cosmetics is bad since people don't want to be forced to use cosmetics they don't like to get the stats. So do you just need any armor to get those mods? What if I don't want to use armor? So you don't need any cosmetic to get the buffs then. In that case what is the point? Then it's just arbitrary 4 extra mods slots. Also, are you implying it's plat only in this post? Cause that is terrible idea and certainly wouldn't make everyone happy.

 

I'm not against passive buff system per say... I'm against it having anything to do with cosmetics whatsoever.

 

This topic is about stats on cosmetics: NO, been discussed to death indeed. Stats on cosmetics = problems. Your post is about giving players extra mod slots and doesn't have to do anything with cosmetics.. and it shouldn't.

 

"I want my piece of shoulder jewelry to DO something instead of just looking cool." <- Is what you're saying. Nice of you to mention player customization, too bad it's only a buzzword to push your point. Since tying cosmetics to buffs would essentially force you to forgo your prefered visual customization for stat customization. And yes, NOT using armor is a customization choice that you have to accomodate for.

Edited June 27, 2014 by LocoWithGun