Looorreeee

[DJ_Redwire]

Yeah, I guess. That, or their loyalty is committing their body parts to the Zanuka project. Because I don't remember Zanuka displaying Warframe powers.

 

Frost's freeze is the most obvious one, along with a modified version of Anti-matter drop. Additionally, Alad uses Radial Blind and Electric Shield. 

[Auxeus]

This is a lore story i'll go for;

 

Lotus is the first Orokin subframe AI android programmed to tie to Warframes and watch over the world's 'balance', to make sure no one be more powerful that can lead to one race's destruction or extinction. The project was programmed for balancing. However she came into sense Orokin is a threat to herself as a AI race destruction, lead to this Orokin extinction. She have access to all Warframes and possibly manipulated them a fake story that plot Tenno an objective to murder the Emperiors to keep herself alive. Highly advanced AI with consciousness acts with instinct, do whatever to survive with expendable resources until threat is dismissed. Since Orokin designed Lotus they are hers greatest threat to shut her down.

 

After the event, Lotus continue to function as programmed.. Or even secretly advancing herself.

[vaugahn]

This is a lore story i'll go for;

 

Lotus is the first Orokin subframe AI android programmed to tie to Warframes and watch over the world's 'balance', to make sure no one be more powerful that can lead to one race's destruction or extinction. The project was programmed for balancing. However she came into sense Orokin is a threat to herself as a AI race destruction, lead to this Orokin extinction. She have access to all Warframes and possibly manipulated them a fake story that plot Tenno an objective to murder the Emperiors to keep herself alive. Highly advanced AI with consciousness acts with instinct, do whatever to survive with expendable resources until threat is dismissed. Since Orokin designed Lotus they are hers greatest threat to shut her down.

 

After the event, Lotus continue to function as programmed.. Or even secretly advancing herself.

 

This actually works really well. We know the orokin can build some sort of tactical AI (the neural sentries), maybe lotus is a specialized neural sentry designed to coordinate warframes?

[NevanChambers]

The Void is like "Hyperspace" in other sci-fi settings, it allows you to get from A-to-B breaking the speed of light. The implication here is that there are "energies" in the Void but that the Orokin had technology to _shield_ ships from those energies hence why the Ember codex entry suggests a mis-jump for the Zariman

We have _ample_ evidence that the Orokin were _very_ comfortable with using the Void as a storage medium (The Towers) and a transport Medium (Ships and Solar Rails) so they must have been very confident of their shielding.

The question is what happens to those exposed to the void while _unshielded_ which is, IMHO quite obviously, the point of the Ember codex entry. As we are told most of the time they are never seen again but in the engineered case we are given, the ship returns.

Also we have Vor, who is a clone and as such is _highly_ unlikely to posses any kind of X-Factor and yet now possesses an number of abilities he attributes to the power of the Void through the specific Key he has had plugged into his armour/life support for some time now.

Finally, the fall of the Earth was IMHO not supposed to be long after the events of Dark Sector, long enough for a lucky, prepared few to make it off the planet to a nearby station but nowhere near enough time to bring tech up to the level of the Orokin.

Vor does not make a good counter to my opinion that it is technocyte+void that gives the Tenno power. Yes he does have some crazy void energy powers, the key difference being he uses a key as a power source rather than being the power source himself as is the case with with the Tenno. His exisitnce doesn't say anything about the nature of Tenno.

You make some good points that I will have to consider when tweaking my theories but I can't abandon them. No one has ever managed to even answer let alone satisfactorily why a lone black operative who very few in contemporary time_should_know about and who random people several thousands of year later should have almost_no_hope of knowing about would suddenly have the greatest fighting force that mankind and at least one other species had ever encountered named after him. Seems a little too random if you ask me.

In the end though most of our opinions aren't any more or less valid given the current information.

Edited July 1, 2014 by NevanChambers

[OniDax]

Frost's freeze is the most obvious one, along with a modified version of Anti-matter drop. Additionally, Alad uses Radial Blind and Electric Shield. 

 

That still doesn't mean there's a live Tenno. You're forgetting the Eximus enemies that use abilities.

[OniDax]

This is a lore story i'll go for;

 

Lotus is the first Orokin subframe AI android programmed to tie to Warframes and watch over the world's 'balance', to make sure no one be more powerful that can lead to one race's destruction or extinction. The project was programmed for balancing. However she came into sense Orokin is a threat to herself as a AI race destruction, lead to this Orokin extinction. She have access to all Warframes and possibly manipulated them a fake story that plot Tenno an objective to murder the Emperiors to keep herself alive. Highly advanced AI with consciousness acts with instinct, do whatever to survive with expendable resources until threat is dismissed. Since Orokin designed Lotus they are hers greatest threat to shut her down.

 

After the event, Lotus continue to function as programmed.. Or even secretly advancing herself.

 

She refers to the Orokin as tyrants. So I don't think the Lotus is some evil AI plotting against the Orokin. Leave out the "manipulated them a fake story" and "to keep herself alive" parts. This whole "Lotus is evil" conspiracy is just that. It is baseless. She probably detected that the system was out of balance because only the Orokin tyrants remained, where as before, there was balance between the Sentients and the Orokin.

[NevanChambers]

That still doesn't mean there's a live Tenno. You're forgetting the Eximus enemies that use abilities.

Wow you are REALLY opposed to this idea. Why is that? It's at least equally plausible to Alad build void energy generator. Actually given the well understood nature of cybernetics coupled with everyone being so mystified by the void I find it quite a bit more plausible.

Edited July 1, 2014 by NevanChambers

[DJ_Redwire]

That still doesn't mean there's a live Tenno. You're forgetting the Eximus enemies that use abilities.

 

Look back at my previous posts broskii - I said the exact opposite. In my opinion, a Zanuka is composed of individual Warframe parts and pieces mashed together and controlled like a remote control toy. 

[OniDax]

Wow you are REALLY opposed to this idea. Why is that? It's at least equally plausible to Alad build void energy generator.

 

Because it's a proxy. Sorry if I don't see anything where Zanuka wasn't anything other than an advanced proxy made out of Tenno parts. Not only that, but we've seen that the abilities aren't tied to the Tenno themselves, but to the mods, so this thing doesn't require a live Tenno.

[vaugahn]

She refers to the Orokin as tyrants. So I don't think the Lotus is some evil AI plotting against the Orokin. Leave out the "manipulated them a fake story" and "to keep herself alive" parts. This whole "Lotus is evil" conspiracy is just that. It is baseless. She probably detected that the system was out of balance because only the Orokin tyrants remained, where as before, there was balance between the Sentients and the Orokin.

 

How is "lotus is evil" a conspiracy? I've seen some pretty good theories pointing to us not exactly being good guys

[OniDax]

How is "lotus is evil" a conspiracy? I've seen some pretty good theories pointing to us not exactly being good guys

 

Funny. I'm pretty sure DE said that we were the good guys.

[vaugahn]

Funny. I'm pretty sure DE said that we were the good guys.

 

We're definitely the protagonists, but whether there are ANY "good guys" in the solar system is up for debate 

[OniDax]

We're definitely the protagonists, but whether there are ANY "good guys" in the solar system is up for debate 

 

No, I'm pretty sure DE said we were the "good guys".

[DJ_Redwire]

As far as I was aware, the official DE response to "Are we the good guys" was a smile and a shrug.  

[vaugahn]

No, I'm pretty sure DE said we were the "good guys".

 

We're silent space killers sabotaging and murdering across the system, grineer are a pseudo-fascist imperial state, and the corpus will stab each other in the back to turn a profit. I'm not sure any of us count as good guys.

[NevanChambers]

Because it's a proxy. Sorry if I don't see anything where Zanuka wasn't anything other than an advanced proxy made out of Tenno parts. Not only that, but we've seen that the abilities aren't tied to the Tenno themselves, but to the mods, so this thing doesn't require a live Tenno.

 

It also wasn't said it was just a regular proxy either. 

Interestingly enough they made a nice point to say that the Grineer couldn't make a warframe they had ripped a fresh Tenno out of work. If the Tenno isn't needed why was that?

If it's not the Tenno and just the mods then I suppose I'll jump in and get radial disarm and Iron Skin on my Vauban. Yeah I am being a little sarcastic here but you see my point. I think your giving a little too much lore importance to a game play conceit. 

Believe what you want and all but I'm sticking to the Aladstein theories until some other lore comes up to contradict it. It just makes for a better story. 

 

 

We're silent space killers sabotaging and murdering across the system, grineer are a pseudo-fascist imperial state, and the corpus will stab each other in the back to turn a profit. I'm not sure any of us count as good guys.

 

DESteve said the Tenno are the good guys no smile and shrug (this may have been an earlier stance but the devstream I mention is definitely more recent and the topic hasn't been revisited) no ambiguity at all the "good guys" those exact words. Furthermore when asked the perfectly valid question of whether or not there were other non-Grineer or Corpus humans in the system his response was "of course there are who do you think your working to protect". There isn't a great deal of ambiguity their either. 

Edited July 1, 2014 by NevanChambers

[vaugahn]

DESteve said the Tenno are the good guys no smile and shrug no ambiguity at all the "good guys" those exact words. Furthermore when asked the perfectly valid question of whether or not there were other non-Grineer or Corpus humans in the system his response was "of course there are who do you think your working to protect". There isn't a great deal of ambiguity their either. 

 

Ruk claims the grineer are protectors, and I assume the corpus are at least interested in keeping their civilians safe so they have someone to buy their products. I think this is one of those situations where many different theories can conflict even within the bounds of established fact, because while the tenno are technically the "good guys" that doesn't mean they're good guys. See the "grey and grey morality" page on TVTropes. 

[NevanChambers]

Ruk claims the grineer are protectors, and I assume the corpus are at least interested in keeping their civilians safe so they have someone to buy their products. I think this is one of those situations where many different theories can conflict even within the bounds of established fact, because while the tenno are technically the "good guys" that doesn't mean they're good guys. See the "grey and grey morality" page on TVTropes. 

We're not talking two in game characters who are individually justifying their actions here though. What the Tenno do they do to enemy combatants. While the Grineer oppress and the Corpus Exploit. I'm down for moral grey areas and all but I'm saying if my two feet were on the ground in this universe the Tenno are god sent heros. I don't think that the Grey and grey morality applies here in my opinion.

Edited July 1, 2014 by NevanChambers

[vaugahn]

We're not talking two in game characters who are individually justifying their actions here though. What the Tenno do they do to enemy combatants. While the Grineer oppress and the Corpus Exploit. I'm down for moral grey areas and all but I'm saying if my two feet were on the ground in this universe the Tenno are god sent heros. I don't think that the Grey and grey morality applies here in my opinion.

 

In my opinion the tenno don't seem to be quite the saviors they're supposed to be, but that could just be gameplay intruding on lore. Beyond that, the tenno don't even seem to be particularly interested in eliminating any of the factions; they only go after prisoners who have some sort of tactical value, and they seem perfectly content to sit back and watch the grineer and corpus fight. I can see it going either way, I just personally think that shades of grey are more compelling.

[NevanChambers]

In my opinion the tenno don't seem to be quite the saviors they're supposed to be, but that could just be gameplay intruding on lore. Beyond that, the tenno don't even seem to be particularly interested in eliminating any of the factions; they only go after prisoners who have some sort of tactical value, and they seem perfectly content to sit back and watch the grineer and corpus fight. I can see it going either way, I just personally think that shades of grey are more compelling.

Yeah that's one way of looking at it. The other is that by maintaining the balance they are requiring both sides to focus on each other as well as the Tenno leaving their attentions off of the good people back home. It doesn't seem like there's a lot of collateral damage as the warfront areas are completely devoid of anything but combatants. Again some of this gets really murky since the civilians though we are assured are there don't have any presence. How much of that is deliberate v time constraints. It's part of what makes lore in warframe so frustrating you're never sure what's just "nope just didn't have time to add that yet".

As to the grey areas as I said I'm all for them I just can't seem to get them to apply. At least for the definitions that the tropes page presented you have to have some redeeming qualities. The antagonist characters are almost universally despicable and their actions betray any claims (not that they make many) that their intentions are in any way noble. Vay Hek is a politician who murders his ideological enemies for what? to amass more power. Even the scientist who was studying the effects of repeated cloning was doing it to build better faster stronger warriors. To aid in the conquering, not to heal his people. Largely the corpus characters are proxies but what few we do know of are... well real pieces of work and certainly don't do much better than the Grineer. If DE wish to set up a moral grey area (their stated stance would indicate they do not) they're going to have to do a lot better than they are. Yes the Tenno hurt and kill a lot of people but we don't really get to see larger effects of their actions and they are doing no more than any soldier in any war woould and I am not fast to condemn those.

Edited July 1, 2014 by NevanChambers

[vaugahn]

As to the grey areas as I said I'm all for them I just can't seem to get them to apply.

 

I think it's less that your enemies have redeeming qualities, and more that you have villainous qualities. And based off gradivus dilemma dialogue, I'd take Sargas Ruk over Alad V any day.

[OniDax]

It also wasn't said it was just a regular proxy either. 

Interestingly enough they made a nice point to say that the Grineer couldn't make a warframe they had ripped a fresh Tenno out of work. If the Tenno isn't needed why was that?

If it's not the Tenno and just the mods then I suppose I'll jump in and get radial disarm and Iron Skin on my Vauban. Yeah I am being a little sarcastic here but you see my point. I think your giving a little too much lore importance to a game play conceit. 

Believe what you want and all but I'm sticking to the Aladstein theories until some other lore comes up to contradict it. It just makes for a better story. 

 

 

 

DESteve said the Tenno are the good guys no smile and shrug (this may have been an earlier stance but the devstream I mention is definitely more recent and the topic hasn't been revisited) no ambiguity at all the "good guys" those exact words. Furthermore when asked the perfectly valid question of whether or not there were other non-Grineer or Corpus humans in the system his response was "of course there are who do you think your working to protect". There isn't a great deal of ambiguity their either. 

 

Well obviously Stalker got Radial Blind, Teleport, and Absorb, so obviously it's possible to rip mods from Warframes and use them. Also, while you say the Grineer can't make a Warframe, their Eximus leaders would like a word with you, because obviously they're quite fine using Frost's Snowglobe and Ember's Fire Blast, and obviously with slight modifications of their own. The only reason warframes can't use other frames' powers like the enemies can is because DE has decided not to let the player do that.

[NevanChambers]

Well obviously Stalker got Radial Blind, Teleport, and Absorb, so obviously it's possible to rip mods from Warframes and use them. Also, while you say the Grineer can't make a Warframe, their Eximus leaders would like a word with you, because obviously they're quite fine using Frost's Snowglobe and Ember's Fire Blast, and obviously with slight modifications of their own. The only reason warframes can't use other frames' powers like the enemies can is because DE has decided not to let the player do that.

That last thing you said. You maintain its a gameplay conceit when it's convienient to your argument.

There has been zero attempt at justification of eximus units through lore. I am not convinced the Grineer powers have anything to do with the Tenno.

You can throw a bullet a lot of different ways a P-90, a rail gun, an arm. Just because they all have comparable results doesn't suggest that the mechanisms to reach those ends are the same or even similar.

[DirkDeadeye]

Okay, here goes another stalker theory, based on speculation, and my relentless drive to romanticize his origin story. If I'm a little off the mark, or way off, I'll make adjustments.

 

The low Gaurd might've (Wonder if that lack of capitalization is on purpose of not) or definately were the protectors of the royalty, or leadership however it's interpreted.

 

So, perhaps when these children were sent off into the void, a few of them came along as well, in cryostasis, in the event of danger. Since they are elite soldiers. Perhaps the stalker was affected by the void. His powers seem unique, but he's also seemingly immortal, and a little omipotent, but that just may be a gameplay conceit. Maybe he was in tremendous pain, or perhaps he could not control what became of him, so he murdered several Tenno wearing frames, and built his suit from peices he chose fit. Since he is kind of a hybridized looking frame, with diffrent powers. Maybe he was savy enough to know that he posessed the capability being exposed, but his exposure resulted in something worse, more uncontrolable. He may have been disfigured. Depressed, the ones he swore to protect still had no respect for him despite paying the ultimate price. When the time arose, he rose to the occasion, and as I said before during the fight, could've been a force to be reckoned with, being that he was exposed, and his natural talent, along with the absence of a frame made him into a killing machine..and as said before, he found comfort in skinning them, donning peices to give him balance. But his balance was simply a means to gate his tennacity and strength. He still held a massive grudge. When the remaining tenno flew off into the void, he probably just honed his skills..picking off the weak, learning how to execute them. Taking traditional weaponry and adapting them to cut their frames easier. Maybe he also went into stasis..a protocal within the firmware of his suit (I'm going on a tangent now aren't I?) when Lotus called for the tenno to awake, also arose the Stalker.

 

Another version..

 

Take that theory, the gist of it. A 'low Gaurdian' who was exposed to the void because of inadequate shielding..Whom may have been disfigured, whom may have gained exceptional prowless and strength, possibly pseudo-omnipotence. Who witnessed the massacre, and the dessention escaped after fighting for his life, killed a tenno and boarded his cryopod..and went off into cryostasis. When Lotus called for the tenno to wake, or maybe he was discovered by the Corpus because he was not awoken by Louts. Maybe even before the call was made. Perhaps Anyo read his manifeso, seeing as how he wasin't a tenno, and by happenstance, or fate, spared him to become a pawn..Anyo realized he was an exception, the void exposure, and perhaps exposure to technocyte, or the lack there of made him compatable with the warframes, and used his stockpile to help craft him a frame. Since he has a clear and present motivation to side with anyone who isn't tenno. And before the call, he acted as a bounty hunter. And upon realizing the tenno were called to awake, he focused his anger towards them, and not petty squabbles between grineer VIP's or Corpus dissenters, or competition. And now insane and drunk with power he lacks the discipline to control, or lost due to void exposure, he sees himself as an equalizer.

 

Let me know how those sound? :/

[vaugahn]

Take that theory, the gist of it. A 'low Gaurdian' who was exposed to the void because of inadequate shielding..Whom may have been disfigured, whom may have gained exceptional prowless and strength, possibly pseudo-omnipotence. Who witnessed the massacre, and the dessention escaped after fighting for his life, killed a tenno and boarded his cryopod..and went off into cryostasis. When Lotus called for the tenno to wake, or maybe he was discovered by the Corpus because he was not awoken by Louts. Maybe even before the call was made. Perhaps Anyo read his manifeso, seeing as how he wasin't a tenno, and by happenstance, or fate, spared him to become a pawn..Anyo realized he was an exception, the void exposure, and perhaps exposure to technocyte, or the lack there of made him compatable with the warframes, and used his stockpile to help craft him a frame. Since he has a clear and present motivation to side with anyone who isn't tenno. And before the call, he acted as a bounty hunter. And upon realizing the tenno were called to awake, he focused his anger towards them, and not petty squabbles between grineer VIP's or Corpus dissenters, or competition. And now insane and drunk with power he lacks the discipline to control, or lost due to void exposure, he sees himself as an equalizer.

 

First off, welcome back Dirk.

 

Second, we pretty much know stalker didn't go into cryo. His lore says he walked these worlds while tenno slept. As for everything else, not bad, though I'm still not sure about the "stalker is a secret tenno" part.