Changing Warframes Lore-Wise

[NevanChambers]

You can stretch it the other way (the poly tenno theory) ignoring parts of the evidence and lore as you are doing now... because we have said many many times that the codex entry refers to the original ember, not your ember, not mine, not anyone's.

And we know that the "unique characters" theory is impossible because Exbalibur is killed in the profit trailer, so if he was a unique charater then there wouldn't be any excalibur left, also, we have clans and alliances, if there were only 19 tenno (one for each frame type) clans and alliances wouldnt even exist.

On the other hand if Ember is unique and we all play the same ember then what the hell is Ember prime? everything in the game points to frames being just suits, tools, or whatever you want to call them and tenno being only one in control of his/her collection of frames, when we acquire a new frame we get the parts and blueprint to BUILD a frame, not a tenno, if frames were characters we would "meet" them and recruit them, but we don't we build their parts, and them assemble them (the frames, not the tenno)

Off course the original ember wearer could not get into a Saryn frame and use poison, but we are not the original, we are not the prototypes, from this point it's not hard to guess that Warframe development lead to advancements that allow any tenno to wear any frame and use the abilities of the original prototypes. because after all... we build the frames, and as we build them, its right to say they are mass produced versions.

I get what your saying and it's well formulated, but I was never arguing for unique characters I was arguing for archetypeal individuals. My fault entirely I shoud have said "an ember cannot get into and use a sayrn frame" We build the frames for the Tenno we meet the meeting is just implied by the building that sort of thing. I'm aware the lore can really be used to argue either point of view and that niether encompass everything without leaving some other pieces out. I come to my conclusions by completely ignoring game mechanics as few of those seem to be solidly informed by the lore in any way. Other people don't, and ignore lore that contradicts this. They may be right and someday maybe one camp or the other will be confirmed as thinking the "right" way.

I just wish DE would get on confirming 6 or 7 things for sure. Then we could have some more interesting discussions that don't revolve around the base nature of what Tenno are.

Edited July 14, 2014 by NevanChambers

[SilentMobius]

Other people don't, and ignore lore that contradicts this.

 

This is where we disagree, as I've said before. There is no lore that contradicts the mono-teno position. There is only the implied existence of lore we do not yet know.

 

For there to be a single Tenno per player, no lore, or game mechanics need to change, we simply need to know how the humaniform Tenno fit in the various suits, a simple line like "The suits modify the wearer" would finalize everything.

 

For there to be one Tenno per Warframe per player there would need to be _significant_ 1984-esque doublethink regarding _every_ progression mechanic in the game. And significant lore expansion explaining the relationship of these close-knit Tenno groupings, involving sharing of equipment, guilt and all forms of training. Also an explanation of the construction system, how new Tenno are made, how they are given suitable abilities to fit the Warframe that are freshly constructed _and_ how the Prime/Tenno versions of Warframes ever worked, along with who pilots them.

 

Occams razor says that the explanation with the least assumptions is the most likely. So IMHO single-Tenno-per-player, is the default assumption.

[HideorEscape]

The Tenno are humans, they are like the hostages but all of them wear a special Warframe exoskeleton suit that has powers.

Look at the Cryo Pods in defense missions, those are the Tenno, imagine if they would wear the warframe suits.

 

The Tenno could also be other human species or aliens. How can Hydroid turn into a liquid puddle? X-Man? xD

[Quatrez]

In my theory, I am a Tenno. Warframe is my power exosuit from the Orokin era. Each suit has it own AI system, so that explain why some suit look like female but some are male. Warframe is just a shell for us and the Tenno connect themself with the Warframe. The Tenno are just the avatar but the real warrior behind the battle are the Warframe.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Quatrez

[NevanChambers]

This is where we disagree, as I've said before. There is no lore that contradicts the mono-teno position. There is only the implied existence of lore we do not yet know.

For there to be a single Tenno per player, no lore, or game mechanics need to change, we simply need to know how the humaniform Tenno fit in the various suits, a simple line like "The suits modify the wearer" would finalize everything.

For there to be one Tenno per Warframe per player there would need to be _significant_ 1984-esque doublethink regarding _every_ progression mechanic in the game. And significant lore expansion explaining the relationship of these close-knit Tenno groupings, involving sharing of equipment, guilt and all forms of training. Also an explanation of the construction system, how new Tenno are made, how they are given suitable abilities to fit the Warframe that are freshly constructed _and_ how the Prime/Tenno versions of Warframes ever worked, along with who pilots them.

Occams razor says that the explanation with the least assumptions is the most likely. So IMHO single-Tenno-per-player, is the default assumption.

Untrue you have to ignore or twist the fact that embers lore states the powers are not manifest from the suit but from the individuals. As many have placed embers lore chronologically before Excaliburs the explanation for how primes work (and I'm not even sure I understand why that is a question) is the same way all the others did the orokin made suits to interact with and channel each specific Tenno archetype's powers. New Tenno aren't made they are born

(Or found) it is their frames that are built for them.

I assume they are a semi hive mind represented by the player. The way the infested work and the known quantity of technocyte infection in the Tenno makes this not a far jump let alone a signifigant lore change.

You make assumption about Tenno physiology to allow them to mold their bodies to whatever shape they want. On top of that these trans-human entities maintain secondary sexual characteristics for reasons? (if you get to use game mechanics then I get to use character design) Your assumptions aren't bigger or smaller than mine just different. You choose to make your assumptions I choose to make mine doesn't mean yours is the "default" anything.

My theory encompasses EVERYTHING including the Excalibur and Ember lore in harmony.

Edited July 15, 2014 by NevanChambers

[Kestral9999]

Ooooo, a hivemind theory. Now we're getting somewhere. I can jive with that as long as nobody is trying to tell me that a single tenno can master every warframe since the powers are not imbued by the warframes to begin with.

 

Just tossing in a possible theory to support the hivemind notion.

What if, WHAT IF... the children that were sent into the void eventually died after their return, and ascended to become individual consciousnesses which could control their fellow Tenno descendants. Just a thought.

[NevanChambers]

Ooooo, a hivemind theory. Now we're getting somewhere. I can jive with that as long as nobody is trying to tell me that a single tenno can master every warframe since the powers are not imbued by the warframes to begin with.

 

Just tossing in a possible theory to support the hivemind notion.

What if, WHAT IF... the children that were sent into the void eventually died after their return, and ascended to become individual consciousnesses which could control their fellow Tenno descendants. Just a thought.

I can see that as a possibility, have entertained the thought myself. Ultimately I feel the hive mind fits better considering what we have as evidence in the lore. Not that your theory is contradicted just not really supported either. That of course could change from one lore entry though, I'm quite eager to see if DE ever gives us this base information before the game dies or I just lose interest.

[Kestral9999]

Well, DE are steadily releasing little tidbits of lore, you've just gotta keep an eye out for it. I'm sure that by the time the game stops considering itself a beta, there'll be quite a bit of lore and we will finally have an understanding of what exactly the Tenno are. Honestly, I think they're having a difficult time deciding that for themselves and that's why they've been so reluctant to release lore. They might release some info and then later on they get questioned on some mechanic that contradicts said info completely.

 

Like how Excalibur Prime just isn't even a thing on PS4 anymore. Not even in the codex or anything. So I guess that he just never existed? But he did, but he didn't... but he did. It's little stuff like that which is creating massive roadblocks for them getting anything set in stone for the canon lore of the game.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Kestral9999

[SilentMobius]

Untrue you have to ignore or twist the fact that embers lore states the powers are not manifest from the suit but from the individuals.

 

Not a problem at all, Some (Notably the first) Tenno manifested abilities That were strong enough to operate without assistance, the majority of Tenno may share a focus such as that but the Warframes channel any and all Void powers into the warframs desiignated power focus, technolofy developed in concert with these power-originators or from existing Orokin Technology.

 

If we are to believe that every Tenno must express that power uniquely we must also believe that we suddenly find a grand mass of Tenno capable of expressing a hereto unknown power set the moment we find hints of suitable Warframe parts they flock to our (single person) ships and wait calmly for the forges to finish a Warframe for them, Legions of anti-matter, oxium-flight, Water, nature based Tenno, all waiting for a Warframe to suit them.

 

No, IMHO the Ember codex tells up about a single Tenno, the first to have the Ember Warframe made for her, maybe the strongest, but hardly representative of all Tenno, let alone all wearers of Ember. I don't see how reading a story about a single Tenno and regarding it as a single Tenno (If indeed she is even considered a Tenno at this point) is twisting anything.

 

You make assumption about Tenno physiology to allow them to mold their bodies to whatever shape they want

 

I do not, I surmise that the Warframes do the work of adjusting their pilot to match their template (Much like dark sector). I imagine the Tenno are much the same as any other person, though possibly scarred from their experiences during exposure to the Void, genetically male and female. Especially given what DE have said about wanting to keep the game grounded.

 

New Tenno aren't made they are born

 

Possibly, or they may be a completely finite resource. I say create because when you suggest that the powers are based _only_ in the Tenno suddenly you have another resource limitation each time a new Warframe is discovered or created, finding a Tenno with _just_ the right powers for it.

 

As I said. You need your "hive mind" and rewriting of mechanics and lore. I need "the Warframe does it".

 

Let us see what the Liset brings us.

Edited July 15, 2014 by SilentMobius

[ArgonTheFox]

I think the whole idea of "changing warframe" needs to be taken with a small pinch of salt. I like to think that the game is on a bit of a broken timeline, and the warframe you are currently playing, is your warframe, and you've always been that frame, and always will be that frame. On a literal scale, I don't think changing warframe would be possible for a Tenno.

 

The tenno obtained their powers after exposure to the void, and then the Warframes were built around them as a way to focus those powers, each warframe presumably being tailored to channel a particular power's energy, therefore, if I am a Tenno who gained the power to control moisture in the air, to produce ice, I would have had the Frost warframe built around me, not any other warframe, and would be unable to change, because there is no other frame besides the Frost that can control those abilities.

 

To put it bluntly, I think changing warframe is just a game mechanic and nothing more, I don't think it exists in lore, just my take on it though.

Edited July 15, 2014 by ArgonTheFox

[(PSN)FIytrap]

I think Shienpoh's explanation hit the nail on the head.

Edited July 15, 2014 by (PS4)FIytrap

[ElHefe]

First, I need a bit of clarification ...

 

1. Does "Tenno" refer to those who survived the Technocyte or also those who survived exposure to the Void?

Aside:  Would the term "Tenno" apply to an individual BEFORE exposure to Technocyte - i.e. someone who has the POTENTIAL to successfully adapt to the Technocyte?

 

2. Does "Warframe" refer only to the exosuit or does it include the OCCUPIED armor?

 

Second, the Warframe Wiki mentions:

1. Both the Grineer and the Corpus are involved with "reverse engineering" Orokin technology

2. That some of the components used in the Foundry for "new" exosuit construction are of Grineer (Neurodes, Alloy) and Corpus (Control Modules) make

3. The "vanilla" exosuit designs (blueprints) used in the Foundry were adapted/modified/reverse engineered? by the Tenno from the original Okokin designs (which are the PRIME frames)

 

So some questions:

1. If the Tenno modified the Orokin exosuit design AFTER the fall of the Orokin, how much different is the "new" design from their "old" one

IMPLICATION:  a cyrostasis warframe would NOT be EXACTLY like Foundry made one SO wouldn't their PERFORMANCE be different?

 

2. Does the use of materials MADE BY their enemies make the "new" Tenno (us - the players), somehow VUNERABLE to "backdoor hacks"?

IMPLICATION:  the Grineer focus on biological research and the warframes have biological neural systems implanted in them and the Corpus focus on physical sciences research (although Alad V had broken ranks with his Breeding Grounds project) SO what would be the implications of a collaboration between the Grineer and Corpus (aside from numbers)?

[ElHefe]

@ Orbister ... in your 11 Jul post you made the interesting statement that warframes were MASS PRODUCED

 

Now aside from the untold numbers of warframes that now "exist" through the cumulative activity of actual PLAYERS engaged in the game, what other support is there for that supposition?

 

The existence of a "blueprint" is insufficient ... example:  The Wright brothers had a blueprint for the Kitty Hawk but it was not made in "mass" numbers

 

We don't know how many Tenno existed at the time of the Orokin, how many survived the Sentient War(s?) or survived the Orokin pogrom

 

We don't know how many Tenno were NEEDED to defeat the Sentients or for that matter how many Sentients there were ...

Implication:  Do you need a MASSIVE army of superpowerful soldiers to defeat an opposing force of TWO?

Two being the smallest plural ...

 

Given the "rarity" of PrimeFrames, I get the impression that:

1. There weren't many of them to begin with ... that the Void exposure probably killed many, many more than survived

2. Therefore each PrimeFrame was so unique that it was practically HAND-CRAFTED

 

 

[SilentMobius]

First, I need a bit of clarification ...

 

1. Does "Tenno" refer to those who survived the Technocyte or also those who survived exposure to the Void?

Aside:  Would the term "Tenno" apply to an individual BEFORE exposure to Technocyte - i.e. someone who has the POTENTIAL to successfully adapt to the Technocyte?

 

2. Does "Warframe" refer only to the exosuit or does it include the OCCUPIED armor?

 

 

IMHO Tenno has nothing to do with the Technocyte virus. But whatever it is, it's applied to the being inside the armour.

A Warframe is just the armour.

Edited July 15, 2014 by SilentMobius

[ElHefe]

@ SilentMobius ...

 

In other posts, you assert that "Tenno" refers to the Dark Sector character, Hayden Tenno, so are the "Tenno" in Warframe descendants or those naturally endowed with a "resistance" to the Technocyte virus?

[SilentMobius]

@ SilentMobius ...

 

In other posts, you assert that "Tenno" refers to the Dark Sector character, Hayden Tenno, so are the "Tenno" in Warframe descendants or those naturally endowed with a "resistance" to the Technocyte virus?

 

Did I? I doubt out Tenno have any connection to Hayden Tenno save perhaps via the memory of the Orokin. Though we have little information on the subject and I'm currently doubtful that the Tenno themselves have any form of technocyte infection. I don't think DE would double up with two different ways of making the Tenno the "Twisted few", I think that is 100% the Void's doing and the void powres are _replace_ the technocyte virus in the story of our Tenno vs Hayden Tenno.

 

The Devs did say that Hayden was "The OG" AKA the first "Tenno" but given he existed thousands of years before the sentients war.. the connection only exists in dev word-of-god currently.

Edited July 18, 2014 by SilentMobius

[Keltik0ne]

*psssst*

 

 

Tenno are like flashdrives, we upload into the lobotomised remains of ancient warriors before we go on our murderous rampages.

 

Or, a wizard did it.

[SilentMobius]

<farnsworth>Good news everyone</farnsworth>

 

So U14, looks like Vor has a gadget that lets him get into our skull. and boy does he have something to say on the subject:

 

We've been wrong all this time. Tenno do not control the Warframe's divine energy. The Tenno are that energy. Each Warframe you control is merely a glass shaping your furious light

 

You can argue plural vs singular on Tenno but either way that pretty much confirms that it's the Warframe that shapes the effects and the Tenno that provides the Void power.

 

I'd argue that it strongly suggests single-Tenno-multiple-Warframes as well but as I said you could argue the plural use of Tenno here, but I think it's poorly composed if it's intended to be taken as plural-tenno single-Warframe-per-Tenno.

 

At least we can strike out the "Tenno have one type of power and get locked into a specific Warframe because of it" thing regardless.

[SilentMobius]

<please ignore>

Edited July 18, 2014 by SilentMobius

[Vilemyre]

So, there was a guess that Tenno are actually infested, but in a more stabilized state (Hayden).

 

And from time to time, there pops out a question:

 

,,What about changing Warframes? How does it fit lore-wise?"

 

There is a quite simple answer:

 

You imagine that you're always one of them (for eternity).

 

 

But I have an idea.

 

You know what Technocyte causes, right? Zits (tumors), Hives, Infested.

 

What if you change Warframes by morphing your body?

 

Maybe you can become a mass of flesh and then morph into another Warframe?

 

What do you think? Ideas?

 

Vor pretty much confirmed we are nothing more than a form of energy that manifests into a frame. Like spirits really.

[Cinderain]

To put it bluntly, I think changing warframe is just a game mechanic and nothing more, I don't think it exists in lore, just my take on it though.

 

This.

 

I saw someone say it a long time ago about video games in general, but I can't remember word for word... Which is unfortunate, because it was said really well. Basically... Gameplay doesn't always = lore/story.

 

You're playing through a game and you get shot and stabbed 50 million times. You get to a cutscene and you get shot or stabbed once and you're incapacitated and dying. That's just vidya gaems being vidya gaems.

[SilentMobius]

Vor pretty much confirmed we are nothing more than a form of energy that manifests into a frame. Like spirits really.

 

Form what I've seen so far (Quoted above) that could mean then energy comes from the Tenno while still being rooted in a physical form. It doesn't directly imply non-corporality.

 

E.G: I am currently "Tired" but that doesn't describe 100% of my physical form, I am also still an organic human. "The Tenno are that energy" could be orthogonal to being physical organic beings under their Warframes.

[SilentMobius]

This.

 

I saw someone say it a long time ago about video games in general, but I can't remember word for word... Which is unfortunate, because it was said really well. Basically... Gameplay doesn't always = lore/story.

 

You're playing through a game and you get shot and stabbed 50 million times. You get to a cutscene and you get shot or stabbed once and you're incapacitated and dying. That's just vidya gaems being vidya gaems.

 

And yet all _other_ "vidya games" have separate story tracks for each in-world "character", In Warframe our tutorial progression, mission progression, boss-death-guilt, has only _one_ track. Suggesting that if Warframe is indeed "vidya gaems being vidya gaems" then we are representing a single POV, a single character.

 

Story progression isn't a "mechanic" its the story, it is the definition of "in-game" and Warframes progression is single-character.

Edited July 18, 2014 by SilentMobius

[Nick-ka-ka]

What if you change Warframes by morphing your body?

Maybe you can become a mass of flesh and then morph into another Warframe?

 -nervous eye twitch-

 

I don't think that is a visually appealing idea, in any sense. The first 'Tenno' was human, clad in a metal skin. Let's keep it that way and just say that you are simply selecting a different human character clad in metal skin. Much more simple and clean.

 

Also, since when have the Infested had the ability to morph into something else? I have yet to see a crawler gain wings and become a Mutalist-Osprey.

[Headofgod]

Reading this at work for entertainment value got me thinking.  Keep in mind this is all UPG so bear with me.  We control one Tenno, my reading tends to support this although from sources that are hearsay, so how do we change genders.  My thoughts on that are simple, when the finite amount of people were exposed to the void, a limited spectrum of powers were exhibited.  The suits were made to fit those powers.  Unfortunately the prototypes for the suits were made for the ones that made it back first and the technology to restructure those suits was lost for any of a slew of reasons.  While replication of the suits was/is possible, the actual restructuring of those suits is too difficult/tech lost/not feasible to occur.  Tenno society then incorporated this into gender identification via suit rather than the pilot.  Tenno self identification of gender is a completely different and private thing and possibly moot.

 

/throws in the 2 cents.