Guest Shibboleet Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 It gave them a huge advantage over players who hadn't reached 9999 yet. Being able to gain more points even more easily at a point that is supposed to have increased difficulty creates an unbalanced situation where players are suddenly able to increase the gap between them and other players faster and more easily for no reason at all. But the players who did get past cap already did what they were doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggh Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) But the players who did get past cap already did what they were doing. It doesn't change the fact that it provides an advantage as a result of a design flaw. Continuing to play after that point can easily be considered an exploit. Edited June 24, 2014 by Aggh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shibboleet Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) It doesn't change the fact that it provides an advantage as a result of a design flaw. Continuing to play after that point can easily be considered an exploit. I guess I will need to explain (example runs): Players group A that hit no spawns: 1000 runs Players group B you're referring to: 600ish runs Player group A finished 400 more runs than group B. Player group B still needs to finish 400 more runs to get to cap. Player group B hits levels cap and continues the grind at the same rate Group A did when they were also at 1000 runs. unfair advantage..because they're slower? Edited June 24, 2014 by Shibboleet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggh Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) I guess I will need to explain: Players group A that hit no spawns: 1000 runs Players group B you're referring to: 600ish runs Player group A finished 400 more runs. Player group B still needs to finish 400 more runs to get to cap. Player group B hits levels cap and continues the grind at the same rate Group A did when they were also at 1000 runs. unfair advantage..because they're slower? Example: Group A has hit no spawns 1000 runs Group B has is at 950 runs Nominally group B should have a chance at catching up since both teams are having to slog through high level missions where they can be one shot. But the minute Group A hits no spawns they are suddenly able to gain more points, faster for no reason whatsoever. It widens the gap for no reason at all and breaks any hope for actual competition. Edited June 24, 2014 by Aggh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyDragon Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 It doesn't change the fact that it provides an advantage as a result of a design flaw. Continuing to play after that point can easily be considered an exploit. Its actually poor planning and not an exploit. Trying to sugar coat it to absolve DE of the blame isn't going to help this game get any better. This events scoring system should have grinded to a halt, had the bug addressed, and then restarted properly. Instead we end up with the very thing they clearly tried to avoid. "Recruit more people than the other to win" And honestly if you weren't in the top 5 clans actively grinding the event, you had no chance to begin with. They didn't cheat/exploit anything out of your hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegetableBasket Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) It gave them a huge advantage over players who hadn't reached 9999 yet. Being able to gain more points even more easily at a point that is supposed to have increased difficulty creates an unbalanced situation where players are suddenly able to increase the gap between them and other players faster and more easily for no reason at all. There's no advantage. Every player must grind missions to level cap. From there they had the privilege of running them with no opposition. While this is certainly stupid and a bug in the game, the rate at which players gain points doesn't matter. Everyone has to invest the amount of time it takes to get to level cap, from there it's a speedrunning contest. But everyone gets to level cap and runs mission after level cap equally. Yeah players can earn more points per minute after level cap, but it works the same way for everyone. It's not like certain players are abusing some exploit and other players are fighting 9999 enemies forever. If group B is behind and group A is ahead, it wouldn't matter how many points per minute people could get because group A spent more time and theoretically will continue to get more points per minute. Everyone rides the same difficulty curve. Edited June 24, 2014 by VegetableBasket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shibboleet Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Example: Group A has hit no spawns 1000 runs Group B has is at 950 runs Nominally group B should have a chance at catching up since both teams are having to slog through high level missions where they can be one shot. But the minute Group A hits no spawns they are suddenly able to gain more points, faster for no reason whatsoever. It widens the gap for no reason at all and breaks any hope for actual competition. But once group B hits 1000 runs they start going at the same pace the 1000 Group did. The gap is still the same % wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggh Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) Its actually poor planning and not an exploit. Trying to sugar coat it to absolve DE of the blame isn't going to help this game get any better. This events scoring system should have grinded to a halt, had the bug addressed, and then restarted properly. Instead we end up with the very thing they clearly tried to avoid. "Recruit more people than the other to win" And honestly if you weren't in the top 5 clans actively grinding the event, you had no chance to begin with. They didn't cheat/exploit anything out of your hands. No ones trying absolve them of any blame. They screwed up. The thing is, this is how it's been every time a exploit has been present in an event. It really shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. There's no advantage. Every player must grind missions to level cap. From there they had the privilege of running them with no opposition. While this is certainly stupid and a bug in the game, the rate at which players gain points doesn't matter. Everyone has to invest the amount of time it takes to get to level cap, from there it's a speedrunning contest. But everyone gets to level cap and runs mission after level cap equally. Yeah players can earn more points per minute after level cap, but it works the same way for everyone. It's not like certain players are abusing some exploit and other players are fighting 9999 enemies forever. Please. Imagine if all competitions worked like this. Lets take swimming for example. Two people are running the 50 free and when someone hits 25 meters they are suddenly, for no reason at all, able to go twice as fast. Can you see how that breaks competition? Edited June 24, 2014 by Aggh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegetableBasket Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 No ones trying o Please. Imagine if all competitions worked like this. Lets take swimming for example. Two people are running the 50 free and when someone hits 25 meters they are suddenly, for no reason at all, able to go twice as fast. Can you see how that breaks competition? That's like saying triathalons aren't fair because after you're done running you can get on a bike and go faster. It's the same idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyDragon Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) But once group B hits 1000 runs they start going at the same pace the 1000 Group did. The gap is still the same % wise. Two objects of identical speed start at different times, they make the same % progress per second regardless of the difference in position. this also includes accelerating after a set time, since it was a set point the acceleration occurs, the second group would still be identical in progress % per second. Edited June 24, 2014 by Nariala Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggh Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) That's like saying triathalons aren't fair because after you're done running you can get on a bike and go faster. It's the same idea. No, it's not. Triathlons are designed to work like that. This event was not supposed to work that way. It clearly states that there is supposed to be increased difficulty the more you play. Two objects of identical speed start at different times, they make the same % progress per second regardless of the difference in position. Clans aren't merely objects. They're people, with different skills, schedules and lives. Edited June 24, 2014 by Aggh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Pengu_Imperialus Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Against the rules?! What? They ENCOURAGED us to go as far as we can. "by completing more missions, you will encounter more difficult hives and more difficult enemies! These difficulty increases will allow you to yield higher points in a single run, with endless potential if you want to compete in Clan Leaderboards." Please read, Endless potential. (Until you hit a bug) And when you hit a bug, whether it's a known bug or not you are supposed to report it. If you then use the bug to your advantage it's called an exploit and anything gained from that is subject to whatever penalties the devs come up with. Yeah they knew that things bugged out at that level but anyone who went past that point did exploit the bug. So you can be annoyed that DE didn't fix the bug, but you only have yourself to blame for exploiting it and wasting your weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyDragon Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) Clans aren't merely objects. They're people, with different skills, schedules and lives. So the event should be balanced for that? That is the point isn't it? That regardless of the exploit or not, it is unlikely that that number difference would have much influence on the outcome. It wasn't an unfair advantage. It was a bug. A bug they did not address despite knowing about it. It was the competitions fault for being so loosely setup to begin with, encouraging community cannibalism instead of actual competition. Now its back to once again their favorite "Recruit more than the other" meta score system that all the other events have suffered from. Ironically now that they are doing it DE's "intended' way, Warbros is once again at the top. Is recruiting more than another clan competitive or exploitative? Edited June 24, 2014 by Nariala Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegetableBasket Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) No, it's not. Triathlons are designed to work like that. This event was not supposed to work that way. It clearly states that there is supposed to be increased difficulty the more you play. I'm not arguing that the event was supposed to have such a goofy difficulty curve, I'm saying the fact that enemies stopped spawning didn't give anyone an advantage because everyone was riding the same silly difficulty curve. Do you see what I mean? If person A gets on the bike first and has a higher speed than person B who's still jogging, the bike guy didn't gain an advantage. Does that make sense? Edited June 24, 2014 by VegetableBasket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggh Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) So the event should be balanced for that? That is the point isn't it? That regardless of the exploit or not, it is unlikely that that number difference would have much influence on the outcome. It wasn't an unfair advantage. It was a bug. A bug they did not address despite knowing about it. It was the competitions fault for being so loosely setup to begin with, encouraging community cannibalism instead of actual competition. Now its back to once again their favorite "Recruit more than the other" meta score system that all the other events have suffered from. Ironically now that they are doing it DE's "intended' way, Warbros is once again at the top. Is recruiting more than another clan competitive or exploitative? Sweet jeebus, did I say that? I was merely pointing out how ridiculous it is to assume that a group of individuals will always continue at the same rate of progress on a given task. I'm not arguing that the event was supposed to have such a goofy difficulty curve, I'm saying the fact that enemies stopped spawning didn't give anyone an advantage because everyone was riding the same silly difficulty curve. Do you see what I mean? If group A gets on the bike first and has a higher speed than the guy who's still jogging, the bike guy didn't gain an advantage. Does that make sense? The facts of how the event was supposed to work is the core problem of this entire issue. You can't simply ignore it because it doesn't suit your argument. Competition is defined by the set of rules in which is competitors are forced to follow. This event isn't a triathlon, it's an event where people are supposed to be competing over who can do the same thing over and over in a set amount of time. It is not an event broken into different stages of competition in order to compete over a variety of sports such as a triathlon does. It's a garbage analogy, drop it. Edited June 24, 2014 by Aggh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyDragon Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Sweet jeebus, did I say that? I was merely pointing out how ridiculous it is to assume that a group of individuals will always continue at the same rate of progress on a given task. But your entire argument hinged on identical speeds but one got there sooner than the other and therefore would never catch up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shibboleet Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 I'm not sure what the exploit is and how it works. I don't care either. I do find this thread highly amusing though. A butthurt cheater being superbutthurt because their cheating didn't work like they expected? xD And then complaining about how they wasted 48h because their cheating didn't work? I think we have a massive moron on our hands xD If you don't care enough to find out what happened, then don't start calling names please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaSnail Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 We're still talking about this? Jesus Christ let it go people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggh Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) But your entire argument hinged on identical speeds but one got there sooner than the other and therefore would never catch up. No, it's hinged on the nature of balanced competition. I said literally nothing about identical speeds and in fact, my example clearly illustrated two groups that were not going at identical speeds. Edited June 24, 2014 by Aggh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecolin- Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 We're still talking about this? Jesus Christ let it go people. The event is not over yet, is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyDragon Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 No, it's hinged on the nature of balanced competion. Your balance seems to believe that there was an end point despite the rules clearly stating unlimited scoring. Even if this did not occur, would you argue that because they had more people doing it faster it was unfair to those who did not have as many people? There is no way to balance this in favor of smaller clans, regardless of the scoring system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirkDeadeye Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Again, if you guys could focus this energy on a way to conduct a fair, and right-wise means to conduct a competition, the game..a lot of you admittedly spent 48 hours grinding your faces into will be a better place. You guys want to be on top, by any means, that has been proven. What's done is done. Look forward and do something productive with that negative energy. Anger is a secondary emotion, the primary is fear or sadness. Don't be sad or scared. Rise above, and make this game a better place, it's obvious that you're committed. Bickering about what could have been or weather or not you think you were righteous in your attempts is irrelevant at this point. But the pain you're feeling, regardless of how many of us think it's a little silly..it's still there. Do you want people to feel like that the next time around? You're in it for glory, so be the glorious one who punched through the walls of conjecture and butthurt with feedback and get their attention with some good ideas. Yes, I know the dreaded four words that I've fired people over: "That's not my job" ; those aren't the words of someone with a competitive spirit. And if I haven't provoked you to hit the quote button just yet I know what you might say to me and, I have some ideas as well. But since spit balling in an open discussion doesn't fly here at least with me, or my reputation, I gotta get my ducks in a line. I'm on board too. We also have PM's. And teamspeak, mumble..etc. There are places we can all hash out a better system. The limitations on the code is beyond our knowledge because they haven't commented on it, and there might be a good reason why they haven't fixed it yet. Or, as I said before they might've been naive about how far people are willing to go. But threads like this, on their end, only validate their actions, given the toxicity and ill-will towards DE, using "they've known about this for 6 months" as a scapegoat. There might be a guy coding his fingers off trying to figure this out. What if he read this, and he's under an NDA, and can't say a word, but blistering with anger, because he can't express how hard he's working on the problem. We simply don't know. So again, let's make light of this and shift this energy into something productive, cause this thread is a circular debate.. Straight down the drain. Nobody is gonna care about it a week from now, and nothing will come of it. I'm sorry, I love you all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PookieNumnums Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) basically people were being /are still being invited into missions after they start and are being brought up to host score in one bypassing said grind. EDIT::: 13.8.4 Changes: * Consumables can no longer be deployed while casting blocking abilities that toggle (SoundQuake, Absorb, etc). * Stealth-finishers are no longer possible on crawlers being carried. * Changed event scoring to prevent join-in-progress players getting a score they didn't run. Fixes: * Fixed lingering Absorb effects after Nyx has bled-out. * Fixed a script error with Nyx's Chaos that would cause a power-in-use bug. * Misc crash fixes. * Misc localization fixes. Edited June 24, 2014 by T4LCOMX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirkDeadeye Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Again, if you guys could focus this energy on a way to conduct a fair, and right-wise means to conduct a competition, the game..a lot of you admittedly spent 48 hours grinding your faces into will be a better place. You guys want to be on top, by any means, that has been proven. What's done is done. Look forward and do something productive with that negative energy. Anger is a secondary emotion, the primary is fear or sadness. Don't be sad or scared. Rise above, and make this game a better place, it's obvious that you're committed. Bickering about what could have been or weather or not you think you were righteous in your attempts is irrelevant at this point. But the pain you're feeling, regardless of how many of us think it's a little silly..it's still there. Do you want people to feel like that the next time around? You're in it for glory, so be the glorious one who punched through the walls of conjecture and butthurt with feedback and get their attention with some good ideas. Yes, I know the dreaded four words that I've fired people over: "That's not my job" ; those aren't the words of someone with a competitive spirit. And if I haven't provoked you to hit the quote button just yet I know what you might say to me and, I have some ideas as well. But since spit balling in an open discussion doesn't fly here at least with me, or my reputation, I gotta get my ducks in a line. I'm on board too. We also have PM's. And teamspeak, mumble..etc. There are places we can all hash out a better system. The limitations on the code is beyond our knowledge because they haven't commented on it, and there might be a good reason why they haven't fixed it yet. Or, as I said before they might've been naive about how far people are willing to go. But threads like this, on their end, only validate their actions, given the toxicity and ill-will towards DE, using "they've known about this for 6 months" as a scapegoat. There might be a guy coding his fingers off trying to figure this out. What if he read this, and he's under an NDA, and can't say a word, but blistering with anger, because he can't express how hard he's working on the problem. We simply don't know. So again, let's make light of this and shift this energy into something productive, cause this thread is a circular debate.. Straight down the drain. Nobody is gonna care about it a week from now, and nothing will come of it. I'm sorry, I love you all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PookieNumnums Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 adeed; i was taken from fifty to 149 in one run last night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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