Volt. De, You Kind Of Ruined My Day.

[SirProper]

I mean that too. I had a decent day, took a turn for the worse(personal stuff), warframe has been my only solace while waiting for Destiny, just found some fun and interesting ways to use Volt and was pulling him out of retirement and was looking forward to playing him tonight, and then log on and patch notes. 

 

Sure it didn't devalue my whole day, but it certainly ended it with disappointment and a lack of fun.  I also feel like I wasted time and resources on my Amprex, as I felt I had finally found a way for it to be as awesome as I hoped for, even in later content.

 

I am essentially reposting this here, as it is the correct place.

 

 

They fixed Volt's shield stacking...:(

 

Sigh I wrote out a really long post including a good chunk of detailed math to illustrate my point. Not sure what shortcut for my browser I managed to hit, but it went 'back' a page and it is all gone. Here is the Too Long Don't want to rewrite TL;DR (there will also be a TL;DR at the bottom)

 

I had been letting my Volt collect dust for quite awhile. I found him boring and uninteresting and the wonky @$$ niche tool of rushers, but then I took the time to really look at the mechanics of his abilities, and found something interesting. Something that the masses weren't doing. Something fun! Something I could hone into a polished diamond with some creative application. FURTHER EDIT:I am referring to trying this with the Amprex, I normally just see this skill getting used with the Soma when I had run with volts before. AKA using a fairly overwhelming gun, to further make it OP, versus the Amprex that has wildly variable damage and a tiny range, but some interesting mechanics(histscan chaining instantly). The damn thing can do from 1-1000 or so in the same trigger pull. I had just pulled Volt out of the retirement home, and now I feel like shelving him all over again.

 

The developer Bungie has an interesting idea they use: '30 seconds of fun'  This means was the last 30 seconds fun, and will the next 30 seconds be fun as well? It deals with the idea of engagement. You had a '30 seconds of fun' and you broke it, and this makes me disappointed. 

 

There were a few instances where this could be used in an abusive way, but otherwise it was a really creative utility that could only be taken advantage of if you specifically specced for it and had the mods to support it, which resulted in almost all of Volts offensive powers being weaker, and required the whole energy bar. It required investment to be really good. This is known as a trade off. In order to capitalize on something I found interesting, I had to curb the effectiveness of all my other powers. This is called player investment. Do I throw everything behind this one skill, and see all the different ways I can use it, or do I want a spread.  It is part of the things that make games interesting, player investment and player agency.

 

Granted using the Amprex I calculated a 3,096,576 highest theoretical with 7 shields up. That is a little ridiculous, but requires a perfect situation and a perfect spec, with a lot of damage mitigation factored out.  I while running an ODD got my highest crit of 400k with 7 shields and an imperfect spec for my Amprex as I was in the process of reformaing it. it was rank 17 with two formas. EDIT: On the very same run I also got 11's and 100's with the exact same spec and load out, IF you don't get it, the Amprex is a wildly variable gun... The math was done based on my gearing and an average damage of 80 (my damage is something like  64.2 and 16.7 or the like) and a 5.6x maximum base critical multiplier. FURTHER EDIT: I didn't think the responders on this page would not see what I was trying to get at, so I used informal speech. LET ME MAKE IT CLEAR: 3 MILLION DAMAGE IS TOOOOOOOO MUCH. I wasn't needing it or looking for it, I did that math after the patch rather than do hard testing as I no longer could. I was interested in seeing how ridiculous it could get. I like testing things and pushing limits just to see where the ceiling is.

 

I get why you did it, and I can respect you for your decision, even if I think it was a 'oh S#&$' knee jerk response and can't agree with it.

 

IF instead of removing the stacking you had changed the numbers to keeping the additive base damage bonus of 50%, but change the crit multiplier to add in an additive fashion versus multiplicative, say a 50% increase in critical damage per shield, not a multiplicative x2 per shield, EDIT: This is just simple easy to mentally calculate numbers, the numbers weren't the important part, the keeping an interesting mechanic was.... then it could have remained in place as a creative and unique mechanic, that rewarded the player for using your utilities in a creative way. It would have been powerful if used well, but not overpowered. It would have been creating a sort of Railgun. That is cool, what you did was not. RAILGUN! That is the part of the stacking mechanic that I found cool. It felt like I was creating a magic space ninja railgun.

 

 

I mean I could always go and use an overpowered weapon that doesn't require investment, or the compound application of mechanics to be interesting....like the Soma, Boltor Prime, Ogris, Penta, or Angstrum. 

 

I was just about to try some testing to see if I could come up with a new way to tackle T4D as there is already very little variation on the theme when it comes to doing those. I was sure I had an interesting alternative.... Oh well.

 

TL;DR You didn't fix a broken mechanic, you broke a creative mechanic, instead of correcting it into a great mechanic.

 

I have monetarily invested into this game, obviously I am a founder, and I don't regret that, and I still greatly respect what you guys have done/will do, but this kind of action is not why I respect you, nor why I had chose to invest. This just makes me disappointed.

 

Sincerely,

A dedicated, saddened fan,

Sir The Proper

 

I did a bunch of EDITING so that you might actually understand. I am not sure how it was unintelligible the first time, but I took the time to S-P-E-L-L it out for anyone that was confused.

Edited June 27, 2014 by SirProper

[BrotherIcarus]

Ye I fail to see the point it was an unintended thing that caused a tremendous amount of damage, thus it got fixed.

 

The alternate solution you suggested would of also bean monstrously OP the last thing we need is more damage. 

[Azawarau]

If your only sense of fun comes from infinite stacking then youre only looking to abuse game mechanics and your opinion isnt valid, wanted, or healthy for the game

Edited June 27, 2014 by Haldos
Cleaned up.

[Vunie]

so volt should be overpowered just cause you want? there was no reason to leave him that way some people were doing like 2million damage 

Edited June 26, 2014 by Met4lh34d

[Rekkou]

People like you are OP fan and not the fan of the frame itself.

 

I'd rather have people under appreciate my favorite frame rather than people using him only because he was broken OP.

[SIDESTRE4M]

Can't Nova do it too with antimatter drop?

 

Punching out about a million damage or so.

 

I can understand the nerf, though.

This shield trick is still viable.

[FitzSimmons]

LEAVE VOLT ALONEEEEEE!!!! HE IS MY PRECIOUS!!!!! LEAVE HIM ALONEEEEE!!!!!

now multiplier doesn't work when volt isn't host

[SirProper]

I want to find you and do things i cant speak about much on the forums without receiving a banhammer for

 

One of which includes giving you bad directions to that place youve been trying to find for an hour

 

If your only sense of fun comes from infinite stacking then youre only looking to abuse game mechanics and your opinion isnt valid, wanted, or healthy for the game

Infinite stacking? No my fun came from a simple use of mechanics creatively. IT is valid to want to apply mechanics in a creative fashion. To find depth in simple tools used creatively. 

Your hostility over an expressed opinion is what is unhealthy for any game/gaming community. I would be glad to accept criticism, for instance: Hey I think you are wrong about this, your solution is still OP, maybe you should rethink that and run some more numbers. 

 

The hostility and toxicity is completely unnecessary. 

 

The math I quoted was theoretical that I did after the fact. I had never intended to take it there. I never wanted God mode or easy mode.  But if the proper application or force yielded fantastic results due to creative application, that is something that we should value in the game, as it promotes people to look for creative solutions to any of the problems we face.   

 

To be honest if I had a group of friends that I played with regularly and was able to test things out on a regular basis, you would find there is a TON of stuff that could be overpowered by how insanely it trivializes content.  

 

I didn't want infinite stacking. I don't want an I win button, but I do want to the opportunity to use tools/mechanics creatively.  

 

Hell even if it was simply 25% crit bonus done additively with a 25% bonus damage(EDIT: IF you can't do the math this equals a weaker buff than the current intended single shield bonus. I would take 3 of these shields to get the bonus damage higher than a single shield now, and it would take a ridiculous 8 shields to equal the critical damage bonus currently intended.), or any number of variables/combination of variables, the ability to stack and create a railgun like mechanic even if it had a limit of three is significantly more interesting. It requires set up, investment of resources, and is only viable situationally. 

 

EDITED: At this point I don't know why. I assumed that people in the forums could read, I guess that makes me an &#!.

Edited June 27, 2014 by SirProper

[SIDESTRE4M]

Just go demand rework like everyone else.

Don't bother us with creative usage of his tools. ;D

[SirProper]

People like you are OP fan and not the fan of the frame itself.

 

I'd rather have people under appreciate my favorite frame rather than people using him only because he was broken OP.

 

No I am not a fan of OP. I pointed out that I wanted something the masses weren't doing. I am a fan of mechanics and play, it doesn't matter what frame it comes from. The reason I have all frames is because I like to experiment and explore the interesting connections that you can make between frames. 

 

The reason I wasn't a "fan" of the frame as you put it, wasn't because I didn't like the design or theme, it was because the frame was entirely too situational. A number 4 that was wildly inconsistent or a one off ( great one time, but less so another) originally when I got the frame the number 1 ability hit one target. That was essentially useless against waves of enemies/hordes. The speed boost was situational at best and not everyone likes it and it affects the whole team. Great for getting through a level if everyone is as comfortable with the speed boost and doesn't end up running into walls, but completely pointless in anything not involved in rushing. Sure it speeds up attack speeds, but if you aren't able to control it or you are impeding the abilities of your teammates, how is that valuable?

 

With a significant resource cost, in energy, you could do something that not only helped the team, but could be used in interesting ways especially if combined with other frames abilities. 

 

No I am not a fan of the frame, I am a fan of the game, and the work that DE has put into a game to create interesting powers that are intended to interact with each other, and have interesting/explosive results. 

 

I can certainly amp up shock and go around spamming the ability and letting the 100% chance 50% shock damage status splash create compound damage as the power chains about over a broad area, that is simple anyone can do it given they have the mods. IS that what you see? No you have a ton of people running around as rhino playing stomp happy, nova spam, and so much more. People use the easily attained to rack up their virtual kill count. I was interested in seeing what I could do with a simple ability that I rarely see used.

 

I am so disappointed in this "vocal" portion of the community right now.

 

We should want depth, and the mechanics that can give that.

 

I feel like none of the people that responded actually read the original post.

 

I don't care about being OP. I didn't want them to leave it as is, what I wanted was them to keep a mechanic that was interesting and find a way to have it work, without breaking the game..

 

Hell to quote myself, "TL;DR You didn't fix a broken mechanic, you broke a creative mechanic, instead of correcting it into a great mechanic."  

INSTEAD of CORRECTING it into a great mechanic.  

 

I acknowledged that it was out of whack, and had potential to abuse. That is why I suggested a fix. 

 

Hell as it stands right now, volt has the superior projectile shield right now. With creative use it makes it almost impossible to hit a defense objective. It is only affected by duration and has no health value, you can shoot through it in either direction, enemies can't, meaning less of people accidentally blowing themselves up due to the one way nature of frosts globe. Other than the slow affect it is better in every way compared to frosts. 

 

Your right I am not a fan of Volt. I am a fan of the game and all the interesting mechanics that DE has put into it, I am trying to communicate that I am sad that this mechanic wasn't salvaged into something cooler. 

 

Look at a Railgun in real life. The object passes through multiple layers of electromagnetic force and is accelerated, more for each layer it is squeezed through, giving it more and more force the more of these layers it goes through. That is cool, this mechanic was cool, but just numerically off, it could have been improved not scrapped.

 

I even pointed out that I could go use the weapons of the powercreep. Weapons that as it stands does plenty to already trivialize content. 

wow I am really disappointed by the response so far. with some notable exceptions....

 

LEAVE VOLT ALONEEEEEE!!!! HE IS MY PRECIOUS!!!!! LEAVE HIM ALONEEEEE!!!!!

now multiplier doesn't work when volt isn't host

 

I like him, EDIT: and this guy:

 

Just go demand rework like everyone else.

Don't bother us with creative usage of his tools. ;D

 

Why is this hard for any of you to understand.?

Edited June 27, 2014 by SirProper

[Khranitel]

So, pressing 3 n times is now called 'creative'.

Ok.

[Rekkou]

"snip"

 

No need to waste your time with sugar coating, what you actually want is very obvious. You ditched Volt all of this time and he suddenly become interesting because OP as hell bug? Even with the shield stacking, his gameplay doesn't even change, it only changes the numbers on the screen.

[SirProper]

You know what, I was working on another long post trying to get there to be better understanding about what I was trying to communicate, but I just got to the point while editing that I just said F*** it why bother.

To you Rekkou you have no understanding of who I am or why I did/do what I do, but let me inform you that you are wrong. If I had wanted OP all the time I would have been playing Nova. OP bores me. On my account Mag is my most used. It was also the first frame I picked, because its description was, "do damage to enemies through unconventional means." You can usually find me on Loki, Nyx, or Hydroid running a non tentacle optimized build. I like his puddle the best, it is fun. I prefer team mechanics and teamwork. The shield, now that it is larger, I realized that I could actually use it for something now, something that helped the team. Then I found something that seemed interesting, I didn't need it to be OP I would be happy if casting 3 shields got you to 100% bonus damage and 200% critical which is only a minor buff compared to what casting one is right now.

My favorite weapons are not the Boltor Prime, Ogris, Penta, Angrstrum, Soma, or things that make the game easy or boring, even though I have gotten all of those. My most used weapons are the dual Vastos.

You know nothing about me. You have apparently no idea what I want.


Khranitel, no pushing the same button is not a creative action. In fact it is so easy you can do it. In fact you do it every time you play warframe. Guess you aren't creative when you play warframe.

Any action seen apart from execution or presentation, will ultimately be devoid of creativity, but even hitting the same note three times on a piano can sound dramatically different when you start adding in other factors. Time, length of note, and whether you are hitting a dampening pedal all change how just hitting the same key 3 times sounds.

What makes it creative is how you use it, but I am sure you already knew that.

Good day sirs...

Edited June 26, 2014 by SirProper

[shut]

People like you are OP fan and not the fan of the frame itself.

Edited June 26, 2014 by SortaRandom

[Azawarau]

Infinite stacking? No my fun came from a simple use of mechanics creatively. IT is valid to want to apply mechanics in a creative fashion. To find depth in simple tools used creatively. 

Your hostility over an expressed opinion is what is unhealthy for any game/gaming community. I would be glad to accept criticism, for instance: Hey I think you are wrong about this, your solution is still OP, maybe you should rethink that and run some more numbers. 

 

The hostility and toxicity is completely unnecessary. 

 

The math I quoted was theoretical that I did after the fact. I had never intended to take it there. I never wanted God mode or easy mode.  But if the proper application or force yielded fantastic results due to creative application, that is something that we should value in the game, as it promotes people to look for creative solutions to any of the problems we face.   

 

To be honest if I had a group of friends that I played with regularly and was able to test things out on a regular basis, you would find there is a TON of stuff that could be overpowered by how insanely it trivializes content.  

 

I didn't want infinite stacking. I don't want an I win button, but I do want to the opportunity to use tools/mechanics creatively.  

 

Hell even if it was simply 25% crit bonus done additively with a 25% bonus damage, or any number of variables/combination of variables, the ability to stack and create a railgun like mechanic even if it had a limit of three is significantly more interesting. It requires set up, investment of resources, and is only viable situationally. 

You keep saying creative application like youre doing anything differently before than now

 

With stacking = 3-10 shields in one spot and shoot through for ridiculous damage

 

Without stacking = Use a single shield and shoot through it for nice buffed damage

 

The literal only difference is how often you press 3

 

Its no more creative

 

Its just a cover for what youre really after

 

And i dont mean to come off as hostile but when i see a post like this thats obviously sugarcoating broken easy mode i cant help but point out the obvious

 

No I am not a fan of OP. I pointed out that I wanted something the masses weren't doing. I am a fan of mechanics and play, it doesn't matter what frame it comes from. The reason I have all frames is because I like to experiment and explore the interesting connections that you can make between frames. 

 

The reason I wasn't a "fan" of the frame as you put it, wasn't because I didn't like the design or theme, it was because the frame was entirely too situational. A number 4 that was wildly inconsistent or a one off ( great one time, but less so another) originally when I got the frame the number 1 ability hit one target. That was essentially useless against waves of enemies/hordes. The speed boost was situational at best and not everyone likes it and it affects the whole team. Great for getting through a level if everyone is as comfortable with the speed boost and doesn't end up running into walls, but completely pointless in anything not involved in rushing. Sure it speeds up attack speeds, but if you aren't able to control it or you are impeding the abilities of your teammates, how is that valuable?

 

With a significant resource cost, in energy, you could do something that not only helped the team, but could be used in interesting ways especially if combined with other frames abilities. 

 

No I am not a fan of the frame, I am a fan of the game, and the work that DE has put into a game to create interesting powers that are intended to interact with each other, and have interesting/explosive results. 

 

I can certainly amp up shock and go around spamming the ability and letting the 1005 chance 50% shock damage status splash create compound damage as the power chains about over a broad area, that is simple anyone can do it given they have the mods. IS that what you see? No you have a ton of people running around as rhino playing stomp happy, nova spam, and so much more. People use the easily attained to rack up their virtual kill count. I was interested in seeing what I could do with a simple ability that I rarely see used.

 

I am so disappointed in this "vocal" portion of the community right now.

 

We should want depth, and the mechanics that can give that.

 

I feel like none of the people that responded actually read the original post.

 

I don't care about being OP. I didn't want them to leave it as is, what I wanted was them to keep a mechanic that was interesting and find a way to have it work, without breaking the game..

 

Hell to quote myself, "TL;DR You didn't fix a broken mechanic, you broke a creative mechanic, instead of correcting it into a great mechanic."  

INSTEAD of CORRECTING it into a great mechanic.  

 

I acknowledged that it was out of whack, and had potential to abuse. That is why I suggested a fix. 

 

Hell as it stands right now, volt has the superior projectile shield right now. With creative use it makes it almost impossible to hit a defense objective. It is only affected by duration and has no health value, you can shoot through it in either direction, enemies can't, meaning less of people accidentally blowing themselves up due to the one way nature of frosts globe. Other than the slow affect it is better in every way compared to frosts. 

 

Your right I am not a fan of Volt. I am a fan of the game and all the interesting mechanics that DE has put into it, I am trying to communicate that I am sad that this mechanic wasn't salvaged into something cooler. 

 

Look at a Railgun in real life. The object passes through multiple layers of electromagnetic force and is accelerated, more for each layer it is squeezed through, giving it more and more force the more of these layers it goes through. That is cool, this mechanic was cool, but just a bit numerically off, it could have been improved not scrapped.

 

I even pointed out that I could go use the weapons of the powercreep. Weapons that as it stands does plenty to already trivialize content. 

wow I am really disappointed by the response so far. with some notable exceptions....

 

LEAVE VOLT ALONEEEEEE!!!! HE IS MY PRECIOUS!!!!! LEAVE HIM ALONEEEEE!!!!!

now multiplier doesn't work when volt isn't host

 

I like him, EDIT: and this guy:

 

Just go demand rework like everyone else.

Don't bother us with creative usage of his tools. ;D

 

Why is this hard for any of you to understand.?

# 1 hit stuns many enemies now without interrupting anything you do so its utility is wildly high

 

# 2 is a utility melee speed buff that isnt really situational since you should always be moving and its helpful. It also casts really fast again without interrupting anything youre doing

 

# 3 is useful for obvious reasons

 

# 4 is just an amazing AoE stun

 

Powers dont need to have damage to be good and volt proves that more than well enough

 

Again the only thing making volt "fun" for you is stacking shield for damage

 

And i say that because thats all stacking shields does differently than non stacking shields

 

You know what, I was working on another long post trying to get there to be better understanding about what I was trying to communicate, but I just got to the point while editing that I just said F*** it why bother.

To you Rekkou you have no understanding of who I am or why I did/do what I do, but let me inform you that you are wrong. If I had wanted OP all the time I would have been playing Nova. OP bores me. On my account Mag is my most used. It was also the first frame I picked, because its description was, "do damage to enemies through unconventional means." You can usually find me on Loki, Nyx, or Hydroid running a non tentacle optimized build. I like his puddle the best, it is fun. I prefer team mechanics and teamwork. The shield, now that it is larger, I realized that I could actually use it for something now, something that helped the team. Then I found something that seemed interesting, I didn't need it to be OP I would be happy if casting 3 shields got you to 100% bonus damage and 200% critical which is only a minor buff compared to what casting one is right now.

My favorite weapons are not the Boltor Prime, Ogris, Penta, Angrstrum, Soma, or things that make the game easy or boring, even though I have gotten all of those. My most used weapons are the dual Vastos.

You know nothing about me. You have apparently no idea what I want.

Khranitel, no pushing the same button is not a creative action. In fact it is so easy you can do it. In fact you do it every time you play warframe. Guess you aren't creative when you play warframe.

Any action seen apart from execution or presentation, will ultimately be devoid of creativity, but even hitting the same note three times on a piano can sound dramatically different when you start adding in other factors. Time, length of note, and whether you are hitting a dampening pedal all change how just hitting the same key 3 times sounds.

What makes it creative is how you use it, but I am sure you already knew that.

Good day sirs...

You can leave calling the community toxic but in the end half of the toxicity in this thread is coming right from you and is aimed towards warframe itself

[AyeDog9000]

I'd be fine witha restored multiplier if it multiplied it by less with each subsequent shield. Each shield adding 50% less damage than the one before it.

 

Yea.. no? Anyone?

[SirProper]

Azawarau:

 

Saying someone is part of the toxic problem, when the material is just spewed back without good comprehension, is pointless and unhelpful.

Allow me to elucidate some things for you.

 

I do not want an OP Mechanic. 

 

I have suggested multiple times that I would be fine with it, Volt's shield, being reduced BELOW what it currently is even now,  I even suggested as low as 25% damage bonus, and a measly 25% critical damage bonus, I have even suggest capping the effect, or maximum quantity at 3.  That leaves it LOWER than what it currently is at now. 

 

The thing I am looking at is having basically 2 mechanic choices. 2 different ways that the player can enact agency on an mechanic. One it has all the defense benefit, bit a modest to small damage increase,  Something to provide cover but not be something that is used a a major damage tool.

 

With a limit of three you are then presented with the option of, do I use all three for coverage on the target I am protecting or am I using this as a damage utility. Magic Space Ninja Railgun! huehuehue. So am I in a situation I can set up 3 for a 75% damage bonus +75% critical damage bonus to make an aggressive hard point or am I just needing objective/utility.  

 

This isn't me saying ZOMG look how creative I am, it builds a creative toolset for people to use in different ways. Technically what I am suggesting requires more work, and is less able to be abused.

 

I don't know how long you have been playing, but the #1 used to be a single target, which is what I was referring to. Now it is dramatically improved, but I didn't necessarily like it enough to feel like playing Volt had real team function.

 

You may love speed, not everyone does. I am just one of many that feel it is somewhat useful at times, but not something I am concerned with speccing into or building around it intentionally.

 

I don't like the Overload mechanic because it is fickle. I see something that looks like electronics, but I don't know what they specify as electronics. The damage is okay, but regardless originally the #4 often resulted in the death of Volt as it held you as a helpless victim during the whole duration, elevated and exposed. Back when it was like this, I doubt I could count how many Volts I ended up seeing die/having to revive, from the use of their number 4.

 

The shield also used to be a tiny thing that was at best good for one person to use, and only half successful for cover.

 

Those things contributed to me feeling very MEH about the frame, I have never from the beginning of my time here, been THATS MAH FRAME! I started with mag because it sounded interesting. Do damage in unconventional ways, that I liked as a concept, but I systematically acquired all the frames, with rhino being my last as he felt pretty cheap to me, because I wanted to try them all, see what I could do with each of them, and see how I could use abilities with other frames in order to achieve even more. 

 

I don't know why your here, or why you care about warframe, or if you have believed in the idea enough to monetarily support them. I started supporting them as a founder because I saw that they were trying to do something different. Even their trailers from the beginning all tried to show the frames using abilities together. I saw the idea of Co-op play that made a difference and I thought it was an idea worth believing in.

 

At this point I am done. If you can't get what I am saying, or you want to just 'not get it', and read something else into it, despite my many attempts to try and clear things up for one and all, then whatever. I said my piece, whether you understand it or not is unimportant. I hope DE takes a moment to read what I have put down, but I am on design council as well, and I have seem many great Ideas shot down by a derth of ignorance.

 

I will try just one more time to get this across. I thought it was funny when it was broken and it was amusing to see how far I could push it, but that in no way means that I wanted it to stay like it was. What I want/wanted was to simply see the mechanic of using multiple shield layers as an investment of player agency and have meaning.  I did not want infinite stacking. I do not need to have the individual buff as high as it is now. In fact it could still be even lower per shield. I would like to see a limit to the number of shields Volt can make, so the use of the power has more meaning. Do I use it defensively or aggressively? Give the player more depth with the same mechanic, something that encourages creativity of use, the when and how to use it.

 

Good day sirs, I am done. Thank you to those of you who read and understood. I appreciate it.

Edited June 27, 2014 by SirProper

[-SLX-J3tAc3]

Very well said, SirProper! Thank you for sharing and refreshing my mind with a well-written piece.

[Tigercloud]

Here's some constructive criticism for you.

 

I wasn't able to play around with this bug, but I'm guessing you could stack all the shields in the same place and get its bonus. This is not creative. I get what you're saying with choice between using 3 shields for either defense or a damage buff, but I don't think that's a particularly good or creative choice either, because you would just spam the shields in the same spot for the damage bonus; unless it was greater than the current damage/crit bonus for Electric Shield, why do it? And if it was greater, then simply stacking all the shields in the same place is a mindless gameplay mechanic, giving up a few seconds of pressing 3 for what is essentially an ES buff.

 

Here, in my opinion, would be a better creative solution:

 

1. Make it so there is a cap on damage/crit multiplier for ES, and have it so this multiplier scaled in accordance to THE DISTANCE BETWEEN SHIELDS. In other words, if you had two shields that were 20 meters apart, you might have a 4x multiplier, while if you had five shields 10 meters apart, you'd have at best a 2x multiplier. This would make ES, for your purpose, tactical and strategic in that you'd have to make a railgun corridor by correctly spacing your ESes a sufficient distance apart, which takes actual thought or consideration instead of just spamming 3 several times in the same place.

 

Actually what I think would be a fun mechanic (if not entirely useful all the time) is if ES could be used to bend weapons fire according to its angle. So if you had multiple ESes set up, you could redirect your gunfire around corners if you put them at the correct angles. As I said, not entirely too useful, but funny as hell.

[Azawarau]

Azawarau:

 

Saying someone is part of the toxic problem, when the material is just spewed back without good comprehension, is pointless and unhelpful.

Allow me to elucidate some things for you.

 

I do not want an OP Mechanic. 

 

I have suggested multiple times that I would be fine with it, Volt's shield, being reduced BELOW what it currently is even now,  I even suggested as low as 25% damage bonus, and a measly 25% critical damage bonus, I have even suggest capping the effect, or maximum quantity at 3.  That leaves it LOWER than what it currently is at now. 

 

The thing I am looking at is having basically 2 mechanic choices. 2 different ways that the player can enact agency on an mechanic. One it has all the defense benefit, bit a modest to small damage increase,  Something to provide cover but not be something that is used a a major damage tool.

 

With a limit of three you are then presented with the option of, do I use all three for coverage on the target I am protecting or am I using this as a damage utility. Magic Space Ninja Railgun! huehuehue. So am I in a situation I can set up 3 for a 75% damage bonus +75% critical damage bonus to make an aggressive hard point or am I just needing objective/utility.  

 

This isn't me saying ZOMG look how creative I am, it builds a creative toolset for people to use in different ways. Technically what I am suggesting requires more work, and is less able to be abused.

 

I don't know how long you have been playing, but the #1 used to be a single target, which is what I was referring to. Now it is dramatically improved, but I didn't necessarily like it enough to feel like playing Volt had real team function.

 

You may love speed, not everyone does. I am just one of many that feel it is somewhat useful at times, but not something I am concerned with speccing into or building around it intentionally.

 

I don't like the Overload mechanic because it is fickle. I see something that looks like electronics, but I don't know what they specify as electronics. The damage is okay, but regardless originally the #4 often resulted in the death of Volt as it held you as a helpless victim during the whole duration, elevated and exposed. Back when it was like this, I doubt I could count how many Volts I ended up seeing die/having to revive, from the use of their number 4.

 

The shield also used to be a tiny thing that was at best good for one person to use, and only half successful for cover.

 

Those things contributed to me feeling very MEH about the frame, I have never from the beginning of my time here, been THATS MAH FRAME! I started with mag because it sounded interesting. Do damage in unconventional ways, that I liked as a concept, but I systematically acquired all the frames, with rhino being my last as he felt pretty cheap to me, because I wanted to try them all, see what I could do with each of them, and see how I could use abilities with other frames in order to achieve even more. 

 

I don't know why your here, or why you care about warframe, or if you have believed in the idea enough to monetarily support them. I started supporting them as a founder because I saw that they were trying to do something different. Even their trailers from the beginning all tried to show the frames using abilities together. I saw the idea of Co-op play that made a difference and I thought it was an idea worth believing in.

 

At this point I am done. If you can't get what I am saying, or you want to just 'not get it', and read something else into it, despite my many attempts to try and clear things up for one and all, then whatever. I said my piece, whether you understand it or not is unimportant. I hope DE takes a moment to read what I have put down, but I am on design council as well, and I have seem many great Ideas shot down by a derth of ignorance.

 

I will try just one more time to get this across. I thought it was funny when it was broken and it was amusing to see how far I could push it, but that in no way means that I wanted it to stay like it was. What I want/wanted was to simply see the mechanic of using multiple shield layers as an investment of player agency and have meaning.  I did not want infinite stacking. I do not need to have the individual buff as high as it is now. In fact it could still be even lower per shield. I would like to see a limit to the number of shields Volt can make, so the use of the power has more meaning. Do I use it defensively or aggressively? Give the player more depth with the same mechanic, something that encourages creativity of use, the when and how to use it.

 

Good day sirs, I am done. Thank you to those of you who read and understood. I appreciate it.

If thats the case then why make this post at all?

 

Your entire complaint was about how you cant stack anymore which is entirely OP by the way and you labelled it creative

 

If you were any type of against OP you wouldnt have so much as mentioned that and would have had a thread about what youve been trying to fix your mistakes with

 

Azawaraus calling it

 

OP is full of BS and trying to save face

[Janzer]

I had been letting my Volt collect dust for quite awhile. I found him boring and uninteresting and the wonky @$$ niche tool of rushers, but then I took the time to really look at the mechanics of his abilities, and found something interesting. Something that the masses weren't doing. Something fun! Something I could hone into a polished diamond with some creative application.

 

Ah you came across the fact, like I did early on, that he's an amazing Melee Fighter! Awesome mate :D

 

Not every single frame is for every single type of game play nor will fit every mindset of player. I think stacking shields would be a nice little boost, if there was a REASONABLE cap on how many shields you could stack.

 

The most important thing is this, DE recognized a problem as pointed out by the community and fixed it quickly as the potential for abuse was extremely high. The problem was found quickly, hence hotfixed quickly.

[SirProper]

Janzer:

yeah I agree that the fix was a good thing. I just wish it had been a fix that did something with why it was working the way it was. I mean Way back when they had all the original issues with the shield, like if you had two up it blocked bullets, or it prevented many types of projectiles, it didn't seem to make sense. Why wouldn't everything go through it? IF one shield had a particular buff, then why wouldn't two be better? It just didn't make sense with how the mechanic was described, and it didn't seem to mix with the quasilogical nature of the object. 

 

 

-SLX-J3tAc3:

Thanks for the support. It is really nice to see people getting it, even if it isn't everyone.

 

Azawarau:

Could you please stop just spewing huge chunks of text with quoting, and at least narrow down to what the hell you are criticism me for?

Also you are wrong. Thanks. You have no idea who I am or have any understanding of my reasoning. If you would like to provide constructive criticism that would be great, calling me a liar or being generally hostile is unappreciated and unwelcome. I would ask that you desist clogging up the thread with respew and character bashing.

I put a ton of time into providing tons of editing trying to highlight what I was getting at, as there had to have been confusion with what I wrote in the first place. Why the hell would I care about saving face? I don't know you, you don't know me, and I doubt I ever will, whether or not that is a good thing. This is an online forum which provides plenty of anonymity, If you think I care about how you view me your wrong. What you think of me is not important, but what is important is seeing if my ideas can come across effectively so that we can all think about how to improve the player experience, add player agency, and improve the investment depth on player mechanics. Check out this youtube channel Extra Credits ( https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCODtTcd5M1JavPCOr_Uydg ) You might get a better view of the person I am or why I cared in the first place.

 

 

Jiufengbao:

Yeah. I know what you mean. I just didn't hadn't tried to explain it like that, as one, I was already dealing with my own personal feelings at the time of the first post, (I was still in the testing phase and wanted to see more of why it was working that way, and how it affected different metrics.That was a real bummer. I love testing things out.) and two I started to feel under assault and was having a knee jerk moment of my own. It feels really hard to respond to people who don't even indicate a shred of understanding after I put so much time into it in the first place, and at least for me I really want them to "get it' even if they didn't care about what I was saying in the first place. *sigh* Really just need to learn how to ignore that better, but in this case I responded to it, because I thought it might help even one more person understand it and it might be worth it. (Since you took the time to post with your ideas, I kinda feel like it was. You made my day.)

 

Also I really like your idea. I know that while I was first testing it, knowing that it was behaving the way it was. I was just mashing the skill execution key( I play with a controller though I am on PC)

If this was the system where distance played a role into it, then I would definitely not want a cap, but I think this is a far superior idea to make the mechanic into something really cool.

I am not sure with current maps how effectively it would work to have 3 shields spaced out twenty meters or even two for that matter, which is another reason I hadn't suggested it.

A railgun doesn't need a ton of space between the layers in order for it to work, maybe a smaller buff but it is granted within 5 meters or so. EDIT:I think I missed that part in your post originally(the two different options), but with the whole quasilogical aspect of it, the 5 shields spread over the smaller area should have a higher value, IF you had 5 versus two (energy investment) and 2 really spread out would be significantly less effective from a railgun perspective. If we are spitballing random maths here I would say 3 spread over 10 meter space should be at a max value of 100% bonus damage and 100-200% critical bonus. That again deals with the more consistent damage and provides some option to take out the more inconsistent spikey damage. That would make it easier to implement as a viable mechanic for more situations I think. That was one reason I was also suggesting a smaller buff. Packing them on top of each other isn't a ton of investment time wise or mechanic wise despite the energy consumption. Which is why I suggested the much smaller buff of 25% and 25% which if you had a cap of three, you would have more consistent damage and less spikey damage by having the larger metric be bonus damage rather than crit. That removes the Explosive, exploity nature of it and gives it a more solid showing.

 

Now my favorite part of your post. I have no idea how they would implement using the shield to bend bullet trajectories, but that sounds awesome. The aiming might get a little crazy too, but maybe using a wide spread shotgun could become a viable mechanic to build on that. You know firing a spray/hail of bullets and having them splash around the corner at increased velocities. RAILGUN SHOTGUN!! sounds awesome.

 

Thanks for the feeback, Jiufengbao. I really appreciate the time you took to help with the idea of improving a mechanic versus the much simpler/safer fix of cutting it out. 

Edited June 27, 2014 by SirProper

[APBladeX]

The intended fix was for the shields to stop stacking, but now projectiles no longer convert to hit-scan.

[SirProper]

The intended fix was for the shields to stop stacking, but now projectiles no longer convert to hit-scan.

Really? I hadn't noticed that weapons no longer behave as hitscan, well I was trying a Boltor Prime through it after the patch and I noticed it wasn't hitscan, but I thought that might just be a boltor/bow thing. I thought that was one of the best utility features of the shield. I think that is not good at all.

[Azawarau]

Azawarau:

Could you please stop just spewing huge chunks of text with quoting, and at least narrow down to what the hell you are criticism me for?

Also you are wrong. Thanks. You have no idea who I am or have any understanding of my reasoning. If you would like to provide constructive criticism that would be great, calling me a liar or being generally hostile is unappreciated and unwelcome. I would ask that you desist clogging up the thread with respew and character bashing.

I put a ton of time into providing tons of editing trying to highlight what I was getting at, as there had to have been confusion with what I wrote in the first place. Why the hell would I care about saving face? I don't know you, you don't know me, and I doubt I ever will, whether or not that is a good thing. This is an online forum which provides plenty of anonymity, If you think I care about how you view me your wrong. What you think of me is not important, but what is important is seeing if my ideas can come across effectively so that we can all think about how to improve the player experience, add player agency, and improve the investment depth on player mechanics. Check out this youtube channel Extra Credits ( https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCODtTcd5M1JavPCOr_Uydg ) You might get a better view of the person I am or why I cared in the first place.

Ok ill TL;DR it

 

Youre saying one thing but meaning another in the OP